Quartz Mole
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Posts posted by Quartz Mole
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2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:
I agree with a lot of your points.
Even as a professional programmer, I never bothered to build my own PC so didn't want to last time I bought a "desktop". I paid a local computer guy to do it for me (that was his business). He took my specs, found all the right stuff (I did have at least 1 special requirement), and even sold me the "SquareTrade" warranty. I think he didn't really charge anything meaningful.. Win-Win!
Same here. I've had my PCs made by a local computer store for about what I'd pay for an off-the-shelf model of a similar spec and whenever I want replace or upgrade a component I discuss my requirements with them and they end up supplying and fitting the new gpu or whatever for about, or less than, what I'd pay for the same component on Amazon.
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Please try to keep the discussion focussed on SL-related topics, and don't let it wander off into a more general discussion of empathy and toxicity in general.
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2 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:
Disagreement is always personal. One person disagrees with another, that's how it goes. On the other hand, the expectation of any debate to be agreeable, all smiles and pats on the shoulders is quite delusional. If that's the case, let's shut down any existing forum and get it over with.
It is perfectly possible to disagree with a point someone makes without making a personal issue of it (insulting or belittling them or impugning their motives).
The Forum Participation Guidelines say,
QuoteThe Second Life Forums is a place to discuss ideas, experiences, and questions, and to share what you’ve learned about Second Life with each other and with us. We want to foster an honest and open exchange of ideas on our forums; to do that, we want to encourage all participants to maintain an atmosphere of courtesy and respect for others at all times. Creating a constructive place for conversation will help us build a strong, better informed community in Second Life, and make both of our communication channels and our world a more supportive and engaging place for all.
and
QuoteNo Flaming: “Flames” are hostile or disruptive posts, or messages intended to provoke an angry or negative response. Spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, but name-calling and airing of grievances are not appropriate in our discussion areas. We will also not tolerate any post that encourages others to violate any policy of Linden Lab.
I've had to remove several posts because people seemed to have forgotten about this.
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Some disagreements seem to be getting a bit personal. These, if they must be conducted at all, should be conducted in personal messages, not in the forum.
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Please try to restrict the discussion to PBR without going off on tangents like speculating about what research Linden Lab do or don't do, or what they did or didn't get right when introducing new features in the past.
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25 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:
So why is the ability to do both not included in the same viewer to ensure that all bases are covered?
As someone noted above, they have to open up a separate viewer to do the Bing Bang Ping Pong aka ALM to apply materials then open up a PBR viewer to apply PBR on top.
This seems counter productive. Having the ability to do both in the same viewer would make it a lot easier for content creators to apply both which would then be visible to all viewers / residents. And being able to select what you want to see - PBR or ALM or neither would make sense as well.
And TY for all the fun stuff you all create. Just need to nibble the ankles of LL programmers to fix this and make it multi-user friendly from nutin applied old school to Bing Bang Ping Pong/ALM materials to Peanut Butter & Jelly/PBR all in the same viewer.
Sorry, but I don't understand. You can apply both in the same viewer if you use the Official Viewer. As Scylla notes above, you just have to apply the Blinn-Phong textures first. Presumably when Firestorm release their PBR viewer, you'll be able to do the same in that viewer, too. Or have I misunderstood something?
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34 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:
I have noticed two merchants I frequent - Azoury & Scarlet Creative - have begun to use PBR in their creations, both have had to put signs out warning residents that if they are not using the new SL PBR viewer, they will only see a plain white texture, which is true. Azoury has incorporated PBR into some parts of their new store and Scarlet into the buildings they sell. Scarlet is aware of the issue so has included a "legacy non PBR" building in their package,
This seems like a huge *****-up on behalf of LL that if PBR effects are applied and you are not using a PBR viewer then all you see is only a blank white surface. At least with ALM and local lights, if you turn off those features you can still see the texture without the added materials. They will lack the depth and realism and light reflections but the texture detail and color is still there.
Yes. Blinn-Phong and PBR are completely separate. If you're using a PBR viewer you see the PBR layers. If you're not, you see the Blinn-Phong ones if the creator has applied any.
