mesh - highest lod doesn't rez at all - cause traffic shaping by internet provider

[Chosen Few]

Max, calm down, man.  You're flying off the handle for no reason, whatsoever.  I've never seen anyone react this way on any forum, ever.  You feeling OK?  Seriously, should we be worried?

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

As i thought! No links. You are just a liar.

 

POST A LINK to your website, with your portfolio and your CONTACTS! AS I DID! i'm MASSIMO CIVITA AND THIS IS MY WEBSITE:

WWW.HOKMAPH.NET

---

Look, I won't be posting any links, so you can get that idea right out of your head.  That doesn't make me a liar, although you're free to think whatever you want.

Once again, I'll give you the exact same answer I give everyone else.  If you've got a project you'd like to discuss, we can do that, and I'll be happy to provide you with a prospectus, indluding a porfolio of related past work, along with a project proposal.  If you accept the proposal, we will exchange all pertinent information, per the signing of a legally binding agreement for the work.  Short of that, you're not gonna get anything out of me by yelling at me on a forum.  Sorry, but that just ain't how the world works.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?

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Who I am in RL is none of your business.  Who I am on these forums is someone who volunteers a considerable amount of time trying to help people, including you.  If you don't want the help, that's fine.  Just don't read my posts.  There's no reason to react the way you are.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT?

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What I want is for everyone here, including you, to have the best possible opportunity to learn from me, and I from them.  That's all.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

YOU DON'T LIKE MY AVIES? DON'T BUY IT!

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I never said I didn't like your avatars.  All I said was that if they're really 40,000 polygons apiece, then that's likely the reason they're getting blocked by traffic shaping.  Why you keep insisting on making more out of it than that, I honestly have no idea.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

YOU THINK I'VE TO WORK AS YOU SAY I SHOULD?

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Do I think you have to?  No, of course not. You don't HAVE to do anything at all.

Do I think you should you should strive for greater efficiency as a low poly modeler?  Yes, which was why I made the suggestion in the first place.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE TO GIVE ME ORDERS!

(WITH THOSE RENDERINGS MADE IN 1993)

---

I didn't give you any orders, Max.  I couldn't, even if I wanted to, not that I ever would.  You're under no obligation to listen to anything I have to say.  If you're wise, you'll take the advice to heart.  If you're not, you'll ignore it.  It's entirely up to you.  Either way, there are no orders here.

As for the images I posted, their dates range from 2005-2010.  SL did not exist in 1993. 

Also, so you know, with the exception of the shoes, they're not renderings.  They're all screenshots.  I just didn't happen to have a screenhot of the shoes handy at the moment I posted the pics.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

YOU ARE NOT HELPING WITH STREAMING PROBLEMS, THIS IS THE TOPIC FOR! ( YOU DON'T EVEN POSTED YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER, YOU TROLL)

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Fact:  You stated you were having trouble getting high poly models to load, due to traffic shaping.

Fact:  You stated your low poly models have no such troubles.

Inescapable Conclusion:  Your high poly models would get through, if they weren't as high.

Where's the disconnect?

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

( YOU DON'T EVEN POSTED YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER, YOU TROLL)

---

I'm supposed to post my Internet provider?  Really?  Whatever for?

Uh, OK.  You ready?  It's Time Warner Cable.  Happy now?  I fail to see how that relates in any way to anything we've been discussing, or even to your wild imaginings that I'm a troll.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MY AVIES?

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No, not particularly.  Within the context of this discussion, I don't care if we're talking about your tiger man, or a giant blob, or a simple box.  If the model has too many polygons in it, then the file that describes it will be too big to get past the traffic shaping you created this thread to discuss.  A solution, therefore, is to use less polygons.  That's it, and that's all.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MESH FACES?

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Withing the context of how they relate to streaming, yes.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

LOOK AT THIS TOPIC I'VE OPENED JUST FOR A TROLL LIKE YOU:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849

---

Yes, I saw that thread.  I opted not to get involved with it, after the ridiculous manner in which you reacted to my presence here.

I also saw it as redundant, since both threads are essentially talking about exactly the same thing.  Render cost and streaming cost are a direct function of the amount of polygons in your model.  If you've got too many, both will be detrimentally affected.

Since you say you created the thread "just for a troll", does that mean you're calling everyone involved with thread a troll?  There are some good folks in that discussion, none of whom are trolls, by the usual definition.  Again, I have to ask, does "troll" mean something different wherever you're from?

