Mickey Vandeverre

IT IS NOT WORKING Suella! You don't have a clue either what is happening, because you run around here agreeing with everyone and sugar-coating every single paragraph. You never challenge anyone - you agree with everything. Hell NO! no-one is going to flag your stuff. There are other reasons that people will be flagged abusively: Their prices are considerably lower than what a competitor can deal with. Their product and/or store is extremely successful, and they happen to be selling in a category that is occupied by someone with "issues" Their product is much better. Someone simply doesn't like them. Their product is similar - but much better priced They are a new creator with a ton of promise and really good stuff it goes on and on...........

I'll explain how I determine categories on occasion, if there is any question, or if there is not a category available (often) I type in a title description very similar to mine, and look to see which categories the others have listed their product in. I kind of eyeball that percentages on that. If 75% of the products on the first 3 pages (and these would be Top Sellers, meaning they were allowed to stay in that category for a long time period)....then I simply place the product (similar to theirs) into that category, with no qualms whatsoever. Now....if you have a mad flagger on your hands....they will flag your item, then you have to debate that with support. While you are doing that....the 75% of those products that stayed in that category forever.....simply do not have to deal with that. Nor should they have to! They are Top Sellers! meaning they got the category correct for proper merchandising - gee whiz - how hard is that to grasp. So now....you know that many other products similar to yours are positioned to a decent selling category, while you were just forced to a less than prime category. Really don't understand why that is so hard for people to grasp here.

I'll have to disagree with contacting support. They clearly do NOT know how to market my products. And I definitely do NOT want them deciding what my product is or is not. They don't have a clue who I sell that item to, and they don't have a clue what it is used for. Unless they want to show up at my workshop every day, and spend a one hour consultation time with me BEFORE I design a product....then I am not asking them to determine what the product is AFTER I design it.

Those are awesome suggestions Bonadea. I'll second that. On the de-listing of your items...it sounds like Linden Lab is not acknowledging an abuse there, so you're probably going to have cover your azz best you can on your own. In order to avoid lost sales, if it's possible.....you will need to pull up your store screen a few times a day. If you're running promotions on the new products (I do) - use a blog for the pic and description, first....instead of linking directly to a marketplace page. If you link directly to the marketplace page in your promotions, then once your product has been pulled - it will send your customers to main marketplace screen - and you don't want that. So if they were able to at least see the product pic and description on your blog - with a LM to the inworld store - - you at least have something. I've noticed that the mad flagger operates at certain times of the day. Figure out what time that is, and start listing your products at other times of the day. That way, you can at least get a half a day's worth of promotion out of your product. If you do new product promotion.....might be best to let it sit on the market a few days before busting out the promotion. I hate doing that - I like that promo busted out the minute it hits....but if your mad flagger sits there and waits for your new product to be posted every day.....you might have to do that. I ran some test packaging a long time ago - at different times of day - and did some testing with categories - - this will help you figure out who your mad flagger is, often depending on what category they don't want you in, and how fast they pull that trigger. I noticed that the mad flagger definitely does not want me in one category, so I simply stopped boxing stuff for that category. I know, that's not fair.....but it really cut down on my aggravation level. Be careful on running enhancements. If they are targetting you for the flagging - they will flag that item shortly after it hits the enhancement page - - so you have to watch this like a hawk or you're going to waste your enhancement money. I could go on and on, but those are the most important things to watch.

I had a pretty good hunch who it was, by the way. Confirmed.

I don't have enough technical knowledge to create a Jira. I don't think that it is worth it. This is a petty issue considering the whole scheme of things, and it could easily be resolved or at the least reduced based on the input that is already here in this forum, and has been sitting here for months. And based on the last 3 days of dialogue, I don't have the inclination to spend any further time on this. I don't get paid to try to have a dialogue. Not on the clock for this. There is no amount of time spent typing words here, that will convince you that your limitations are what some people have difficulty with....and that they are NOT criminals intentionally breaking your rules. Will simply package product to fit your limitations. And will reduce promotion efforts, so that a possible auto de-list does not elimate half a day's work. That's not exactly a benefit for the shopper or for your marketplace or venue. Multiply that times others who simply don't want to fool with this. But been there, done that...on a variety of levels. Over and over again.

