VonGklugelstein Alter Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I once had about 4-5 free items on my listings. They made up 25% of all transactions while I had over 1100 regular listings.. extrapolate those numbers across the entire market place lol.. Ouch! Also note to Mickey.. My sales have not gone back to normal. Over the last week all my really cool items moved away from the top of my store, and now I have the items that are supposed to be my junky ones and sales items (low priced) on top. A 1L item I have that hardly sold at all is now # 1.. I did change the price after seeing that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 mine might have jumped back because they are featured listings and as soon as the marketplace was fixed they started selling again. Suppose that if you did not get the immediate action back on a few items, that they fell several pages. I think that I had some of those which are not featured listings fall pretty far. Not really sure explanation on that, except that they lost their momentum the day the market went down and have to start back up again. I'm covered up in 25L or less items halfway today on first page... Suppose that if you don't want that, you just remove them or raise price, so you can get your other good sellers back up. The cure for that without having to remove them...would be for them to fix whatever glitch there was in the system that allowed us to control our product offerings on the first pages. That feature lasted about 48 hours, and I tweaked and had great sales days. We have not heard a word on that function, and whether or not it will be back...and that is very valuable function. Crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Rowan hit a bit more on the issue I think, its the combination of full perm + freebies/cheapies = people endlessly trying very hard to resell tired old freebies/cheapies. As long as there is potentially pennies to earn they will each play merchant. Endless loops of reselling bury all else given enough time. Adding to this, in Second Life there is no distinction at all between derivative & original goods (this is the one & only thing IMVU gets correct)... there's the trouble with marketplace! Marketplace Structure: Structurally, the marketplace has a big problem too. It is a 2D website -- so it is a 2D vertical stack of goods. It is one node of distribution where everything must fight furiously to be on top & get seen at all. There is only one top position on marketplace. Such a one node structure will only benefit a very few people & by nature this wastes resources of creative efforts. Contrast that to inworld which naturally is a fully developed network containing many distribution nodes. This more advanced structure allows for many parallel successes -- success which marketplace needlessly denies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think, its the combination of full perm + freebies/cheapies = people endlessly trying very hard to resell tired old freebies/cheapies. As long as there is potentially pennies to earn they will each play merchant Endless loops of reselling bury all else given enough time QFT When I say freebies I also mean cheap low quality junk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 I wonder how long people would play World of Warcraft if they got a mount and epic armor right after logging in Ishatara, that's a very interesting and pertinent observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 what keywords are you typing in Ralph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 what kind of searches are you doing to find those? keywords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Mickey, almost every keyword in every area is infected. The marketplace is dominated by free demos, junky freebies, 1L$, 10L$ trash, from page 1 onwards in every area. What other e-commerce site or RL retail shop would allow their most important shelf space/pages to be taken up with , what is basically, cheap junk ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I gave several random examples. They did not look "infected" and the stuff looked cool on top of that. when I type in my own keywords...it does not look "infected." which categories and phrases are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Qwalyphi, that's because they just leave in disgust wondering why people bother with SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I typed in Pet Cat. not a bad mix on first two pages. I told you what to do to get to first page...and you did not do it. Someone else did, and is on first page. Whose fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The freebie thing is more of a symptom than an actual issue, I think. I get the value of freebies, their stance, that freebies aren't killing the economy or putting merchants out of business on their own. The single biggest draw to SL that will bring people in, in large numbers will be that they can make "money". The existence of freebies "at all" in a "Marketplace" sends a message of lack of commitment to merchants that are trying to earn, whether freebies are good, bad or a non-issue. They simply never needed to be in the Marketplace, it should have been a dedicated space to ... you guessed it, people trying to earn something other than the feel-good factor. Tolerating silliness and trolling, taking away office hours, huge gap between merchants and commerce savvy Lindens. They're adults in the commerce space while we're just children in the scheme of things. Complete lack of dedication to merchants as professionals and treatment of them as such. Years for a glorified shopping cart with slick features, lack of any sort of commerce related dialog. I get more of a sense of being a professional from an everyday phone call on a trivial issue in RL business than anything here in SL. General answer to "how can we get involved in the economy more deeply" ... "don't worry about it, keep making more content". It adds up. It shows in topics like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Actually this kind of mess isn't in the pets category... I've noticed it when clothes shopping, hair, shoes, in other categories it is kind of hard to miss... I did take some of your advice on keywords, thanks again! ... my cats are now findable by typing free cat food, free pet food etc.... :matte-motes-asleep-2: Otherwise though, I'm not really interested in further tricks, like making my customers run around "buying" freebie food from marketplace over & over... devolving a convenient free feed system & into a marketing gimmick just so I get personal benefit of being up on first page. I'm also just not terribly interested in making pet accessories to be front page. I just love to make animals.... so that is what I do. If I was here for maximum profits, I'd probably make skins & sexywear :matte-motes-grin: All things considered, I think I'm doing okay & I'm having fun as a merchant, but regardless of my personal situation, I still see how marketplace could be vastly improved & I see things could be better for everyone. Interesting specific keyword to bring up though & you said you like the results..... :matte-motes-stress: Do you see any cats at all on the first two pages typing "Pet Cat"? I see some nice quality dogs & lots of miscategorized breedable game components, but not one pet cat to be seen on first two pages. I've got some nice cats, they sell fine inworld, they sold fine on Xstreet. On marketplace they are difficult to discover. That's a different set of problems demonstrated in the pet category: poor relevancy & rampant miscategorization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I did not refer to "tricks." if you want people who are interested in "free pet food" as you stated very clearly....then you offer free pet food. Attaching a 600L pet to a "free pet food" keyword is not what I intended in my suggestion. People want inexpensive items. That