Investing in a desktop that is SL

[Kamillah Lomes]

Hey, I am browsing HP desktops because the DELL laptop is for the birds now..I am looking for a desktop that is great for running SL ( on ultra at times). I do plan on creating meshes and all that good stuff too so I was wondering if this Desktop could handle it? Feedback and recommendations are appreciated.

Brand:HP

Windows 7 Home Premium 64

Processor: 3rd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K quad-core processor [3.5GHz, 8MB Shared Cache]

2GB Nvidia GeForce GT630 [DVI, HDMI and VGA via adapter]

8 GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [2DIMMS

Hard drive: 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive

Wireless-N LAN card (1x1)

460W Power supply

[Theresa Tennyson]

I wouldn't say that would be "great." I've got an older machine with a GT 640 which is nice enough for everyday use but it's not a machine for running ultra. If you're paying extra for the i7, I'd advise taking that money and investing it in the video card instead. Also make sure you have the option of connecting to the internet by wire as well as wirelessly.

[Rhys Goode]

I don't know enough to tell you if your specs will work well or not (I suspect they will), but I can tell you about my ASUS G74S.  I am quite pleased with it, and it will 20-30 fps in Ultra using the LL viewer, maybe 12-18 using Firestorm.  I got it nearly 2 years ago to replace my "Dell from Hell".

CPU: Intel® Core i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz (2195.09 MHz)
Memory: 16362 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 560M/PCIe/SSE2

 

[Innula Zenovka]

You probably know this (though I didn't until someone explained it to me), but Nvidia numbers are a bit confusing.   

Essentially, GPUs with 3 digits are newer ones than those with 4 digits, and, with the three digit models, the first number tells you how old it is, while the second two (normally in the range 10 or 20 to 80) tell you what sort of spec it is.

So Rhys' 560 was released in 2011, and is a higher spec card than Theresa's, which was released in 2012, and that's a better, though older, card than the one you mention. 

See this article in wikipedia for more details. 

I think a n40 is probably the lowest spec Nvidia GPU I would buy for SL.   I'm on a borrowed machine with a 550 card at the moment, and that works fine on the recommended setting (mid-way between high and ultra) for everyday use unless I'm somewhere really crowded.

I can't actually imagine many circumstances, other than photography and machinima, in which I would want to run things on ultra for any length of time, and even then I probably wouldn't want to max out the draw distance to 256 (which is the real performance killer, or one of them).

[Kamillah Lomes]

Hmm.. sorry Im not very computer savvy especially when it comes down to Desktops, but what about a i5 processor instead of a i7. Is there a big difference performance-wise or not really? I saw cheaper desktops with a i5 processor so if I can save money then..:matte-motes-big-grin:

[Kamillah Lomes]

Woah got a lil confused for a min but after re-reading I got it. So.. what your saying is GPUs with a higher digit ( like 4 digits) aren't necessarily better?

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Yeah.   If it's an nVidia card called GeForce or GeForce FX plus 4 digits, then it was released between 2003 (5nnn) and 2008 (9nnn).   

After that, they changed the numbering, so the cards just have 3 digits.   If it's 1nn it was released in  2009 and  if it's 7nn it was released this year.  

So you get the year from the first digit, and then ignore that.  Look at the remaining digits to see where the particular GPU falls in the range.    

[Qie Niangao]

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Kamillah Lomes wrote:

Hmm.. sorry Im not very computer savvy especially when it comes down to Desktops, but what about a i5 processor instead of a i7. Is there a big difference performance-wise or not really? I saw cheaper desktops with a i5 processor so if I can save money then..:matte-motes-big-grin:

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Right. In fact, you're spending extra for a particular model of i7 (designated with a "K" in the product name) that's really intended for overclocking. Heaven only knows why HP thought it belonged in a stock desktop.

