MARKETPLACE - What to do when you have been reported

[Tiola Violet]

I sent out a notecard to a bloggers list looking for people that like my stuff to blog it and in return I got contacted by this really nasty guy accusing be of selling copybotted items on my marketplace and that he and other bloggers were reporting me.

Of course he took 15min to yell and rub it in my face but when I asked for explanations and help he was too busy.

So now I feel awful and don’t quite know what to do?

Although a lot are my own creations some I mix with things I buy, tweek, modify, script and add stuff too.

But I definitely bought EVERYTHING and am not aware if things that I sell have been stolen.

What should I do?
How do I know if I have really been reported?
How can I prove my good faith to Linden
And what are the risks, can they shut down my account?

Any information would be appreciated.

[Tex Monday]

---

Tiola Violet wrote

First of all, I am sorry to hear that this jerk is giving you a hard time. IMHO, since he didn't want to back his accusations up with facts, he's probably blowing smoke....but....

 

What should I do?

Nothing....as I said, he's probably just blowing smoke...

 

How do I know if I have really been reported?

I don't think you can. I am not a merchant,but in all other cases LL doesn't let people who are reported know until they decide to take action.

 

How can I prove my good faith to Linden? 

Again, I don't think you can and wouldn't worry about it unless LL contacts you.

 

And what are the risks, can they shut down my account?

If there is abuse, I think they can...but again IMHO I don't think you need to worry about it. I think they should contact you if there are any problems. Don't sweat it.

 

Just my opinion...good luck.

---

[Tiola Violet]

Only half reassures me as you say they can maybe deleat my account.... :catsad:

So fingers crossed you are right and thank you for your reply.

Tiola

[Madeline Blackbart]

Mixing things and such is fine if the full perm items give those permissions. all you can do is go back and check terms of service on the items you sell and if your breaking them you'll have to take them down.

[Czari Zenovka]

When you say you have "bought everything" - are you referring to purchasing components from merchants who sell full-perm building components with licensing agreements that you can use them in your builds?

Something that gives me a bit of pause when looking at your MP store is that your items are all over the board including clothes (from jeans, to men's jackets, to evening gowns), hair, sculpted feet, jewelry, Zen gardens, textures, tattoos, eyes, and full-perm building kits.  Many, if not most, merchants design in one or two areas.  Just a quick look over the items you sell, seing no uniform "branding" on your merchant images, plus the prices being much lower than similar items by other merchants can send up red flags.  I am definitely not accusing you of anything, but perhaps offering an insight into what the blogger might have noticed.

Only the original creator of an item can file what is called a DMCA which you can read about here.  People who spot what they think are copybotted items can contact the original creator but again, only the original creator can file the DMCA to LL who will then "take down" the reported items until it is determined if an item is indeed a copybotted item.

ETA: *If* someone does file a DMCA on any of your items, not only are the items in question taken down from your MP & in world store, but they also disappear from the inventories of your customers who purchased it/them.  I'm not sure exactly when that happens.  A merchant with experience in filing DMCA's may read this thread and have more detailed info on the timeline.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

The only thing that Linden Lab is going to pay attention to is a correctly filed DCMA.  A DCMA can only be filed by the original creator.  So these bloggers can blow wind all day long and it will mean nothing to LL.

 

[Tiola Violet]

Toila violet smiles, I am guilty of all of what you just said.

I'm incapable of keeping a branding method over my 5 years of creation, I always think what other people do is better and change it all the time. As I do this for fun it may not be the "commercial" way of doing things but hey that's not a crime.

Yes, I have tried to create many different things, with more or less success and I am proud of it, and had lots of pleasure doing so. All the building kits, textures, tattoos, eyes are 100% me along with most of the clothing. Fot the sculpty stuff i use building kits becase i'm usless at 3D.

And yes, I also prefer to sell 1 object to 100 people then to 10 so I do low prices because that's what feels right to me.

When I say "bought everything" I mean full perm stuff  yes. Alot are my own creations, some are made with parts of building kits or templates. I sadly can't do hair no matter how much I have tried, but they were purched full-perm mostly from sweet and pop and I add scripted color flowers, bows, lollipops, resizing scripts stuff like that.

If the worst I risque is things disapearing then thats fine by me. And if someone sees somthin that sould not be in my store then please let me know and i will take it down. I can't do better then that !

Thank you very much for your insight Czari

Do you think i should rebrand everything?
Should i put up my prices? I've tried before but things just don't sell.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Tiola Violet wrote:

And

yes,

I

also

prefer

to

sell

1

object

to

100

people

then

to

10

so

I

do

low

prices

because

that's

what

feels

right

to

me

.

