[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

Again, enough of the excuses.

Ever since Windows XP (or perhaps slightly later) important system folders have been hidden away from the users. It is nothing new nor does it take much to learn how to get around or deal with.

My present phone is still 'stock' - no rooting or such - and I can still access the majority of the file system using the file manager it came with. Directories outside of this selection/purview can be accessed via ADB/PC if need be and newsflash for you, the majority of users won't have a need to do so. An App developer might however.

The most locked down device I own is a Quest 2 HMD. You have to go through hoops to enable Developer Mode on it if you want to 'sideload' any applications or do anything beyond what basic functions Meta allows (there's a culprit for you - walled gardens/locked down devices). iPhones are even worse as far as this goes.

So yep - find a different excuse/scapegoat.

[Is PIOF essentially "Age Verification"?]

Seriously? People are wondering how the heck a pre-teen or teen can get away with using their parent's credit cards in this day and age?

It's simple: The parents do not ask many questions. In some cases the pre-teen/teen in question will ask if they can use the card for a game subscription/transaction and the parents will allow it without any real questions or research.

They'll see a transaction registered to Tillia and shrug, remembering that they authorized it earlier and not bother to dig into it.

Welcome to the modern age - it has little to do with their personal finances unless said situation involves a fixed and incredibly limited income.

Oh yes and when I was younger? I knew several in my age bracket whose parents were even more laid back! Some of those people later grew up to either be entitled, spoiled arses or they grew out of it and learned from their parent's mistakes.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

Oh for  ... What kind of absolute BS was that?

Android applications utilize a preset directory wherein a downloaded item is sent to, with a fair few applications actually double checking this or requiring you set it yourself. The directory structure is also  labeled in such a manner as to make finding items none too difficult with the exceptions being the installed apps themselves/their APKs or system level files.

Modern PC applications can do the same thing, if set up that way and only pop up the dialog as a confirmation in such cases.

Still not that difficult to learn how to use the directory system from that starting point - it has not been done away with entirely and the situation is being misrepresented here (has been for quite a while too) - enough.

Find a different, more truthful argument.

Oh and while it is fresh in my mind. .. Millenials did not cause it, many of us grew up with Windows PCs and/or even the Apple IIe. Many of us are in our 40's at this point. Out of here with that BS too.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

I use two bodies (tried oh so many in the past) and due to the nature of my forms, oh so many different heads, tails and other parts.

If you are having trouble with just the one body, head and a selection of clothing then I honestly do not know what I can say about that and remain withn guidelines.

Oh yes - it was not any easier in years past either, not back before Mesh Bodies. Back then you had to deal with even MORE if you weren't using a Human form.

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

Ah yes ... Changing the name on the announcement to match the account name as opposed to the real person is such a scandal that demands one go digging up the original ...

Get a grip people.

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

Well would you look at that ... Fifty pages (which I have not even gotten into the thirties yet) of thread, essentially going exactly as I've suspected it would (with some of the exact BS 'arguments' being made across a bevy of semi-related topics) ...

All sparked by what amounts to a tabloid article that could have been addressed well enough with a boilerplate announcement and a blackout on it from there.

Ah well. Hopefully people have worked it out of their systems.

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Peeve: It's predictable and boring when the same voices pop up to push an agenda and gleefully declare the end is nigh, through crocodile tears.

Unfortunately in this particular case we may well be looking at an end of sorts for some. No, not the types that are already banned under the ToS but it being extended further out or impacting segments of the user base that most here seem to think aren't even on the radar or firing range.

There are rather valid concerns that have been voiced - some of those doing so are the sorts I'd usually peg as being trollish at best in most situations - that many seem to want to brush off because it does not affect them in any way to begin with or because they refuse to believe things could ever happen in such a way as to affect anyone other than those already banned per ToS.

The Witch Hunt that started quite some time ago thanks to a particular piece of news never stopped. it died down, leaving only the most vocal Hunters alongside the most vocal of the Edge Case/Not Helping Matters types in the spotlight.

That will change. For the worse I fear.