You used my category issue specifically in your example, and then referred to that as trying to be "slick" a few paragraphs after. I've given you examples of what the immediate de-listing effects are to a merchant. A warning would be sufficient, with time to adjust or submit support ticket, rather than canceling out their marketing and promotion in one fell swoop in an instant. That marketing and promotion benefits your company. I've given you an example of how the drop down menu to type in a keyword and choose a category does not work, according to what your rules spell out that you want. I've given an explanation that your limited categories that do not cover popular items are in fact contributing to the category listing confusion and dilemma, and some people are forced to choose second best, as the appropriate category is simply not there. I've explained that I have many years of product merchandising under my belt (and others here have MUCH more experience)...and do not need a hand holding session to list product. There has been one thread after another on the de-listing of products since your new marketplace opened, and there have been people responding with the same thoughts on abuse by flaggers as I have. It is not a personal issue. You even participated in one of those threads earlier on. There is generally at least one thread on this topic on any given day. You don't seem to be acknowledging the above. It's infuriating that I have to defend my business practices in order to get the above across. Have often accepted that as par for the course from another merchant....but don't expect that from a Linden. And as a business owner where real dollars exchange hands....it's infuriating that we have no other avenues to supply information and get an issue resolved in a respectful fashion and in a productive fashion. Our hands are tied. And in addition, we are paying for that. I really can't find a support option on your pull down menu that says ..... "hey, I want to grow my business, but there's this issue thing that gets in the way, and would like to supply some suggestions and explain what the problems are.....and surely this would be beneficial to all of us...if not, just let us know why, and we will move on to other things, and possibly come up with some better suggestions..." It's all right here, spelled out.... So I really don't see a need to submit another support ticket to your particular division.

Pardon me, but not sure "who" you are referring to as trying to be "slick." I sure hope that it is not me. Simply working with the options on your pull down menus. They don't work, by the way. I typed in "outdoor" for that pull down menu, and it gave two options. I chose one. If you do not want us using those options, then do not supply them. There is not option when you pull that menu down to advance farther down into a category. The category that you want me to place that item in....has 30,000 plus some odd items in it, and a very very limited range of sub-categories, which do not apply at all to many items, and none of those options applied to this item. When you see that many items in one category, a logical method would be to supply more sub-categories within, in order for effective merchandising. You all have not listened to this in past discussions, and you're not listening now. I do NOT need a lecture on how to merchandise my products. And that is where your customer support attempt has failed. I would no longer be in this thread, if I had been talked to in a reasonable fashion about that issue. People are trying to sell their stuff...and the options are limited. You can call us "slick" if you want, and there lies the problem. Rather than listening to what the issues are at the core (from a long term customer), and in addition going so far as to imply that they are intentionally violating and perpetuating a faulty system....that's your choice. If you want to operate that way, and infuriate a long term customer.....FINE. I know how to market products and I know how to treat customers. And it's at the opposite end of the spectrum. You still fail to address the issue of abuse in flagging, and it's been pointed out to you many times in these forums. By twisting the information that I've provided into an abuse on my part is unreasonable and uncalled for.

Do you have your merchandise on marketplace, Phil? It's not a forum. It's a marketplace and it's a business. I don't recall any marketplace that I've ever used online giving that power to other merchants. Several months ago, I accidentally listed an item twice on ebay. They sent me a message telling me to correct it. I had so many items up, that I could not find which one they were talking about, so I just left it. Then they called me ON THE PHONE to explain which one it was, and they were really nice about it. They did not reprimand me, and tell me that I did not have a clue how to list products after 10 years of using their service. They obviously checked my records before calling. And at the end of the call, they THANKED me for using their service and asked if there was anything else that I needed help with.

It doesn't seem like you are hearing what I'm saying. 1) There was NOT a proper category for it, so it gets placed into the nearest fitting category. No way am I going to flag all those items on the first 8 pages of relevance for that category - they are TOP SELLERS! That's part of the point! They were placed into a category that sells. If there were a category that described all those products as they should be described....they probably could have sold twice as many. I WILL NOT FLAG a merchant's items. That is NOT acceptable. And it's BAD BUSINESS. I mentioned "why" in the last post. The fact that you keep encourage that type of abuse....is very disheartening, and I had little faith left in your company.