 

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

oh wow this is a very surprise for me! thank you great builder that you are for this great advice, maybe you didn't read all my replies, were i told to you :

 

I HAD PROBLEMS BEFORE CHANGING ISP, WITH STREAMING VIDEO TOO, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH BYTES YOU DOWNLOAD!

 

YOU ARE BLIND? YOU CAN SEE THE PICTURE OF MY AVIE? I'VE CHANGED PROVIDER AND NOW IT WORKS

---

Good lord, man.  I'm seriously wondering if you're about to blow an aneurism, or have a heart attack or something.  Where are you getting all that anger?  It's simply unbelievable.

For the record, yes, I've read everything you've said here.  But none of it is in contrast with the quote to which you replied, so I fail to see your point.

Here are the facts so far:

1.  You said your highest LOD models weren't getting through, due to traffic shaping.

2.  You said your lower LOD models were getting through, just fine.

3.  You said large file size was the issue.

4.  You ALSO said you changed ISP's, to sidestep the problem altogether.

Number four doesn't erase numbers 1-3.  Clearly if you had problems receiving your high poly meshes, then others who are subject to similar traffic shaping will have similar problems.  The only way you can help them is to make lower poly meshes that they WILL be able to receive.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

THE PROBLEM IS THE TRAFFIC SHAPING DONE ABOUT PROVIDERS, THAT CAN AFFECTS ANY TYPE OF STREAMING IN SL, AND THIS IS THE TOPIC ABOUT

IS YOUR ISP DOING TRAFFIC SHAPING ON YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION?

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Understood.  You're the one who said that if a file is too large, then traffic shaping will block it.  The obvious solution, therefore, is to work with smaller files.  The way to do that, if we're talking about mesh models, is to use less polygons.

It's simple logic.  I don't understand why you're freaking out over it.  I truly don't.

 

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

NO?

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT THEN?

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I've been pretty clear about what I want.  What I don't understand is what YOU want. 

You created a thread that pertains to a particular topic.  I responded within the context of that topic.  The content of my reply was somewhat different than you'd expected, obviously.  But that doesn't make it any less valid.

Rather than continue discussing the topic, you've instead spent the better part of the last 12 hours accusing me of all kinds of ulterior motives, calling me names, hurling insult after insult in my direction, for no discernible reason whatsoever. 

All that, and then you call ME the troll.  You're trolling your own thread, dude.  It's pretty pathetic.

[Medhue Simoni]

I didn't think I was being snarky, just stating what I see. I commented on this thread early, because I was seeing the same thing. I'll be dropping my ISP later this month. Dang crooks even changed my whole contract with them and I only had 2 months to go. And they limited my overall download amount. Do they really think I'm gonna stay with them? They did all this to scam an extra 10 bucks a month.

The point I was making is that, non of us come here and start a specific thread about something only to have it derailed. Sometimes a derailing is warranted, other times they are fun. When you are looking for a specific answer tho, wading thru page long comments about polygons tends to get annoying. There is no need to argue about it. Make your statement and let it be. As you remembered my sonic tool, I would hope that you remember that I also asked that we not discuss polygons, as that was not the issue, nor why I posted the topic. Yet, that thread went on for pages all about polygons. It wasted my time, as well as yours.

Ok, I do tend to generalize alot, and I apologize for that. I'm definitely not saying that you do this all the time, but to say it is not a common theme for you, would be false. Most of the time, I'm quite happy that you show people what can be done. It saves me or some1 else the time to explain things. Please don't question my motives, cause that goes both ways. The last thing you are ever going to see me do in the Animation forum is show some1 else how I can make what they did and better. I'll show pictures or diagrams of something to help them, but I'm not going to redo what they just did. That is just weird, unless there is some big debate over it. Unless they have no clue, all you are doing is showing off.

Oh, and my average sale price is quite a bit higher than your estimates. Why you felt the need to examine it, i have no clue.

[MaxTux Wonder]

Thank you for all moderators, i've waited 2 days after the first report. And still nobody came.

 

Now i'm trying to explain to a troll that a totally legitimate mesh with an expected polycount, as totally legitimate video streaming and audio streaming do not work, under traffic shaping.

