Arielle Popstar

It is so confusing when someone's responses to a post and their posted words, don't align. Also when a poster continues to do what you asked them not to, is that not the hallmarks of a narcissist?

The first and foremost kindness is to acknowledge another person/avatar, especially when spoken to. Blocking people automatically forfeits that ability and makes any other acts of kindness moot.

So he/she doesn't do it a third time?

Don't ask 😄

I have only reported one person and she knows I did because I told her. We have reasonably civil conversations today though we can still disagree on things pretty hard. I defended myself against another reporter which resulted in a time out for both us. Other then I won't back down from posting but I do take care not to be personal unless if they do first. That can be dangerous but some people only can debate by being personal.

Lot of people out there that would pay good money get access to a legit test to determine whether they were bonafied alcoholic or not!

Yep we qualify those as heavy users/drinkers who though having the appearance of an addict/alcoholic can with sufficient reason give up or quit without too much trouble. The real alcoholic however will not be able to.

No semantics about it, surrender is the basic premise. Without it one doesn't even surrender to the idea they are alcoholic and that their life has become unmanageable. As long as one thinks they have a smidgeon of power to resist the first drink, they would not surrender to the need for the rest of the Steps to the degree necessary. Maybe one could find a different program that works as you envision but I haven't heard of one that was successful though that's not to say there isn't one.

Tbh It's been very rare never that I have seen you say anything I thought was stupid or silly. Some things I might not have agreed with but never to a point of eye rolling.

Yeah I can relate to that. After the first 6 months I wanted to rewrite the Big Book too. It took the next 30 or so years to realize it is pretty much on the mark.

For some it is the best way, for others it isn't. Discerning the difference requires wisdom and experience and even then it is prone to error.

Sometimes it is really because one realizes another is harming themselves by their own thoughts and attitudes. The problem is though that informing someone is really hard to do in a way that doesn't appear in some ways self serving.

Noone is interested in those sorts of threads!

Sure, doing an inventory of where one could do things better is a good start and really only possible to do honestly when one starts to understand that others love them unconditionally and they will not be rejected or abandoned because they discovered some not so nice things about themselves. One needs a good support structure when going on such a journey that is why I am a firm believer of self help and 12 step groups. Self love only comes after a while when one is on a journey of self improvement and the realization comes how others loved that person first, in spite of their problems and inconsistencies. True self love only comes after, not before. One cannot hate themselves for years and then suddenly make an about face and start to love themselves unless it comes externally first imo. It might just be the realization that one was loved all along and wasn't acknowledged but just like a newborn is dependent on the love of the mother to grow and thrive, we as adults require the same.

I learn more from the darkness then the light unfortunately. The darkness I equate with pain and those are the lessons I remember the most and do the most to avoid in future.

Perhaps the basic problem is seeing these types of "disagreeable" people as being just the more "challenging" ones. Some feel it just wonderful that everything they say is agreed with by all but the best lessons and learning is from those who challenge ones words and actions when one believes they are golden and they are now incensed that there is someone out there who doesn't think they are the best thing since sliced bread? How does that affect ones self esteem and worth? Is that perhaps the real crux of the problem and is avoidance of those types, the real solution?

I still see in your story a "like attracting like" in the sense that the griefer group shared a general theme and the Kirtan group the same but different theme. That the griefer group attended, could be just a desire to disrupt or it could be an unconscious curiosity to try to absorb and understand what the Kirtan group had that they didn't. It wouldn't be the first example of those who came to scoff, stayed to partake. Requires kid gloves to be sure but is possible. Nothing happens in the universe by mistake as it is said in slightly altered words.

As in turning the other cheek? Could be. Years ago when I was early in my recovery journey, I regularly spoke with this old codger who had been at it 25 years at the time. He would regularly say things about how life was and I would vehemently disagree with him until I started to realize that given some time, I would come to understand what he was saying and wind up agreeing with him even though we no longer discussed what he said. He opened my mind up to the possibility of something and then left it to me to reflect and meditate on. After a few times I stopped arguing with him and would just say that though I didn't see his point right now, I would keep it in mind until I did and sure enough, a few days, weeks or months, I would suddenly have an ah ha! moment where I understood what he said.

On reflection I wonder if as in how like attracts like, disagreeable people attract disagreeable people? If one is being attacked by disagreeable people, is it possible that one is attracting that to themselves by being disagreeable in some form?

Perhaps you missed the undercurrent. No biggie.

Just a good test of who feels most uncomfortable with a silence and needs to break it by saying something inane. It is a great test in R/L.

Think he meant you since you been giving your opinion at 3 times the rate of anyone else in this and almost every other thread.

What is "normal" is that we move on to another thread, not have it closed down. That's a new thing.

I thought it was worthwhile because I at least know now, it's not me!

You did start the topic and are therefore in some ways responsible for steering into a safe zone. I look at your threads as being like market research questionnaires. People who get their threads shut down are likely not to get as much involvement subsequent times because who wants to spend time thinking up an answer when the OP is only going to get the thread closed anyway?