ChinRey

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: my bi-pedal mesh avs are still very complex, and will remain so after the new skeleton. They are done by some of the best in SL. Oh, in that case there's no need to worry. If it's made by some of the best, it shouldn't take more than a week or two before you receive a lower lag upgrade. Problem solved.

Aethelwine wrote: Chimney, I am curious to know where you got those numbers Determing the SRC for an item is easy, just switch rdner weight display on, wear the item and see how the number change. It's not exact, the render weight display is calculated by the viewer using a slightly simplified forumla, but it's clsoe enough the difference has no real significance. The render weight for textures are according to the official formula. Aethelwine wrote: and if there is a more detailed explanation anywhere for how the ARC Is calculated. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight Now, that page can be a buit confusing since it seems to be about mesh objects at first but then it suddenly starts to talk about avatars and only avatars. However, countless tests done by countless people have confirmed that this is the formula used to calculate render complexity/render weight/draw weight/ARC/whatever-you-call-it for all avatars and for all worn or rezzed objects in Second Life. (There is one minor error on that page btw, it shouldn't be relevant in this particular context but particles add 100 per particle, not per prim.) The formula is rather outdated by now and has several weaknesses, some inevtiable, some that should have been fixed. But it's the one LL uses, it's the best we have and usually it gives a fairly good estimate of an item's actual rendering load. Aethelwine wrote: Chinrey sorry about your name in my previous post. Autocorrect and on my mobile or I would go back and correct it NP. I've been called worse things than that.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Sadly, my nonhuman mesh bodies blow 80K out of the water.. So, i will be a jelly-lycan, jelly- minotaur, jelly-demon and all the others.. Not necessarily, take a look at this for example (sorry, had to censor that picture a li'l bit)  A not particularly low weight mesh body for the upper torso, a long flexi hair and it's still well below the 80 000 limit. The spider part is an old all-sculpts avi and it was made by none other than Flea Bussy but I've seen the same with mesh avis and avis made by less epxerienced creators too: if it's well made, even the most elaborate non-human avatar can have lower, not higher, render weight than a human one.

Jumpman Lane wrote: I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT MY AVATAR COMLEXITY AND HATE GETTING SPAMMED BY SECOND LIFE EVERY TIME I CHANGE CLOTHES! Not sure what you mean by that, do you mean: I can see myself just fine and I'm a hermit in SL so it doesn't matter to others I wear what I like and don't care about how other people see me I don't like to be reminded how laggy my avatar is My avatar is always low lag so there's no point (If so, I suggest you take it as a compliment: 30 000 render complexity? Yes, you're great, well done!) Some other reason? As Whirly said, you can switch it off but I would advise you against it. Avatar render complexity is one of the biggest problems, perhaps even the biggest problem, in SL today and something LL and owners of public places just have to do something about. It probably won't be logn before clubs and rp sims and such start evicting laggy avatars. So you want to keep an eye on your render complexity for your own sake.

Now that the Jellybabies finally are an official part of Second Life, here is a challenge to you all: What is the best outfit you can manage to put together without going over 80 000 in render weight? I have no fashion sense at all and my SL wardrobe is a certified disaster zone but just to get hings started, this is what I managed to come up with in a hurry:  I'm sure others can do a lot better. (Btw, if anybody wondrs why 80 000 is the limit, that seems to be the "safe" level. If your avatar is higher res than that, you'll start to show up as a jellybaby in some other people's viewers.)

polysail wrote: #1 Old sculptie items: If you're wearing things that are made out of sculpts and not mesh, chances are taking it off will practically halve your complexity rating. Old Sculptie hair is terrible. That's a good point but not quite true. A single untextured sculpt only has 1024 vertices and a base render complexity of 688. There are certainly mesh werables with much more than that around. As with everything else it depends a lot on the creator's skills. I did some tests with old sculpt-and-flexi hairs from different makers and the render complexity varied a lot even with hair of similar quality and styles - anything from 10 000 to over 60 000. 10 000 is quite high too of course but manageable if you don't wear too many other heavy items. To add to Polysail's list: #4 Shoes: It's amazing how many tiny little details nobody will ever see some shoe creators manage to add to their works. I have shoes with render weigth over 80 000 all on their own and they don't look any better than the (relatively) low weight ones I usually use. #5 Mesh bodies: No, a well made mesh body doesn't add that much to the calculated render weight on its own, typically about 3500-5000. (Actual render load seem to be quite a lot higher but still manageable and not what we're discussing here anyway.) But there are some really heavy weight on the market and even the lightest mesh body can get quite heavy if you fill it up to capacity with high res skin, tattoo and clothes textures. #6 Textures: Every single surface on every single item we wear has a texture on it and it's quite common among creators of wearbles to use way to high resolution and too many textures. A single 1024x1024 resolution texture adds 392 to the render complexity, a low resolution 128x128 adds 273. That doesn't sound like much but multiply by 10, 20, 30, 40, 50... how many texture can an avatar wear at the same time? Is there a known limit at all? Oh, and to put it into perspective: to actually see all the details of a 1024x1024 resolution texture, you'd have to scale it up to fill an entire fairly big computer screen,

Guenevere Amaranth wrote: I installed this, but still have the same problem. What image size are you trying to upload? I've noticed if I choose the highest resolution int eh dropdown menu (1024x768) uplaods usually fail but if I go down to 800x600 they work jsut fine.