 

And he tells to me how i've to do my work. AGAIN. HE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IS NOT A BUILDER FAULT IF THE STREAMING AUDIO-VIDEO-MESH DO NOT WORK, AND THAT I CAN'T DO CRAPPY AVIES JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IN ITALY WITH FASTWEB IS AFFECTED BY TRAFFIC SHAPING

 

What is the polycount limit for a mesh:

65k

Well, my next avie will be exactly 65k with an armor of 65k, and fur and hair of 65k

 

You know why troll? Because even in this case my avie will cost less in rendering cost than other prims/sculpty avies, and will have less faces than similar avies (and i explained why in the other topic i linked to you), and will looks better, and will sell more of course.

Now go to bother Tonktastic that made boots for 229400 faces:

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

You can do far worse than 65k triangles... you can use 65k vertices. Not that you would be doing the grid or anyone on it any favours though...

[MaxTux Wonder]

I don't think i can do worse than boots for  229400 faces like i posted up. (greats boots anyway, love it)

Anyway the limits are about triangles, you can't use 65k vertices on meshes, will just not upload.

[leliel Mirihi]

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

AND THAT I CAN'T DO CRAPPY AVIES JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IN ITALY WITH FASTWEB IS AFFECTED BY TRAFFIC SHAPING

 

What is the polycount limit for a mesh:

65k

Well, my next avie will be exactly

65k

with an armor of

65k

, and fur and hair of

65k

 

You know why troll? Because even in this case my avie will cost less in rendering cost than other prims/sculpty avies, and will have less faces than similar avies (and i explained why in the other topic i linked to you), and will looks better, and will sell more of course.

Now go to bother Tonktastic that made boots for 

229400 faces:

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I really love this argument, it's like a catch all, no matter what anyone says you can just reply "If I'm not using all available resources than my creations are low quality and butt ugly".

It's the perfect counter to everything, because any argument otherwise would by necessity mean not using all available resources and can thus be dismissed out of hand.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

I don't think i can do worse than boots for

 

229400 faces like i posted up. (greats boots anyway, love it)

Anyway the limits are about triangles, you can't use 65k vertices on meshes, will just not upload.

---

From the wiki:

There is not a maximum # of triangles a model can have, however the number of vertices is limited to 65,536.

Second Life wiki

On these forums we figured out with mesh you certainly CAN do worse with mesh than with sculpts. In theory you can wear around a billion faces with mesh, with sculpts "only" 17 million. Not saying that you should:)

And please don't get worked up over Chosen's posts. Chosen can sometimes sound like a broken record, but that's because a lot of issues have the same reason, if anyone is a positive contributor to these creation forums it has to be Chosen.

People will read your original post first, the one with the link to the jira. I don't think there is anything that can be said on the forums about it, so in my opinion it doesn't matter in which direction the thread spins. Neither do I think it's an issue SL should give priority. As has been replied to your jira, it's an issue with the ISP. Yes LL could make changes so the problem is less likely to occur, but so can creators.

[MaxTux Wonder]

i got your sarcasm, but what you're saying is true.

 

As a builder i've to compete with 200k - 400k faces furry avies as you can see in this topic i linked before:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Rendering-cost-Mesh-VS-Prims-sculpty-who-is-better/td-p/1312849

 

and with just 65k faces i can do a better avie.

 

Of course if i do an hamster i can use only 10k faces:

 

But if i want to compete with other bulky furries sellers, that use 200k - 400k faces for the avie, i've to use all the resources i've.

And 65k is nothingh compared to 200k - 400k

Of course you cant tell me how i should i work, but as i told in the topic, the only people that can actually tells me what should i do, is LL and my customers

 

Happened something similar when i did a very high poly armor, and after asking to a Linden, he told me that was better to do a lower version, so i did.

Of course every jira is directed to Lindens not to users, users have to add their own experiences about the jira report, not vilify (thanks to Few for the correction he did before, english is not my first language) the work of someone that is actually spotting an SL problem as Few did in this topic.

 

And anyway, i tried to be polite, for 3 times. Chosen Few can be the best man  on the world, i don't care, just i don't like who use tones of arrogance.

I guess is a grown up if he works for the government, etc... and i can accept this type of attitude from a children, older people have to behave like growns up, and when you actually doing something like a bug report (that is not a chat) it's very bothering to see someone vilify your work. telling something like: "you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" when probably is wearing a couple of boots that costs 4 times my full body avatar.

 

A grown up would act with humble methods, and if someone like to play baby, i'm no more obbligated to be polite and i can just tell the truth.

 

I don't know how works in America, but in Italy, an off topic is a serious issue.