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

With what I am seeing thus far concerning the latest bit of drama news: Let the Witch Hunt resume begin!

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

.... Second Life is the product. Linden Lab is the company.

Stop bloody saying things like "We will have to wait and see what SL/Second Life does ..." when you mean the bloody company!

[Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.]

... Is it really that difficult for some to comprehend when to stop their comments?

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

@Persephone Emerald: My response regarding the relevance of older programming languages had to do with an attempt at making an analogy between knowing said older languages and a directory structure such as one finds in the Second Life Inventory or in PCs - it was not relevant nor accurate whatsoever.

22 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

What's all this talk of generations?

If we want to get into interface trends it has little to do with generations, it's largely about phones and mobile devices where you will rarely if ever see the directory structure. I know enough older people to know what computer skills or knowledge of things like a hierarchical file system they once had have been thrown out of the window by the emergence of IOS and Android as their primary operating systems.

PCs do not utilize iOS or Android and (at least with most Android phones) such devices do still have file managers/browsers which do still utilize some form of directory structure/system presentation, albeit more in the form of a web browser style these days (my current phone has the current working path across the top).

To the casual, modern user ... yes, very few see or utilize such systems these days - a mistake if I am being honest in my thoughts as such exemplifies the over simplification I've mentioned before.

Think of me what you will but I rather dislike such oversimplification as to me it is another step closer to what should be an absurdity: Things being so simplified that if it takes more steps than pushing a singular button, people will be stumped at best and panic completely/break down at worst. There's a careful balance that ought to be maintained.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Just to clarify, I don't think the inventory itself needs a massive change and I'm certainly not trying to convince you it does. What I'm saying is overall, SL could benefit from making itself a bit more familiar to potential new users in general. What that looks like, I don't know. I play way too many games, each with wildly different systems and ways of handling that, so it's impossible for me to guess.

I agree with you that SL's needs are pretty complex and I don't know what an up-to-date refresh would even look like. I'm thankful it's not my job to figure that out, that's for sure. 😂

I will bow out, though, as I didn't intend to pile on and the convo appears to be going...places.

 🏃‍♀️ 💨

No worries.

In all honesty I really should not be bothering to respond to some of those I have responded to thus far - they've shown in the past that they're the sort to champion "change for the sake of it" (no real meaning whatsoever to such a change, no worth to said changes).

I am welcome to be proven wrong but for that to happen, the changes would need to be implemented and not be so drastic as to cause further problems.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

In all fairness you are 20 or so years my junior, so there is hope yet.

Unless you are close to or above the average retirement age (in the US at the least) then you're quite a bit off on your presumption of my age/the supposed age gap between us.

I was six when the Berlin Wall fell - to use a historical event.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

Amazing how many straws people will grasp at ....

ETA: To say nothing of their presumptuous attitudes.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

5 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

It's completely comparable. All you're telling me is that you have no idea how the next generation are actually using technology, or the knowledge they actually need to achieve the equivalent of what we have today.

Ah yes, how nice of you to read your own bias into my words.

No - it isn't.

Move on, spend your energy elsewhere.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I get that, but you could apply that to almost anything nowadays, unfortunately. How many people know how to not only use, but replace the ribbon on a typewriter? How many know how to use a fax machine? How many know how to do transcription with proper formatting and timestamps? Proofreading marks? Math without a calculator (hell I sucked at this even when I had to know it)? I've had jobs in recent history that required I learn all of this, so I'm sure at least some of it is still around, but would younger people know about some of that? Likely nah. It's depressing when you think about it, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Heck, for all we know, Windows 12 will yeet the directory system into the sun and go with a full app interface (ew) or something.

... Typewriters? Fax machines? Transcription?

As you've stated, there are jobs that require such.

I'm not looking to keep going around and around on it while people try to find some example or other such thing that will work to explain why the present directory structure of the inventory needs to change (it doesn't) or to try and change my mind on it (not happening).

Save yourself the time.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

2 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

No, I think you're just lacking critical thought. But I'll spell it out for you:

The technology of 20+ years ago is not as relevant today as it was then, and the people of today want to use the technology of today, not the technology of yesterday.

