Why is it ok to rip people off in SL?

[Locke Nider]

Usually any online services that has sometime type of trading+barter system(like Steam trading, MMOs, Ebay, etc), you can get penalized or banned for scamming people.  Yet in SL, it just a "residential dispute."

I don't understand why LL allows people to get away with this behavior.  I mean, surely that have access to chatlog in the system that allows them to who's scamming a person?

[Dilbert Dilweg]

You havent even supplied enough information here for anyone to be able to judge the issue . Perhaps you didnt report enough information to LL as well?

Ya gotta be careful who you deal with period just like RL. In RL you have to prove the preponderance of the evidence in court. Same in SL

 

And as a general note. It is NOT okay to rip anyone off in SL.

[Sassy Romano]

It's not ok to rip anyone off but i've been a merchant on Ebay who was "ripped off" by a customer who had no clue about the item they were buying and reported it as not working.  Ebay has you totally in their graps via Paypal, the merchant has no power of dispute as they usually rule in the buyers favour and just charge back regardless.

Nor can a merchant on Ebay give anything other than positive feedback now.  It's either nothing or positive.  That's not right either is it?

I've been merchant and buyer on both Ebay and SL and you get people who are dishonest on both sides so while it's irritating when there's a clear situation in our minds, it could be argued that LL stay out of it is the right thing.

One only had to look at the demise of Apez vending system which took money from people, even when LL had long since banned banks yet it functioned with an escrow account that "banked" funds and then failed to pay them out.  LL did nothing despite many calls that it was continuing to use the llGiveMoney script function to take money while trading fraudulently, something that LL "say" they treat seriously.

Just value the merchants with whom you establish a trusting relationship, it's a two way street.

[Perrie Juran]

As Dilbert stated, you haven't given us enough information to go on but as others have said, no, it is not OK to 'rip people off.'

There are four AR categories for fraud in SL.

Fraud > L$
Fraud > Land
Fraud > Pyramid scheme or chain letter
Fraud > US$

Now as to how Linden Lab applies these categories and in exactly what situations may be somewhat unclear.  If you think you have been defrauded (ripped off), you can report it.  LL may decide that what you reported is only an Resident to Resident dispute.   But I do know specifically of one girl who used to be an avid participant in the old forums who who was  perma-banned for defrauding someone.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote: 

In RL you have to prove the preponderance of the evidence in court. Same in SL

 

And as a general note. It is NOT okay to rip anyone off in SL.

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I love the phrase "preponderance of evidence."  No clue why - English LIt. undergrad., somewhat of a "wordsmith," and probably too much time watching Court TV. *Grins*

And what Dilbert said - it is not ok to scam someone in SL.  Whether they are brought to justice (court talk again) or not, it's still morally wrong.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

 

Nor can a merchant on Ebay give anything other than positive feedback now.  It's either nothing or positive.  That's not right either is it?

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Whoa!!!  I haven't purchased anything on eBay for years but back in the day I looked at the merchant's rating as a general guide.  That is...unbelievable it can now only be positive.

(Hit the enter button too quickly...)

Sassy posted: I've been merchant and buyer on both Ebay and SL and you get people who are dishonest on both sides so while it's irritating when there's a clear situation in our minds, it could be argued that LL stay out of it is the right thing.

I experienced the reverse in another *coughs* virtual world and will say I prefer LL stay out of pure resident-resident disputes; not talking about things that break the TOS. In that "other world" it is pretty much run by one person. (It has since been incorporated with 3 people listed as the corporation, but from what I understand, the founder's word is still "law.")

In my case, one of the residents who owned (at the time) 4 sims there loved to continuously bash SL in their forums.  As one who enjoys SL but, at the time, was considering opening my shop there as well, his constant bashing was annoying, and it wasn't just a casual "SL sucks" it was long, involved posts on the subject.  I posted one time that if people were considering trying out this vw, his posts could paint the world in a bad light if one thought he was representative of the residents.  I tried pointing out that many people enjoy both worlds.

His response was - If you love SL so much, then leave here.

Okkkaaaayyyyy.  I sent an IM to him inworld and said, You know what...I think I'll take your advice.