 

Anyway. Sure i can create a great avie with 9000 faces, an hamster, as i did. Or a standard SL avie with flat pecs, cube feet and hairs that looks like this:

or i can just use more faces and do something more... you know... cool

[MaxTux Wonder]

The wiki is wrong, i tried of course, do not work, the limit is 65k faces!

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I tried aswell, the wiki is right...

[MaxTux Wonder]

really? bud i didn't succeded! i will try again...

[Chosen Few]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

The point I was making is that, non of us come here and start a specific thread about something only to have it derailed.

---

 

Agreed, but I'm not the one who derailed it.  All I did was point out a contributing factor to the problem, in all of seven sentences.  The thread remained on-topic, until Max flipped out a few hours later.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

When you are looking for a specific answer tho, wading thru page long comments about polygons tends to get annoying.

---

The comments about polygons were very much a part of the specific answer.  If this traffic shaping is common enough that it's affecting a good amount of the potential market for mesh avatars, then it stands to reason that a good solution is to create content that is traffic-shaping-friendly.  I don't understand for the life of me why anyone would see a problem with that suggetion.

That said, if you think my posts are annoying, no one's forcing you to read them.  I have t say I'm surprised, though.  I really thought you and I had a pretty good rapport going.  Ah well.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

There is no need to argue about it. Make your statement and let it be.

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There was no argument, until Max decided to turn it into one.  Until that point, it was a perfectly healthy discussion.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

As you remembered my sonic tool, I would hope that you remember that I also asked that we not discuss polygons, as that was not the issue, nor why I posted the topic. Yet, that thread went on for pages all about polygons. It wasted my time, as well as yours.

---

I do remember you making that request, yes. But discussions evolve as people participate.  Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you get to dictate the direction of the conversation.

It absolutely wasn't a waste of time.  Several people were involved in that discussion, and I was under the impression that we were all getting something valuable from it. I'm sorry if you felt otherwise.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Ok, I do tend to generalize alot, and I apologize for that. I'm definitely not saying that you do this all the time, but to say it is not a common theme for you, would be false.

---

It's a common theme because it's a topic that relates directly to, and inseparably from, just about every other topic that has to do with mesh modeling.  Any discussion of the applications of mesh without talking about polygons would be like trying to talk about cooking without acknowledging that heat exists, or trying to talk about swimming without also talking about water.  It's simply impossible to do.

I've been doing the same thing for years, on every such universally intertwined topic, and on the whole, the community has been better off for it.  Want some examples?

On the texturing forum, we used to get literally three to ten question per day on "What's an alpha channel" and "How do I make an alpha channel?" along with all manner of related questions that people didn't even realize were in fact related, until I, and others, explained it to them.  My definitive guide on the subject became the very first post ever stickied on the SL content creation forums, and you know what happened then?  The frequency of those questions dropped from 3-10 per day to 1-2 per month, and then to just a handful per year.

Here's another example.  Texture size abuse used to be incredibly rampant in SL.  The vast majority of content creators didn't see any problem whatsoever slapping a 1024x1024 onto a little 2-foot sign that no one would ever zoom in on in a million years.  Then they'd bitch and moan about al the insufferable lag in SL, not at all aware that their own actions were the direct cause.  So, I made it my mission to harp on it at every opportunity, for a VERY long time.  And you know what happened?  People learned.  Those kinds of silly abuses became far less common.

When sculpties came along, and people tried to use them for everything, it wasn't long before the whining began about "sculpty lag", and how awful it was.  So, then it became my mission to speak at every occurance about the best ways to use sculpties and prims harmoniously, in order to capitalize on the best aspects of both, in order to create builds that were both great looking and low-lag.  Once again, people learned.

Now we have the very same ignorance-based abuses going on with respect to mesh poly counts.  So once again, I'm compelled to act.  I will continue to call attention to the subject at every appropriate opportunity.  That's not a derailment of any topic.  It's a completion of it.  As I've said a few times now, these things don't exist in isolation.

Don't get me wrong, by the way.  I'm not trying to take full credit for the evolution of knowledge of best practices in SL.  But the grapevine often begins here on the forums, and I make a point of actively playing as significant a role in helping to drive  that as I possibly can.  So do quite a few other good souls here.

We spoke in our last round about marketing.  Well, one of the principle tenets of marketing is that the average person needs to see an ad at least five times before he or she will respond to it.  That's just a fact of human psychology.  Good teachers use this principle in classrooms all the time, by making sure to repeat the content from any one lesson in at least five other lessons.  Good salesmen do it by making sure to ask for a yes or no decision at least five times from each customer (80% of all sales are closed upon the fifth attempt).  It's no different here.

