social islands

[wherorangi]

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ChinRey wrote:

It was a concentrated, distillied, simplified version of Second Life. It was a miniature SL where newcomers could practice the essential skills whilst having a good time and without being overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the Big Thing.

The new Social Island has much more a formal school feeling to it. Even the architecture there emphasizes that. The newcomers are sent through a path from station to station where they are told all everything they need to know about Second Life. But they better listen carefully cause they're only told once. How much do you think they remember of it all next time they log on?

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on the first

this model was one used back in the day. Spawn at the starter OI which was divided into 4 quarters, each with its own build. A city block, a castle thingy, a beachy thing and I cant remember the other. All of them with inworld tuts. v1.x viewer which had zero inline and context help, unlike v3-4.x has now. the OIP pathway style preceded this quarter style as I remember

could exit 2 ways out. Direct into the big world. Or go to the starter Help Island (similar/same build as HIP now). Whichever way we went, we could never go back. Same if went to the starter HI. Once we left the starter HI we could never go back there either

often would be standing at OIP, HIP or a WA and some newish person would teleport in and ask how they could go back to the starter island. And they were often really disappointed that they could not ever. "I never finished the tuts, I dunno what im doing now. I met some people there and now I cant ever see them anymore. I didnt know to friend them. I dunno how to contact them. etc"

finally after all this time (in 2016) with this new starter island setup, LL finaaaally clicked that this is quite important to new people. Able to go back to the start just by pressing the Home button, to a familiar setting and familiar people in the first hours/days of our journey. It was a kinda o.m.g srsly woohoo! moment for me when I pressed the Home and it happened

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on the second

the starter orientation experience HUD autoattaches as well, so we can carry on with it as we choose

the context help available in the v4.x viewer is also a godsend I think, has been a work in progress since v2.x and is pretty good now I think. This combined with the starter HUD has really lessened the dependency on others (mentors and helpy helpertons) to learn the basics of the viewer and navigation and basic interaction with inworld objects

i notice the effect of this with new people interacting with the helpy helpertons at this starter island

the opening chat initiated by the new people, is way more social than it ever used to be. Like hi, whats this game about, where you from, and stuff like that

whereas previously their opening chat was way more oriented toward problems. Like Hi, how do I do this, how do I do that, how do I change my clothes, why have I got 6 hairs on my head, I cant find whatever in inventory, whats the inventory, etc

 

 

[wherorangi]

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ChinRey wrote:

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wherorangi wrote:

with the exit portals I would make 3 of the gates bigger than the others, to emphasis them more

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Oh, the portal park. They did remember to fix that, didn't they? That was the other HUGE error at the old Social Island.

You went through the Role play gate and you were either sent to an empty building where apparently somebody tried to make an rp sim hub many years ago or to a fairy community who had asked LL over and over again to be removed from teh category since they weren't an sp place at all.

If you went thrugh the Music gate you always ended up in an empty shopping mall where you could faintly see a just as empty techon club in the distance.

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whoever in LL is in charge of this, still needs to do more work on those portal exit gates (for the reasons you have mentioned). What I mentioned earlier is what I would do if was me

[wherorangi]

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ChinRey wrote:

I go for the peer-to-peer approach even when teaching small children. That's the educational culture where I live. I didn't list that as a "fundamental principle" since I know there are lots of couhtries that still use the old authoritarian school model and they seem to get good results there too - there is always more than one way up a mountain.

 

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yes. There is certainly some situations where the formal tutor-to-student relationship must be maintained if the student is to actually learn what it is that is being taught. Like formal building, scripting, roleplay, etc, classes. The power relationship (you and I) needs to be maintained if the students are to get thru the lesson(s), where they come out of it knowing what it is they were there for

for sure there can be a lot of camaderie and fun even in these more formal settings, but the students are there to learn. And need to be disciplined in their learning approach (and understanding of the power relationship) in the class time available to the students and the teacher

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like you say is not a either/or. Each approach largely depends on the situation and the expectancies of the students and tutors

[wherorangi]

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ChinRey wrote:

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... previous Social Islands. It wasn't a school or a formal tutorial at all - or at least it never felt like it. It was a concentrated, distillied, simplified version of Second Life. It was a miniature SL where newcomers could practice the essential skills whilst having a good time and without being overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the Big Thing.

