WADE1 Jya Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Anyone with photos of mesh they are working on currently feel free to share your pics here...I'll start with my foxes. Prototype, not entirely complete yet.Still haven't textured these either.... but wanted to share them anyways... yay! :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:The above is an earlier render outside SL.... & now in the pic below, here they are in Second Life: 15PE each, which is acceptable I guess.... but I will work to reduce the PE further until they are ultralight........and I'll smooth them out a little more until they look perfect in SL :matte-motes-sunglasses-1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Jessop Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Looking good You can see heaps of meshes here too! http://www.flickr.com/groups/secondlife3dmesh/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I did this the other day. I like it. And I finished my zombie. Actually, I went back in and did a little more modeling adjustments after this picture, lol. .Oh, the zombie is scripted, not an avatar, and he is only 5 prims without scripts. 10 prims with scripts and that is out of 8 actual prims, so the scripts cost me 2 prims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 WADE1 Jya wrote: 15PE each, which is acceptable I guess.... but I will work to reduce the PE further until they are ultralight.... ....and I'll smooth them out a little more until they look perfect in SL :matte-motes-sunglasses-1: Did you make your own physics boxes? That can lower your physics cost and your overall cost. Check to see what is actually making the cost that high, cause i would kind of consider that high for the size of those. And, the last 2 LODs are what will cost the most. You can set the 2nd LOD to almost the same as the original model and it will make almost no difference in the cost, but the last LOD will end up costing you the most. If you can except a poor rendering at a very far distance, then your overall cost should go WAY down. I'm ok with a lower last LOD because these are for combat and I want to reduce LODs when I can to lower any kind of lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yay! Thanks for sharing Medhue! That's a great zombie :matte-motes-sick: looks like a cool game! :smileyhappy: I have saves of my models with much lower vertice, really blocky, so it should be easy to reduce this a whole lot more. I did some indiscrimate subdivision with too many passes too, that can be removed & will save lots of triangles. I'll knock out the lowest LOD to something bare minimal as you suggest, that works for me too! I'm aiming to have each of my models be 2PE (pre-scripts) if possible :matte-motes-grin: as long as I only make small things I should be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks York! I joined that group too, there is some great work there to check out :matte-motes-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I had a request from a customer for a fan. Actually she had asked for a sculpted fan, but I was curious to see how it would come out in mesh. Result: 8 prims. I showed it to her. It was not the a big issue for her that the fan was in mesh in stead of in sculpt. But the fan itself was not what she had ment to be. She wanted a traditional Japanse fan. She explained to me that those look exactly the same at the front and the back, and the sticks are hidden between the paper. It was more easy to model a complete new fan than to adjust the first one.The model is also much lighter, the result after upload was 3 prims. The fan untextured: Making the UV map was at least as much work as making the fan itself. But once the UV map exists it's very easy to make new texture variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Beautiful fans you made, Madeliefste! Thanks again for the tips, Medhue, your advice combined with some other tweaks, I got my fox down to be counting as just 3 prim now (I'll hit 2 PE yet :matte-motes-grin:)... and funny thing is it looks better now too, looks just like my render from outside SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 That looks realy realy nice, very realistic, well done and for me it looks just right ;-) I can confirm that creating the UV-layouts for the LOD's can realy be a bunch of extra work. However one remark about the PE: From just looking at the image i count about 100 faces on the entire object. even taking into account that it has a front side and a back side. Also the fan is very small (surely much less than 1 meter bounding box radius ;-). So from all experiences i have so far, it should be no big deal to get its PE down to 2. Which of the weights does make it go up to 3 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Daguerre Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Absolutely beautiful work! I love the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Daguerre Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 They are looking pretty good. Are you going to script the wolves? If you do, please let me know how that affects their PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I did stick a script in there just today! Surprisingly, it added nothing to PE. Earlier iterations of this same model, adding