So yeah, as already suggested, try to find a configuration that spends more on the graphics card and less on the CPU. The problem will be that you'll likely need a larger power supply, too, for the better graphics card, although with each new generation of nVidia card (that first digit), they get a little less power hungry (and quieter, and cooler) for the same performance.

[Orca Flotta]

Brand:HP

HP is just one of many brands. And the main difference between all of them is how pretty the box is. Internal parts are bought from Taiwan or proper China by all brands. HP, Dell, Toshi or DIY makes no difference.

 

Windows 7 Home Premium 64

You surely  have a Win 7 DVD laying around at home so that's money wasted if you buy a brand product. And let me guess, your nice HP comes with a lot of bloatware on top, right? MS Office test software, some commercial antivirus crap as well. First thing you wanna do after unpacking your computer is tossing all that crappy stuff in  the bin.

 

Processor: 3rd Generation Intel® Core i7-3770K quad-core processor [3.5GHz, 8MB Shared Cache]

Ooooh shiny and new, something to brag about. Even comes with that fancy K moniker. Looks nice in marketing brochure but is total overkill.

 

2GB Nvidia GeForce GT630 [DVI, HDMI and VGA via adapter]

Ooooh and Aaaah  again. A Nvidia GeForce! Haven't we heard somewhere they are so cool for gaming? Yes and no.  The devil is in the details, like always, as it's a GT card ... and you wanna have a GTX! GTX starts at x60 or x50 models nowadays. So your x30 GT is positioned rather low in the food chain. Not a recommended buy for your powerhouse computer.

 

8 GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [2DIMMS

8 GB is sufficient for SL, so are 1333 MHz. Fairly standard these days.

 

Hard drive: 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive

Same here. 1 TB spinning on 7200 rpm is not a standout feature. Not anymore.

 

Wireless-N LAN card (1x1)

Of course it has a wireless card, don't they all? Why anyone wants to use a stationary desktop machine on wireless is beyond my grasp tho. Might be personal housing situation (Router in the kitchen, PC is the study room) but generally plugging in is the preferred method when connecting to SL. Less packet loss and bandwith peaks. For that reason, and because the telephone socket and modem/router is positioned right next to my desk, I saved some money by not having a LAN card in my machine. Another 10 or 20 bucks saved, which I could put into my GPU instead.

 

460W Power supply

Aha! That's why all the big brands can sell their stuff so cheaply. Just plonk some no-name power brick in the box, stupid consumers will never know. 460 W is rather weak these days, particularly if you intend to run a better graphics card.

And what about the motherboard? Did they mention that anywhere? No, of course not since it's in all likelihood some cheapo homemade product or something HP grabbed for cheap off the world market.

What about cooling? Has that HP box enough ventilation for when you need max performance in crowded clubs or texture laden sims? Are the fans any good?

Is the HP easy to maintain or complicated to swap out parts and upgrade? Is the case metal or plastic? Is it easy to open up for cleaning? All those factors should be taken into consideration for when you plan on using it for a long time.

For example my computer was made by a small shop in my hometown. It cost me 1000 € back in 2010 (without keyboard and monitor and without any OS) and was never anything awesome or to bragg about. It's as barebone as they come. But the shop guy used carefully selected parts, from giant oversized and somewhat fugly case to motherboard. He told me where I should spend some extra bucks and where I can save some ... and as a result I have it running nearly 24/7 since 2010. And it didn't miss a beat. A real warrior, just without a brand logo on it. I bought it with the purpose to stick with me for at least 10 more years. By then I'll have swapped out all the parts and replaced them with better, more modern stuff but I can do that slowly and won't have a need to buy a completely new computer every 2 or 3 years. For example I could drive to the local mall, get a better GPU, come back, put it in the case and be back online in about half an hour. Beacuse it will fit and be comparable with the rest of my hardware. I recently went from Windows to Linux as my OS - no problems at all.  Everything was running right outta the box. Can you do that with your HP?