Oh no, I have the ability to think critically.

I also have the ability to discern relevance - which there was none in bringing up programming languages of the past, at all.

Knowing how to use and navigate a directory structure is not whatsoever comparable.

Nice try.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It is the Linden's job to make this world easier to navigate and interact with. There is a slew of things they could do but fail to do as we can see by bug reports and feature requests.

That's nice.

This isn't one of them.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

Just now, Extrude Ragu said:

Yes, I have original thoughts and draw parallels from the world of programming. Your point is..?

That should be obvious enough but I'll spell it out: The analogy/parallel holds no water here.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Not my job, let the Lindens earn their keep. 

'You' issues are your job to solve.

Solve it or move on - it is not a Linden's job to hold your hand.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

No one has mentioned programming languages. No one - except you.

No one has mentioned AM Radio. No one - except you.

Knowing how to navigate and use a directory structure is a basic skill - beginning and end.

Those systems you want Linden Lab to look at using that are present in other places? Those places were purpose built around such systems. Want those systems? Either go use them or go and build a competitor to SL that uses them. An actual competitor with all the permissivness and relative freedom that Second Life has.

Don't want to do that? Well then buckle up, crack open a book or web page and learn something.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I totally get what you're saying. I don't think we're in danger of losing the knowledge of how to navigate a directory structure, though. Games and virtual worlds and platforms don't particularly need that feature.

Think of it this way - people who work in any business whatsoever will likely have that skill. Most companies operate on Windows (and goodness knows businesses are slow as hell to update to current tech). Many people will be navigating directories and databases and files and whatnot at work. Mobile phone shenanigans didn't annihilate that knowledge and if anything could do it, it'd be that (though it is somewhat responsible for horrible typing and communication skills - just sayin'). 

I've seen more in the present generations that do not quite understand directory structures than I am comfortable with.

PC gamers will be more familiar with such things as well.

Frankly I'd find an inventory system that more matches present games and such to be more of a hassle and less intuitive for something like Second Life.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What is absurd is some not realizing that there is a significant portion of the SL population who spend more time inworld sorting their inventory, shopping and outfitting themselves then the real world, because it takes more time. I would be faster running to the local Wal Mart in R/L and buying a particular clothing item then it takes me to do the same inworld. SL inventory and shopping is such a clusterfud that computers have not made our virtual lives faster or more efficient. 

That's a 'you' issue.

Solve it yourself.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

As for another bit here: It is not on Linden lab to press creators to actually set a default attachment point - it simply is not.

Nor is it going to take so much of one's oh so precious leisure time to attach the items where they make sense for you if it bothers you so much.

[Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?]

9 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I don't disagree with you often Solar (if at all, really!), but we all know SL is in the unique position of being 20+ years old. I'm not saying the inventory system or any other specific system is in dire need of a complete redo, BUT, there will come a point where SL will get lost in obscurity if it doesn't adapt at least in some way to current tech and make itself a bit more familiar.

I'm a diehard fan of the C64/Atari gaming era (and DOS gaming, and Sierra, and and and), but I came to realize that nobody under the age of 35 knows what the hell I'm even on about if I try to get into all that in this here 2024, LOL. If I mention a game that's been released within the last 5 years, though, I'm no longer looked at like I have 3 heads.

For the record, I hate modern consoles, so I'm in no way advocating SL adopt any of that mess. I'm not even a fan of the whole mobile craze. It could use a little polish for PC users in general, though.

I say this, of course, well aware that the OG Everquest just hit its 25 year anniversary (omg, I'm old) and that game is STILL raking in a ton of cash and lots of players with those old wonky graphics and dated mechanics, so...maybe I'm just wrong about this. 😂

In some instances "familiarity" is essentially code for laziness/unwillingness to learn/"simplification" to the point of absurdity.

If we end up losing something so basic and simple as how to navigate an actual directory structure ... it really will be time to seriously examine things and consider that EMP.

ETA: For the record I am advocating for the bloody rest of these places to actually ensure people are familiar with such basic things and remain familiar with them.