Is she being taken advantage of

[GenysisGwynn Nicoletti]

Hey all GG here, although I've been for a little while, I've never heard of such a thing so I'm gonna run it buy you all and you can tell me what I can do to help my friend...

I have a friend who recently joined SL (8 months old) , She doesn't want me to use her name so I will refer to her initials "CR" , she rented some land, but her landlord told her he would give her a better deal if she purchased the land and then she would only have to pay for the prims she used and the land in effect would be hers,  CR, took the landlord up on his deal and according to her all was smooth.  However, recently CR ran into some issues and fell behind on the prim payments, but the LL worked with her but yesterday CR told me that  the LL told her if she didn't have the lindens to pay that day she would have to pick up her prims and lose the land? 

Again I never heard of purchasing land from a LL rent yes but I thought you could only "purchase" and for all intent and purposes "Own" land from Linden Labs, so I'm stuck on what to tell her to do, is he correct about reclaiming the land, CR "owns" if she only was paying for prims? Was this deal on the level? I really hope this landlord didn't take advantage of her,

Would appreciate any advice you guys can give to help her out...

GG

 

Thanks Ro, but i'm still uncertain how your response relates to my question at hand. You explained how being a landlord works, but that's not my question, if a  person owns something then shouldn't they be able to retain it until they sell it?  Since CR was not paying for land, (my understanding from CR is she paid a hefty price for this land) and was behind on prim payments I would think the LL would've given the option to sell the land to make up for the arrears, but again I don't understand how this works, how can you purchase land from someone who is effectively "renting' themselves?  This sounds shady to me, but again I admit I'm not well versed in this,  so that's why I posed the question here...Your response would work well If I needed a lesson in becoming a landlord, I'm asking I guess from the tenant side, but again I thank you immensely for your response...

I guess what i'm trying to ascertain is this, if I own land and allow a person to build a house on my land if they fall behind in their mortgage payments, the bank can't foreclose on my land, only their house- so how does CR's landlord get the prims and the land?, not sure how much she's behind, but after paying something I would think you own it. 

This example might make it a little more clear, after paying off your house, if you fall behind on maintenance fees, they can't take your house for fees? it just seems CR lost out big on this one... which IMO, Linden Labs should explain these details a little better or not allow anyone to rent/buy until they are here at least a year with a good understanding of how things work with land ownership, which is really not ownership, because, as I understand, we all are just renting from Linden Labs, but the system seems ripe for abuse, especially for those just venturing into SL.

I hope one of these examples provided a good analogy, its the only one I could think of that fits this situation...not the best, just the only one I came up with at the time...thanks

 

ETA: Okay, I got it now...so CR is SOOL, I will show her the repsonses and I thank you all...huggies

[Rolig Loon]

The landlord owns the region.  He can deal with others in the region in either of two ways: (1) he can divide it into parcels that are deeded to a rental group (or perhaps just kept in his own name) and then place rental boxes on each parcel or (2) he can deed individual parcels to individuals or groups.  In either case, he is still responsible for paying the monthly land fees to LL, so he has to collect L$ from each person on those parcels.  Call it "rent", or call it a "usage fee" or whatever.... the person on each parcel has to pay the landlord, not LL. 

The difference between the two arrangements is subtle.  If the parcels are all owned by a rental group, then they share a pool of prims.  If one parcel is vacant or underutilized, perhaps left as park land, the landlord can use bonuses to transfer some of its prim allowance to occupied parcels.  That way he can offer a small parcel with bonus prims for a higher rental fee.  The down side is that the tenants on all parcels belong to the same group and can potentially use more than their prim allotment by using a neighbor''s.  They can also rez on each other's land.  The landlord therefore has to do more police work and bookkeeping with that arrangement.  If parcels are deeded to separate groups, on the other hand, the landlord has less work to do and the tenants are less interdependent, but they also can't benefit from sharing prim alowances with other parcels.

