Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Perrie Juran wrote: Pie Serendipity wrote: 1whowaits wrote: I am glad you mentioned some of the more well known uses of coconut oil. Indeed unreliable, unsubstantiated and unrepeatable research has suggested it may or - more likely - may not be an effective treatment for all the purposes you mentioned and many more too. FIFY! Oh, and the word "prescribed" does not have to be used solely in a formal fashion; you could be prescribed a regime of abstaining from promoting quack remedies, and that would not have any legal ramifications. Wouldn't the word then be "proscribed?" In a wholly different context, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1whowaits Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hmm I wouldnt call that a fix given that your "fixed" statement is demonstrably false. If you did a quick search on Pub Med for coconut oil and MCTs derived from it you would find over 10000 peer reviewed studies, most of which are reliable, and all of which are substantiated and repeatable. While it is true that most of these studies are not human studies due to lack of funding (thank you FDA), there is more than enough in vitro, animal and population studies in addition to several good clinical studies done on coconut oil and MCTs to show its effectiveness in treating or at least preventing a large number of diseases. There is more than enough research on it to make me comfortable in recommending it to someone with a disease that it has shown promise in treating like Alzheimer's or Epilepsy. Just as important as its effectiveness is its safety profile, as it hasnt caused a single death. Compare that to 106,000 deaths per year due to prescription drugs. Then do a comparison of effectiveness between coconut oil or MCTs from it and a popular drug like Aricept for Alzheimer's and you find MCTs much more effective than Aricept. So you can see why I am choosing recommending coconut oil to people with diseases that may benefit from it instead of telling them to take a drug that not only wont help them but may harm them. Ultimately I'm not telling anyone to believe in miracles; I'm just giving them dietary advice based on known facts that they can read with their own eyes if they dont believe me. Is that really such a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I am very weary of people streaming music and playing off like they are the artist.. IE all the "Brad Paisley, Dixie Chicks, Pat Benatar, AC/DC, ZZ Top, Aerosmith, Shaia Twain LIVE AT OUR CLUB!!!" crap. Get real, you are noting more than a music streamer. You aren't even a DJ. I would believe that if any of these artists found out they would be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: I am very weary of people streaming music and playing off like they are the artist.. IE all the "Brad Paisley, Dixie Chicks, Pat Benatar, AC/DC, ZZ Top, Aerosmith, Shaia Twain LIVE AT OUR CLUB!!!" crap. Get real, you are noting more than a music streamer. You aren't even a DJ. I would believe that if any of these artists found out they would be pissed. If you need someone to help you get through the emotional distress that this seems to cause you, I might know a place you can go. :matte-motes-wink-tongue: ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 1whowaits wrote: Hmm I wouldnt call that a fix given that your "fixed" statement is demonstrably false. If you did a quick search on Pub Med for coconut oil and MCTs derived from it you would find over 10000 peer reviewed studies, most of which are reliable, and all of which are substantiated and repeatable. While it is true that most of these studies are not human studies due to lack of funding (thank you FDA), there is more than enough in vitro, animal and population studies in addition to several good clinical studies done on coconut oil and MCTs to show its effectiveness in treating or at least preventing a large number of diseases. There is more than enough research on it to make me comfortable in recommending it to someone with a disease that it has shown promise in treating like Alzheimer's or Epilepsy. Just as important as its effectiveness is its safety profile, as it hasnt caused a single death. Compare that to 106,000 deaths per year due to prescription drugs. Then do a comparison of effectiveness between coconut oil or MCTs from it and a popular drug like Aricept for Alzheimer's and you find MCTs much more effective than Aricept. So you can see why I am choosing recommending coconut oil to people with diseases that may benefit from it instead of telling them to take a drug that not only wont help them but may harm them. Ultimately I'm not telling anyone to believe in miracles; I'm just giving them dietary advice based on known facts that they can read with their own eyes if they dont believe me. Is that really such a bad thing? If coconut oil was an effective treatment the FDA - and its equivalents in other countries - would be more than happy to recommend it. They don't. Your "facts" are like Irish facts, which are similar to the truth, but more interesting. Zero against 106,000 deaths a year? By the same token you'd better start promoting the use of unicycles, because they have also caused no deaths, in comparison with motorised vehicles. This is quackery obfuscated by marketing claptrap. Perhaps I should mention that I have a friend whose not inconsiderable bank balance was reduced to naught by similar specious promises made by millionaire quack-frauds who promoted coffee enemas as a cure for skin cancer - on the basis of a couple of unexplained observations of spontaneous remission by owners of Starbucks cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 It sounds like this scam has potential. SL is full of individuals who, for one reason or another, or another, or another . . . are not able to cope with real life, and promoting an anonymous "we will listen to you" service sounds like an excellent way to bring those desperate people to you, so you can exploit their weaknesses for your own gain. Maybe I should promote a "Hugs for rich widows" business and get rich quick too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 xsunmoonstarsx wrote: Gone to the link inworld. LOL can't blv how ppl can be so jaded here, its a volunteer work like charity. Its not like lindens are involved in here. Relax, thryre just trying to help. Anyway, I like your group's cause so count me in Alt sockpuppet, much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 wisdomadvocate wrote: "Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" is the group's motto. More like, "bait the hook, then reel them in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephina Frostbite Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Pie Serendipity wrote: It sounds like this scam has potential. SL is full of individuals who, for one reason or another, or