Caitlin Tobias Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: Everything on SL should be free. Everything that's good about SL is already free and everything that's wrong with it is due to it being run by Capitalists who care about nothing but corporate profit. I call upon everyone who Creates to renounce greed and share freely with others, in the spirit of Jesus Christ, Karl Marx and John Lennon. Imagine! Jeanne Seriously. This smells to coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 the only failure I see is to for you to imagine ALL the possibilities, good, bad, and indifferent. at the end of the day every form of purified idealism falls prey to the cynics and pragmatists. the former because they tell themselves that someone is going to work over the system to their advantage anyway (self fulfilling prophecy), and the later because they know that it promotes their own well being and survival (survival instinct at work). and the only time those two categories don't vastly outnumber the idealists is when it's hang together (figurately) or hang separately (literally)... and by then most of the idealists are dead or converted. that's not just in political systems, that's in everything, and has been proven over and over repeatedly throughout history from ancient times to modern. Idealism can be enforced to work on a small scale, but it doesn't have structure enough to deal with large scale. a saner approach is conditional idealism, or as I think of it, enlightened self interest... after you've secured your immediate wants and needs, take what resources you have to spare that won't be missed and contribute them to a common purpose. that's not an idle suggestion, it's how I live... spending time helping others learn the skills to do or get what the want from their own efforts, instead of relying on others to do it for them. this eases the burden on others, makes the individual more able to contribute, and pushes the whole system farther forward than backwards... because it tends to create more resources than it uses, especially if that resource is knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Caitlin Tobias wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: Everything on SL should be free. Everything that's good about SL is already free and everything that's wrong with it is due to it being run by Capitalists who care about nothing but corporate profit. I call upon everyone who Creates to renounce greed and share freely with others, in the spirit of Jesus Christ, Karl Marx and John Lennon. Imagine! Jeanne Seriously. This smells to coffee. I lol'ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterCanessa Oh Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: Don't people understand that innovations that allow population to exceed carrying capacity by that much more, only makes the crash harder? Isn't it clear that Borlaug's "revolution" only ensures that that many more hundreds of millions starve? I'm sorry, this argument has turned away from politics completely - what has food-production got to do with anything the bible, Marx or Lennon said about free or collective anything? Are you now, perhaps, saying their view on things was "Let the buggers starve now or they'll only have more children later?" (Of course,. this is often what soviet Russia in fact did but I don't think it's anything Marx recommended) However, if you do wish to talk about food-production then by your argument land-clearance, fertilizer-spreading, irrigation and any other simple agricultural improvement, back to ancient history, have been anti-god, anti-workers and, what's worse, anti rock'n'roll! The same could be said for medicine in that it increases life. It is interesting though that you are citing Jesus and Marx together. The shared feature of religious and economic dogmatists - those that are sure their way is the only way - is that they reject evolution. "The system" they hate can change, "The people" are not homogenous, "The good life" is sought again and again by generation after generation. Where you have difference, change and iteration you get evolution. That means that even if the old arguments were ever valid they may well not be in future. As Celestial, and others, said - Malthus was wrong in leaving-out the possibility that technology would increase food-supply and people would choose to have fewer children. Communism was wrong in believing capitalism could only be overcome by revolution, when in fact it mutated into consumerism very quickly because of enlightened self-interest. Lennon, of course, was just a hypocrite, like every other champagne socialist. Can't remember many of his records being given away free, however rich he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syedmuddassar Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 LOL Great topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Void Singer wrote: the only failure I see is to for you to imagine ALL the possibilities, good, bad, and indifferent. at the end of the day every form of purified idealism falls prey to the cynics and pragmatists. the former because they tell themselves that someone is going to work over the system to their advantage anyway (self fulfilling prophecy), and the later because they know that it promotes their own well being and survival (survival instinct at work). and the only time those two categories don't vastly outnumber the idealists is when it's hang together (figurately) or hang separately (literally)... and by then most of the idealists are dead or converted. that's not just in political systems, that's in everything, and has been proven over and over repeatedly throughout history from ancient times to modern. Idealism can be enforced to work on a small scale, but it doesn't have