---

Hey, that's MY line! I've been saying it for years - ever so slightly different though. People used to tell me that my prices were too low and I'd always say that "I'd rather sell 11 at L$100 than 1 at L$1000". And I was right, as my bank records can show. So gerroff my line, you upstart!

[Tiola Violet]

lol, sorry you'll have to share I'm afraid :catembarrassed: 

 

[Phil Deakins]

hrmph!

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Tiola Violet wrote:

Toila violet smiles,

I

am

guilty

of

all

of

what

you

just

said

.

I'm

incapable

of

keeping

a

branding

method

over

my

5

years

of

creation,

I

always

think

what

other people

do

is

better

and

change

it

all

the

time

.

As

I

do

this

for

fun

it

may

not

be

the

"

commercial

"

way

of

doing

things

but

hey

that's

not

a

crime

.

Yes,

I

have

tried

to

create

many

different

things,

with

more

or

less

success

 

and

I

am

proud

of

it,

and

had

lots

of

pleasure

doing

so

. All the building kits, textures, tattoos, eyes are 100% me

along with most of the clothing. Fot the sculpty stuff i use building kits becase i'm usless at 3D.

And

yes,

I

also

prefer

to

sell

1

object

to

100

people

then

to

10

so

I

do

low

prices

because

that's

what

feels

right

to

me

.

When I say 

"bought everything" I mean full perm stuff  yes. Alot are my own creations, some are made with parts of building kits or templates. I sadly can't do hair no matter how much I have tried, but they were purched full-perm mostly from sweet and pop and I add scripted color flowers, bows, lollipops, resizing scripts stuff like that.

If the worst I risque is things disapearing then thats fine by me. And if someone sees somthin that sould not be in my store then please let me know and i will take it down. I can't do better then that !

Thank you very much for your insight Czari

Do you think i should rebrand everything?

Should i put up my prices? I've tried before but things just don't sell.

---

Hi again Tiola :matte-motes-smile:  I want to make it very clear that, as stated in my first post, I was in no way accusing you of any wrongdoing.  When someone posts to the forums regarding their MP store, I like to check it out so I can speak (somewhat) intelligibly on the subject.  In looking through your store, the issues I mentioned popped out at me in a manner that I can see where someone, ie. the blogger, *could* have seen items s/he thought s/he recognized.  This in no way excuses the rudeness of the blogger

I'm definitely not one to tell another merchant how to run their store.  The following are only suggestions garnered from my own trial & error over the years as well as reading posts of other merchants.

*Branding - I do believe that is very important as it helps a merchant to create "recognition" for want of a better word.  There are some very well-known stores in SL that I only have to glance at the image on an ad and know exactly which store it is.  Branding also gives a unified look & feel to one's store/images.  It does not have to be fancy or complicated; in fact, often "less is more."  For my images I work from a template I created on Gimp. Static elements of my items (the "framed" look, store name, permissions, and background) are almost always identical.  When I list a new item I take photos of it and plug them into the template.

*Pricing - I'm not great at this myself.  I've been told by other merchants and friends that I should increase my prices but, as you said, my prices are what I feel comfortable charging.  I have changed different ones over the years but never really saw much difference in purchase outcome.  In comparing my items to similar ones by other merchants the prices range from, imo, very expensive to higher quality items that are priced lower.  Pricing has been a hot topic on the merchant forums over the years.  You might like to join us on that forum for questions - there are many very successful merchants who post there who can provide invaluable info.

In the end, we all have to do what we are most comfortable with, mixed with keeping an eye out for suggestions and ideas that would enhance the worth of our items as well as presenting them to customers in their best light.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Tiola Violet wrote:

And

yes,

I

also

prefer

to

sell

1

object

to

100

people

then

to

10

so

I

do

low

prices

because

that's

what

feels

right

to

me

.

---

Hey, that's MY line! I've been saying it for years - ever so slightly different though. People used to tell me that my prices were too low and I'd always say that "

I'd rather sell 11 at L$100 than 1 at L$1000

". And I was right, as my bank records can show. So gerroff my line, you upstart!

---

LOL, Phil.  My items are priced low as well.  Just want to clear up any misconception that I was saying this is a bad thing.  The issue was the OP being accused of copybotting and, in looking over her store, a number of things *combined* led me to see where someone *could* form that opinion. 

ETA: Ooooo, Phil your post reminded me of something.  I have been wrestling with the Copy/Mod vs Trans/Mod permissions...again.  Iirc, your items are Trans/Mod?  I've heard some people say they will never purchase an item without Copy perms.  You have been very successful - if you don't mind sharing (or sending an IM if you prefer) what helped you decide on your permissions?  I've been tearing my hair out over this.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

ETA: Ooooo, Phil your post reminded me of something.  I have been wrestling with the Copy/Mod vs Trans/Mod permissions...again.  Iirc, your items are Trans/Mod?  I've heard some people say they will never purchase an item without Copy perms.  You have been very successful - if you don't mind sharing (or sending an IM if you prefer) what helped you decide on your permissions?  I've been tearing my hair out over this.

