On Mesh and curves

[Eve Greymoon]

I’m a very curvy girl in SL.  I’m a very curvy girl in RL too.  One of the things I have always enjoyed about SL is that I can buy largely anything I’d like to, and if the designer has done their job right, I can make it fit, big chest and all.  In RL, sometimes even my tailor is confounded and can’t alter a garment to fit.  But in SL, that has rarely been a problem.

Until now.  Mesh clothing has come to SL, and I love it.  I can’t wear any of it though.  Why?  Designers apparently have no desire to design for the curvy girl.  In SL, as RL, apparently if you have breasts, nobody wants you to wear their clothes.

Yes, I know the deformer is coming.  But with rigging, I will still likely only be able to wear some things.  Hair is a perfect example.  I have tried the mesh hair, and some of it is really wonderful. I can’t wear it though.  Rigging is done so the mesh will move with your body….unless of course your body protrudes in front.  I have run across this problem with every mesh hair I have tried.  Goes right through my chest. No bones to rig to in breasts apparently.

I don’t want to hear “just change your shape”.  NO.  I have made small changes to fit boots or some regular prim clothing, and this is a reasonable thing to do… but I won’t make a major change just to accommodate fashion. And I shouldn’t have to!  I like the way I look.

So this is a post to plead with designers. Please please please, try to think beyond the small breast box. Please.  I’m begging.  Most of you already have an XS, S, M, L and XL in the box.  Make a curvy that’s REALLY curvy.  C cups are not curvy!  Try a DD.  Or bigger!  The designers who do this will end up with the lion’s share of business in SL.  I have 100 hairs in my inventory. I have 30k items, and I don’t build.  Think about that.  I have money to spend, and I’d love to spend it on mesh clothing and accessories.  Let me throw my money at you!

 

[Medhue Simoni]

Have you tried the deformer? What you are talking about is the whole point of the deformer. I think people, namely women dying for mesh, need to chillout. Wait for the deformer before you go demanding or complaining to clothing makers. The deformer changes everything. Would you really like a designer to waste their time making 100 different designs to fit every person, or would you rather that designer spent their time thinking up new designs. Asking designers to do something before the deformer is pushed out is basically asking them to waste hours of their time so that you can be marginally happy. Every1 has a custom shape. Designers can't possibly make something to fit you perfectly, or any1 else perfectly, without the deformers.

So, please people, wait for the deformer.:smileylol:

I'd like to make another point also. Getting the deformer does not mean that every1 will be happy. Many designers are new at much of this, and don't have alot of rigging experience. Once the deformer comes, expect to see a decent percentage with not the best rigging jobs. So, parts of you may poke thru the clothing. Some mesh designers will just use alpha mask to hide all this, but they should really just learn to rig better. There will be some time for adjust ment with all of this.

[Marianne Little]

The largest in standard sizes is this:

Body Fat: 24
Torso Muscle: 48
Breast Size: 71
Love Handles: 39
Belly Size: 14
Leg Muscle: 69
Butt Size: 62
Saddle Bags: 45

How much larger do you want? You could type in your vital numbers and compare with this. Since sliders go up to 100, I guess some want to have breast size 100. Since 100 is the biggest you can get with sliders, a 100 size is probably GG? I am not sure if the deformer will work well, from 71 to 100?  From what I seen, small adjustments work best, or else the texture will be deformed and we would not want that?

[Harlow Heslop]

I can definitely see how this is frustrating!  The bright side though, is mesh is VERY new and stll in development.  Many designers are sticking to the standard sizing, as well as only a few sizes until they truly get the hang of how mesh works and functions.  The deformer can also help, but I know it still has a few glitches as well.  Give it some time, I've seen more and more curvier items begin to make appearances, and I think in due time you'll have just as many choices as the less curvy avatars! Best of luck! <3 

[Morgaine Christensen]

I do think designers (new or old) need to be cognizant of the wants and needs of customers.  I think the most successful ones will be those that listen and make different sizes and shapes available of their clothing.   I am not even sure I will buy mesh with the deformer coming.  I don't like how chunk and blocky they look with lack of movement, but that is just me. And besides, it took me years to get my shape the way I like it, and  I don't want to conform to another person's idea what I should look like to wear their clothes I am paying for!   We have too much of that in RL...having to look model thin or some ideal of what others think we should look like.

 To many out there were in a hurry to get the jump on the market for mesh, that it currently is not all that great in my opinion.  In time, I think it will be better.  I do think you are going to see, like RL, specialty designers at some point that to cater to less than average AV figures, but that may take awhile. Until that time, be patient and stick with the clothing you have now...it has worked thus far...should be fine till the deformer shows up.

[Medhue Simoni]

Again, there will be no conforming your shape when the deformer is released. Designers don't have to make anything more than 1 size. That 1 size will fit every single shape possible. It might not always fit as perfectly intended, as certain things might look better if specifically made for some1 larger. Generally tho, the deformer will stretch to whatever size you are. Yes, it did deform a bit chunky in the first tests, but that is quite easily fixed, which Qarl describes in detail.

If some1 is telling you that you will still have to change your shape after the deformer is release, they have no clue what they are talking about.

[Eve Greymoon]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Again, there will be no conforming your shape when the deformer is released. Designers don't have to make anything more than 1 size. That 1 size will fit every single shape possible. It might not always fit as perfectly intended, as certain things might look better if specifically made for some1 larger. Generally tho, the deformer will stretch to whatever size you are. Yes, it did deform a bit chunky in the first tests, but that is quite easily fixed, which Qarl describes in detail.

