New Promo features for the marketplace?

[Lukeh Ghost]

Already wrote a little JIRA on this to see if something like this can get going.
The marketplace has gotten much better since magic boxes are no longer needed it's so easy to upload and update now!

Anyway this is a feature I think merchants will find useful if they want to hold a firesale, or a christmas discount where they can select a bunch or all of their products, enter a percentage for the price to be discounted at enter dates of start and finish then click OK and boom! Mass Sales!

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4935

I think it's an awesome idea if I do say so myself!

Any other things which could make this more useful?

[Luna Bliss]

Lukeh, while this idea is a great one for any individual merchant to implement from time to time, I'm afraid the effect of adopting this for the entire MP would only have the effect of lowering the value of all content on the MP even further.
If every content creator participated in it, or even a large percentage of them, then content with a greatly discounted price would always be available as a shopper searched. Everyone might as well just slash their prices 75% and leave it there because if you had anything at the normal price a shopper could easily search through the MP and find the same thing on sale (it's just too easy like this with a centralized MP).
LL has already found numerous ways to devalue our content - they give extra weight in Search to cheaper items, they started advertising the world as a free world, and on and on - we don't want to start helping them. They presented this idea long ago only we would pay for banners to advertise the sales.

[Czari Zenovka]

I don't want CTL to even *think* about doing something else to muck up...errrr *enhance* the MP until they get the mixed listing issue corrected (still have 4 of those on my store), fix the issue that no copy items can be sold via DD, and several other related jiras that popped up over 4 months ago that are still languishing.

Part of me is getting to the breaking point with the whole deal...

[Darrius Gothly]

I kind of like this idea Lukeh. I'd extend it to require a time limit on the duration of the discount (with a max time of perhaps 7 days) and allow specifying a date range that it's effective (so a merchant can set it up in advance and get their marketing in order .. and not have to remember to do it "at the last minute").

I disagree that Merchants would use it to discount all of their prices, although they *might* jack up their prices and then apply discounts .. the old "jack and slash" technique of making it look like the customer is getting a deal. But I think overall Merchants that want to cut their prices would simply change the normal amount and not go the extra step of using a discount.

It would also have to ensure that any Orders that included the sale item but that were purchased outside the discount date range would be charged the full price and NOT the sale price. As it stands now, if a Merchant lowers the item price then sometime later raises it again, anyone that puts the item in their Shopping Cart at the reduced price will pay that reduced price .. even if they don't actually complete the purchase until months later.

However I also agree strongly with Czari ... I don't want the Commerce Dev Team to undertake ANY new features or enhancements until they fix the problems already "showstopping" the Marketplace. Things like being unable to sell limited quantity items via DD, the cross-linked listings, the failures of the Merchant Outbox to initialize, and other such critical issues. Those absolutely have to be fixed before they should even think about adding something to the Marketplace. I'd also prefer that they first add some much more important features that have been requested for .. well since Marketplace was first released .. like good reporting, proper statistics gathering, fixing Search so a shopper can use an advanced search query, etc.

So yes, I agree, this could be a nice feature. But I'm afraid there's a lot of things that need to come before we can even begin to hope of seeing it added.

[Tiffy Vella]

Lukeh, I'd also like there to be more and better ways for all merchants to promote their work and increase sales, but I'm afraid that I'm a bit with Luna on this. Like you, I'd like there to be a way to give commerce a friendly poke, but it invariably involves decreasing the expectations of merchants further and further. LL don't care if we make everything almost free, because "free or cheap" is how they want to sell our efforts to attract more residents.

Let's start promoting stores with good service, flexible permissions, excellent products, original creativity. I know your idea is nice and simple (which has it's benefits) and promotion in ways other than price cutting becomes much more complex. And I can't even pretend to have the answers; need more coffee and brains

[Spica Inventor]

Yeah those ideas would make things much more convenient for many merchants. But why don't the merchants just price their stuff cheaper permanently so SL can actually start growing again for the betterment of all?

