Reply
Honored Resident
Neural Blankes
Posts: 16
0 Kudos

Mesh tutorial insanity

I thought things were pretty bad when sculpted prims were introduced into SL, but it pales in comparison to mesh.

There are at least 5 different "rigged avatar" files out there, each one of them different form the other with the exception of the consistency of the bone names.  None of them upload properly.

So called "tutorials" which are avialable fall into one of two catagories: category A) Using software no-one can afford without owning a bank, or category B) Using Blender, which goes through a complete interface/backend/overall rewrite every month or so, thus rendering all previous tutorials and documentation invalid and of no practical use other than to say "well, it worked with that version"

This mass of useless, incorrect, or outdated information coupled with the lack of information from Linden Lab makes mesh nearly impossible to get into, even if you know how to use 3D software packages.

It would be nice if people would stop acting like paranoid hoarders with info on mesh, and start sharing more with the community.

Mesh has the potential to make SL into an amazing world, but you won't make any money off of it if you hoard your secrets, because there will wind up being so little mesh content that users will start to spend their money on traditional items.

 

/rant

Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,133
Registered: ‎09-09-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message

No one is hoarding. LL just needs to pay someone to collate the info. Because it is indeed very complicated, and there is not much centralized documentation.
Gaia Clary
Posts: 1,460
Registered: ‎06-30-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message

Don't you remember that it took almost 2 years to get the support for Sculpted prims (documentation and tools) into a good shape ? I must admit that i am mainly looking at Blender here, where we initially had a horrible workflow for sculpties paired with a horrible user interface in Blender. Only after the famous "Domino Scripts" appeared, things started to improve at tgat time. Actually i believe that Domino Marama should get a large incentive from Linden Labs for his effort ...

Well... Thats for the past. But in my opinion right now the situation is by far less drama, because Mesh is supported by all major 3D tools out of the box (Well you need a working Collada exporter, but that's all you need besides mastering your tool set).

However i agree about your issue with rigged meshes in general, and the Avatar skeleton in particular. The main problem here is (for me) that actually Blender gives us a hard time to survive with its horrible Collada support. I believe there are a few people who are trying to solve the Blender Collada issues right now, and one "solution" was the hacked armature, which works "only" for Blender 2.60.

And it is just not true that Blender's User interface changes every month in an uncontrolled way. it improves and IMHO it gets less nasty with every release. Actually i am very pleased with what we have at the moment, especially tomorrow (today) when Blender 2.61 comes out, there will be a LOT of improvement (and ok, there will be a lot of awesome new stuff, but most of it won't be relevant for Mesh and Sculptes (at this moment...)

So that's my opinion. But well,  i might be biased a bit :smileyhappy:

 

the mesh weaver
Member
Maeve Balfour
Posts: 273
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

[ Edited ]

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message

Mesh isn't something you just walk into, pick up and start making masterpieces from the word go. As Pamela said, it's a complex subject in general, and NOT just for SL. Just google 3D mesh and you will see how massive a subject it is.

I suggest you find a modeling program you are comfortable with AND can afford, LEARN it properly, LEARN the general concepts of 3D... and THEN start making mesh for SL. There is no other way to do this efficiently. If you can't be bothered to put in the effort to at least learn the basic concepts, you are facing an uphill battle from the very beginning. I cannot stress this strongly enough.

There are PLENTY of either free or low-cost 3D programs out there - try the demos, find one you are comfortable with in regards to interface, and stick with it. Myself, I use a mixture of low-cost 3D programs (personal preference mostly, for a variety of tasks - some are better than others at different stages of the process). And despite its quirks, Blender is free AND it has recently undergone a major facelift in interface design, so is much less painful to use than previous iterations.

And the reason for my harsh tone? Your accusation of people like myself being "paranoid hoarders with info on mesh". Do you even bother reading these forums? Have you even attempted looking at HOW MUCH information regulars in here freely share with others? These forums are a goldmine of information, if you make the effort to actually LOOK. I know your post wasn't directed at me personally, but I take affront to your general tone. Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to be helpful in here.

:matte-motes-mad:

/rant end.

EDIT: Apologies for my rather snippy remarks Neural. I received your message inworld, and can understand your frustration. Neither of us worded our posts very well here, and as such things have been blown out of proportion. For the record, definitely no bad feelings on my part now.

Exploring my creative side inside of SL
Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,133
Registered: ‎09-09-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

Reply to Maeve Balfour - view message

There is a wealth of information in this forum, as well as some other locations. People have been more than generous with their time.  However, having to sift through forum posts to find relevant information is in my experience less than efficient.