structure enough to deal with large scale. a saner approach is conditional idealism, or as I think of it, enlightened self interest... after you've secured your immediate wants and needs, take what resources you have to spare that won't be missed and contribute them to a common purpose. that's not an idle suggestion, it's how I live... spending time helping others learn the skills to do or get what the want from their own efforts, instead of relying on others to do it for them. this eases the burden on others, makes the individual more able to contribute, and pushes the whole system farther forward than backwards... because it tends to create more resources than it uses, especially if that resource is knowledge. That was so well said. The last paragraph reminded me of a sign I saw once in someone's office which said just the opposite: "Give a man a fish, he knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish and you've just destroyed your marketbase." I read it and laughed and said something like, "nice sign". He went into a ten minute spiel, breaking down the original,"Teach a man to fish", idiom and explained to me why that attitude was " bad for the country". Scary, scary guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Celestiall Nightfire wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: Marx's principles didn't result in the collapse of the Soviet Union, Void. That's what the Capitalst sociopaths that control the lamestream media have programmed you to believe. Not so. It was the economics of the Soviet Union that brought on the collapse. Quite simply, they could not sustain their system, could not feed their people, could not continue to compete in the world market. That is a direct result of the Marxist economics that played out for 70 years, crippling an empire that should have been able to forge ahead. But, in reality was mired in stifling Marxist economics. Russia has been locked out of the World Trade Organization for 17 years. It is very likely that once Russia secures it's borders with Georgia, Russia will enter the WTO soon. Why Russia has been locked out for 17 years... I haven't looked that up yet...so I don't know exactly why. To the OP: There are already practically free sex beds on Marketplace along with a lot of other free or nearly free items; some may cost a few pennies or a dime for example. However, I'm on a SL budget, and I upgrade with what I really want when I get the extra money to spend or get gift money to spend. I'm mostly steampunk, fairy, and a little gothic Victorian, but I love some of these antiques, and please somebody make more antique beds...I've been searching for antique beds for five months and have only found one -- and I pay for good stuff too!!! And, as far as SLex, my rl bf is not going to go on SL anytime soon, and with perv cams, I doubt he'd want to be my slover on SL. It's just not something we'd spend money on right now. I don't blame some of the people for charging for SLex. I use my money here and I am not anybody's free entertainment such as giving out free SLex; this is my dime and SL ain't exactly inexpensive. So, I do not feel I am anyone's free entertainment. Now if they pay me about 500,000 lindens a month, I might agree to being someone's sex object. Otherwise, no freebies, sorry. I think the people who charge are the smart ones as most SLex people are getting a load of bull half the time and only being used whilst their feelings are being manipulated. Oh, I love you... yeah sure... these people don't even know me or my heart. Russia/WTO link: http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/ISN-Insights/Detail?lng=en&id=129019&contextid734=129019&contextid735=129017&tabid=129017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micahele Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Jeanne, someone much more insitefull than I once said of Hitler...,power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Mayalily wrote: Celestiall Nightfire wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: Marx's principles didn't result in the collapse of the Soviet Union, Void. That's what the Capitalst sociopaths that control the lamestream media have programmed you to believe. Not so. It was the economics of the Soviet Union that brought on the collapse. Quite simply, they could not sustain their system, could not feed their people, could not continue to compete in the world market. That is a direct result of the Marxist economics that played out for 70 years, crippling an empire that should have been able to forge ahead. But, in reality was mired in stifling Marxist economics. Russia has been locked out of the World Trade Organization for 17 years. It is very likely that once Russia secures it's borders with Georgia, Russia will enter the WTO soon. Why Russia has been locked out for 17 years... I haven't looked that up yet...so I don't know exactly why. To the OP: There are already practically free sex beds on Marketplace along with a lot of other free or nearly free items; some may cost a few pennies or a dime for example. However, I'm on a SL budget, and I upgrade with what I really want when I get the extra money to spend or get gift money to spend. I'm mostly steampunk, fairy, and a little gothic Victorian, but I love some of these antiques, and please somebody make more antique beds...I've been searching for antique beds for five months and have only found one -- and I pay for good stuff too!!! And, as far as SLex, my rl bf is not going to go on SL anytime soon, and with perv cams, I doubt he'd want to be my slover on SL. It's just not something we'd spend money on right now. I don't blame some of the escorts for charging. I use my money here and I am not anybody's free entertainment such as giving out free SLex; this