Markers for mainland waterways?

[Jenni Darkwatch]

I realize that Lindens probably don't read this, but...

would there be ANY chance that moles or the SL Coast Guard would be allowed to mark mainland waterways with some kind of not-too-intrusive marker? I mean these 16m wide channels that go around the edges of most mainland and through some mainland areas.

It's tiresome to have to guess where the channel continues, for example the stretch through Lamella, Glamaig, Marsco.

One can dream, right? :)

[Chelsea Malibu]

Actually they do read these and quite thoroughly.

[Triple Peccable]

I use this to navigate through mainland waterways, it keeps you out of trouble even if you stray outside the protected land:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Ban-Line-Parcel-Full-HUD-Essential-for-all-Vehicles-Explorers-and-Landlords/1269113

 

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Thanks for the link. The resolution is a bit low at 32m x/y per grid point, since the channels are only 16m wide. Certainly helpful though.

[Triple Peccable]

The HUD allows you to zoom in to see each 16 sq. meter of the sim, which is the smallest possible parcel size.

 

[Baloo Uriza]

I like this.  I do like how the SLCG has been good about using real-world bouy types in SL for the most part (with allowances for unique-to-the-metaverse situations, like rez areas at sea).

[Baloo Uriza]

You don't need a HUD for this, ctrl-shift-P (I think) will turn on border highlights in most viewers.  Any time you have a choice of increasing server load with a HUD or using a function of your viewer, using the viewer feature should be the no-brainer option.

[Triple Peccable]

First, seeing the ban lines doesn't help if you are in a moving vehicle. You need to see where the ban lines are before it is too late, otherwise you are dislodged from your vehicle, and many times the vehicle gets returned to your inventory.

Second, you can't see the ban lines if you are at the border of the sim and the ban lines are in the adjacent sim. If you run into those ban lines on a vehicle, it is guaranteed to get returned to your inventory.

Third, the HUD shows where parcels are too full to allow the vehicle to enter. Again, if you hit that condition at a sim crossing, your vehicle gets returned.

Fourth, the HUD is very good about using as little sim resources as possible: Only 5 scripts and 0.3ms script time.

 

 

[Hugsy Penguin]

Turning on property lines doesn't help when navigating down a wide waterway where only a narrow stripe is Linden land.  See the attached picture.  Even though property lines are turned on, there's no way to tell where the Linden waterway is without the markers.

If there's a problem area, submit a ticket to the Linden Department of Public Works.  State your case.  Explain that it's impossible to stay on Linden land over water.  Do not ask for neighboring ban lines or security orbs to removed (unless the orb is intruding on the Linden land).

1. Help --> Ticket History
2. Scroll down to where is says Premium Support and click Contact Support
3. Under Still can't find an answer? click Submit a Support Case form
4. Set What type of problem are you having? to Land & Region
5. Set Land & Region to Linden Lab owner Parcel Issues
6. Set Where is the Linden-owned Parcel that is having the issue? to the region name
7. Set SLURL or Parcel Coordinates to the SLURL
8. Set Please describe the issue to a message that the waterway needs marked.

 

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Good example At least in this screenie there's marker buoys. Does LL indeed put down buoys if requested by residents?

[Baloo Uriza]

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Triple Peccable wrote:

First, seeing the ban lines doesn't help if you are in a moving vehicle. You need to see where the ban lines are before it is too late, otherwise you are dislodged from your vehicle, and many times the vehicle gets returned to your inventory.

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That's why I suggested highlighting property boundaries.  These aren't the same as banlines.

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Triple Peccable wrote:

Second, you can't see the ban lines if you are at the border of the sim and the ban lines are in the adjacent sim. If you run into those ban lines on a vehicle, it is guaranteed to get returned to your inventory.

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But you can see property lines across sim boundaries quite easily if you enable them in your viewier.

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Triple Peccable wrote:

Third, the HUD shows where parcels are too full to allow the vehicle to enter. Again, if you hit that condition at a sim crossing, your vehicle gets returned.

Fourth, the HUD is very good about using as little sim resources as possible: Only 5 scripts and 0.3ms script time.

 

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Third is a good feature, but the minimap can also provide similar functionality viewer-side.  0.3ms script time is probably on an ideal situation; CPU time seems to go all kinds of crazy when there's heavy load.

