A question of creation, rp, and copyright

[Nymph Zenith]

So i'm a content creator and a roleplayer,  i tend to make things I need sometimes for rps i'm in.  alot of the time i'm more concerned with something i would actually wear and would look good in sl then who all wants it.  

 

So being in many groups that have died and are still alive over the years i've made many many avatars over the years as well.  I have an issue with one in particular.

 

A long time ago a group i ran with in html chat rooms fell apart and i came to sl, i aske permission of the lead of this group if i could set up the blood line in sl and i was given permission.

 

so a few years of good rp and the group died mostly because I moved on to other things that i found more fun , the group has been out of action for 4 years in sl.  Honestly I lost the feel for it.  

 

So suddenly in html chat rooms, the leader of this group that i based an sl group on texts me and all of a sudden says I have to remove the group in sl and that i'm ripping him off... i was of course stunned.   Its a shadow demon group and his claim is he was the very first to make a shadow demon group and wrote a book back in 1986.  which he has not shown me, or any proof of any copyright.   He claims he owns the words shadow demon, with no proof at all.

 

i went ahead and looked up the word shadow demon and got this.:

 

http://www.shadowdemon.us/

http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/converted/outsider/demon/shadow_demon.htm (made 1981)

 

finding shadow demons in DND and the monster manual which i own a copy of

http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Shadow_Demon_(3.5e_Monster)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_demon
The shadow demon first appeared in White Dwarf #13 (June 1979).

and appeared in the dc comics http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Demons in 1985.

 

so he is saying im making money off an html group idea and that i'm making money off of his creation.

I do have one shadow demon skin which i made grey, scaled with white markings that is totally not like anything that was described in this chat room.   making sure not to infringe .. on a written text description lol.

 

so this person is trying to claim rights on my work and saying i'm ripping him off, even though, i barely rp with him, or with the group i had, saying he owns the shadow demon name and I have to take down anything shadow demon or he will sue.   and is saying he will come to sl and have me banned???

again i need to stress, he has shown me no sources at all.

you think there is any validation to this?

so if i join a vampire rp group and make a vampire av, is that copyright?

or if i join a dwarf group and make a dwarf av is that wrong??

if i join a sith group and make a sith outfit is that also wrong? (have actually)

 

i'm really bothered by these accusations as i've been victim to scams and content thieves many times, is this really feasable?  because i was in a html chat group long ago they have right to call me a thief because i made a skin in sl??

(fyi there only graphics used in html is one static picture made with a real life model and he is using keanu reeves image as his own av).

 

I am yes deleting the bloodline of this group and rewriting it only because i don't want my rpers exposed to this crazy, and though I am keeping the name of the group plan on placing a new blood line within.  Honestly want out of all this insanity.

 

so please place thoughts here

[Drac Coalcliff]

As far as I know he can't do anything, even if he did write said book since obviously DC and WB would have a more legit claim on the Shadow Demon name than he does... he can try and sue them as well, this should be fun to watch, as I know for a fact DC and WB would crush his ass.

But even then, Shadow Demons have been around much longer than that and are based on mythology and to a certain extent "Shadow People" who are somewhat related to ghosts. ( http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090507230546AArnjPo )

Dota and Dota 2 also uses the Shadow Demon name ( http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Demon ) maybe he can go after Valve...

 

[Nymph Zenith]

sorry he wrote his book in 2004

[Drac Coalcliff]

then Valve, WB and DC can take turns kicking his ass

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Given that shadow demon was around long before his group or book was, I doubt he has any trademark on the name or a copyright on the character,so unless he can show you documentation he's full of it.

That said, you may still be violating someone's IP rights by having the group in SL and using the character.  You may want to look up who owns they copyright and ask permission. You have nothing to lose and they may grant it as a fan based RP.

[Nymph Zenith]

that is a great idea, the problem is finding the real source lol.

i'll be doing my homework and thank you for the input

 

 

-revised-

 

so i looked it up and the actual rights to the shadow demon name belongs to a band... oo sweet hope i can get ahold of them

[Sassy Romano]

You see, had you created something original such as "Lime green jelly monster with a cherry on top demon", you'd never end up having such issues.

(If anyone thinks they can now create the above mentioned creature, let the internet judge based on history of posting!)

[Jennifer Boyle]

I do not believe that a two-word phrase can be copyrighted.  If one wanted to restrict its use by others, one would need to register it as a trademark.  I checked the US Patent and Trademark Office Web site, and "Shadow Demon" is not registered.  