If you find that annoying, I don't know that there's much I can do about that.  All I can say is that it's effective.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Most of the time, I'm quite happy that you show people what can be done. It saves me or some1 else the time to explain things. Please don't question my motives, cause that goes both ways.

---

I didn't mean to imply I was questioning your motives.  I'm at a loss as to what you even mean by the comment.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

The last thing you are ever going to see me do in the Animation forum is show some1 else how I can make what they did and better. I'll show pictures or diagrams of something to help them, but I'm not going to redo what they just did. That is just weird, unless there is some big debate over it. Unless they have no clue, all you are doing is showing off.

---

It's not about showing off.  If you take it that way, then now I very well may have to begin questioning your motives, or at the very least your general outlook on what education is supposed to be, because people tend to project onto others what they see in themselves.

Yes, I have, on occasion, taken the liberty of demonstrating how a particular model could be more efficiently constructed, while yielding the same appearance.  I've only done it a handful of times, and only where I felt it essential for furthering understanding (whether it be the OP's understanding of the solution, or my own understanding of the question).  Believe me, I'd rather just talk about it than take the extra time to actually demonstrate.  But sometimes, a picture really is the best way to go.

With just one or two exceptions I can think of who expressed no apparent opinion one way or the other, everyone I've ever taken the time do that for has thanked me profusely.  None of them took it as showing off.  Why would you?

In any case, that wasn't done here, so why bring it up here?

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Oh, and my average sale price is quite a bit higher than your estimates. Why you felt the need to examine it, i have no clue.

---

Glad to hear you're doing so well, really.  To answer your question, the reason I broke down the numbers was to explain why I don't choose to do off-the-shelf work, in terms to which I was hoping you could relate, given what you'd already said.  It wasn't meant to be an examination of you or your numbers.

 

 

Now, how about we drop all the personal stuff, and return to the real discussion?  Sound good?

[Chosen Few]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I tried aswell, the wiki is right...

---

 

As did I.  We had a whole thread on the subject.  It was a fun one.

[MaxTux Wonder]

Quote: "There was no argument, until Max decided to turn it into one.  Until that point, it was a perfectly healthy discussion."

 

OH, CHECK IT OUT THE SECOND PAGE WERE YOU TELL:

"you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" when YOU probably wearing a couple of boots that costs 4 times my full body avatar.

Or you go around without shoes, hair and prim clothes? hypocrite that's pretends to be a builder and doesn't know how much object faces an avie is carrying around!  

TROLL

 

this is one of the standards sl avie you can pick up at the start of the game:

the jacket is 14336 faces

the left boot is 14336 faces

the right boot is 14336 faces

and the hair 10000 faces

 

+7k for the avatar body 

but of course, you great experienced builder, you don't knew it.

 

you can do math great builder? who is heavier, my mesh avatar or a standard sl avatar that you pick up at the start?

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I tried with a 255x255 plane, right at the limit of 65536, that didn't upload. The dae file was 22 MB and took a long time to load, then it crashed with a time out warning in the log.

So I tried the above, just to show it is possible to have more than 65k faces. (the file was 13MB) I have succeeded in uploading bigger models in the past... I wouldn't even think of putting them on sale though...

[leliel Mirihi]

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

i got your sarcasm, but what you're saying is true.

---

I was half serious, I really do think it's a great argument, just not one I agree with.

---

and with just 65k faces i can do a better avie.

---

Can you please stop using the term faces, it's a very ambiguous term. I don't know if you mean triangles or quads or what, it's very confusing. Can you please use triangles, it's what GPUs uses and it's much easier to make sense of.

---

But if i want to compete with other bulky furries sellers, that use 200k - 400k faces for the avie, i've to use all the resources i've.

And 65k is nothingh compared to 200k - 400k

Of course you cant tell me how i should i work, but as i told in the topic, the only people that can actually tells me what should i do, is LL and my customers

---

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I'm just saying I think the amount of resources you're using may be a bit much. There is no other game in the world that uses so many triangles for its avatars. Yes there are avatars as bad or worse in sl, but two wrongs don't make a right, just a bigger wrong.

The only game even close to what you're making (AFAIK) is Uncharted 2/3 which uses 20k triangles for the main characters.