[Hugsy Penguin]

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

Good example

At least in this screenie there's marker buoys. Does LL indeed put down buoys if requested by residents?

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There's no guarantee that they will. The markers in the above picture were placed by request. I recommend filing a ticket as I noted above. Just be polite, focus on wanting to traverse the waterway without infringing on neighboring land and how that's impossible to do without markers of some sort, and don't ask for ban lines/security orbs to be removed (or say anything else that gives the impression you're just trying to mess with the neighbors). The worst that can happen is that they say no.

[Triple Peccable]

None of the viewer side features you referred to duplicates the functions of the HUD.

But I am not going to bog the thread down any further by trying to enlighten you.

[Koltari]

I have property lines on at all times but I have to say I really can't make out where the lines are when I'm above water. I usually have to dive down to see the lines on the ground under the water. I might be doing something wrong or I've missed some feature but just turning on property lines doesn't work for me :matte-motes-bashful:

[Hugsy Penguin]

Property lines are drawn at ground level.  If the ground is above water, then you can see them.  If the ground is below water, then they're obscured by the water and you can't see them.  You haven't missed any features.  Property lines are of little to no use when you're sailing.

[Prokofy Neva]

There's no need to make this Mainland-wide when you're concerned with just a few sims. No matter what you would put up, it could be intrusive in some areas.

So why not first try to get those landowners who are adjacent to the Linden waterways to put up buoys?

And then if that doesn't work, ask Moles to put them just on those few sims.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

True, it'd have to be sensible. There's no need to put up markers everywhere, but in some areas it's really nearly impossible to navigate without running into someones sim. Visual aids would greatly help there.

As far as I know, the SLCG does ask land owners if they'd mind putting up buoys. They did ask me anyway. I did put up buoys steering people around a land owner that has fairly rudely blocked the 16m channel along the sim edge with prims overhanging her parcel.

[Triple Peccable]

One of the reasons I created the HUD is so that you can safely explore mainland "off the beaten path". Believe it or not, despite popular opinion, there are some great places to explore and great builds to see on mainland. I got tired of seeing over and over all the same scenery and builds that line the protected waterways and roads.

In spending many many hours exploring, I don't recall once someone IM'ing me saying "This is private property, please leave". Sure, there are the occasional security orbs that will tell you that, but fortunately most are set to give you time to leave before booting you.

So go on, explore off the beaten path. Most of those land owners want to show off their builds anyway.

[Orca Flotta]

okay, some points to clear up:

Second Life Coast Guard, SLCG are no moles, and aren't affiliated with the LDPW or LL at all. They are all paying customers like you and me who care about safety on public and private waters. A "RP" group if you so want, but a very well organized, disciplined, good, useful group.

Also caring about free traffic on public waterways is the Open Seas Project, OSP.  Get more info and material from the honoured Indigo Mertel. Please join and support!

Triple Peccable's fancy HUD is one of the most useful tools for all vehiclists, particularly sailors. As soon as you leave the safe haven of Blake Sea and connected estates (SLNE, SC, USS) it becomes a neccesity. Saved my life already a dozen times.

Shameless plug: you can purchase the HUD in the clubhouse of Triumphal Yacht Club (Triumphal sim), beyond other places.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

I vaguely recall the OSP.

Btw, I've found a relatively simple solution for myself. Triples' HUD gave me an idea, and a quick test shows that it's fairly well possible to create nautical maps on the fly and load them in very high detail onto a Media-on-a-Prim HUD. Granted, requires a new viewer, but that's none of my concern.

[Hugsy Penguin]

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

True, it'd have to be sensible. There's no need to put up markers everywhere, ...

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I kinda disagree here.  Although starting with problem areas would be great, I think they should just put them everywhere.  That way everybody is aware of where the public Linden land is and the private resident owned land.

 

I note that in terms of running into blocking prims, there's a big difference with driving down the road and sailing through a Linden waterway.  It's rare (but not unheard of) to get blocked on the road.  It's not uncommon at all on the water.  I believe part of the difference is that the roads do a good job of marking where the Linden-owned land is.

 

Small little buoys or some other kind of marker should be placed in a spaced out manner so as not to interfere with neighboring builds but are enough to guide the sailor.  This would help sailors avoid ban lines and orbs while reminding resident land owners of the existence and location of the Linden-owned waterway.