---

My answer is easy, Czari. I was in the skybox rental business when I started the store so I knew that home rental businesses need to furnish their rentals. It was obvious from the outset that, if I sold copyable furniture, I'd sometimes sell, say, one sofa, and the buyer would put copies of it in a multitude of homes. That wouldn't be very fair to me, so I never sold copyable furniture.

I've had people asking for copyable pieces, and even offering to pay 3 times as much, but I've never done it, because it would be very nearly the same, except I'd get the money for 3 instead of 1, and dozens of copies of it would be used.

I have offered good quantity discounts though, and most people who asked for copyable items for their rentals took advantage of the discounts - which went up to a third off for 20+ units, and the units were mixable; e.g. 20 sofas of various designs qualified for the third off.

So, because of rentals, I think it's a bad choice to sell copyable furniture.

ETA: Those who say they will never buy a non-copy item have never interested me at all. Their reasoning doesn't make any sense from a furniture seller's point of view. If they want copyable items, they are free to make their own. I see no reason to let those in the rental business rez dozens of copies and only pay for one, just to satisfy those few who have a chip on their shoulders about non-copy items. I've always been happy to do without their custom

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Just want to clear up any misconception that I was saying this is a bad thing.  The issue was the OP being accused of copybotting and, in looking over her store, a number of things *combined* led me to see where someone *could* form that opinion. 

 

---

i would have thought the same Czari.:smileyhappy:

as a customer, and also with my experience as creator, when i see a store with tons of items in really different categories, i m not about to think about copybot, but still i dont buy. And i understand it can wake up some suspictions about copybot... not saying its justified, but i understand.

sincerelly, when i buy smth i want the item is an original creation... 

I dont have any pb with a prim linkset, or a mesh or a sculpt, added in a whole things where everything else is original creation. 

As a creator myself, i know that ones cant have every skills... im good a photoshop and still bad with Blender. with time i figured out how to torture prims that i use, but i still need to buy maps from time to times.. but its only a lil "part" of the whole item.

Like the OP, i dont know how to make hair... so i dont do hair... plain and simple... i keep on what i m good for and i try to learn things i m bad for hopping that one day, ill be good enough to use these new skills. 

But well, from my experience in SL everyone has different expectations and there is space for everyone. So i have no pb about this.

[Czari Zenovka]

Thank you for your input, Phil. :matte-motes-smile: 

From a customer's perspective I can understand desiring copy permissions for two purposes (other than the one you mentioned):

1. If I mod an item and make a mess of it.  This happened to me mostly in my very early days in SL when I didn't understand soft-linking and tried to take a soft-linked item back into inventory and ended up with parts that I didn't know how to put back together. 

2. To have a backup copy in case SL decides to nibble on my inventory.  That happened to me twice in six years, so really not often enough to be concerned about.

I switched to Mod/Trans from Mod/Copy during the DD migration.  So far my sales are about average for me.

[Phil Deakins]

I've never heard of "soft linking". What on earth is that?

I do get people making a mess of things, not only when they are trying to alter them, but also by accidentally dropping a texture on them when they intended it to go onto something else. It's comparatively rare and I do sort it out when asked.

I also get asked if I will replace an item because the person was force-moved and they didn't receive the item. It's always in a coalesced object and I help them to get it out.

Those things are comparatively rare so no-copy problems aren't a significant enough problem to make me even consider selling copyable items.

When I said that I've never sold copy items, it wasn't wholly true. I made and sold a temp-rezzer some years ago. As you know, they are largely used to furnish homes without significantly increasing the prim count. Temp-rezzers require that the things they rez are copyable, But I had a huge store, full of furniture, none of which was copyable so none of it could be used in the temp-rezzer. It seemed silly, so I made a special range of copyable furniture for use in the temp rezzer. It didn't last long. I didn't like selling copy items so I stopped selling them, and also stopped selling the temp-rezzer. The decision was easy to make, and it was even easier because too many people needed help setting the rezzers up, in spite of very full and clear instructions.

I also sold copyable cushions But that's all.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I've never heard of "soft linking". What on earth is that?

---

Soft-linking is the term  used (at least in all the classes I've taken) when a build, for various reasons, cannot be all linked together as one unit.  I sell a swing that has to be soft-linked or else the swinging mechanism won't work.  My menorahs are also soft-linked so that each candle can be lit separately. I've purchased furniture in the past that had many drawers that opened independently that were softlinked.

