Question about copyright (Shoes)??

[Drake1 Nightfire]

it's really a moot point as LL has said not to do it.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Nefertiti Nefarious wrote:

 

These are pixels on flat screens ... and as such can't infringe on RL things made of leather even if they were copyrighted (which clothing design can't be).

Unbless, of course, a shoe maker decides to enter SL as a vendor.

 

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There is just one holder of the design right of an object, or the creator, or the person or compagny to whom the creator sold this right. So in your reasoning the current seller of Louboutin shoes in SL holds the copyrights for these items. Unless Louboutin or one of his employees enters SL, and start to sell Louboutin shoes. Then Louboutin becomes the owner of the copyrights of Louboutin replicas.

 

How is that arranged by law that Louboutin, who was according to you not the copyright holder of the replicas, now suddenly becomes the copyright holder? 

[Theresa Tennyson]

Second Life functions under United States law and fashion design is NOT legally protected under law in the U.S. - the only industrial design element that IS protected would be boat hulls, interestingly enough. There was an attempt to pass a law to legally protect fashion design (but for no more than three years) but it failed.

This is different from actual design PATENTS, which require a long process to acquire and be  and for TRADEMARKS (like product names and logos) which are both protected.

http://popbetty.com/2007/04/all_about_hr_50.html

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Second Life functions under United States law and fashion design is NOT legally protected under law in the U.S. - the only industrial design element that IS protected would be boat hulls, interestingly enough. There was an attempt to pass a law to legally protect fashion design (but for no more than three years) but it failed.

This is different from actual design PATENTS, which require a long process to acquire and be  and for TRADEMARKS (like product names and logos) which are both protected.

http://popbetty.com/2007/04/all_about_hr_50.html

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i will post again from the listing guidelines which we all areed to when we agreed to the ToS.

Branding Guidelines

Branded items may be listed or sold only by the brand or intellectual property owner or its authorized agents. A "branded item" is an item that:

• contains or uses a brand name or logo;
• replicates or closely imitates the appearance of a real-world physical product of a brand owner (for example, items that replicate the appearance of brands of cars, jewelry, or shoes that are available in the real world);
• replicates or closely imitates the appearance of a celebrity, famous person, or fictional character from a copyrighted work (for example, avatars that replicate the appearance of movie stars or characters from a book, film, television program, or game); or
• replicates or uses an artistic or creative work that is the subject of copyright (for example, virtual artwork that replicates artwork available in the real world or a sound clip that includes part of a song recording).

"Brand names" include product names; service names; company names; organization names; trade names; designer names; trademarks; service marks; celebrity names; famous persons' names; the unique names of well-known books, films, television programs, games, and other works that are the subject of copyright; and the unique names of well-known fictional characters from copyrighted works.

Be careful not to make comparisons to a brand name or say that your item is "like," "inspired by," or "based on" a brand name because this can be misleading and can lead to intellectual property infringement.

When including pictures in your listings, use a picture that accurately represents your item so that buyers are not confused about what you're selling. Never copy or use someone else's pictures or logos without their permission.

If you are a brand or intellectual property owner or the authorized agent of one, consider making others aware of this information by including it in your listing.

If we receive a complaint from a brand or intellectual property owner, or if we believe in good faith that your listing violates these Branding Guidelines or intellectual property law, we reserve the right to remove your listing and content (including content in Second Life associated with the listing) and in certain circumstances revoke your SL Marketplace and Second Life privileges.

 

 

Tl;dr

LL SAYS DON'T DO IT.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

LL SAYS DON'T DO IT.

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And Inspector Renault said you shouldn't gamble in Casablanca. When his superiors were on his back, that is. They crack down hard on brand names but as far as designs go? If they enforced branded designs there basically wouldn't be a vehicle seller left in Second Life.

[Perrie Juran]

A friend just sent me an an absolutely classic response (pops) by one Attorney on behalf of a client to another Attorney who sent a possibly frivilous cease and desist order (pops) .

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

You could report this to the RL shoemakers so that they can file a DMCA if they object to their designs being sold as SL shoes.  

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I don't think shoes, clothing, and other useful articles are subject to copyright, and I think that's why the fashion industry in RL works the way it does.  Designers have to have new designs each season to be able to have something that hasn't been knocked off by mass marketers.

It's kind of ironic that real shoes are not protected, but virtual shoes are.  When I read the OP, I wondered id the first SL designer to make  a virtual knockoff of a RL design can claim copyright, and I don't see why not, since she would be the original creator of the 

virtual

design.

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You are correct that you can't copyright an idea, but a design is a grey area.  Some posters have said that it is specifically illegal in their country.  I also know that you can patent a design in the US under certain circumstances. Fashion knockoffs I think would have to be slightly different to be legal.  I've heard of many raids against people and manufacturers selling say Rolix watches that look exactly like Rolex or designer handbags.etc.

