Gambling games in RP sims

[PrisPain]

In the context of an adult roleplaying sim, would having one player wager Lindens and the other player wager sexual services violate the anti-gambling TOS?  The game operator would not be getting a skim, so I see this as more like prostitution RP than gambling, even though it does seem to fit within the literal words of the anti-gambling TOS (unless you view this as not having a "payout" like a real gambling game does).

[Freya Mokusei]

Provided the 'winnings' of the player wagering the L$ were not improved upon (in L$) by winning, and provided the avatar who didn't bet money couldn't also win money, I would say you'd be fine.

i.e., if you bet L$50 and received only L$50 back + whatever sexual favour had been won from the opposing party.

If both players can receive a payout in L$, then I imagine you're in a fairly grey area.

--

These forums have a habit of drawing in people with little or no experience of these rules, so be cautious of what advice you listen to (including mine). If you're in doubt, you will have to consult official support or knowledge base material.

To prove my point, the information strikethrough'd above can be assumed to be incorrect. Whoooooops.

[Tex Monday]

I am far from an expert in this field and have no connection to LL...

But I can tell you that according to the TOS:

"It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value."

You would have to decide if it's within the policy of LL. As I said, I'm no expert and I realize this didn't help at all...sorry..:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

[Amethyst Jetaime]

It makes no difference if its money or something else wagered or if it is RP or not.  The only way I could see it would be legal is if the wager involved winning a task using a skill and that those laying the wager were the ones competing.   Wagering on someone or something else beyond the control of the people laying a wager is gambling and would be against TOS , IMO.

[Freya Mokusei]

Thanks Tex! Of course this is from the Official Gambling Policy.

And contrary to my reply above, it does seem that the system proposed by the OP, as described so far, DOES fall afoul of them, since it uses random number generation to determine a winner.

Sorry about that, OP! My understanding was that the language of the official policy was different, and defined a winner as someone who profited financially from the game. This is not the case, and it seems ambiguous enough that any player with a wager can be considered a winner, regardless of whether they specifically win the L$.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

It is a violation of this policy to wager* in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value.

 

It wouldn't appear to me that Player One (the one wagering L$s) is violating policy (unless the sexual sevices delivered counted as a "thing of value").

Player Two is getting a payout, but isn't wagering anything of value (unless, again, the sexual sevices delivered counted as a "thing of value").

But why risk it? Go pro(stitution) and call it a day. :smileyhappy:

 

What does "wagering" mean according to this policy?

The term "wagering" applies to any covered game or activity (i.e. game of chance, sports betting) in which a user contributes Linden dollars (or real-world money or things of value), whether into a pot, at a table game, at a house game, for purchase of a card (such as Bingo), or in any way risks Linden dollars based on whether an event may or may not occur, such as whether a team will win a sporting event, or whether Barack Obama will win the Democratic primary.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life

 

[Tex Monday]

---

Freya Mokusei wrote:

Thanks Tex! Of course this is from the 

Official Gambling Policy

.

And contrary to my reply above, it does seem that the system proposed by the OP, as described so far, DOES fall afoul of them, since

it uses random number generation

to determine a winner.

Sorry about that, OP! My understanding was that the language of the official policy was different, and defined a winner as someone who profited financially from the game. This is not the case, and it seems ambiguous enough that any player with a wager can be considered a winner, regardless of whether they specifically win the L$.

---

I could have done that...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

and if, to make mattes worse..LL has a policy about gambling with non-linden items

What if no Linden dollars or other "consideration" are accepted or paid out?

If entry is truly "free" (as with a promotional sweepstakes), and the game's operator requires no "consideration" or payment from other players or entrants, then that activity will likely be permitted, assuming compliance with all other applicable laws.

If the "payout" involves objects that are more akin to novelty objects that cannot readily be converted into Linden dollars, real-world currency or value, then that activity will likely be permitted.

I agree with above..I wouldn't chance it. Might be fun on a 1 to 1 basis, but in a whole RP sim, I think it's against TOS.

Good luck either way...

[Jennifer Boyle]

---

Tex Monday wrote:

"It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value."

 

---

I've asked about this before.  I looks to me like that "operated on Linden Lab servers" provides a huge loophole.  As long as you put the game on some other server, you can have any kind of game you want without violating the TOS, and media on a prim provides an easy way to do it.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

---

Tex Monday wrote:

"It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value."

 

---

I've asked about this before.  I looks to me like that "

operated on Linden Lab servers" provides a huge loophole.  As long as you put the game on some other server, you can have any kind of game you want without violating the TOS, and media on a prim provides an easy way to do it.

---

Media on a prim still falls within the LL servers. " in the Second Life® environment" The prim is on the servers. Non skill gambling is banned in SL.. period. Personally, i don't see the need fro gambling in SL anyway. if you are that eager to relieve yourself of L$, give them to me.

[SinfulPrince]

I have been to rp sims that have straight out gambling (bets taken on fights and such) BUT the way it was gotten around was that the entire rp sim did not acknowledge/function by lindens. Instead they generate 100% valueless (it does not exchange for linden) rp currency thats earned, stolen, or transfered between players for ALL trade-including those bets- that occurs in the sim.