[chmarr Walcott]

this is simple, unless that person can provide HARD proof that he wrote the history of the shadow demon then he is telling outright lies.

 

the first mention of the shadowdemon if i can remember was way back in the early 1920's in early horror movies and  if i remember rightly in REAL history the shadow demon was mentioned in witch trils in the uk during the darkages.

 

so this person who is claiming ownership / copyright of a mythical being which is technicly public domain, now if this person chages aspects of the shadowdemon lore which is nothing like the origonal then that person can then claim ownership BUT if it contains ANY of the origonal lore then he or she cannot have ownership / copyright.

 

now i understand what nymph is talking about and i have been there and all i did was demand hard proof, the hard proof means a real world document or even a copyright number which can be legitly checked, if nothing can be provided then that person cannot claim ownership.

 

also why are they trying to claim ownership of something that has no realwporld impact and then toss in the fact the world of darkness already have there own version of the shadow demon

[Deja Letov]

I wouldn't change a darn thing, not even your bloodlines group. In fact, most people in groups will rally in your favor. he does not own the copyright, he is full of some serious turd business.Shadow Demons have been around long before 2004, he didn't invent them, and after checking with any government patent and copyright checker, he hasn't registered it. When something isn't registered, if in fact it is even copyrightable (is that a word) the ownership goes to "first in use". meaning whoever used it first and ONLY if they go to file a copyright. And I can promise you shadow demon was not first used by him. Perhaps we should make him watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[Drac Coalcliff]

so lets recap in no particular order:

 

A band

DC/Warner Bros./Time Warner

Valve

A 1920s movie

Buffy (Which is Also WB)

A myth based on the Witch Trials

A name for a "shadowy figure" ghost

 

I think ita safe for you to tell him off and kindly tell him to go and... insert his so called book up his anus (trying to stay PGish is hard)

[Jolene Merlin]

My god Nymph...

Stand your ground on this, and DEMAND he cough up proof of his book and copyright claims!

I still have the first skin I bought in all of SL back in 2007, which I bought from YOU and its one of your still gorgeous Shadow Demon skins!   So keep up your good work, and stand your ground against this loser!

 

[Myst Panther]

I thought I'd toss my 2cents in on this.

To the OP:

Firstly, copyright specifically, as far as art and creative materials only covers the right to reproduce  (or copy and distribute publicly) something which has already been set down in a specific form. They KEY here is that you have to have set down in a concrete form. This means it has to be written, drawn/painted/rendered, or recorded. This does not extend to CONCEPTS. So IDEAS don't count. A "shadow demon" is a vague concept. You can't copyright it.

From the US copyright office: 

Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

So the IDEA does not entitle him to any rights. However, on the flipside, Nymph, YOU created an artwork of a skin. That act of setting your idea into a fixed, tangible form, makes YOUR version actually protected by copyright. Unless this guy has artwork that he made that shows a definate match between your skin and his artwork, that could be used to proove that you copied his artwork of a shadowdemon to make your skin, then he's quite honestly got nothing to stand on. 

You also cannot copyright a name. Another section from the copyright website:

Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

Honestly, like many people who don't understand copyright and what it protects, he's barking up the wrong tree. You are completely within your rights to stand your ground to this bully. Because honestly, that's all it sounds like he's doing. He cannot own a copyright on the name or concept of shadowdemon. That's it. Period. Because that's not what copyright law covers.

I highly suggest you educate yourself more fully on what is and isn't copyrightable and don't let him intimidate yourself or your players with this sort of BS. Check out the US copyright office's FAQ, its pretty comprehensive and covers most of what's considered pretty standard in North America and most of Europe.

 

 

 

 

[Nymph Zenith]

sorry for the late reply , rl work has me bogged down a little.

 

thank you everyone for your views and i've decided to make the shadow demon skin free, only because i'm going to redo it and make it a complete av as soon as i've mastered mesh.  if not well then sculpties lol.

 

thank you myst that was amazing and alot of that i really had no idea about, you are incredibly informative and i feel i should be paying you lol.

 

To make matters easy we have simply disolved the friendship, i no longer will be doing html rp or any form of chat based roleplay. 

 

I will be in sl for as long as sl is alive, and i'm going to keep creating and keep rping, but will be more careful about what groups i join and who i'm interacting with.

 

 

so enjoy the free skins, I do hope v2 will be up to everyones expectations of see no evil and me

 

*snug hugs*

[Nymph Zenith]

btw deja *hugs* long time no see lol