When we were making Winter Wonderland, because we weren't sure when Firestorm would have PRB ready, we had to texture everything twice, once with PBR materials and once with Blinn-Phong ones, to be sure everyone would see much the same thing.
I think the moral of this story, though, is that content creators should always check what their creations look like in (at least) both Firestorm and the Official Viewer at several different viewer settings, which I have to say I knew to do well before I started to work for LDPW.
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Please let's stick to the topic, "lossy texture compression."
If people feel they really must complain about other contributors' tone, then please do it in personal messages or somewhere other than these forums.
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Any further discussion of the qualities or reputation of individual forum regulars is very much off-topic for this thread. It is not a path we should explore any further.
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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
I intentionally opened in in regular General -- partly for a wider audience and partly to keep it clean.
Feel free to open one up a similar thread in Adult for more risque conversations
I assumed you had your reasons for opening the thread here, which is why I didn't suggest moving it. The fact it's got this far without any problems demonstrates your decision was the right one and that it's perfectly possible to have a useful discussion without going into too much Adult detail, which is why I don't want to take up BilliJo's suggestion.
If people want to start a parallel discussion in the Adult forum, they're very welcome to, but let's keep this one suitable for a G audience.
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41 minutes ago, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said:
I do don’t even know there was an adult forum! Where is it?
https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/118-adult-content-forum/
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Please remember that this thread, despite the topic, needs to remain G-rated to remain within the forum guidelines. If people want to start another thread in the Adult Forums then that would no longer be a concern, but please keep this in mind while posting here.
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I think we're starting to wander off-topic.
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I'd like to remind people that the Linden Lab Official:Forum Participation Guidelines start with
QuoteThe Second Life Forums is a place to discuss ideas, experiences, and questions, and to share what you’ve learned about Second Life with each other and with us. We want to foster an honest and open exchange of ideas on our forums; to do that, we want to encourage all participants to maintain an atmosphere of courtesy and respect for others at all times. Creating a constructive place for conversation will help us build a strong, better informed community in Second Life, and make both of our communication channels and our world a more supportive and engaging place for all.
It would, I think, be generally appreciated, not least by me, if people could express their disagreements about PBR without resorting to sarcasm or otherwise belittling people with whom they disagree. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, and I fear it can only be off-putting to people who want to ask questions about this new (at least for SL) technology but are worried about being dismissed as idiots for not understanding things.
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SSP?
in Linden Homes
We know you enjoy speculating about what we're doing, and we enjoy reading your speculations -- some of which are spookily accurate and some of which are wildly off-beam.
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I hope this thread doesn't make a detour into buying and selling microparcels and so on.
If people want to discuss that kind of thing, they should do it in the Land forum, without attacking what they take to be the business practices of other forum members.
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2 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:
Has LL ever considered making this data public? anonymized of course, much like how Valve publish Steam hardware 'survey' data each month.
For a platform driven by user generated content this data would be valuable information for creators.
I don't know. I'd suggest you attend one of the Content Creator User Group meetings and ask there.
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6 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:
SL still looks as empty as it always has, and with this new feature cutting off a lot of people at the knees, it will get even emptier. WTG LL.
As I understand it, it's a myth that lots of people log into SL with very low spec machines -- LL see the default graphics settings that viewers apply when they're installed, whatever people may later set them to, and apparently the vast majority of users have machines that can easily handle medium to higher-range graphics settings. The only sizeable constituency who use very low end machines are bots, who are logged in on text-only viewers for obvious reasons.
Certainly from I've been told, people won't find that PBR means they can't log in. It shouldn't make a big difference to people's performance, at least not with the Official Viewer. And that's been our experience in LPDW, where we use a wide variety of different machines, and those of who have them, have deliberately been testing PBR viewer on our low-end backup laptops.
If your machine can't cope with particular PBR features, you won't see them, just as not everyone has been able to use particular graphics settings in the past. It shouldn't spoil your SL.
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21 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:
Went to the full PBR Winter Wonderland region. Didn't like being a white cloud for about a minute or the minutes it took to load the textures (all gray buildings). I have a year and a half old desktop that was top of the line when I bought it so not a wimpy computer). Until they get things loading faster this will be a killer for some folks. Those on FS have some time before the have to be on a PBR viewer so that's a plus. I will be installing the latest FS viewer soon and skipping the PBR.