 

Your other questions: Yes, a i5 is completely sufficient, even for SL. You only need the sheer power of an i7 for professional tasks, like movie, photo or music production or for compiling huge chunks of sofware. You know, those jobs that  keep your 'puter busy for several hours or days.

And, yes again, a 4 digit number isn't better, just older. So you won't get any 7xxx, 8xxxx or 9xxxx Nvidia cards anymore. Not when you buy new from a shop. If you're lucky you might still find some machines on 5xx cards. But as you've seen even your graphically underpowered HP is already on generation 6xx. 

 

My advice: don't ever buy brand products! Check out Newegg.com or similar sites (depending on your country of residence) and look for the same specs there ... and you'll notice right away you can get much better stuff for less money.

I'd roughly look for a beefy i5 paired with at least a GTX x60. PSU at least 600 W and a no-nonsense mobo from Gigabyte. That might be somewhat more expensive than Asus or MSI stuff, and maybe not even look as fancy, but you wanna go for quality instead of shiny.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

For example my computer was made by a small shop in my hometown. It cost me 1000 € back in 2010 (without keyboard and monitor and without any OS) and was never anything awesome or to bragg about. It's as barebone as they come. But the shop guy used carefully selected parts, from giant oversized and somewhat fugly case to motherboard. He told me where I should spend some extra bucks and where I can save some ... and as a result I have it running nearly 24/7 since 2010. And it didn't miss a beat. A real warrior, just without a brand logo on it. I bought it with the purpose to stick with me for at least 10 more years. By then I'll have swapped out all the parts and replaced them with better, more modern stuff but I can do that slowly and won't have a need to buy a completely new computer every 2 or 3 years. For example I could drive to the local mall, get a better GPU, come back, put it in the case and be back online in about half an hour. Beacuse it will fit and be comparable with the rest of my hardware. I recently went from Windows to Linux as my OS - no problems at all.  Everything was running right outta the box. Can you do that with your HP?

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That's how I've bought my computers for the last 20 years.   I go to a small shop, tell them what I want to do with the computer and roughly what the budget is, and ask for their recommendations.   I always end up with a far higher spec than I'd get for more money if I bought a brand name.

The same guys have been making an maintaining my PCs for the last 13 years, and they've certainly developed an expertise in SL by now.    They've built me two PCs with SL in mind and they start with the GPU, and how much I can afford to spend on that, and then build the rest around it, as it were, bearing in mind that I will want to be able to expand and upgrade as and when I need to update stuff.

[Azeral Adamczyk]

Bought this AMD A6 3620 Quad Core HP Desktop in 2012, and Night and Day better than my old system that was custom built (This is an HP P6-2133W Desktop)  Still have room to upgrade later, Power supply if need to change later is easy enough, this fit my budget greatly, and runs SL like a dream, and Windows 8 Pro 64bit with media center

 

Video is Radeon 6530D

(No problems, no lag (unless internet issues),  runs perfectly..

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

As it happens, Niran and some other TPV devs (and other interested parties) are chatting about this over in SLU at the moment -- some interesting charts comparing performance on different cards: http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/alternative-sl-clients/85705-new-process-third-party-viewers-3.html

[Suspiria Finucane]

To add to the good advice you've already received here, not all NVidia cards are created equally. Different manufacturers build the cards so which "brand" you choose means the difference between a good card and a great card. Personally, I like Gigabyte and XFX. If one is cheaper than another of a like card, there is a reason for it and it is not cuz they want less money.

[Kamillah Lomes]

Thanks for the advice I will def check out Newegg! I think I'll stick to building my desktop

[TishaRogue]

All the info sounds plenty enough to run sl. Keep in mind the more juiced up things are in the video and graphics cards the hotter it runs. I've heard a lot of horror stories of people getting their computer filled with tons of stuff and then it melts. Make sure the computer has lots of fan power in it. 

Also as convenient as wireless is sometimes the bandwidth isn't the most stable. Make sure it has the option for wired as well so you have the choice if its needed. They usually do but check it anyway.