[Spica Inventor]

"LL has already found numerous ways to devalue our content - they give extra weight in Search to cheaper items"

Actually the opposite is the case. Products that are over 999 L$ go to the top of the relevance search results much easier with far less sales per time period  than cheaper products. ;-)

", they started advertising the world as a free world, and on and on - we don't want to start helping them. They presented this idea long ago only we would pay for banners to advertise the sales".

The Merchants should be giving back alot more than they do IMHO. ;-)

[Spica Inventor]

"LL don't care if we make everything almost free, because "free or cheap" is how they want to sell our efforts to attract more residents".

That's nonsense. LL's actions are obviously directed toward pushing prices up, not down. They don't seem to be all that interested in making SL attractive to the general population out there, but they blatently cater to only the members with lots of money to burn.

[Luna Bliss]

The kindest words, are the unkind words, unsaid.

The kindest words, are the unkind words, unsaid.

The kindest words, are the unkind words, unsaid....

[Dartagan Shepherd]

---

Spica Inventor wrote:

Yeah those ideas would make things much more convenient for many merchants. But why don't the merchants just price their stuff cheaper permanently so SL can actually start growing again for the betterment of all?

---

Once upon a time, when SL was booming and SLX existed you could sell an avatar shape for L$4,000 and a complex widget for L$50,000 and people could still get volumes of freebies.

Things are no longer booming, prices are a fraction of what they once were, and there are less people and merchants now.

There were also more people earning full time incomes.

At one point, one of the SLX partners decided that they were going to hire full time employees and crank out goods all priced at L$10 and suggested all merchants do the same.

For volumes of reasons and pages of posts, common wisdom was that this was an extremely bad idea. The idea was shelved and those low priced goods never provided a viable business model for that partner.

If this was a serious statement, it's off base.

All markets degrade unless controlled.

If LL changed its prices to reflect modern times and got rid of the invisible monetization bits, and controlled the market, the entire "economy" would be stronger once again.

Freeplay seemed like a good idea at the time (when in reality it's just a competitive response to a saturated market), but even that begins to degrade. Ask Zynga.

SL is already free, a world full of dirt cheap products guts the lure of opportunity for creators. It's one of the few things they haven't completely destroyed.

Merchants and land barons are the last business opportunities left. If they go, it's game over.

 

 

[Tiffy Vella]

Haven't we all had this debate over many years, and in so many different forums. The camp is and will always be divided, naturally. It can get a tad irky, too, from memory.

Prices have continued to fall over the years as a competitive market tempts some to choose the quick and dirty option of slashing prices, and the next merchant be beggared. This gives one merchant a short-term advantage, but this is all.

If a virtual-world-wide price cut was really the secret to stimulating the market, then we wouldn't be in this situation now. It would already be cured, merchants wouldn't be leaving, creativity would be rampant, and creators wouldn't be dumping cheap full-perms stuff on the MP. Because we have already done it. We already sell much much more for much much less, and it's been happening steadily since I've been around to witness it. So why aren't we all enjoying the benefits of our efforts by now? Why instead are many merchants losing their sims, and opting to do other things?

Anyone who has been involved in SL creation for a few years has already witnessed the failure of the "sell your work cheaper and the world will love you forever" mantra. It works exactly the same in RL, too, funnily enough. No matter what you create and sell, there will always be a section of the community that will pressure you to expect less for your work- that's just how some people roll.

There is such a thing as finding a sensible price point, and creating the best you can within that range.....hopefully those who can do that will always have a place in SL, as they are much needed.

 

(editing to add that this comment is to the thread in general, not personally to you, Lukeh )

 

 

[Spica Inventor]

"Once upon a time, when SL was booming and SLX existed you could sell an avatar shape for L$4,000 and a complex widget for L$50,000 and people could still get volumes of freebies."

Overpriced stuff still exists in large numbers being purchased by those with alot of money to burn I suppose. Otherwise they still wouldn't be priced at such exorbitant prices would they? It is true that with competition some old things naturally  have come down in price to make way for the new as they get purchased out, but any implications that 4000L avatars and 20,000L castles or whatever can't be bought anymore anywhere near that price is nonsense. ;-)

"Things are no longer booming, prices are a fraction of what they once were, and there are less people and merchants now".