This is going to be interesting, lots of people have already complained about Quick Graphics. Not everybody accepts that they can't both have their cake and eat it. I always liked to think of myself as lag conscious but I never checked the render complexity for all my outfits. Quite a few unpleasant surprises there, lots of very similar items with very different render weights. From now on it's no outfits with higher wieght than 80 000 for me! That means no more hair from my favorite hair maker but oh well, I've already found other makers who make just as good and less laggy hair.

I'm jumping in late into this discussion but did you remember to make sure the wall is absolutely flat? Even the most minute displacement of a vertice or two can have an effect similar to what you show here.

There is a bug in the current versions of the SL Viewer that means it won't always log on automatically to the profiles website. The solution is simple although rather annoying: When you try to open a profile and login fails, you'll see a padlock icon at the top right corner of the profile window. Clicking on that will take you to a page where you can log on to the profile site manually. If you check the "Remember me" checkbox, the viewer will remember until you log off, if you don't, you'll have to log back in each and every time you want to see a profile. Oh btw, somebody may say that bug has been fixed in the very latest version of the viewer. It hasn't.

Kittyrina wrote: Okay, Ive contacted the creators and it seems to be a server issue. Since i never personally pick up any lag from having a good pc, That's good but I'm afraid there is no such thing as a PC that is guaranteed to handle the most render heavy parts of SL without problems. What happens with the ears (and probably the mouth as well) is that there is actually a double set of them. One ear of each set is always invisible and then they switch to give the impression of movement. When the switching fails like this, it's usually a client side problem but it can be caused by a heavily overloaded server and maybe even connection issues (I notice your bandwidth is set very low, that may explain it). Kittyrina wrote: Setting the graffics to mid and sculpt LOD to mid had for now, fixed the issue. That is a very clear indication that it's a client side problem. Your graphics settings won't make any difference whatsoever to how the server or the connection performs. Another indicator is the fps. Type ctrl-shift-1 and look at the fps for your computer and for the server. Your fps is right at the top of the stats window. The server's fps is further down (you may have to click on "Simulator" to see it. It's a fairly safe bet that it's the one with the lowest fps that is struggling to keep up with the animation. Third indicator: scroll down to the bottom of the Statistics window and look at Time. If total frame time is lwoer than about 25 ms it's definitely not the server that is causing the problems (unless it's a very poorly written script that is). If it's lower than about 40, it's probably not the server. If it's higher than that, it's probably the server. Edit: almost forgot: Kittyrina wrote: Okay, Ive contacted the creators and it seems to be a server issue. Everything is always a server issue. The servers never answer back to defend themselves so they're the perfect scapegoats when something goes wrong.

Chrismaky wrote: I totally understand that SL is a user generated content community. I get that. But a lot of you need to understand that creating mesh is FREE and easily learned. It's not a hard thing to grasp. If that is true, why is it that ninety-nine percent of the mesh you see in Second Life is garbage? Prokofy mentioned two common serious problems with mesh, surfaces you can't rez on and land impact spinning out of cotnrol when items are linked. He could also have mentioned items (especially cars actually) that break down into a mess of triangles even at moderate vieweing distances, houses with walls you can alk through and doorways you can't and floors you sink into or float way above etc., etc., etc. All those problems are not caused by mesh itself and are easily avoided by competent mesh makers. They are caused by people trying to make mesh without understanding the basic principles.

Kittyrina wrote: - Bandwidth: 500 - View Distance: less than 80 - Objects & Sculpts LOD - Max - All graphics on Ultra, no issues. What happens if you turn down the gaphics load a bit, like overall greaphics setting to High or Mid and Objects & Sculpt LOD to mid?

wherorangi wrote: ... In the former then as the leader of my community then I would act as best I can to protect the reputation and prospects of the community I lead That was the point of my first post - not sure if I managed to make that clear. Renting out land for spamming and griefing and other antisocial activities hurts your reputation as a landowner. You loose money on ti because it drives away other more reliable potential renters. The moral aspect is quite interesting and rather complex but it's not actually very relevant in this case: Just be selfish and get rid of them for you own sake!

I'm afraid that's not possible. A security orb can only do automatically what the owner has permission to do manually. In other words, it has to be owned by the same person or group as the land to work. Well, actually there are some ways to work around that limitation but if the landowner isn't willing to change the alert time on the existing security orb, there's not much chance they're willing to set up that for you either.