Next thing I know, I get an IM from the world's owner chastising me for "harassing" him and it was something she absolutely would not stand for.  She continued by saying that many of the people in (that world) had been burned in SL so it was natural for them to feel that way.  (Ok, feeling that way and posting lengthy "I hate SL diatribes" on the forums are two different things.) I got the impression that her IM was a veiled "warning."  That did it.  Not only did I not set up my business there, but did not remain a resident myself, and told several friends about the incident. I only step foot in that world now on request of a good friend.

So, yes, LL staying out of petty resident disputes is a good thing. (Not saying this is what your situation is.)

 

 

 

[Deb Palmer]

We have that same issue of positive or nothing being shepherded by some at LL as well when it comes to product reviews.  I recently purchased an item that was really bad.  I left a professional though negative review and was contacted inworld by the seller who told me that she has friends at LL who will remove a negative review.  They did so.  Internet commerce or not, a consumer has a right to have their voice, positive or negative heard.  Any other use of a "feedback system" leads to misrepresentation and fraud.

[Perrie Juran]

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Deb Palmer wrote:

We have that same issue of positive or nothing being shepherded by some at LL as well when it comes to product reviews.  I recently purchased an item that was really bad.  I left a professional though negative review and was contacted inworld by the seller who told me that she has friends at LL who will remove a negative review.  They did so.  Internet commerce or not, a consumer has a right to have their voice, positive or negative heard.  Any other use of a "feedback system" leads to misrepresentation and fraud.

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Now that is a conversation I'd love to see.  While I can't suggest that you do so, the Mods have allowed convo's with names redacted stand here.  Or you could post it elsewhere and link to it.

 

[Dillon Levenque]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Deb Palmer wrote:

We have that same issue of positive or nothing being shepherded by some at LL as well when it comes to product reviews.  I recently purchased an item that was really bad.  I left a professional though negative review and was contacted inworld by the seller who told me that she has friends at LL who will remove a negative review.  They did so.  Internet commerce or not, a consumer has a right to have their voice, positive or negative heard.  Any other use of a "feedback system" leads to misrepresentation and fraud.

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Now that is a conversation I'd love to see.  While I can't suggest that you do so, the Mods have allowed convo's with names redacted stand here.  Or you could post it elsewhere and link to it.

 

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I agree. The implication in the post is that an employee of LL is not only corrupt but so highly placed that said employee can edit Marketplace reviews on a whim. Seems to me that kind of statement needs some show of evidence.

[161488303349]

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Deb Palmer wrote:

We have that same issue of positive or nothing being shepherded by some at LL as well when it comes to product reviews.  I recently purchased an item that was really bad.  I left a professional though negative review and was contacted inworld by the seller who told me that she has friends at LL who will remove a negative review.  They did so.  Internet commerce or not, a consumer has a right to have their voice, positive or negative heard.  Any other use of a "feedback system" leads to misrepresentation and fraud.

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hmm!

check to see if the vendor actual deleted the listing with your review on it and then relisted the item. some vendors do that way. they not supposed to do that tho i dont think

the bit about the vendor telling you "i haz a linden friend who will jeopardise their employment at the lab at my request" is kinda wut wut ??? i think that person you buy of is full of it really

[Perrie Juran]

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16 wrote:

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Deb Palmer wrote:

We have that same issue of positive or nothing being shepherded by some at LL as well when it comes to product reviews.  I recently purchased an item that was really bad.  I left a professional though negative review and was contacted inworld by the seller who told me that she has friends at LL who will remove a negative review.  They did so.  Internet commerce or not, a consumer has a right to have their voice, positive or negative heard.  Any other use of a "feedback system" leads to misrepresentation and fraud.

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hmm!

check to see if the vendor actual deleted the listing with your review on it and then relisted the item. some vendors do that way. they not supposed to do that tho i dont think

the bit about the vendor telling you "i haz a linden friend who will jeopardise their employment at the lab at my request" is kinda wut wut ??? i think that person you buy of is full of it really

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You are correct, it is a violation of the Market Place TOS to relist an item like this and as I understand it from the Merchants Forum people can be and do get banned from selling on the Market Place.

 

I'm with you on the "wut wut ??? i think that person you buy of is full of it really" thinking.

Any Merchant can request that a review be removed if it is inaccurate, etc.  How thoroughly LL checks a review before removing it would be a whole other topic.