Actually there are more merchants out there but they are focusing on The Marketplace more  and more and in many cases exclusively. There are more things beings being sold on a daily basis as peeps are more able to afford more things now that more things are being represented by cheaper prices (along with higher quality).

"There were also more people earning full time incomes".

That I doubt. More likely there are fewer peeps making 'large' sums every month but more making just enough to get by amounts.

"At one point, one of the SLX partners decided that they were going to hire full time employees and crank out goods all priced at L$10 and suggested all merchants do the same".

"For volumes of reasons and pages of posts, common wisdom was that this was an extremely bad idea. The idea was shelved and those low priced goods never provided a viable business model for that partner".

I have never heard of SLX. Perhaps it was intended to be a publicity stunt all along that didn't work because 'they' didn't want it to work? ;-)

"All markets degrade unless controlled".

Didn't a guy named Karl Marx coin that phrase? hehe

"If LL changed its prices to reflect modern times and got rid of the invisible monetization bits, and controlled the market, the entire "economy" would be stronger once again".

But they try to control the market including the money supply and it seems to have had the opposite effect. ;-)

Freeplay seemed like a good idea at the time (when in reality it's just a competitive response to a saturated market), but even that begins to degrade. Ask Zynga.

Freeplay? Never heard of that one either. Sounds like just another phony publicity stunt though.

"SL is already free, a world full of dirt cheap products guts the lure of opportunity for creators. It's one of the few things they haven't completely destroyed".

Nonsense. Have you ever heard of volume? A  larger consumption base? 'Dirt cheap' products tend to be very low quality, but because there is a substantial market out there for them, that only means that there is a group of people not willing to participate in SL at higher prices. Would it be better for the SL economy if they just disappeared? As it is, the only thing keeping the daily user statistics elevated is the existence of some price deflation.

"Merchants and land barons are the last business opportunities left. If they go, it's game over."

Nonsense. The vast majority of merchants out there are not all that interested quitting their day job to try to survive as a full time merchant on SL, but still make very nice products even if at a greatly reduced rate (as well as price usually).

 

 

 

 

 

[Spica Inventor]

"Prices have continued to fall over the years as a competitive market tempts some to choose the quick and dirty option of slashing prices, and the next merchant be beggared. This gives one merchant a short-term advantage, but this is all".

No nonsense. There are all types of income levels out there willing to spend only so much. Volume purchasing is a factor that you peeps seem to love to ignore. People have budgets and that's all they are going to spend, but most like 90% who might like to enjoy SL will not spend it all in one place so to speak, and so if it essentially required to spend it all in one place so to speak, they simply just wont be here to spend it at all. That's what really caused the diminished daily user base in SL (ultimately due to high land costs). The idea that all the 'great and talented' merchants/creaters are doing an exodus and not being replaced is a bunch of crap. ;-)

"If a virtual-world-wide price cut was really the secret to stimulating the market, then we wouldn't be in this situation now. It would already be cured, merchants wouldn't be leaving, creativity would be rampant, and creators wouldn't be dumping cheap full-perms stuff on the MP. Because we have already done it. We already sell much much more for much much less, and it's been happening steadily since I've been around to witness it. So why aren't we all enjoying the benefits of our efforts by now? Why instead are many merchants losing their sims, and opting to do other things"?

In actuality if it wasn't for those merchants that are willing to price for the budgets of the majority that still hang on to SL, SL would be more obviously going out of business right now. There are more Merchants now than ever. Creativity and the quality thereof is greater as time goes on. Another truth is that many creaters/merchants are here in SL just to be creative and encourage others to be creative without necessarily caring how much money they make off their products and they are the ones who sell much lower than the land cost/based artificial market requires. What is important to them is that others can afford to purchase their products and perhaps get inspired and creative in that way. There has always been freebies and cheapies out there, so lets not pretend that there wasn't. But land has always been way over priced and the markets that feed the land costs was bound to saturate the willing and able market eventually. 