The landlord on my own sim uses both methods.  Long-term residents like me mostly have deeded parcels; short-term renters are in a communal rental group.  The landlord can redistribute prim allowances among the renters in that group, and can "borrow" prim allowance from an unrented hilly parcel.  Nobody builds on my parcel or uses my prims but me. 

 The bottom line, though, is that in either arrangement, the landlord owns the sim, is responsible for paying LL, and has full control over setting and enforcing its convenant.  He has the right to eject anyone who is not paying on time or who is breaking the covenant.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Short answer I think is you are the owner only if you are listed as the owner in the about land menu, otherwise you are renting land from a resident.

If the agreement was she pays money in exchange for prim allowance and she is not able to pay, then the land owner is reclaiming his land for failure to pay.

So, her home is being foreclosed in a sense because she cannot afford the payments. It is not a happy situation, but it sounds legit. 

[Ariel Vuissent]

You only truly, completely own land if you're paying for it directly from Linden Labs. I "own" a small parcel of land, but I purchased that land from another user, who in turns pays tier for it to Linden Labs. So as far as LL is concerned, my "landlord" owns the land.

Purchasing land gives you the ability to set certain rules on the land you own. I control who can rez on "my" land, who can fly, etc., but it's not really mine. It still belongs to my landlord, who buys it from LL.

It sounds like your friend got a very good deal. She got to put her prims on the land and set rules for the land, and only had to pay for what she was using. "CR" 's landlord is within his rights to reclaim his land from CR, even though she "owns" it. He's still paying for it from LL. Because she hasn't paid on time, he may be falling behind on his own payments to LL, thus meaning he needs to get the land back and rent it to someone who can pay in order to pay his own tier for the land.

Think of it this way: In RL, you rent your apartment from your landlord. You put down the deposit, then pay regular "installments" to stay there. Your landlord, in turn, has fees he need to pay - taxes, repair bills, etc. If you're late on your payment, your landlord can evict you even though you paid a deposit on the apartment and doesn't have to give you back the deposit. In SL, "buying" the land is like your deposit. Your landlord still owes money, and uses your rent to help pay to keep the land. If your landlord loses the land by not paying his tier, you lose your land whether your paid him or not. If you're late on your rent, your landlord can evict you from the land.

ETA: Your friend's situation is much more like renting an apartment than owning a house. Her landlord owns the land and house - your friend is renting a room in that house.

[Rolig Loon]

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GenysisGwynn Nicoletti wrote:

[...] if a  person owns something then shouldn't they be able to retain it until they sell it?  Since CR was not paying for land, (my understanding from CR is she paid a hefty price for this land) and was behind on prim payments I would think the LL would've given the option to sell the land to make up for the arrears, but again I don't understand how this works, how can you purchase land from someone who is effectively "renting' themselves?  This sounds shady to me, but again I admit I'm not well versed in this,  so that's why I posed the question here...Your response would work well If I needed a lesson in becoming a landlord, I'm asking I guess from the tenant side, but again I thank you immensely for your response...

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To be a knowledgable tenant, you have to know something about how the landlord's business works.  That's why I bothered to explain.

The point is that CR does not "own" the land at all.  As I explained, the only owner is the landlord, and he is only actually renting it from LL.   CR's landlord may have offered her a one-time "set-up" fee and then be charging her a monthly prim fee after that, but she is still on his region, paying a fee for continued use of the land.  If she doesn't keep up her end of the bargain by paying that fee, the landlord can look for another tenant who will.  He still has his own rent to pay to LL.  (In fact, the deal he offered to CR is similar to the deal that LL made with him.  He paid a one-time fee to "buy" the sim and is obliged to pay LL a monthly land use fee to stay on it.)

Yes, the arrangement is ripe for abuse, and a mercifully small number of landlords do abuse it.  You make your own decisions about whom to trust and what risks you are willing to take.  Personally, I think CR got a pretty good deal and it sounds as if the landlord did cut her some slack for a while.