 

At the User Group meeting it was stated that while documentaion was on LL radar, they "did not have time" to do it. Well, as has been pointed out many times, and in this very thread, there are residents who have made huge contributions to the fund of knowledge on this and related topics, and if any of them have time to compile a central support and troubleshooting guide, LL might want to consider offering them the job.

 

Advisor
Chosen Few
Posts: 1,744

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

[ Edited ]

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message


Neural Blankes wrote:

I thought things were pretty bad when sculpted prims were introduced into SL, but it pales in comparison to mesh.


Really?  Let's see...

 

  • Sculpties are entirely unique to SL, and literally no one in this planet knew how to make them before they were introduced.  Mesh, on the other hand, has been the standard way 3D content has been created for decades now, which means every 3D artist in the entire world knows how to do it.
  • Information on creating sculpties exists in only a small handful of places, while information on mesh modeling can be found on practically on any street corner.
  • The selection of available tools for making sculpties is limited to just a small handful of programs for which people have written specialized scripts, while the choice of tools for making mesh models is unlimited.

 

Yup, you're right.  Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad. Let me guess, you went to sleep with gum in your mouth, and woke up with gum in your hair, and then you tripped over your skateboard, and you dropped your sweater in the sink, all because of mesh, right? 

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

There are at least 5 different "rigged avatar" files out there, each one of them different form the other with the exception of the consistency of the bone names.  None of them upload properly.


None of them upload properly? So the rigged mesh items that are on the grid somehow just magically appeared there without having been uploaded?  Neat trick.  How does that work?  Oh right, aliens.  Yeah, we talked about that in another thread already.

All this time, the skeleton I use has been pretending to upload just fine.  See, I really thought the fact that it was working actually meant it was working.  Thanks for letting me know it was only fooling.

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

So called "tutorials" which are avialable fall into one of two catagories:


Two categories, huh?  All those countless millions of tutorials on the Web, all the books on polygonal modeling in every bookstore and library in the world, all those classes taught at colleges, universities, and training centers, all those DVD's you can purchase from any number of digital arts educational institutions, they all fit into just two categories?  Really?  All the years I've been doing this, I had no idea it was all so simple and neat.

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

A) Using software no-one can afford without owning a bank


Wow, I own a bank?  Cool, where is it?  Is it the one near my house?  I hope so.  There's this really cute teller that works there, who's always so nice.  I can't wait to tell her I'm her boss, and I'm gonna give her a promotion.

I'm puzzled about one thing, though.  How come it doesn't say "Comes with free bank" anywhere on the checkout page when you pay for Maya?  That's a little misleading, isn't it?  I mean if that's what you get, they should at least tell you about it.  I'll definitely be taking this up with Autodesk.  Thanks for letting me know.

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

B) Using Blender, which goes through a complete interface/backend/overall rewrite every month or so, thus rendering all previous tutorials and documentation invalid and of no practical use other than to say "well, it worked with that version"


Complete rewrite every month?  Wow, that's impressive.  Those programmers over at the Blender Foundation must have one of those nifty time bubble devices from Stargate, so they can spend years writing a new program from scratch inside the dome, while only a month goes by outside. 

If that's the case, then I guess your troubles will soon be over, since they'll all likely be dying of old age inside of a year, then.  That'll show them sombitches.

In the mean time, here I was, thinking that the presence of all the dozens of other viable options besides Blender meant in case someone doesn't like Blender, there were dozens of other viable options.  Thanks for informing me that those don't actually exist.

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

This mass of useless, incorrect, or outdated information coupled with the lack of information from Linden Lab makes mesh nearly impossible to get into, even if you know how to use 3D software packages.


Impossible to get into?  Thanks for telling me.  See, all this time I thought I WAS into it.  I mean, I make 3D models for a living and all, and I've been uploading a bunch of 'em to SL.  I really thought that meant I was in.  But I guess I must not be, since that would be impossible.  Thanks for setting me straight.

I suppose I should go tell all the other people I know who have been under the same impression that they've been using mesh successfully that they've really just been imagining things.  I really appreciate you freely spreading your superior knowledge like this.  It's so helpful.

I also think it's fantastic that you took the time to alert us all to the fact that the entire Internet, plus every book ever written, every video ever produced, every class currently being taught, and every help file in every program is useless, incorrect, and outdated.  See, all this time I thought my shelf full of books and training DVD's actually contained information.  I didn't realize they were just there to keep that shelf weighed down, so my house wouldn't fall off the earth.  I'll make sure and keep 'em there, now that I know.