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i just want to pick up on this. It goes back to what OP said as well

OP and you as well, mention that the previous-to-now starter islands were mini-SLs, and as OP alludes they were happy there and want it back and want to stay there, or at least spend most of their time there

some history to have a context

the problem for LL with mini-SL orientation islands has always been, every time they do it, is the numbers of people who never leave them. They start there, are happy there, and never leave for SL proper

is why back in the day, when we exited we could never go back. But what happened back then was people who couldnt go back and wanted to, would create a new account, spawn again and then never leave

some people would regularly login and still be on the same mini-SL starter island, 1 and 2 years later even. The island is not only their home, is also the whole world to them

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the issue with this (for a provider) is that the stay-at-homes take up slots for actual incoming new people, which means that more starter islands have to be provided than would otherwise be necessary

yes the provider wants to provide a go Home safe place for new people in their first hours/days. Yes the provider is ok with helpy helpertons popping in now and again. But no! the provider doesnt want us to live there for evermore. The provider needs us to go out into SL proper after we have been oriented, and live out there in the big world. Particularly also when the provider does have to make a profit somehow

so a way to do that is to make the starter island interesting (scene-wise) only for brand new people, which the current island actually is, when they first spawn on it. And yet within a few hours/days even for them, it gets a bit boring (the tipping point) to stay on the starter island, or to even ever return there from the big world, after the tipping point is reached

basically after we have completed the HUD quest and sampled some of the big world thru the portals, then having seen one marble staircase and one blade of grass, we have seen them all. The big world out there is more attractive than the seeming never-ending piles of marble and grass all over this place, as we now see it, not being brandnew anymore

 

[ChinRey]

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wherorangi wrote:

the problem for LL with mini-SL orientation islands has always been, every time they do it, is the numbers of people who never leave them. They start there, are happy there, and never leave for SL proper

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Oh, victim of its own success then? Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

But it shoudn't be solved by nerfing the intro, it should be solved by improving the next episode, and that brings us back to that portal park. I haven't been in SL for that long but still long enough to have seen four different newcomer entry systems. The only constant through them all has been the portal park and that has always been the weakest link.

[Pamela Galli]

That is illuminating, thank you. In late 2007 when I showed up, the problem was that I could not see a way off the island for several days. It was pretty boring. I always wonder if that was due more to my own cluelessness or LL's.

 

[wherorangi]

they were pretty terrible the exits on the OIs, the landmark givers, quite small signs and not always easy to understand (by implication) what they are or what their purpose is/was. The HIs were better bc they had the giant green Exit sign, hard to miss. But even then it was quite difficult sometimes to actually get out

sometimes they wouldnt work bc bork. But also the new person just had to know what a landmark was. Like they would get a auto-open dialog when it did work, but was just another dialog on top the dozens of other dialogs that they already got from doing other stuff. Which people tended to ignore/cancel bc dunno what thats about. oh! well nvm. click and close

the portals are way better I think in these times, at least for those who have played other games and already understand how portals work

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in my case and other peoples as well, we would run a shuttle service. Specially with ESLs. Friend them and get the IM working with them. Then teleport to SL Spain, Brasil, Germany, France, Russia, Japan, China, Korea, etc etc. Then with the IM still open send then a teleport offer, chatting to them in the IM, hoping that between the two of us they could work out to accept the teleport offer

i did this kinda sorta again last Saturday. I popped into this private newbie helpy place that's been on the grid since forever. Was about half-dozen people there

end up chatting to a couple of newish people, on the line dance. One newish of about 2 months who turned out had a LH, the other brandnew. Had to work with the brandnew person so they could get on the line dance but we worked it out. So all good