is my dime and SL ain't exactly inexpensive. So, I do not feel I am anyone's free entertainment. Now if they pay me about 500,000 lindens a month, I might agree to being someone's sex object. Otherwise, no freebies, sorry. I think the escorts who charge are the smart ones as most SLex people are getting a load of bull half the time and only being used whilst their feelings are being manipulated. Oh, I love you... yeah sure... these people don't even know me or my heart. Russia/WTO link: http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/ISN-Insights/Detail?lng=en&id=129019&contextid734=129019&contextid735=129017&tabid=129017 Reminded me of the Churchill quote: Churchill: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?” Socialite: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…” Churchill: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?” Socialite: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!” Churchill: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Stella Carver wrote: Mayalily wrote: Celestiall Nightfire wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: Marx's principles didn't result in the collapse of the Soviet Union, Void. That's what the Capitalst sociopaths that control the lamestream media have programmed you to believe. Not so. It was the economics of the Soviet Union that brought on the collapse. Quite simply, they could not sustain their system, could not feed their people, could not continue to compete in the world market. That is a direct result of the Marxist economics that played out for 70 years, crippling an empire that should have been able to forge ahead. But, in reality was mired in stifling Marxist economics. Russia has been locked out of the World Trade Organization for 17 years. It is very likely that once Russia secures it's borders with Georgia, Russia will enter the WTO soon. Why Russia has been locked out for 17 years... I haven't looked that up yet...so I don't know exactly why. To the OP: There are already practically free sex beds on Marketplace along with a lot of other free or nearly free items; some may cost a few pennies or a dime for example. However, I'm on a SL budget, and I upgrade with what I really want when I get the extra money to spend or get gift money to spend. I'm mostly steampunk, fairy, and a little gothic Victorian, but I love some of these antiques, and please somebody make more antique beds...I've been searching for antique beds for five months and have only found one -- and I pay for good stuff too!!! And, as far as SLex, my rl bf is not going to go on SL anytime soon, and with perv cams, I doubt he'd want to be my slover on SL. It's just not something we'd spend money on right now. I don't blame some of the escorts for charging. I use my money here and I am not anybody's free entertainment such as giving out free SLex; this is my dime and SL ain't exactly inexpensive. So, I do not feel I am anyone's free entertainment. Now if they pay me about 500,000 lindens a month, I might agree to being someone's sex object. Otherwise, no freebies, sorry. I think the escorts who charge are the smart ones as most SLex people are getting a load of bull half the time and only being used whilst their feelings are being manipulated. Oh, I love you... yeah sure... these people don't even know me or my heart. Russia/WTO link: http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/ISN-Insights/Detail?lng=en&id=129019&contextid734=129019&contextid735=129017&tabid=129017 Reminded me of the Churchill quote: Churchill: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?” Socialite: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…” Churchill: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?” Socialite: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!” Churchill: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.” Churchill was a hypocrite with that statement, obviously he could not see the log in his own eye, er, I mean pants. ETA: About Russia gaining bid into the WTO, it may happen by end of this year IF Russia can secure it's borders with Georgia. I wonder how that will affect China and it's exports? I've been wondering this for months. p.s. editted out mote and put it log; seems more befitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Stella Carver wrote: Void Singer wrote: the only failure I see is to for you to imagine ALL the possibilities, good, bad, and indifferent. at the end of the day every form of purified idealism falls prey to the cynics and pragmatists. the former because they tell themselves that someone is going to work over the system to their advantage anyway (self fulfilling prophecy), and the later because they know that it promotes their own well being and survival (survival instinct at work). and the only time those two categories don't vastly outnumber the idealists is when it's hang together (figurately) or hang separately (literally)... and by then most of the idealists are dead or converted. that's not just in political systems, that's in everything, and has been proven over and over repeatedly throughout history from ancient times to modern. Idealism can be enforced to work on a small scale, but it doesn't have structure enough to deal with large scale. a saner approach is conditional idealism, or as I think of it, enlightened self interest... after you've secured your immediate wants and needs, take what resources you have to spare that won't be missed and contribute them to a common purpose. that's not an idle suggestion, it's how I live... spending time helping others learn the skills to do or get what the want from their own efforts, instead of relying on others to do it for them. this eases the burden on others, makes the individual more able to contribute, and pushes the