does not mean that they are freeloaders or junk collectors or whatever it is this thread thinks they are. You offer a mix of price ranges and you will get on the pages you want for sales and exposure, and you will gain some new customers that were looking for something inexpensive one day, and want to splurge for a deluxe model the next day. Any more marketing advice is wasted here. Completely wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Malibu Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 OMG you sound just like the webmaster on GFY.com complaining about how Tube Sites are ruining adult membership sites, though I have many clients still making millions. I agree with Ishy, Sassy, Josh and others in large part. On Ishy's point, I can relate in that having 4 level 85's fully geared, I am proud of the fact that I fully geared them and worked my ass for all of my mounts, trinkets, armor and such. It took a ton of work as do my wares in SL. It's all about achievement for me though for some, it's all about complaining why their sales suck and want something or someone to blame. However, my sales don't suck and have never sucked as long as I do what I need to do to be successful. Linden Labs does not control my success nor do other merchants. If there are road blocks, I find ways to get around them. If the system does not suit my processes, I create new processes and pathways to success. If you think this place sucks, then try another game. I assure you this, you WILL be back. RedLight center is actually one of my clients. Do I sell there? No way! You want to see some serious junk, go check out the garbage users make there. The point is, Freebies do not cause poor retention any more than fish cause waves. It's preposterous to even think in such limited terms. I have been in the online business as an executive for some of the largest internet companies in the world. How a freebie converts to retention is just not something that happens. Look at Google where everything is free. Do you think they have retention issues? SL is whatever you have it be. If you want an elegant home and to look your best, it will cost you. If you want to run around with freebies, then all the power to you.It's your game, your choice. If cost compression gets to the point where I can not longer compete, then I'm gone or I'm making freebies. Either way, it's still just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agreed with a post here, but I don't share the viewpoint of the entire thread. Freebies -- the good quality original ones -- likely do encourage retention rates... & probably do more to help SL than hurt. Obviously, Second Life needs a good selection of affordable goods... I like to find a good deal myself! OFF TOPIC: What I ended up doing was not what you intended I guess, but this is a virtual pet with built-in health system. The cat can be fed at zero cost forever with this health system, so the keyword fits nicely & clears up any confusion people might have... thinking they have to pay for food separately. I misunderstood your advice I guess... but thanks anyways, its a happy accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I just skimmed all the posts so far and didn't see potentially the most important consideration mentioned at all. If someone mentioned it, I'm sorry, and I promise I'll read everything eventually. MY POINT: Even if the case against freebies were a viable case as recently as 5 years ago, (not that I think it was), it wouldn't be anymore because the genie is out of the bottle. Unless the OP is advocating the desctruction of all existing freebied in-world, the total prevention of new freebies would just increase the demand for the existing ones by eliminating competition for their survival with new freebies... thus assuring that, as SL grows, the use of freebies will consist more and more of fewer and fewer types of freebies. Is that what the OP wants, or does the OP want to eradicate the existing freebies? If there's some 3rd choice that would satisfy the OP, what would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I've never been really clear on what the OP wants, as he has never been willing to share his product line. Simply sharing that might make it more understandable, but have nothing to go on. but he will dang sure diss others' products and pricing whenever he gets a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Freebies aren't the cause of low retention, it doesn't take someone long to figure out they can pay for items, those who will leave because of freebies wouldn't stay if freebies are eliminated because they want freebies, so low quality freebies or no freebies at all isn't going to make an iota of difference to them, well other than no freebies would probably make them leave sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Josh Susanto wrote: If there's some 3rd choice that would satisfy the OP, what would that be? Charging hundreds of dollars to be a content creator has been on the agenda before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Mickey, what I want is for Secondlife to succeed and prosper and I don't see that happening when the world is overwhelmed with junk, free or otherwise There have been several possible good solutions in the thread such as separate areas for junk and freebies, listing fees, mechanisms to remove stale content, premium account only to sell at the marketplace etc Junk and freebies, which are effectively product spam, is a real issue that is damaging the Secondlife brand and preventing growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Chelsea, what you should ask yourself is : If we have 16000 sign ups a day, where are they all ? How come concurrency figures have been the same for the last 2 years and slipping ? How come the grid is shrinking ? we lose sims every month If we forget Tier costs as the biggest factor in regards to lack of growth and stagnancy, Number 2 on the list of reason why 16000 people a day log off and never come back, is the fact that SL doesn't look engaging enough and it doesn't look engaging enough because of one thing - JUNK, junk, junk 16000 people a day are interested enough in this virtual world to register, why do they not stay ? It's either because 16000 are too stupid to handle the interface - which they're not - or they see stuff that they don't like Human beings are visual creatures, it's our strongest perception of the world around us. Secondlife just does not look good enough and it is the junk that is driving them away 'Denial ain't just a river in Egypt' Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yoki Enoch wrote: Freebies improve rention rates. If people come in here for the first time and see that they have to pay for everything right off the bat, they will get turned off. Your thesis is severly flawed. I bought lots of clothes, a skin, hair, a plot of land, a prefab, furniture, and plants on day one. That used to be the thing to do back when LL demanded a credit card number during account signup. People who are willing to spend a little money on their digital entertainment won't be discouraged by commercial content, and aren't those exactly the people that we want to retain? Differently put: Both Armani and the Red Cross distribute clothing. Who do you think makes more revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 You would think. And that's a point, but when you're operating marketing on a shoestring and relying on mutant crowdsourcing to carry the load, more is better and devaluing graphics work, programming and other skills are the name of the game. Our founder appears to be bringing that concept to devaluing labor in another venture. Apparently need more legislation on labor laws, but that's another story. So much for creating dependable jobs as one good way of changing the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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