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

It would be nice if people would stop acting like paranoid hoarders with info on mesh, and start sharing more with the community.


Yeah, you're so right.  All those countless thousands of hours I've spent on this forum, freely volunteering information to anyone and everyone who's cared to ask for it, none of that actually happened either.  I was really just a paranoid hoarder all this time.  I'm so grateful to you for clearing me of my delusions.

I do now have to wonder about something.  I'm sure you can explain it to me, oh great wellspring of wisdom and certitude.  If mesh is impossible to get into, what exactly is there to hoard?   I know it must be something, but clearly it's not information about mesh, because we've already established that that's all useless, incorrect, and outdated.  Oh, wait, I've got it.  It's my collection of used chewing gum wrappers that I thought was non-existent up until two seconds ago.  Yup, believe you me, I guard that thing like a crack-addicted swarm of killer bees guards their queen. 

Oh, and for the record, I'm not paranoid.  Those Lectroids from the eighth dimension really are out to get me.  Is it safe?

 


Neural Blankes wrote:

Mesh has the potential to make SL into an amazing world, but you won't make any money off of it if you hoard your secrets, because there will wind up being so little mesh content that users will start to spend their money on traditional items.


Once again, you're so right.  OK, no more secrets.  I once injured my back while having sex, and when the paramedics arrived, I told them I'd been lifting furniture.  Ooh does it ever feel good to get that out in the open.

"It's a big universe. Everything happens somewhere."
- The Doctor
Nalates Urriah
Posts: 2,801
Kudos: 308
Registered: ‎03-26-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity - we just talked about that

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message

In the Content Creation/Mesh Upload group on 12/12 we were discussing getting more documentation in place on the wiki. The Lindens are busy and they have a few (3?) people working on documentation.

However, users can edit and add to the wiki. So, we need some people to collect the best threads in the forums and build a set of links into a wiki page for best practices.

Over time users may write best practices summaries. 

Expecting the Lindens to do everything often seems reasonable, I just know better.

Honored Resident
StoneDwarf
Posts: 77
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

Reply to Chosen Few - view message

Complete rewrite every month? Wow, that's impressive. Those programmers over at the Blender Foundation must have one of those nifty time bubble devices from Stargate, so they can spend years writing a new program from scratch inside the dome, while only a month goes by outside.

Actually, you are incorrect, Chosen Few. It's called a Time Dilation Device. :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

A device capable of altering the speed at which time passes in an area around itself. The first Ancient time dilation technology was in the Pegasus galaxy, where the Lanteans had constructed a refuge on a planet known as the Cloister, which had one entrance. The entire 'valley' region was engulfed by the time dilation field that accelerated time within its position in order to allow the inhabitants to learn how to ascend.

The field was a potent defensive mechanism as it prevents objects from entering the bubble from orbit, as they would be destroyed from the stresses generated by the field. The device is powered by a ZPM. A second form was later seen in the Milky Way, used by Morgan le Fay as one of her tests for persons searching for the Sangraal. This model had a set field around the location of the mountain, which almost froze objects that entered the field and was the reason why many human villagers were lost on the quest as they had become trapped in the field. However, as part of the test, a set path is present that allowed movement without being compromised. And a third was installed by the Asgard into the Odyssey, (along with an Asgard core and many other systems) which Colonel Carter used in Unending to protect the Odyssey from the Ori, while she could find a way to isolate the Asgard core from the hyperdrive and shut the core down as it was giving off a signal the Ori could trace through sub-space.

A similar device was discovered a few years earlier. This was much larger, which dialed several planets through the Stargate to form a subspace bubble. The machine was flawed, as it only creates a short-term time loop, which forces the planets that the device dialed to relive the same ten hours again and again. It is powered by the ionized atoms in the atmosphere caused by the geo-magnetic storms on the planet. Two capacitors start to hum and emit static electricity that is channeled to the Stargate. The Ancients originally created it to stop a plague that was wiping them out, although it eventually only forced them to keep doing the same thing over and over. In the end, they were forced to shut down the device.

Member
Sophia Trefusis
Posts: 108
0 Kudos

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

Reply to Neural Blankes - view message

I tried rigging a mesh following a girls tutorial on youtube. I managed to follow as far as step 3..then it turned into something similar to the da vinci code @_@

~Imagination Rules My World~


Drongle McMahon
Posts: 2,627
Topics: 38
Registered: ‎02-25-2009

Re: Mesh tutorial insanity

[ Edited ]

Reply to StoneDwarf - view message

See - you really are paranoid!  Just how long have you been hoarding all that information I wonder? Congratulations to Neural for finally getting it out of you.