Even weirder than usual that is. ;-) I just logged on with Firestorm (4.7.7.48706) and started getting error messages like this:  The strange thing is that I wasn't even working with anything MP related! When I checked the Avatar menu, the old Merhcant Dropbox had suddenly turned up there. I thought it had been removed from the viewer code long ago. A relog fixed the issue but has anybode else experienced the same and found an explanation?

Qie Niangao wrote: I'm trying to understand this. If the group spammers are throwaway alts, unaffected by a group ban, why is it more effective for a landlord to go after them than it is for the group to simply ban them? Marginally better that is. The spammers would have to find some new base for they business and that should slow them down a bit. But really, if you don't like group spammers, fight them with all legal means, band their bots from your groups, AR them and evict them from your land. It's a war ot attrition and not something that can be won by a single action.

Qie Niangao wrote: ... It certainly doesn't solve all problems (throwaway alts, for example), but it is often enough to address a problem. I have to disagree with you there, Qie. That is rarely enough to address the problem. I can't remember many incidents of group chat spam posted by humans. It's nearly always done by bots. Banning them are rather pointless since they're going to leave right away anyway to make room for new groups to join and spam. Besides, not many groups have the resources to moderate chat 24/7. It's all done by alts and bots. There's an alt renting the land from an unsuspecting landowner, there are a couple of alts who own the items for sale (more than one - you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket), there are bots filling up the place to make it look crowded and there are bots joining and leaving group after group. Even if LL reacts to an abuse report, it's probably too late. These stores constantly move around, they pay the minimum rent and once it expires, they move on to a new location. By the time LL gets around to the case, they're already gone. Unfortunately, the only identifiable persons in all this, and the only ones that can actually do something about it, are the poor landowners and it's inevitable they'll get a lot of trouble from it no matter how innocent they are. If I was the landowner in a case like this - and yes, it can happen, I know that - I would evict the spammers immediately. It's not a moral or ethical decision, it's purely about business. Letting them stay would cost me money, simple as that. Yes, the do pay rent but they only pay it once and they ruin my reputation as a serious landowner and drive away more reliable potential tenants.

Please note, this is a user-helping-user forum. Nobody from Linden Lab ever responds here. To contact them, go to https://support.secondlife.com/contact-support/ and open a support ticket.

Yes and no. There aren't any dedicated lsl functions for normal or specular maps but they are among the countless parameters you can change with llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and that works just as well.

Oh yes, your tier isn't automatically adjusted when you downscale your land, you have to do it manually. Log on to the Second Lfie website, Click on "Land Manager" in the left column and then on "Land Use Fees". Then scroll down to the bottom of the page to the "Update Tier" section. Why LL has hidden this away like that? I dunno, I suppose they never thought about it...

Qie Niangao wrote: Maybe more. I think the (classic) avatar mesh is a distinct class of geometry, and the terrain mesh Oh yes, and the windlight bubbleeach of us is surrounded by of course. That is mesh too. So at least six kinds of mesh then, each apparently handled by its own code, completely independent of the others. You can't make a surround landscape from avatars though since they can't be moved offsim. Qie Niangao wrote: and Linden plants. As far as I have been able to determine, Linden plants seem to be sprites. So are particles, including ribbon ones and probably avatar impostors too.

Chic Aeon wrote: If you have seven sims, you can definitely afford some "prims" The main advantage with sculpts isn't the prim count but the size. The absolute maximum distance you can stretch mesh outside the sim is 59 m. With sculpts there is no realistic limit. Same with prims, come to think of it and if you're a good prim twister you can make amazingly detailed contoured ground from just a handful of them. Chic Aeon wrote: I have always hated sculpts Oh no! Here's what you have to do: Sit down comfortably, close your eyes and say "Sculpt are wonderful" 500 times. Do this once twice a day for a month. Seriously, we don't really have mesh in SL of course - that is we don't have "full" mesh. We have three different simplified variants of mesh, prims, sculpts and ... let's call it SL mesh. They are all seriously nerfed but in different ways so quite often options missing in one system can be found in another. Only by understanding and mastering all those three basic building materials can you unleash the full potential of building in Second Life.

Just build whatever you like. You can extend a linkset far outside the sim border as long as the root prim is located inside the sim and the center of each part in the linkset is no more than aproximately 50 m out. LisaMarie McWinnie wrote: Anyway, for the plain idea, how would I go about making such a thing on blender? For something like what you describe, you definitely want to use sculpts rather than mesh, partly to save prims but mostly because sculpts can be made much bigger than mesh allowing you to stretch the offsim landscape much further out.

To add to Lindal's list, a good landowner who does rentals can own and control a larger area than a small landowner can. A single out-of-place build can ruin a whole sim and if you only own a small parcel there, there is no knowing what will pop up on the neighbor plot tomorrow.