If one does not use the correct procedure to rez and/or take a soft-linked item into inventory, she ends up moving or taking a part of the build, but not all.  Soft-linked houses are mostly sold in Rez-Faux boxes which takes care of initial positioning but still need to be handled a bit differently when taken back into inventory.

[Phil Deakins]

So it's not linking at all. It's just that some parts are positioned in specific places and the term "soft linking" is used to signify that. Ty

[Teagan Tobias]

Phil wrote:

ETA: Those who say they will never buy a non-copy item have never interested me at all. Their reasoning doesn't make any sense from a furniture seller's point of view. If they want copyable items, they are free to make their own. I see no reason to let those in the rental business rez dozens of copies and only pay for one, just to satisfy those few who have a chip on their shoulders about non-copy items.

 

I am most likely the most outspoken person I have seen in the forums about copy items, and I understand the difference between clothing and furniture. I agree with no copy furniture (plants, rocks, trees, etc...), but not no copy clothing. I am homeless in SL so furniture is the last thing I will be looking for. I log on at a welcome center and hope for the best. I lost to many no copy items before I decided to buy only copy items, and its working out really great for me.

[Phil Deakins]

Yes, clothing is completely different. Selling copy/no-trans clothing makes a lot of sense, and that's what I would have done had I been in that business. I just won't do it with furniture

I did fall foul of copy/no-trans once, though. It is very rare for me to buy clothing, but I had various castle character bots in my castle, and I was adding a 'damsel in distress'. I needed a suitable middle ages outfit for her, and I found one, so I bought it. Then I discovered that I should have checked the perms first, because I couldn't give it to her.

I don't remember why I IMed the creator about it, but it wasn't out of annoyance, or anything like that. I'd soon logged in with the bot and taken her to the store where she was literally about to buy another copy of the outfit, when the creator IMed me, offering to give one to the the bot, which she did.

That was a brilliant experience.

[Tex Monday]

---

Teagan Tobias wrote:

I am most likely the most outspoken person I have seen in the forums about copy items, and I understand the difference between clothing and furniture. I agree with no copy furniture (plants, rocks, trees, etc...), but not no copy clothing.

---

I'm not sure I agree with that. IMO, if I buy a plant or a lamp or a table (for example) and I want to put it in various places in my house, then I should be able to. I suppose that I'm not thinking like a merchant, but then again, I've never made anything in SL.

[Phil Deakins]

You can put as many copies of those items as you want - all over the house. Just buy them

There is no "should" about being able to buy one and create many copies of it. The word "should" doesn't come into it, except in the minds of those who think that everything should be free, of course.

[Tex Monday]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

You can put as many copies of those items as you want - all over the house. Just buy them

There is no "should" about being able to buy one and create many copies of it. The word "should" doesn't come into it, except in the minds of those who think that everything should be free, of course.

---

Ah...that solves all my problems...thank you, Phil...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

As I said, I'm not thinking like a merchant. When I was looking for certain items for my girls, I wanted things that were copyable so that I could spread the items around the house for them. I'm not one of those people who think everything should be free...in fact, I hardly ever spend any money in SL unless I have to..but I do feel that if I did buy the item and I'm not selling it or giving it away, that making multiple copies is all right. (as you said, I took out the word "should" :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:)

[Perrie Juran]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

You can put as many copies of those items as you want - all over the house. Just buy them

There is no "should" about being able to buy one and create many copies of it. The word "should" doesn't come into it, except in the minds of those who think that everything should be free, of course.

---

For some landscaping things I would prefer copy items but I understand the Merchants quandary.  I could buy one plant and propagate it over the entire grid.

Although I haven't bought any new plants in a while, Martians are naturally born with green thumbs so the ones I bought are thriving well, what I appreciated was one Merchant who gave me the option of buying a single plant or a bulk pack (I think it was a dozen) at a small discount.  When considering comparable plants from several places it was a big factor in my purchase.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, clothing is completely different. Selling copy/no-trans clothing makes a lot of sense, and that's what I would have done had I been in that business. I just won't do it with furniture

I did fall foul of copy/no-trans once, though. It is very rare for me to buy clothing, but I had various castle character bots in my castle, and I was adding a 'damsel in distress'. I needed a suitable middle ages outfit for her, and I found one, so I bought it. Then I discovered that I should have checked the perms first, because I couldn't give it to her.

I don't remember why I IMed the creator about it, but it wasn't out of annoyance, or anything like that. I'd soon logged in with the bot and taken her to the store where she was literally about to buy another copy of the outfit, when the creator IMed me, offering to give one to the the bot, which she did.

That was a brilliant experience.

---

Shhhhh, now you know where you have to go for clothes for you alt :smileywink:

the creator will even make trans pack for you :smileyhappy: