Marketplace, Mesh & a question - your opinions please

[Gavin Hird]

Fact is that in 3Q11 Apple took 53% of all smartphone profit with a 4.2% market share. 

Fact is that iOS developers makes 6 times the profit per App compared to Android app makers (same app traded in the 2 markets)

Fact is that iOS significantly grew market share in November and December, while Andriod saw a 14,7% decline.  (US figures)

The business model you support has generally led to razor thin profits for the box and now increasingly phone assemblers, making them unable to invest in R&D for new products, but rather stay in a cut-troat raze to bring cheapest to the market and copying each other. 

This approach might work to some extent in a fast growing market (which is why it is failing in the PC market which is shrinking, and still somewhat viable for smarphones which is growing), but SecondLife is a stagnant market. There is no year-over-year groth to spot at all.

So your receipe will lead to an accelerating sprial of lower prices, and copied goods as nobody sees much incentive to develop and create any more, where everyone is scrambling for a cut of the market that exist. This ie exactly what we witness in SecondLife Marketplace. 

[Gavin Hird]

A developer program is supposed to help developers, and not stifle them.

Your comments about Apple's program is biased on that you don't like the business model, and not the fact that the program actually works great both from the developers viewpoint and from the program manager. It has helped bring both parties great revenue, growth and a staggering amount of creativity and innvovation. 

[Dartagan Shepherd]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

Fact is that in 3Q11 Apple took 53% of all smartphone profit with a 4.2% market share. 

Fact is that iOS developers makes 6 times the profit per App compared to Android app makers (same app traded in the 2 markets)

Fact is that iOS significantly grew market share in November and December, while Andriod saw a 14,7% decline.  (US figures)

The business model you support has generally led to razor thin profits for the box and now increasingly phone assemblers, making them unable to invest in R&D for new products, but rather stay in a cut-troat raze to bring cheapest to the market and copying each other. 

This approach might work to some extent in a fast growing market (which is why it is failing in the PC market which is shrinking, and still somewhat viable for smarphones which is growing),

but SecondLife is a stagnant market. There is no year-over-year groth to spot at all.

So your receipe will lead to an accelerating sprial of lower prices, and copied goods as nobody sees much incentive to develop and create any more, where everyone is scrambling for a cut of the market that exist. This ie exactly what we witness in SecondLife Marketplace. 

---

Good example, as pertains to SL.

Building business vs. building bubbles.

 

 

[Medhue Simoni]

Here is where I have to disagree. The droid market is open. Open markets reflect real market forces, while closed markets always reflect bubbles. A closed market has the luxury of decieving the public and riding on the backs of the marketing projects. If you take away the marketing, the whole thing falls apart. Apple's numbers reflect the money they dump into it. Droids don't have much of any marketing, so they perfectly reflect the real situation in the market. Being that there is little real difference between the droid and Iphone, the reality is that the Iphone can only sell if marketed.

I said at the beginning that these phones were just a fad, and the games an even larger fad. Of course, my perspective is distorted as I don't live like most people. I'm not running around all day with little time to do anything. This forces people to use devices like Iphones. Where as I get to use whatever is the proper tool. Why would any1 want to do anything serious on a tiny screen, unless it was their only option? Logically, it doesn't make sense.

I've only seen a couple of decent phone games, and Robbie Dingo did 1 that is pretty cool. Like a flight simulator with air battles or something like that. Beyond those few, I'd rather play a game on my son's 3DS. The games for phones that are complicated enough for me to play, are unplayable on that tiny screen. Looks good tho. Again, it's a fad and will die, it is only people's slave jobs, lives, and marketing that prop it up.

You gotta hand it to Apple tho. They really know how to convince people they need something that is useless. And... how to get people to pay 3 times more for something that any moron can use. I bet their next product only has 1 huge button labeled ON/OFF. Sorry to all those Apple fans, I have a sore spot for companies that trap their customers into a limited realm and then try to monopolize the learning market. Do you know how many schools require you to have a Mac. Oh, and I think those kids can even spend their college loans on a Mac. This should be criminal. My sis is going to school right now, and has a perfectly good laptop, but the school is pushing her to buy a mac, and she is beyond broke and in massive debt. They have her convinced tho. Apple is evil.

It is worth noting, I can't even use a Mac, as no program that I use even has a Mac option. It's just a paper weight to me.

[Porky Gorky]

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Ohhh and for Gavin Porky and you that all are hoping that LL will force Merchants to reveal their RL identity in order to participate in SL activities - your hopes go against the CIO of LL that has a very strong understanding and holds a very high importance in the ability for SL Customers to remain anonymous.  He has made several presentations on the reasons why.

 

 

---

Why should merchants be allowed to remain anonymous when they are taking real money from people? This isn't a game, this is business and LL continuing to allow Merchants to operate and take money from people with zero accountability is wrong. If you don't want to register at least PIOF with the company that hosts the platform you make your money from then don't sell content. Go and be a normal resident and remain anonymous. There is room anonymity in SL but not when it comes to selling content for real money.

 

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

As for Porky's belief that all Merchants must be a Premium account to be a Merchant.... sorry - I dont see any value in this and in fact all it does is not only reduce the Merchant population of possible "evil doers" it will also reduce the Merchant community size of legit merchants that do not want to be premium account holders.  There is very little value in being a premium account holder - this would simply be a tax grab for LL.

Copybotters and all other evils will simply sell more of their stuff inworld where an annual Merchant Fee is not required.

You all need to stop with the "life would be so much better if there were more Merchant fees and controls and and and" theories.  Put yourself in the shoes of most of your customers.  They dont care about your theories of what makes them buy products.....  PIOF and Premium accounts etc. doesnt do any of this.

 

---

My suggestion was made with the goal of improving accountability, streamlining the merchant community, reducing the amounts of old content that is no longer supported by innactive creators, reducing the amount of content theft and increasing LL's revenue, helping to support the company directly that has allowed us to make a shed load of money over the years. Too many people get away with running a near 100% profit operation, no land, barely any overheads to be paid to LL other than the % they take on MP sales. I know this does not describe everyone, but it does describe a significant percentage of SL. They just want to take take take without giving a damn about helping to sustain the company that made it all possible. They are here for a free ride.

As for your statement

"Copybotters and all other evils will simply sell more of their stuff inworld where an annual Merchant Fee is not required."

I said In my previous post that I wanted it to be mandatory that only premium accounts can sell content on the MP and inworld. for the specific purpose of not giving content thieves any easy ride within SL..

I want it so that people need to register their PIOF, subscibe to a premium account, After their account is 30 days old (or maybe 60?) they can register as a merchant but not before filling out a lengthy questionaire regarding copyright infringement. Then and only then will the "sell" button be available to them in the viewer in-world and only then will they be able to list items on the marketplace. This won't eliminate content theft, of course not, but I bet you every penny I have ever earned in SL that it will help reduce it.

[Gavin Hird]

In case there is anything evil in this, the evil is with your school district that has made a technology decision not everyone will like. Apple is not part of the equation.  It would swing exactly the same way if the decision was on a Windows based PC where the lock in would be on Microsoft. 

When it comes to you cannot use the Mac, you most likely can. 

Install Sun's Virtualbox (free) and you can install basically any Windows operating system lisence you own in addition to Linux, and run your Windows applications cuncurrent with Mac apps on the desktop.  

[Toysoldier Thor]

So Porky and Gavin,

forget about the debate if there should be mandatory Developer programs, PIOF, restrictions of who can sell on the current SL Marketplace.

I posted a proposal for you both and you did not answer.  If you both feel so strongly about SL having a more mature, exclusive, restrictive, elite marketplace which would be rid of old outdate content and content that is free and content that is not copybotted, why have you both not jumped on and fully endorsed the concept of creating a new (additional) ELITE MARKETPLACE?

Strange how you both did not respond to this idea.  It was so perfect in that developer / merchants like you would get the restrictions and controls you wanted in this new ELITE marketplace, and you would leave the main SL Marketplace for all the rest of the merchants that have no problem with the level of access and low barriers to entry.

Not a word about your support for this proposal.  WHY? 

 

[Gavin Hird]

Because the idea is DOA. 

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

A developer program is supposed to help developers, and not stifle them.

Your comments about Apple's program is biased on that you don't like the business model, and not the fact that the program actually works great both from the developers viewpoint and from the program manager. It has helped bring both parties great revenue, growth and a staggering amount of creativity and innvovation. 

---

Your right Gavin, a developer program is not supposed to stiffle.  and yet you have not explained how a model like your Apple model would do anything to help the sick SL MP.  What benefits would a paid "developer" get.  I asked you what documentation or access to beta from LL?  What API would you offer these paid members of the SL MP?

PS... a Developer Program does not do this... a great innovative technology and developer / user community support around the technology does - regardless of any formal DEVELOPER PROGRAM with restrictions.

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

Fact is that in 3Q11 Apple took 53% of all smartphone profit with a 4.2% market share. 

Fact is that iOS developers makes 6 times the profit per App compared to Android app makers (same app traded in the 2 markets)

Fact is that iOS significantly grew market share in November and December, while Andriod saw a 14,7% decline.  (US figures)

The business model you support has generally led to razor thin profits for the box and now increasingly phone assemblers, making them unable to invest in R&D for new products, but rather stay in a cut-troat raze to bring cheapest to the market and copying each other. 

This approach might work to some extent in a fast growing market (which is why it is failing in the PC market which is shrinking, and still somewhat viable for smarphones which is growing),

but SecondLife is a stagnant market. There is no year-over-year groth to spot at all.

So your receipe will lead to an accelerating sprial of lower prices, and copied goods as nobody sees much incentive to develop and create any more, where everyone is scrambling for a cut of the market that exist. This ie exactly what we witness in SecondLife Marketplace. 

---

I completely agree with Medhue's response to your "Apple Coolaid" posting.  You are a perfect example of one that has drank wayyyy too much of the Apple Marketing coolaid and must be a cultist.

Apple's CURRENT success has very little to do with their technology lead - they do not have a technology lead anymore on the iphone / ipad technology.  In fact Apple has to flood the media with advertising to make sure their BLIND FOLLOWING OF CUSTOMERS will still stay brainwashed and not seriously look at what the Android devices can offer them over iphones and ipads.

And why are the various android devices superior in function and capabilities over Apple?  Thats very easy - OPEN COMPETITION!  That is the same competition that PC market introduced over Apple's closed prioprietary microcomputer dominance in the early 80s.  And that is why the PC market ripped all but 10% of the market away from Apple.  The only customers back then that stayed with Apple were the CULTISTS and specific industry loyalists to Apple like the media.

Among the tenchnologies that Apple would not allow and Adroid devices do - expandable exernal memory and the freedom to support and run FLASH. There are many others but the point is that competition has allowed manufacturers to add functions and features to both the hardware and software that Apple would never allow.  This is a major flaw in Apple's past and current model.

Apple's proprietary controlled model failed them before spectacularly in the 80s and it will fail them again in the next 10 years.  Your current numbers - wherever you got them from  - will be moot because Android's already market lead on monthly unit sales over Apple will not grow linearly - it will grow exponentially over Apple.

Will the shareholders of Apple go poor in the foreseeable future?  NO.. but their closed proprietary business model is flawed as it was before.

As for your statements that Android apps are the world of free.... I guess you are so Apple cultist that you have no clue about Androids (I have one and love my Nexus S).  There are TONS of android apps that cost as much as those on the proprietary istore.  In fact, contrary to Apple, there are even multiple competing Android stores.  and now that Android sales have surpassed iphone / ipad sales, many of the developers of IOS will start developing code on BOTH platforms.  Eventually, as Apple's marketshare erodes in the years to come, the developers will start developing IOS apps as an afterthought to the android platform.

Funny Gavin... this is the same path that Apple went through in the 80s and they didnt learn their lesson.  They will only survive by making sure they keep brainwashing the APPLE CULT that its worth paying a large premium to get less function from an Apple device than the Android.

Apple's model survives ONLY BECAUSE OF ITS MARKETING... this will fail them.

My prediction for the past 12 months has been that RIM devices will eventually fully fall into the Android line and RIM has already started making moves to license out their advanced security to platforms which we know Apple would never accept but that would likely be adopted by Google's Android to increase the platform's market penetration.

 

Apples' Model is FLAWED.... time will keep this model has it has before.

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

Because the idea is DOA. 

---

Good  - so if the idea is bad for you.... even with it being the perfect environment - then dont go around trying to promote the restriction of the current MP platofrm from 90 % of the current marketplace with new hurdles and ELITE paid memberships.

 

Its funny how a proposed idea that excludes YOU from the main MP is a DOA idea but one that excludes a massive portion of the current Merchant community from MP is a great idea.

cant drink your own coolaid?

[Gavin Hird]

Good riddance flash. The most malware and battery hungry technology ever brought to mobile handsets. It is so rotten even Adobe has abandoned it on mobile devices. 

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

Good riddance flash. The most malware and battery hungry technology ever brought to mobile handsets. It is so rotten even Adobe has abandoned it on mobile devices. 

---

Why did I already know you would miss the point on this?

So let me point out the big picture for an Apple Cultist that is blind to why the Apple Model is flawed...

The fact that Steve J. from Apple could arbitrarily decide & dictate and restrict a technology or solution from his company's customer base for whatever reasons he sees fit is the flaw in the model. 

You can love or hate FLASH but the fact that as bad as it is on a mobile device's battery does not dismiss the fact that the large use of FLASH on countless websites is not available to ANY APPLE DEVICES because Steve J. said so is the problem. 

It was not because Steve J. so much hated how Flash for mobile was bad for his device's batteries that Steve hate Flash.  If you think that is the reason... you are fooling yourself.  The bigger reason Steve hated Flash and refused to allow any developers to create a flash foundation/app for iphones/ipads is because of the loss of control.

But again... the reasons or debate on why FLASH was or was not allowed on Apple devices is not the critical point.  Its the fact that Apple's restrictive developers closed model would not allow the Developers the freedom to develop what the developer wants to develop.

Why do you think Apple's own IOS restrictive closed model is under attack upon itself own development environment with the huge popularity of JAILBREAK?  If Apple's developer model is soooo great and perfect and promotes progress and innovation, then why has JAILBREAK and the non-official JAILBREAK developer community been so successful?

I will tell you why.  Because Apple's closed restrictive developer model is flawed for unnatural restriction of COMPETITIVE FORCES AND INNOVATION.

Apple never learns - they just love to MARKET and BRAINWASH the WEAKER MINDED CONSUMERS that are too scared to look and try and learn new better solutions.  This will ultimately fail like it did before.

Tying back to this SL MP topic... you proved my point again when your response to my idea of creating a new ELITE MP is DOA.  Its DOA because your model of restrictive development and controls is not successful as a model that can support itself.  You just want to take a hugely popular MP and now kick out the UNDESERABLES and make MP your own.

Arent you nice.

[Gavin Hird]

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Its the fact that Apple's restrictive developers closed model would not allow the Developers the freedom to develop what the developer wants to develop.

 

---

Yep, we see a lot of evidence of that in the App store! 

Your remarks about Apple and marketing is basically – clueless. It is the typical knee jerk response of a technology driven mindset which is typical for a company like Nokia for instance. They and Microsoft litterally owned the smartphone market. But marketing cluelessness has driven Nokia to shed 8000 workers and abandon their own OS, Symbian, to team up with the next looser in the queue; Microsoft with a staggering 1.5% market share for smartphones. 

The vast majority of smartpone users do not jailbreak their phones. They don't need to. They don't know how to. They don't even care. 

The was majority of smartphone users never use the memory card slot.

The was majority of smartphone users do perfectly fine without flash. What happens when they encounter a flash based site, they just leave. So it is a lost customer for those who insist on sticking with yesterday's solutions. 

 

 

[Porky Gorky]

Lets not get bogged down in semantics, worrying about who is right or wrong. Gavin is clearly right, the sooner we all accept that and move on, the better.

:smileyhappy:

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Its the fact that Apple's restrictive developers closed model would not allow the Developers the freedom to develop what the developer wants to develop.

 

---

Yep, we see a lot of evidence of that in the App store! 

Your remarks about Apple and marketing is basically – clueless. It is the typical knee jerk response of a technology driven mindset which is typical for a company like Nokia for instance. They and Microsoft litterally owned the smartphone market. But marketing cluelessness has driven Nokia to shed 8000 workers and abandon their own OS, Symbian, to team up with the next looser in the queue; Microsoft with a staggering 1.5% market share for smartphones. 

The vast majority of smartpone users do not jailbreak their phones. They don't need to. They don't know how to. They don't even care. 

The was majority of smartphone users never use the memory card slot.

The was majority of smartphone users do perfectly fine without flash. What happens when they encounter a flash based site, they just leave. So it is a lost customer for those who insist on sticking with yesterday's solutions. 

 

 

---

LOL  Spoken like a true and pure Apple FanBoy...  Clueless from the Apple Marketing Cloak that is wrapped around him.

"Flash is crap and any website that uses Flash is not a site that Steve's Fanboy community should go to anyway". LOL  The truth is when an Apple Fanboy user goes to a flash integrated site they HAVE to leave since Steve has dictate they are not allowed to see it.  No Freedom.  But of course as you have just proven, Steve has done such a good brainwashing job on you - a Steve "JOB" - that you have been convinced that site that do not meet his standards are not worthy of your visit.  WOW how sad a statement that is.

There is not arguing with an Apple Fanboy... you will believe anything that Apple pumps out and you will upgrade to the latest Apple technology and believe that until Apple endorses it - its not real technology. 

LOL  Wait until Apple ever introduce expandable external memory cards for your iphone Gavin.... what a great technology you wont ever know   - but of course Gavin - since Apple told you that SD card slots for an iphone is not needed and its better to just throw out your iphone and buy an iphone with more memory - that must be the BEST WAY?  lol

You apple fanboys kill me with laughter and brainwashed you are.

As for JailBreak not being popular??  ARE YOU KIDDING ME??  Actually the truth is that the need for the large community that loved JAILBREAK is dropping - you are correct - because these customers are all switching to Android where they have a platform that openly supports the freedom to develop software and hardware and competition that promotes innovation.  So you are right in one sense... less and less of Apple's fanbase is using JailBreak because Android is a far better option than a JailBroke limited Apple technology.

My Brother is an Electrical Engineer for a new innovative hardware platform where they wanted to expand this device's interfaces to both the Apple ipad/iphone devices and to the Android platform.  They became an Apple hardware partner (which was FAR from an easy feat when you have to go through all of Apple's restrictions to interface development).  One of the hurdles / controls when working with Apple was that his company had to include a mandatory control chip in the flow between their device and the Apple device.  The ONLY purpose for this apple chip is to allow Apple to monitor and control the interface.  It served no other functional purpose for anyone else.

So.... again... no need to debate this... its clear you are one of the pure Apple Fanboys - you will only believe and promote what Apple has brainwashed you to believe.  You will be an apple user 5 years from now when Android far surpasses Apples' marketshare and technology capabilities.

  so back to the matter at hand.... how you called an ELITE MP to suit your needs for a restrictive MP... DOA? huh? lol

 

[Gavin Hird]

In case you did not understand it, the flow control chip is there to ensure the hardware partners are protected from crap devices flooding the market and ruining their development efforts. 

It also has other purposes. 

[Ciaran Laval]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

Why should merchants be allowed to remain anonymous when they are taking real money from people? This isn't a game, this is business and LL continuing to allow Merchants to operate and take money from people with zero accountability is wrong. If you don't want to register at least PIOF with the company that hosts the platform you make your money from then don't sell content. Go and be a normal resident and remain anonymous. There is room anonymity in SL but not when it comes to selling content for real money.

 

---

You're getting very close to be careful what you wish for territory here, the next logical question being if only piof people can sell, why shouldn't the same apply to those who buy, as where else are they getting their Linden dollars from to buy the goods?

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

In case you did not understand it, the flow control chip is there to ensure the hardware partners are protected from crap devices flooding the market and ruining their development efforts. 

It also has other purposes. 

---

So now you are talking like an APPLE STAFFER - a brainwasher - not the brainwashed....

OK Gavin... the chip is only for the greater good and serve no purpose of Apple's ultimate control of the development / hardware environment.

What UTTER APPLE BS!  The chip is for Apple's control of their partners.  End of Story.  But you are obviously paid to keep the Apple propaganda in tact and not let darker deeper Apple secrets get out.

My Brother's company could have easily integrated without this chip.  They didnt need it.  It served them no benefit and only added to the complexity of integrating into the Apple platform.

but enough.... I wont respond anymore to Apple Brainwashing...

To make you feel better..... Porky is right... YOU ARE RIGHT... APPLE IS GOD and no other platform nor its model will ever supplant Apples world wide dominance and superiority.  Android is just a fad and it will go away in short time.

ROFL  Feel better now?

[Gavin Hird]

I'll let the earnings statement tonight talk for itself. 

... and if you had looked at my CV, I have worked in Apple product management. 

[Medhue Simoni]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

In case there is anything evil in this, the evil is with your school district that has made a technology decision not everyone will like. Apple is not part of the equation.  It would swing exactly the same way if the decision was on a Windows based PC where the lock in would be on Microsoft. 

When it comes to you cannot use the Mac, you most likely can. 

Install Sun's Virtualbox (free) and you can install basically any Windows operating system lisence you own in addition to Linux, and run your Windows applications cuncurrent with Mac apps on the desktop.  

---

I really don't care what operating system I use, I just want to use a system with the most options. That happens to be Windows. Apple makes contracts with the schools. So, the schools have a reason to promote Apple. See, Apple knows, if you get them early, they will be good loyal slaves for the rest of their lives. Microsoft can't really do this cause Windows comes on all the rest of the different pc manufacturers. At some point, I will learn how to use a Lynux system.

Why would I pay 3 times more for a Mac, just to put windows on it? I could understand if a Mac does all these things that a normal pc doesn't, but it doesn't have anything special in it. Not 1 thing, and it can't do 1 thing better than a normal pc. I'd rather buy 3 pcs, which I have 4. All of my pcs have different set ups to test things on.

Plus, I use all kinds of different programs. I get asked to test lots of programs. I also seek out independent programers, which i love to support. Why would I buy something I can't use the latest technology on. Why would I purposely hold myself back? Heck, I would not even be doing motion capture right now if I was using a Mac. Saying I can spend 3 times the money and then buy Windows, that is just non sensical.

I would not say that Apple's business model is flawed, cause it really comes down to the markets they control and how much they can convince people to use their stuff. This is why they want to dominate the educational market.

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

I'll let the earnings statement tonight talk for itself. 

... and if you had looked at my CV, I have worked in Apple product management. 

---

LOL....  no i did not look at your CV (what is a CV). 

But in hearing the purity of your APPLE Propaganda as your posts continued on, it didnt take much effort to conclude that you were more than just a Brainwashed Apple FanBoy.... you had to have been one of those at Apple that generates the Marketing Propaganda.

This puts all your posts in complete perspective.

And just to clarify my position.... I am not an employee of Apple nor Google nor any company or manufacturer that would gain anything by me promoting Android or Apple.

In fact this spring I went through a huge due diligence personally on which tablet and which smartphone to jump into.  I was not commited historically to either.

I have always despised Apple's "NIKE" type model for success combined with their long history of controling closed architecture.  Their technology has never been leading edge but their marketing was all they have had going for them. 

LOL - look at the iPOD... this was the posterchild example where a hugely limited MP3 playter technology was turned into a market leader only because Apple brainwashed enough consumers that "we do not have an MP3 player we have something far better - an iPOD!  I does not have expanded 3rd party memory slots.  It does not have voice recorder.  No AM/FM radio feature.  And you cannot get music into it via any way but through Apple's proprietary iTunes spy app..... but wow... its have amazing color designs and fancy touch wheel and white headset wires."  And the countless brainwashed apple fans that blindly bought ipod over all the other MP3 players with far better features...  MARKETING OVER POOR TECHNOLOGY.

Anyway... I still looked at all the pros and cons between an ipad over Zoom.  The Zoom had more technical features to the ipad and more importantly it ran on a platform that that was open and not restricted / controlled by one maker (Apple).  So I bought a ZOOM.  Love it.   Then I decided for me smartphone that Samsung Nexus S was the hands down fave over iphone in technology as well as openess.  Also, I had fellow techies that were heavy Apple Fans that even abandoned iphone and moved to Nexus S.  These are pure Tech Geeks who previously loved Apple.  So that was a no brainer.

Conclusion... my talk is not biased.  Now that we know your history, this topic is dead.

[Gavin Hird]

Again, this is a matter between your family and the school, and is really irrelevant to this discussion. Why don't you ask for their evaluation criteria when choosing a standard for the students?

As a good exercise for yourself, why don't you spec up PC models with the exact same specs as Macs and see if you land in the 3-4 to one price range? Have fun. ;-)

[Gavin Hird]

You don't have to be brainwashed to see that Apple is doing something right in the market, and that their developer program works?

As much as you seem to despise good marketing, that is really something this place needs more of. ;-)

As far as listing all your memory slots and whatnot, paint me unimpressed. :-)))

[Medhue Simoni]

Why would you think I'm not comparing specs, what else would I be comparing? Plus, a pc has lots of specs at all different price ranges. Look what you are doing, you are making excuses for Apple. If you were so confident that Apple is the way to go, then you would strictly compare the specs on a Mac, with the specs on a PC of the same price. We all know that the PC would be a beast compared to the Mac. Being that everything I do needs high end specs, a Mac would not even be able to handle a few of the programs I use. Heck, just my mocap system, even if I could use a Mac, it would run slow as dirt compared to a PC of the same price.