I have major issues with this. 1) I run a coordinated promotion effort with these products. A promotion goes to group, then it goes to the product blog, then it goes to the general blog, then it goes to twitter for both blogs. * you pull a product during that time - and I just wasted half a day. Perhaps I should mention that all that blogging and promotion has a wee bit something to do with the company you work for. 2) You just closed my case before I could respond explaining. That is no way to treat someone who maintains an attractive presentation on your web site, for several years in good standing, with a Satisfaction Guaranteed policy for your customers, and several hours a day promoting your company in a favorable fashion to the general public at a considerable time cost. 3) I have no other alternatives to address this - since you closed my case. We are SOL when we have an issue like this. * that's why it's here in this thread. 4) The pages that you pulled my item from are chock full of items that do not belong there any more than mine supposedly does not. * when you operate under a willy-nilly system where only those who are being targeted by a competitor or someone with a Bad Tude are penalized....that does more harm to your marketplace as a whole than it does to us individually. 5) You do not have proper categories for effective merchandising. Supply the proper categories and your work load on these type of issues will be cut in half. 6) I do not approve of the merchant community having the power to put a new product out of business for half a week, and the power to cancel out several days worth of coordinating promotions, and neither should your company. * again, that does more damage to the marketplace as a whole, by giving abusers control over conscientious merchants. 7) I will adjust that particular product so that I may place it into the category that will actually sell it (for some reason thought that's why we do this)....but adjusting my irritation at the way this was handled is an entirely different story.

I've been listing products to sell online for double more years than second life has been around. I know exactly which category that item needs to be placed in, or I won't sell shizz. I don't need a GD learning experience. Customers do not have a problem with your listings category placement, but merchants with too much angst and too much time on their hands DO. Will say this over and over again....the system needs to be corrected. Linden Lab - 1) you do not have enough categories and you do not have sensible categories. Fix that. 2) by letting some trigger happy angst mongers control the system, you are costing yourselves an ungodly amount of man hours dealing with petty BS. 3) Take Names. And match up alts to mains. Get rid of the abusers. And spend your man hours on something much more productive.

Thank you so much. Is there a way that a merchant could put their own merchandise up for this...so that the funds go directly to Donate Linden?

Madeliefste - this is a concern for me too. I've not had that full inventory show up for months. Recently, have only been able to load about 9,000 out of 25,000 items. Can't even get home to my villa in Costa Rica, because forgot name of sim, and LM won't appear. Creation halted, because anything I built for the last year doesn't show up. Prior to that, I would box up and package a set - major time - then load it into magic box. Forgot to leave copies on store floor - then next day it is missing from inventory. Never shows up again. So have to repackage and rebox. Some items just disappear forever. Fortunately, can pull them off store floor. Now, my workshop is storage space - have to leave every single item out on floor, in case it disappears from inventory. This will become expensive due to prims needed. This concept is really scary.

Monavie - Won't touch facebook again. Second Life offered something entirely different for years. One of the reasons I thoroughly enjoyed the exploration and adventures all those years. Combined that with a business that relies on that concept, and all indication is that customers were enjoying those aspects as well. There are conflicting signals as to what Second Life wants to continue to offer. They promote "escape"....yet look at what we're dealing with here. When they make it official that they no longer encourage exploration and adventure.....I will unplug, as will others. Gotta say.....if this is swept under the rug.....seems pretty darn official to me, as what they want to offer. I have no clue, as their messages are generally conflicting....so will proceed to be offended by what these security devices have done to the traditional way that many of us have used this venue.