another, or another . . . are not able to cope with real life, and promoting an anonymous "we will listen to you" service sounds like an excellent way to bring those desperate people to you, so you can exploit their weaknesses for your own gain. Maybe I should promote a "Hugs for rich widows" business and get rich quick too. I understand where you are coming from however how does offering free help scam people? I would understand if they were asking for something in return but they are not. I am just trying to understand your way thinking. EDIT Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdomadvocate Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 For a moment there, I really thought you had an intelligent exhange going then you resorted to make things a little personal which made me think...why is this person so agitated about a cause to try to help others? Since when is doing good deeds without expecting anything out of anyone something to be crucified for? I am thankful I am one of those people who has faith in others and immature remarks based on unfair judgement, well, more like accusations doesn't go anywhere with me. It's amusing how one can be so quick to make assumptions when they don't even have the facts to back it up. We don't do 'services' as you put it. We are a support group. Don't make it complicated than it should be, because our aim is to be a listening ear, not con-artists. We don't have donation boxes anywhere nor have we asked money from anyone. I suppose, where you come from, genuine people are hard to find. So, I do know where this is coming from and I'm glad these kind of remarks are brought up so we can clarify it. I just hope the decency as a human is there. To ask if you need clarity, not attack the first red dot you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Sephina Frostbite wrote: Pie Serendipity wrote: It sounds like this scam has potential. SL is full of individuals who, for one reason or another, or another, or another . . . are not able to cope with real life, and promoting an anonymous "we will listen to you" service sounds like an excellent way to bring those desperate people to you, so you can exploit their weaknesses for your own gain. Maybe I should promote a "Hugs for rich widows" business and get rich quick too. I understand where you are coming from however how does offering free help scam people? I would understand if they were asking for something in return but they are not. I am just trying to understand your way thinking. EDIT Spelling Yeah, you're probably right. By the way, you wouldn't want to buy a bridge, would you? It's getting on a bit now, but it's in a very desirable location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 wisdomadvocate wrote: For a moment there, I really thought you had an intelligent exhange going then you resorted to make things a little personal which made me think...why is this person so agitated about a cause to try to help others? Since when is doing good deeds without expecting anything out of anyone something to be crucified for? I am thankful I am one of those people who has faith in others and immature remarks based on unfair judgement, well, more like accusations doesn't go anywhere with me. It's amusing how one can be so quick to make assumptions when they don't even have the facts to back it up. We don't do 'services' as you put it. We are a support group. Don't make it complicated than it should be, because our aim is to be a listening ear, not con-artists. We don't have donation boxes anywhere nor have we asked money from anyone. I suppose, where you come from, genuine people are hard to find. So, I do know where this is coming from and I'm glad these kind of remarks are brought up so we can clarify it. I just hope the decency as a human is there. To ask if you need clarity, not attack the first red dot you see. Yep, that's just the way a con man would respond; an appeal to ingenuous readers while declaiming "We would never do anything like that". Next up is the even more helpful: "Sure I have a pen if you want to sign a cheque for a gift for us because we have been so kind to you". Did I also mention I had a friend who was seduced by the Moonies in just this fashion? Not everyone here is that naive. Well, OK, most are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imAlexiaAndiRock Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Don't feed the troll, Ellie. Just sit back and watch how he/she/it ridicules himself/herself/it. It's kinda funny, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 imAlexiaAndiRock wrote: Don't feed the troll, Ellie. Just sit back and watch how he/she/it ridicules himself/herself/it. It's kinda funny, actually. "And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose" (Acts 9:18) Or as Jimmy Nail put it: "She's lying" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdomadvocate Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Oh, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imAlexiaAndiRock Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Maybe we can even have this as a topic for our next group discussion. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 imAlexiaAndiRock wrote: Maybe we can even have this as a topic for our next group discussion. LOL. Right surname, wrong subject. Or was it this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdomadvocate Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Pmsl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 wisdomadvocate wrote: Pms!! FIFY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephina Frostbite Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I just want to say, I love your positive attitude and the way you handle things in spite of all the el toro caca. I hope to be as cool as you are under pressure some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephina Frostbite Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Just was asking an honest question. If you'd rather be snarky that's fine. Hope you can work through whatever it is that keeps making you feel so edgy. No I didn't mean that in a mean way. I honestly wish you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1whowaits Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pie Serendipity wrote: SL is full of individuals who, for one reason or another, or another, or another . . . are not able to cope with real life, and promoting an anonymous "we will listen to you" service sounds like an excellent way to bring those desperate people to you, so you can exploit their weaknesses for your own gain. Maybe I should promote a "Hugs for rich widows" business and get rich quick too. So based on your complete skepticism of any potential benefits from any self-help group in SL, do you also believe RL support and self-help groups are a complete waste of time? Since you mention anonymous with the