 

In SL the question about knockoffs of RL fashion being a violation under any RL law is moot.  It is a violation of the TOS which is a legal contract between all residents and LL.  At the bottom of the TOS it references LL's official policies, incorporating the policies into the provisions of the TOS.  The Intellectual Property Policy is listed there.  The IP Policy clearly states (underlining is mine).

"If you're creating objects inspired by real-world objects, take care that your objects have an original appearance and shape. That's the best way to avoid trade dress issues. Be wary of imitating distinctive and recognizable product appearances. For example, the well-known appearance of the Eames lounge chair and ottoman from Herman Miller is protected under trade dress law."

@ Perrie

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Something that has always puzzled me is that I have never seen in a Market Place blurb the phrase "Under License By" or what ever the exact legalize is used on RL on packaging.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have never see it.

You would think that a Merchant who had obtained permission would state it plainly.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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 I agree.  I would certainly state that if I held a license or permission from the original creator, as it would save a lot of hassle from being accused of ripping something off or even getting flagged.  However there is no rule that says you must, to my knowledge.

As for examples of this type of thing existing, I can name two right off.  The first is a well known texture merchants that bought licenses to resell textures in SL that they obtained from Companies that make them.   The second is Coca Cola.  That company was in SL in the early days promoting their products and gave permission for creators that were in SL at the time to use their logo and distinctive bottle shapes, vending machines etc. when make SL replicas of Coke products.  They looked at it as free advertising. 

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I agree.  I would certainly state that if I held a license or permission from the original creator, as it would save a lot of hassle from being accused of ripping something off or even getting flagged.  However there is no rule that says you must, to my knowledge.

As for examples of this type of thing existing, I can name two right off.  The first is a well known texture merchants that bought licenses to resell textures in SL that they obtained from Companies that make them.   The second is Coca Cola.  That company was in SL in the early days promoting their products and gave permission for creators that were in SL at the time to use their logo and distinctive bottle shapes, vending machines etc. when make SL replicas of Coke products.  They looked at it as free advertising. 

 

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It all depends on the agreement between you and the one whose design you use. Most of the things I sell I make myself, but now and then I come across a texture or artwork that would go so well in one of my items, when it is not open source or the artist died more then 70 years ago, I ask permission from the creator to the use the work in my design. Sources where I find things are for example FlickR or DeviantArt. The people I approach are often hobby photographers or artists, and when I explain about Second Life and what I do here, some just say 'It's okay with me, as long as you give me credits'. Others want a financial compensation for the use of their work. This can be a one time amount, but I also have for example a contract with a person that I pay a commission of sales during two years and after those two years he grants me all rights for the use of his texture in SL.

But since this are just parts that I use in my total product I don't put in my listing on the marketplace that I have permission from this or that person to use this or that texture or photo. I put the credits somewhere in the product. Most of the time on free space in the texture, sometimes also in a description field of the object. 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I agree.  I would certainly state that if I held a license or permission from the original creator, as it would save a lot of hassle from being accused of ripping something off or even getting flagged.  However there is no rule that says you must, to my knowledge.

As for examples of this type of thing existing, I can name two right off.  The first is a well known texture merchants that bought licenses to resell textures in SL that they obtained from Companies that make them.   The second is Coca Cola.  That company was in SL in the early days promoting their products and gave permission for creators that were in SL at the time to use their logo and distinctive bottle shapes, vending machines etc. when make SL replicas of Coke products.  They looked at it as free advertising. 

 

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It all depends on the agreement between you and the one whose design you use. Most of the things I sell I make myself, but now and then I come across a texture or artwork that would go so well in one of my items, when it is not open source or the artist died more then 70 years ago, I ask permission from the creator to the use the work in my design. Sources where I find things are for example FlickR or DeviantArt. The people I approach are often hobby photographers or artists, and when I explain about Second Life and what I do here, some just say 'It's okay with me, as long as you give me credits'. Others want a financial compensation for the use of their work. This can be a one time amount, but I also have for example a contract with a person that I pay a commission of sales during two years and after those two years he grants me all rights for the use of his texture in SL.

But since this are just parts that I use in my total product I don't put in my listing on the marketplace that I have permission from this or that person to use this or that texture or photo. I put the credits somewhere in the product. Most of the time on free space in the texture, sometimes also in a description field of the object. 

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What you are doing is perfectly legal and I'd probably handle crediting the source the same way since they are parts.  It is really no different than buying something full perm with a user license on MP that you use as part of a larger build that you sell. You must follow the terms of your license  but most don't require that you credit it to the creator as part of a sales listing.

I was referring a situation where I was selling a whole product.  For example where I might purchase a license to sell mesh models in SL created by someone else not in SL.  My license will dictate what rules I must follow concerning attributing the product to the creator.  But if my license does not require it, LL doesn't either.  However I would anyway not only for the reasons given in my post above but also because I think it would be unethical to lead people to believe I created it