[Chosen Few]

Max, drop the attitude already, will ya?  Today is a new day, and you've had more than enough time to get yourself out of whatever freaked out emotional state you might have been in yesterday.  You didn't like what I had to say.  We all get that.  Time to move on.

For the record, my avatar has no boots.  Repeatedly calling me "troll" isn't going to cause her to wear any.

 

As for that default avatar, what exactly is your point?  So it was poorly modeled; so what?  It's not the first time LL has made such mistakes, and it probably won't be the last. Most likely, they asked a few residents for submissions, and they took what they were given.  That's how most of the library content got there.  Some of it's we'll made, some isn't.

 

Wasn't it you who wanted to talk about network traffic?  Why do you keep talking about anything and everything but?

[Chosen Few]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I tried with a 255x255 plane, right at the limit of 65536, that didn't upload. The dae file was 22 MB and took a long time to load, then it crashed with a time out warning in the log.

---

Interesting.  You must have found a way to be even more inefficient than what we uncovered in our inefficiency experiments in that other thread.  Cool.  My dae file for my 65,536-vertex sphere was only 8MB.  I wonder what's in yours that makes it nearly 3 times larger.

 

[MaxTux Wonder]

Few, i will drop my attitude when you will admit that you wrote this: "you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh" you didn't know how to check how much triangles is your avie currently using.

Today is a new day, but i've no intentions to bend in front of a troll that pretends to teach me how i should do my work.

Your avatars have no shoes? great for you, you will have for sure a great polycount on your naked avie, but half secondlife is not naked, is wearing shoes, jacket, hairs, jewelery over a furry sculpted avatar. for more than 400 tris over them. As i demonstrated in the other topic i've asked you to follow.

i will talk about network traffic when you will tell me that you are experiencing traffic shaping on your internet connection. This was the topic about.

You are not experiencing traffic shaping? Go on the other topic i've made just for you to talk about heavyness of avatars, and don't bother here.

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Should I post a 23 MB textfile here so you can have a look?

My dae exports are 1.4.0, but the difference in filesize is really big....

[Chosen Few]

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

Few, i will drop my attitude when you will admit that you wrote this: 

"

you've got an absurdly high amount of polygons in your mesh

" you didn't know how to check how much triangles is your avie currently using.

---

You want me to admit was is not true?  Sorry, but I can't do that.

Tell me, from what evidence do you draw this highly imaginitive assumption of yours that I don't know how to check the triangle count of my own avatar?  Poly count is a subject to which I pay a great deal of attention, as should be more than obvious to you by now.  Whether or not you agree with my judgments about how many is too many, surely you must at least realize that I know how many are there.  It would be simply ludicrous for you to think otherwise.  Or have we now given up on thinking, as well?

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

Today is a new day, but i've no intentions to bend in front of a troll that pretends to teach me how i should do my work.

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So that's it, then?  Your pride simply won't allow you to move on in a productive manner, for no other reason than that it's what I suggested you do?  Wow.  Tell me, if I told you not to jump off a bridge, would that mean you'd have to jump?

Sorry man, but I stopped being six years old the moment I turned seven.  You'd do well not to act like a six year old yourself.

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

Your avatars have no shoes? great for you, you will have for sure a great polycount on your naked avie, but half secondlife is not naked, is wearing shoes, jacket, hairs, jewelery over a furry sculpted avatar. for more than 400 tris over them. As i demonstrated in the other topic i've asked you to follow.

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OK, and your point is?

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

i will talk about network traffic when you will tell me that you are experiencing traffic shaping on your internet connection. This was the topic about.

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So I have to be experiencing the problem before I can suggest any possible ways to alleviate it?

I once broke my arm.  The doctor was able to set it, and to put a cast on it, but he didn't have a broken arm himself.  Gee, how'd that work?

 

Further, you're saying you won't return to talking about your own topic until Time Warner starts shaping traffic the same way your old ISP did? I guess this thread is dead for you, then, because that's pretty unlikely to happen.

Just to be clear, YOU are deliberately keeping the discussion off topic, while I'm trying to return to it.  Yet you call ME the troll.  Project much, do we?

 

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

You are not experiencing traffic shaping? Go on the other topic i've made just for you to talk about heavyness of avatars, and don't bother here.

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For the umpteenth time now, if the traffic shaping is blocking only your high-poly models, while allowing your lower ones through, then quite obviously the high poly ones are a problem in this context.  If you want them to get through, make them from less polygons. It's a very simple concept. If you weren't so ridiculously hellbent on insisting you're right and I'm wrong that you've abandoned all reason, you'd see that.