Someone hand me a stinkin' badge and a stinkin' rank, so I can tell you how I really feel.

well, you certainly worded your question quite diplomatically, Ciaran! You should give a tutorial on that. Of course it reduces sales. People are hotter than....(oh, I could plug in some phrases here, but not allowed).....a wet hen.... The most recent "enlightenment" of a particular style of security system, which equates to having your privates groped by the TSA.....only electronically.... then stored for future groping!.... Will be remembered by many as the day their adventures in Second Life came to a screeching halt. Was in the middle of collecting my own database, some nice little handwritten memos in a notebook, jotting down the people who ruined SL for me and others... Unfortunately, my resource got pulled....hopefully someone else will take the initiative. If they're going to collect my "stuff"....and treat me as a criminal the minute I set foot on their property, then I sure as heck am going to do the same in return. Unfortunate thing is....that because some chose to operate that way....it will reduce sales across the board, as people have had to adjust their thinking and mode of shopping inworld. Not to mention attending live music events and some extracurricular activities. I'm not paranoid - I'm pissed. And so are others. If the others unplugged for good - that effects us all. Could go into a lengthy list of how that all pans out, but don't want to make the new forum system crash! This week, a neighboring business had a botched security system spamming my store with "You are being ejected" five times a minute, for two solid days, until the dipshiz Yahoo came online to shut it off. I had IMs in my box all day long, and they were NOT pleasant! It wasn't just about the annoying spam, but moreso the fact that people thought I had a security system, and what that implies. If the people using the systems think that their stuff is so valuable and precious that they can justify destroying the adventures and exploration of those taking full advantage of an amazing world.....and thus mess up the economy, while they are at it..... Well, can't really say how I feel about that, here.... Except that no way in heck am I going to support them with dollars. And it ain't about a few lindens....they are going to lose some Real Life Dollars. And those that are hiding it? There's a place for people like that.

We don't need no stinkin' badges or stinkin' ranks. Great way to tell new contributors or rare contributors that their brilliant thoughts and ideas aren't worth jack squat. Don't care how confident someone is in their thoughts and busting them out, it's still a PITA to enter a forum and have to go through some nursery school protocol to be heard and engage. Someone gets a blankee, someone gets a mat, someone gets to sit in teacher's lap, and someone is sent to corner to suck thumb. Very disappointed. They're going to end up with exactly what they ended up with in the last forum. But worse.

User Groups and OH are to Appease. The Facts and Issues are on the pages of Jiras and Forum and have been over and over again for months. This person is totally content with skipping the entire appeasement process (really don't care who shows for it anymore) and heading straight for the Get R Done Stage based on all the feedback that is already on the pages.

Hopefully, the next one will be By Invitation Only.

Hammer went down (on a number of levels) Sell G-rated stuff with G-rated words or deal with your market being cut in half. Those look like the options. Might want to clean up your comments a tad, or sell nothing at all.

The ability to cross list items in up to 3 categories. (those selling holiday items that might work for other things could list these in more than one section. ie. a Valentines cake could be listed in the holiday section, decorations, and under food type items as well. Expanding on this - yes, this is very important, and in the meantime was willing to pay for this, by running an enhancement in the second category. Unless I've got some kind of a glitch going on - - this is not possible either. Example is a Valentine's living room set, which has to be run timely and effectively for a brief period - - plugged in an enhancement to run it in the Home and Garden section, which would be a regular category. Then went to run the enhancement in the Valentine section, and enhancement features would not give the opportunity to run it in another category like that - only other options were to run it on home page or some checkout pages. Major blow on that promotion by not getting in that valentine section first. And this applies to all kinds of items, not just seasonal items. If there is no intention of offering the ability to list in multiple categories as part of a free listing - - (some) people would certainly be willing to pay for that option, and in some cases it's absolutely required for effective promotions. Again, unless I've got a glitch going on - - it just isn't possible the way your enhancement options are set up. If it is possible - it certainly was not a user friendly process - tried frantically to get that done - just would not give another category option. If the reason that running in multiple categories is not allowed has to do with abuse...understandable...but willing to pay for the second and third categories as a regular listing as well, not necessarily a featured listing, but a one time fee that lasts for the duration, probably discouraging abuse. Actually think that offering these options would cut down on people sticking items in root categories to be flagged. I would choose 3 "acceptable to the flaggers" categories over a root category any day. We could sell a lot more stuff with these options.

Encourage you not to be discouraged with last week's OH comments, and please look into using twitter for communication. It meets all the requirements - Fast - Easy - Fun Second Life people DO use it for a very effective and timely form of communication. Plus it reaches many, many potential users. Good PR - people are mostly nice there. If they're not nice - you simply skim over, and no one will ever know. (as opposed to forums) Thanks!