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there was a live music event coming up which I wanted to go to. I really like the performer so I said to these two that I was going and would they like to come. So they go sure yes please. So off I went and teleport shuttle them in

managed to get them on to my dance hud after a bit. One person couldn't hear the stream, so worked that out with them. Managed to get them to line up on the dance (which took a while but still we managed it)

they end have a pretty good time. The 3 of us are synch dancing. I am chatting away to them in the IM, like you do at concerts. Was a great performer, lots of friendly people. And the venue owner/promoter who was present seemed pretty pleased that I brought two people in. One of whom (the LH owner) tipped the venue

the reason I get new people to synch dance on my HUD in these settings, is so that they are seen by others present to not be lonely newbies. That they do actual have a friend, that they do know how to make friends, and that they are nice people

 

[Pamela Galli]

That makes me want to go try to help a noobie. I understand that the mentor program became too drama filled for LL to deal with, but I have to think that ultimately it is mentoring that will cause retention. 

[Phil Deakins]

Nothing to do today?

Help a noob and show the way.

 

Have you helped your noob today?

 

[ChinRey]

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wherorangi wrote:

the portals are way better I think in these times, at least for those who have played other games and already understand how portals work

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Oh, don't get me wrong, the portal park idea as a concept is absolutely brilliant! The problem is it's implementation. The selection of destinations needs to be much better and the whole system also needs a much better differentitation.

If you go through the chat protal you should be taken to a place where you can meet people. And not only that: people who are actually willing to chat with strangers.

If you go through the music portal... Well, what are the chances a techno music disco is what a newcomer who chooses that portal wants and expects? Even if it hadn't been empty I mean.

[ChinRey]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Have you helped your noob today?

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Every day. Unless they've changed things recently, you can't get back to Learnning Island where you first started. Social Island, yes, Learning Island, no.

If you try, you're sent to the old Help Islands instead and then you kind'a drift off onto the neighbor sims and as often as not end up at Coniston.

[Pamela Galli]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Nothing to do today?

Help a noob and show the way.

 

Have you helped your noob today?

 

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I do always have something to do, the same thing every day: work. I have taken  helping breaks before but it has been a while and was on my Pamela avi, which was not a good idea. 

[wherorangi]

yes. We defo agree about where/how the portals direct people

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the destination guide in the viewer is available as well, so I think quite few people exit that way as well. And is more obvious than the old way

in the old way there were LMs in the Library which people could use to exit also. But being buried in the library this wasnt as obvious to people

[wherorangi]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I do always have something to do, the same thing every day: work. I have taken  helping breaks before but it has been a while and was on my Pamela avi, which was not a good idea. 

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i agree that is not a good idea to use your work account for this. Brandnew new people helping is more social than pretty much anything, even when theres maybe some technicals for them to learn/understand in what might come out of it

also I think that is about talking to people, not so much doing stuff with them. As a merchant you do talk to people quite a lot. Quite a few of them newish. Explaining/showing them how to do what they need to do in terms of what they are wanting

is the act of communication I think thats pretty much the most important. That newish people see that there are others in the world who are responsive to them. Whether that be work oriented or non work oriented 

[Innula Zenovka]

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ChinRey wrote:

I had a look at  the Social Islands now and it's not just the beach and not just no. 3. It's everything. They've ruined it, they've completely ruined it. This is going to hurt the retention rate badly.

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I don't know where you get all this from.

Recently I watched the Desigining Worlds show about the new Learning Islands and Social Islands.   It doesn't seem to be on YouTube but you can watch a recording of it at Designing Worlds DW306 - The New User Experience.      

In it, Saffia Widdershins and Elrik Merlin discuss with Patch Linden (from about 06.05 to about 08.45) how LL used a process called "AB testing" to send selected cohorts of new users to different versions of the Learning Island and Social Island regions, and compared their reactions and the retention rate.

As a result, says Patch at about 08:20, this particular version of Learning Island and Social Island is the most successful ever of "all our versions of the onboarding experience" and is some three to four times more successful than the most successful of all the previous versions.

Whatever your subjective impressions may be, it would seem that LL do actually monitor the success of their various versions of the new user experience, and revise and improve things in the light of what they learn from the various metrics and the feedback they receive from new and current/old users alike, along with soliciting feedback from the new user help groups, mentors, and so on.   He mentions this slighly later, at about 11:30.