I'm pretty sure you do see it, but that six-year-old pride of yours just won't let you admit it.

[Chosen Few]

My COLLADA version is 1.4.1, for whatever that's worth. I doubt the version discrepency alone could cause such a big difference, though.

Included data options, maybe?  The only options I've got enabled are polygon meshes, joints & skin, texture coordinates, and normals.  Everything else, such as cameras, animations, lights, invisible nodes, etc., are all switched off.  Even with those things, though, I can't see the data size tripling.

It hardly matters, of course.  I'm just curious.

[MaxTux Wonder]

Quote: "For the umpteenth time now, if the traffic shaping is blocking only your high-poly models, while allowing your lower ones through, then quite obviously the high poly ones are a problem in this context."

 

Yes high poly is the problem, how much poly is blocked by traffic shaping? How much polys i've to use to make it work right? Will work the same way with the all providers all over the world, or will solve just problems of few people?

 

Those are questions that a really interested person in the topic should do. And those were informations that i pretend to get from this topic until you screwed it up.

 

But you are not an interested person.

 

Quote: "If you want them to get through, make them from less polygons. It's a very simple concept. If you weren't so ridiculously hellbent on insisting you're right and I'm wrong that you've abandoned all reason, you'd see that."

 

How much smaller i've to do it to make it works? You think i should try to do 10 different versions of the avie each one with a different poly count? You know that a full avie take a month of hard work 8 hours at day? And if this fix will work only for me and not for other users? Will be my avatar of 9000 faces competitive with other furry prims/sculpties avies with 200k-400k tris (retorical)? Until i don't get more informations from users and from Lindens, i can't do nothing than wasting time and money.

You of course don't have any idea of what it means to work on computer graphic.

Should i follow suggestions from a builder wannabe, that doesn't even knows that 40k+ it's under average polycount for an avatar in SL? (an avatar with shoes and hair, of course)

[Drongle McMahon]

Sizes of Collada files are rather loosely related to vertex/triangle numbers for several reasons in addition to the different sets of data included. Different exporters use different numbers of decimal digits. I think I have seen from 5 to 12. The data tables can be extremely redundant. For example, for a 16x16 quad flat plane, the Blender 2.49 exporter makes a table with 256 normals, all of which are identical. (I did once edit a file like that to have just one normal and changed all the referencing indices to point to it. It uploaded without problems.)

So I am not at all surprised by a three-fold difference in Collada file size from different exporters. (Assuming they were different?)

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

 

Yes high poly is the problem,

how much poly is blocked by traffic shaping? How much polys i've to use to make it work right?

 

Will work the same way with the all providers all over the world, or will solve just problems of few people?

 

Those are questions that a really interested person in the topic should do.

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I don't want to sound whiny, but this is the first time you posted a direct question.

I don't think LL has an answer to your question about different providers and their traffic shaping. There are so many different providers that do it.

List of ISPs with traffic shaping

You can ask a Linden how much data a mesh is compared to the vertice count when sent between peers. I do not think the forums are a good place for that, since the Lindens aren't very active. Maybe you could try support.

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

 

How much smaller i've to do it to make it works? You think i should try to do 10 different versions of the avie each one with a different poly count? You know that a full avie take a month of hard work 8 hours at day? And if this fix will work only for me and not for other users?

Until i don't get more informations from users and from Lindens, i can't do nothing than wasting time and money.

 

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One could try with very basic shapes, like I did with a plane. That takes more time to upload than build and export to dae. There is no need to make 10 versions of an avatar that took a month to build. Just 10 planes would be fine to give a general idea of what the limit is, well at least for the person testing. Now that you've changed ISP you can't do that anymore ofcourse:)

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MaxTux Wonder wrote:

 

You of course don't have any idea of what it means to work on computer graphic.

Should i follow suggestions from a builder wannabe, that doesn't even knows that 40k+ it's under average polycount for an avatar in SL?

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I don't want to stick my head into a bees nest, but Chosen knows perfectly well how things work, years of forum activity back that up. I've seen Chosen rebuild objects that had issues in minutes where it would have taken me hours and I am pretty experienced myself. I've seen the robot in this thread, which looks pretty impressive, even with the polycount being too high. I can't speak for anyone else, but when Chosen claims something it's usually spot on.