"Anyone who has been involved in SL creation for a few years has already witnessed the failure of the "sell your work cheaper and the world will love you forever" mantra. It works exactly the same in RL, too, funnily enough. No matter what you create and sell, there will always be a section of the community that will pressure you to expect less for your work- that's just how some people roll".

People who sell their stuff cheaper sell more. Just a law of the universe kind of thing. The question is how much more and how much time is required for it to pay dividends? Most of you are extremely short sided and short term based and that is understandable as that is how society has become in the real world, but like in the real world, such thinking has caused long term harm in SL and now we are seeing the stubborn results slowly play out.

"There is such a thing as finding a sensible price point, and creating the best you can within that range.....hopefully those who can do that will always have a place in SL, as they are much needed".

You know, highly regulated price controlled Communist economies don't have a very good track record for growth in RL. Why do you think it's going to work in SL? A Libertarian type of economy would work much better in SL anyway. ;-)

 

 

 

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Overpriced stuff still exists in large numbers being purchased by those with alot of money to burn I suppose. Otherwise they still wouldn't be priced at such exorbitant prices would they? It is true that with competition some old things naturally  have come down in price to make way for the new as they get purchased out, but any implications that 4000L avatars and 20,000L castles or whatever can't be bought anymore anywhere near that price is nonsense. ;-)

No, trust me, prices today are not even close to what they were. Not by half. Yes there are still relatively high price points.

Case in point on the castles, there used to be a great guy who made castles exclusively. He made a healthy full time income. He went out of business, sold his sims.

Actually there are more merchants out there but they are focusing on The Marketplace more  and more and in many cases exclusively. There are more things beings being sold on a daily basis as peeps are more able to afford more things now that more things are being represented by cheaper prices (along with higher quality).

Maybe you  haven't noticed the long steady decline with SL over the years. More merchants and sims lost than gained. They've just been consolidated now.

"There were also more people earning full time incomes".

That I doubt. More likely there are fewer peeps making 'large' sums every month but more making just enough to get by amounts.

On the contrary, there were more of both.

I have never heard of SLX. Perhaps it was intended to be a publicity stunt all along that didn't work because 'they' didn't want it to work? ;-)

It was the top independently owned and operated marketplace at the time. It was bought out by LL and became the Marketplace you have today.

Freeplay? Never heard of that one either. Sounds like just another phony publicity stunt though.

As good a description as any. The model is all about the free carrot.

Nonsense. Have you ever heard of volume? A  larger consumption base? 'Dirt cheap' products tend to be very low quality, but because there is a substantial market out there for them, that only means that there is a group of people not willing to participate in SL at higher prices. Would it be better for the SL economy if they just disappeared? As it is, the only thing keeping the daily user statistics elevated is the existence of some price deflation.

China agrees. Also I'm not saying that free, low price AND higher prices can't all happily exist at once. In a very healthy environment, they can. We've seen healther. This is less.

Nonsense. The vast majority of merchants out there are not all that interested quitting their day job to try to survive as a full time merchant on SL, but still make very nice products even if at a greatly reduced rate (as well as price usually).

Again, I'm saying that there can and has been more of both. Free and low cost isn't going to draw in users, they're getting more numb to that by the hour.

Creating a degree of demand with a pinch of exclusivity on the other hand is secret sauce.

Land in SL at one point was hard to come by. LL just wouldn't "print" any more mainland. If you'd seen the prices on small waterfront plots compared to the vast empty mainland we have today you might see it in a different light.

On the other hand, it was possible for someone with no L$ to earn a few hundred thousand in a short amount of time.

Healthy economy not to be confused with China vs. U.S. furniture manufacturers, the latter being out of business now.

[Pamela Galli]

Exactly.

[Tiffy Vella]

Oh...BTW...I'm expecting someone to come along anytime soon and "Wallmart" this thread. I mean that in the same spirit as anyone "Godwinning" it.

So before you do it...don't...you argument is irrelevant

[Darrius Gothly]

Hitler is alive and well .. and working in the camera department at Wal-Mart.

(Don't shoot!! I was kidding!! He actually works in Automotive!)