whole system farther forward than backwards... because it tends to create more resources than it uses, especially if that resource is knowledge. That was so well said. The last paragraph reminded me of a sign I saw once in someone's office which said just the opposite: "Give a man a fish, he knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish and you've just destroyed your marketbase." I read it and laughed and said something like, "nice sign". He went into a ten minute spiel, breaking down the original,"Teach a man to fish", idiom and explained to me why that attitude was " bad for the country". Scary, scary guy. Speaking of fishing... we have fish farms here (where I live) where you can catch fresh fish. They do very well profit-wise. This is something I've been thinking about -- investing in a fish farm. Fish farming could stave off some starvation in (some) 3rd world countries if they'd just get going and do it! The exact quote is "give a man a fish, you've fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you've fed him for a lifetime." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Mayalily wrote: The exact quote is "give a man a fish, you've fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you've fed him for a lifetime." I prefer Terry Pratchett's version: "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Scylla Rhiadra wrote: I don't know . . . and really don't much care . . . what sort of impact the free SexGen beds will have on the sex toy industry in SL. Not much, I'd bet. On the other hand, without Stroker spewing repulsive crap about having sex with his "SL daughters" to documentary filmmakers, perhaps Second Life might be able to recover from its reputation as a haven for repellant porn addicts. Perhaps, just maybe, someone will want to talk instead about the art, the culture, and the creativity that SL features? Nah, you're right. Ain't gonna happen. I think the TV documentaries that featured Stroker and the adult-rated side of SL have lured more people here than art and culture could ever hope to accomplish. Anyway, the "repulsive crap" is only repulsive if you mistakenly assume that his "SL daughters" were, or represented, legal minors . There is nothing legally wrong with incest RP between consenting adults with adult-shaped avatars. I had a friend RP my twin sister for a while, because there is nothing more attractive to me than my own avatar. Incest is a very common erotic fantasy in SL. Besides, even in RL, the social taboo against consensual adult incest no longer makes any rational sense in the age of birth control, especially not if both participants have the same gender. RL anti-incest laws that don't seek to protect minors are just another example of a moralizing government that tries to control what consenting adults get to do in their bedrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterCanessa Oh Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Micahele wrote: Jeanne, someone much more insitefull than I once said of Hitler...,power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutey. Not quite Hitler, but your point is valid. [ETA: Duh, I forgot to put in the link! http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterCanessa Oh Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Mayalily wrote: I don't blame some of the escorts for charging Well no, I don't blame them either, it's their business. I'd worry about the ones that aren't charging. At the same time I'd like to think that some people in SL aren't whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ishtara Rothschild wrote: I think the TV documentaries that featured Stroker and the adult-rated side of SL have lured more people here than art and culture could ever hope to accomplish. Anyway, the "repulsive crap" is only repulsive if you mistakenly assume that his "SL daughters" were, or represented, legal minors . There is nothing legally wrong with incest RP between consenting adults with adult-shaped avatars. I had a friend RP my twin sister for a while, because there is nothing more attractive to me than my own avatar. Incest is a very common erotic fantasy in SL. Besides, even in RL, the social taboo against consensual adult incest no longer makes any rational sense in the age of birth control, especially not if both participants have the same gender. RL anti-incest laws that don't seek to protect minors are just another example of a moralizing government that tries to control what consenting adults get to do in their bedrooms. I didn't say that such RP was "wrong" -- I wasn't making a moral judgement about it. I suggested it was "repulsive," a personal and partially aesthetic judgement that I stand by, and that would, I suspect, be shared with the vast majority of people watching said documentaries. A simulation in SL of sexual torture, rape, and mutilation would also not necessarily be "wrong" in the sense that it does "harm," but it would still be repulsive -- at least to me and most people I know. And the fact that Stroker's self-aggrandizing characterizations of Second Life as a sort of giant orgy room have undoubtedly attracted a great many people to Second Life is precisely my complaint. It is to such publicity that we owe the fact that a great many people who MIGHT be interested in the art, culture, and creativity here won't touch it with a barge pole. Instead, thanks in some measure to Stroker, we are the destination of choice for those who wander around asking all and sundry if they want to have "the secks." I have no reason to dislike Stroker personally. He could be a saint for all I know in RL (although I wonder if his wife would think so?). But I'm delighted to see him gone. Now, if he could only take his arch nemesis, Jumpy, with him. ETA: This is fairly