If some1 is telling you that you will still have to change your shape after the deformer is release, they have no clue what they are talking about.

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Right, except that stretching deforms not only the shape but the texture.  It's a problem with "regular" clothing layers, and will be a problem with mesh as well.  Also like you mentioned in an earlier post, rigging matters.  I don't know the 1st thing about rigging...I only know that mesh hair moves through my breasts insead of over them.  I don't think the deformer will fix that. 

 

.

[Eve Greymoon]

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Marianne Little wrote:

The largest in standard sizes is this:

Body Fat: 24

Torso Muscle: 48

Breast Size: 71

Love Handles: 39

Belly Size: 14

Leg Muscle: 69

Butt Size: 62

Saddle Bags: 45

How much larger do you want? You could type in your vital numbers and compare with this. Since sliders go up to 100, I guess some want to have breast size 100. Since 100 is the biggest you can get with sliders, a 100 size is probably GG? I am not sure if the deformer will work well, from 71 to 100?  From what I seen, small adjustments work best, or else the texture will be deformed and we would not want that?

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Well Marianne, I'm a small.  Except for my chest.  If I wear the large it looks just that, like a garment that is way too big. But oh yeah, it still doesn't fit over my chest.  Not only that, I don't particularly want to be a 'standard' size.

Yes I am waiting eagerly for the deformer, and am excited about the possiblities.  But having the deformer will not, as you point out, solve the texture stretching issues.  One of the advatages of mesh shoes I've noticed is the textures look so much better, sharper, cleaner, with less stretching in general.  I'd like to get to take advantage of that with mesh clothing and the deformer as well, but that will never be the case if designers only make one size to begin with before the item is deformed.

 

[Medhue Simoni]

That's a great point you make about stretching textures, which also can look better with better rigging. A couple more rows of verticies would make stretching less obvious. I'm no rigging wizard, but when I made my mesh Lycan Avatar, I must have rerigged it, at least, 100 times. Granted, I was asking the mesh to bend quite a bit with all of his different movements, and it has an extremely unique rigging job for his back, head and jaw. Clothing is a bit more simple, rigging wise, but also has to go over top of another mesh, which can get real messy at the point where the joints meet. Plus, the default avatar has an extremely tight rigging job on it. There is not much blending of the weights, especially in the torso. LL really should redo the weighting a bit before we have thousands of mesh clothing designers rigging for such a tightly weighted default avatar.

[Marianne Little]

You can try a Hucci demo if you haven't already? Hucci goes different ways and offer this size selection: "Mesh items in 5 sizes, Standard size small and medium, standard size medium with larger breasts and the 2 Hucci curvy sizes." https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/HH-Hucci-Nisca-Dress-DEMO/3252469

I also bought a sundress from Beetlebones who had a genious solution, the top and skirt isn't one piece but 2 different attachments. Very interesting, since you can wear small in skirt and large in top? I tried just the same, but the other way around, xxs in top and large in skirt, and it didn't look bad. This is a genious solution, IMHO. I am the opposite of your shape, small breasts but round hips. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/BB-Shushu-Frill-Mesh-Party-Dress-DEMO/2873938

Finally Bare Rose, here is a cut from a review:

"The busty version of Night Blinger says 70 chest 30 cleavage 70 buoyancy. It will hold bigger. I'm wearing it right now with 88 shoulders, 76 boobs, 28 cleavage and 72 buoyancy, and it fits perfectly.

Compare this to some of the other sellers who offer full perm kits with a so-called curvy size that barely fits a pre-pubescent girl. I have seen one template dress that requires a 42 - yes a 42 chest.

Please support this designer. Maybe the others will get their heads out of the sand and start making stuff a majority of people can actually use." https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/BR-Night-Blinger-773-Xst/2899384

[Eve Greymoon]

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Marianne Little wrote:

You can try a Hucci demo if you haven't already? Hucci goes different ways and offer this size selection: "Mesh items in 5 sizes, Standard size small and medium,

standard size medium with larger breasts

and the 2 Hucci curvy sizes."

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/HH-Hucci-Nisca-Dress-DEMO/3252469

I also bought a sundress from Beetlebones who had a genious solution, the top and skirt isn't one piece but 2 different attachments. Very interesting, since you can wear small in skirt and large in top? I tried just the same, but the other way around, xxs in top and large in skirt, and it didn't look bad. This is a genious solution, IMHO. I am the opposite of your shape, small breasts but round hips.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/BB-Shushu-Frill-Mesh-Party-Dress-DEMO/2873938

Finally Bare Rose, here is a cut from a review:

"The busty version of Night Blinger says 70 chest 30 cleavage 70 buoyancy. It will hold bigger. I'm wearing it right now with 88 shoulders, 76 boobs, 28 cleavage and 72 buoyancy, and it fits perfectly.

Compare this to some of the other sellers who offer full perm kits with a so-called curvy size that barely fits a pre-pubescent girl. I have seen one template dress that requires a 42 - yes a 42 chest.

Please support this designer. Maybe the others will get their heads out of the sand and start making stuff a majority of people can actually use." 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/BR-Night-Blinger-773-Xst/289938

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There are a few designers who are making multiple pieces and yes, love that solution.  I suggested early early on before the deformer started combo garments with clothing layers and mesh together, but so far have seen only one dress done this way.  I will definately try those you suggested.  I haven't given up yet!

As an aside, I played with the deformer this weekend.  It deformed garments over my hips and rear end perfectly....got nowhere near over my chest.  *sighs*    I know it's not done yet, so I keep crossing my fingers.