implication that it is a bad thing, are you also against RL anonymous support groups like AA, EA, NA, etc.? Also what exactly would we gain from offering support to people in SL? A short lived ego boost at best? We arent asking anyone for money or anything else so do you have any proof of your belief that we are exploiting others for our own gain? I'm honestly not sure if you believe anything you are saying or if you really spend time criticizing others in SL as a hobby. If the former is true then yes you are beyond the help of our group and should seek help from a professional. If the latter is true of course we would welcome you in our group if you would like to share whatever it is that is causing you to feel so pessimistic and critical of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1whowaits Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pie Serendipity wrote: If coconut oil was an effective treatment the FDA - and its equivalents in other countries - would be more than happy to recommend it. They don't. You cant honestly believe this can you? I would find this statement quite funny if it wasnt so unfortunate for Americans. There is virtually no money to be made from researching the safety or effectiveness of coconut oil, so of course the FDA won't recommend it. Actually the FDA doesnt recommend any natural treatments or prophylactics for disease, they only tell Americans which foods and supplements to avoid if one of them makes false claims or produces adverse events. Fortunately millions of people in tropical countries can experience the health benefits of coconut oil without futilely hoping the FDA or their own regulatory agency will bless their centuries old use of coconut oil as a treatment or prophylactic for many different health conditions, and they are almost completely free of all Western diseases as a result. I will take the experience based wisdom of people in countries like the Philippines over the severely limited scientific knowledge of the FDA any day. For example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21669587 "Coconut oil is associated with a beneficial lipid profile in pre-menopausal women in the Philippines." Your analogy of coconut oil and MCTs vs prescribed drugs to a unicycle vs. cars in terms of its effectiveness has no basis in fact and is a straw man argument, because as I cited in my previous reply, MCTs from coconut oil have been proven to be more effective than the leading Alzheimer's drug Aricept, and that is just one example of a disease coconut oil/MCTs is more effective than a drug in treating or preventing. So the issue is not just safety but effectiveness. Furthermore, given that most drugs are no more effective than a placebo (i.e. not effective at all), I will always choose a food extract or dietary supplement over a drug, because if effectiveness is equal (i.e. no effectiveness), food extracts or dietary supplements have the advantage over drugs in terms of safety in most cases, and definitely in the case of coconut oil. The Hippocratic Oath says "First, do no harm." If only the FDA had to abide by that oath. Well, one day hopefully. One thing we can agree on is that there are a lot of natural health scam products on the market, especially when it comes to weight loss and skin care, but coconut oil/MCTs arent one of them. Also you wont lose a fortune buying coconut oil unless you eat it by the gallonful daily lol. If there was any potential for harm from a natural dietary supplement such as in your friend's case I would understand your caution, but can you provide me with one example of evidence showing coconut oil has harmed anyone in the history of humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 1whowaits wrote: Pie Serendipity wrote: SL is full of individuals who, for one reason or another, or another, or another . . . are not able to cope with real life, and promoting an anonymous "we will listen to you" service sounds like an excellent way to bring those desperate people to you, so you can exploit their weaknesses for your own gain. Maybe I should promote a "Hugs for rich widows" business and get rich quick too. So based on your complete skepticism of any potential benefits from any self-help group in SL, do you also believe RL support and self-help groups are a complete waste of time? Since you mention anonymous with the implication that it is a bad thing, are you also against RL anonymous support groups like AA, EA, NA, etc.? Also what exactly would we gain from offering support to people in SL? A short lived ego boost at best? We arent asking anyone for money or anything else so do you have any proof of your belief that we are exploiting others for our own gain? I'm honestly not sure if you believe anything you are saying or if you really spend time criticizing others in SL as a hobby. If the former is true then yes you are beyond the help of our group and should seek help from a professional. If the latter is true of course we would welcome you in our group if you would like to share whatever it is that is causing you to feel so pessimistic and critical of others I'm getting the feeling that you just don't have the ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. You simply can't compare what you're attempting to do with real world support groups. Even the "anonymous" members of AA, NA and groups such as that, are not truly anonymous to other members of those groups. They couldn't do what they do if they were to have to remain that way. I would think that knowing someone's true identity is crucial to the building of trust which is needed in that sort of environment. Not only is that type of trust difficult to establish in a make-believe world such as SL, some would say that having that much trust in someone you really know nothing about would be quite foolish. I have no problem if you want to roleplay group therapy all you want, but trying to pass it off as an actual substitute for the real thing is just plain unscrupulous and has the potential to cause a lot of harm to people that most certainly don't need to deal with any more than they already have. ...Dres P.S. And you have the nerve to tell someone that they need professional help... pfft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Serendipity Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 1whowaits wrote: I will always choose a food extract or dietary supplement over a drug, So you are one of those homeopathic enthusiasts, eh? Or do you just sell the stuff? 1whowaits wrote: I will take the experience based wisdom of people in countries like the Philippines over the severely limited scientific knowledge of the FDA any day. For example:http://best-hoaxes.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/psychic-surgery-in-philippines-miracle.html FIFY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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