simply, Ishy, and needn't involve huge debates about the morality of certain types of role play, the presence of sex in SL, or anything like that. This is about personal preferences, and what we most value about Second Life. You see Second Life primarily in terms of sex. I value it for other reasons. I have nothing in particular against a virtual world that is primarily about sex -- I just don't want to see Second Life go that way, at the expense of the things that I, personally, value here. If Second Life *does* became a larger more sophisticated version of RLC, I won't be morally outraged. But I will cease to be interested, and will leave. Really, it's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ishtara Rothschild wrote: Mayalily wrote: The exact quote is "give a man a fish, you've fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you've fed him for a lifetime." I prefer Terry Pratchett's version: "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." I prefer Pratchett's version of everthing. I had back surgery last year and had to be on full bedrest for eight weeks. Pratchett & a laptop that would run SL made it bearable. Well, also the Percocet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 PeterCanessa Oh wrote: Mayalily wrote: I don't blame some of the escorts for charging Well no, I don't blame them either, it's their business. I'd worry about the ones that aren't charging. At the same time I'd like to think that some people in SL aren't whores. Technically, I don't see how escorts would manage not to charge since without the monetary element, they'd no longer be escorts, and just be people having sex. There's got to be a way to spin that into an idiom. "Buy a man an escort and he'll.... Probably best to not finish that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Stella Carver wrote: ...."Buy a man an escort and he'll.... ...and he will drive away in a FORD. FIFY (finished it for you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 lol. That's almost as bad as the "joke" my husband used to make when my stepson and his friends went out in his Honda. "There they go, just like the disciples, all in one ACCORD." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Stella Carver wrote: lol. That's almost as bad as the "joke" my husband used to make when my stepson and his friends went out in his Honda. "There they go, just like the disciples, all in one ACCORD." If i had known you prior to your marriage I would have suggested that you not marry a guy with a Honda. Are you in the market for an escort? :matte-motes-bored: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Carver Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: Stella Carver wrote: lol. That's almost as bad as the "joke" my husband used to make when my stepson and his friends went out in his Honda. "There they go, just like the disciples, all in one ACCORD." If i had known you prior to your marriage I would have suggested that you not marry a guy with a Honda. Are you in the market for an escort? :matte-motes-bored: ha! The Honda was the stepson's and thanks for the offer, but it's all good under the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Pamela Galli wrote: Let me ask more directly, Jeanne: Are you employed in any way? and if so are you compensated in any way? <crickets> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Mayalily wrote: I'm mostly steampunk, fairy, and a little gothic Victorian, but I love some of these antiques, and please somebody make more antique beds...I've been searching for antique beds for five months and have only found one -- and I pay for good stuff too!!! Following the derail: If you love your bed but it's not the right colors, you can easily tint or redo the textures, if it is mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I editted my post for clarity. I meant to write people who charge for SLex are the smart ones, not escorts. Now I get to wear the redunduncey cap. (Dillon, I owe you a note and an invite to my SLouse because I know you meant well, and you didn't fully understand that I was sick and hadn't even had time to contact Ceka and Willow yet, let alone my landlady.) Anyhow, I simply could not believe that someone on the internet "loves me"... they don't even know me or my heart. This is texting/sexting platform, it's a fantasy world and none of us look exactly as perfect as our avatars even if someone were to say it's modeled after them. Now some of us like each other and it hurts when I know some of my internet friends are sick, etc, but love within just texting/sexting...I say the escorts are the smart ones. With the lins, they get lots of nice SLuff, and won't get their heart too involved on the internet, and I do not believe they should be called "whores" or anything of the kind, because I think they are smart to not give away their heart so freely on a texting/sexting/SLtexing platform. I'm with Scylla on her POV that SL isn't just a sexting platform; it's a lot of fun, and when it's light-hearted, it's a terrific community here. We are all working together to get through this prolonged "beta" phase, always experiencing testing 1, 2, 3, or some other technical glitch, yet many of us still have a great time and laugh. SL is so much more than partnerning and SLex. The art here is very well done. The music great. I'm had a terrific time for the most part even with all technical probs... who cares if we dance with our feet missing? I don't. I still have had a great time on SL. Heck, just say no to free sex, and start charging each other. Hahaha, kidding, of course, but you all would get some nice SLuff, instead of a broken heart over SLtexting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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