The reflections are impressive. That's the best part. Also on the plus side it seems like very little old content is breaking --- a big plus.
In SANSAR the devs managed some great things eventually with load times and PBR so it is likely that things will improve. There have been some reports from builders with some major issues. I am not part of the beta testing LOL.
2 minutes later --- well, good I waited as the FS new release has been taken off due to bugs.
https://www.firestormviewer.org/woops/
We Moles have been testing the various PBR viewers for some months now (well, we had to, to build Winter Wonderland, of course, but that wasn't the only reason).
We use a variety of machines of all shapes and sizes -- I'm still running a GeForce GTX 660 GPU ! -- and I don't think any of us have experienced particular performance issues with the more recent builds. At least Windows users haven't. I know the Mac users were having difficulties not so long ago, but I think those have now been ameliorated, if not completely fixed.
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2 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:
You can't accidentally destroy anything and they're copy so you have fresh clones to experiment on in your inventory! You can explode them and keep them. You can have it all!
I would say that the thing that worked was something I'd tried before. I put the boxes and the boopies through a lot of experiments when I first got them. But as Patch confirmed it was a thing, I thought I'd give it another go and repeat the things I'd done before. It worked this time. Second Life sometimes doesn't register clicks, so try everything a few times.
The randomness is, in this case, intentional. If you fiddle with it enough, sooner or later it'll blow up.
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Perhaps the conversation about CMNF, BDSM and other kinks would, if people want to pursue it at any length, be better conducted in a thread of its own, perhaps in the adult forum.
I don't think this thread is right place for serious and extended discussions about any topic.
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50 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:
Ah, good! I shan't Jira then, and also shan't bother you unless I actually want a borked parcel, and cannot reset it. There are about 2300 Fantasy parcels available, so let's not sweat it for the few I find.
Btw, I used my trusty Multifunction Stopwatch app to time my reset attempts, having seen your comments elsewhere. Most mysterious.
If you come across another one you can't restart, let me know and I'll gladly take a look. The long touch script recognises Lindens, Moles and the parcel owner, and I can't think of why it wouldn't know who the parcel owner is, whatever problems the main script is having. Clearly it does work for the parcel owner, at least in some cases.
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20 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:
I just freed up a hopper, who is trying to snag a nice Fantasy parcel. 3 out of the 5 parcels she got today had this issue I think I've seen mentioned here. When the new owner tries to use the controller, it says something like: "The scripts have been reset and are currently initializing. Please try again in few minutes".
BUT.
If you go away for 10 minutes and come back, you get the same message.
If you attempt to reset the controller yourself by holding down the mouse button for 10 seconds, then 20 seconds, then 30 seconds, you get the same message.
Since I didn't want those parcels, I just abandoned them. I got one of them a second time, and the controller was still borked.
@Quartz Mole, should I have filed a ticket for each of these parcels, even tho I was going to abandon them immediately? This seems more like a problem for a JIRA, is someone already working on a fix?
We've got a fix and are waiting for it to pass QA (unfortunately, this is our busiest time of year, so QA's time is limited).
However, as I've said several times in other thread, every time I've investigated the issue, I've been able to reset the house controllers by touching them, holding down the left mouse button for 10 seconds and releasing it.
When people IM me about it, I tell them to do that, and that I'll come over and take a look if it doesn't work, but please to try that first, and it always works for them.
From this I conclude that 10 seconds is longer than many people think.
If you find any more house controllers like that, ping me and, if I'm online, I'll come over and take a look with you.
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I have sought advice and am told that cross-posting links to the Adult Forum in this General Forum is not permitted.
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Why I Don't Like PBR
in General Discussion Forum
Posted · Edited by Quartz Mole
Please let's stick to the topic -- PBR -- rather than get bogged down in debates about whether people are misrepresenting each other or their sources.
Everyone will by now have been able to reach their own conclusions about how seriously to take the contributions of particular regular posters in the thread.