a script would cost 1 or 2 PE. I guess I'm learning this new system pretty good! :matte-motes-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 NP, Wade1! :smileyhappy: 3 PE is damn good for that, I think. I just want to mention a bit more about LODs. I do not make my own LODs. As Gaia said, this is a ton of work. Physics boxes are easy, so I do make those. IMHO, the uploader can do a very good job with most LODs, depending on the model, and depending on how you adjust them. It seems to me that if you combine all your separate elements into 1, or make just 1 mesh, the LODs won't be as good as if you made all the parts as separate meshes. Separate meshes forces the LOD generator to create separate LODs for each mesh which makes the overall shape look better. I also suggest actually typing in the amount of triangles, rather than just clicking the up/down buttons, especially on the lowested LOD. 100 triangles, or even 50, here or there on the lowest LOD makes a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Vivienne Daguerre wrote: They are looking pretty good. Are you going to script the wolves? If you do, please let me know how that affects their PE. In my zombies, they were 5 PE when just linked with no scripts. This jumped to 10 PE with scripts, but consider that the actual amount of prims is 8, not 5. So, in actuality, I only gained 2 prims. This also was the same for my alligators. The gators with no scripts were 6 PE, but actually 7 prims. With scripts, the gator is 9 PE. So again, that is 2 more prims then what the real prim count was, not the PE. IDK, it is all kinda weird. Oh, sitting here, that makes me think, is it really good to break up a mesh then? In my case, I have to break them up, as I need to animate the parts, but if some1 was going to make something that does not move, then just making 1 solid mesh would maybe be better. That is, if a mesh with a script is truely affected by the actual amount of prims, versus the PE. I think we need some further verification on how a mesh with a script is expected to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Gaia Clary wrote: From just looking at the image i count about 100 faces on the entire object. even taking into account that it has a front side and a back side. Also the fan is very small (surely much less than 1 meter bounding box radius ;-). So from all experiences i have so far, it should be no big deal to get its PE down to 2. Which of the weights does make it go up to 3 ? Actually I have no idea, Gaia. I still don't understand how the PE is calculated. My mind just doesn't seem to function when it comes to formulas that calculate things. I'm this far that I understand I must try to keep the number of polygons as low as possible and that adding a simplified physic shape helps to keep the primcount low. But for the rest, the whole proces of how the prim count is calculated is one big abracadabra to me. I just leave it up to the uploader to do the magic trick of prim count calculation and see what comes out. When I used the uploader the prim count that it gave was 1,8. But the scale of my model was too small, so once uploaded I had to make the object bigger... and that is what made it count for 3 prims in stead of 2 prims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Jessop Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Ive been wondering this too Medhue, as a buildings er builder I have been considering using linked meshes. One of the main reasons is how I have started constructing my buildings differently, instead of a mesh basically having interior rooms and exterior walls all connected into 1 model, I have decided to do an exterior 'shell' with an interior 'shell' instead. This makes it alot easier to actually work on but I also had the idea of uploading them seperately, as you would never really see the interior from distance it would allow me to use no LODs at all on the interior and just having to do exterior LODs it also makes texture matching a much more simple process. The only thing putting me off right now is that i intend to use scripts, which really makes the linking option a no go because of the way it doubles per script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 1 thing to consider is that it is not per script. I have multiple scripts in each parts of the models and the PE hit is only once. Gaia is making some good points in another thread that totally make sense with what I'm seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Daguerre Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have some sculpted animals that are animated by script for hunting. I had thought about waiting for mesh to make them, but I am glad I did not now. My animals average somewhere around 20 sculpted prims, and each piece has a script in them. If I had tired to do that with mesh, each piece would be a minimum PE of 2, plus at least 1 prim for script, making the animal 60 PE instead of 20. With the penalties applied to mesh, my animals are better done in sculpties. I plan to make other animals for other types of hunting systems, such as Northern Forest, African Safari, etc. and they will be made as sculpties unless two things happen: 1) it becomes possible to make 1 prim meshes; and 2) the script penalty is removed. With ten to twelve spawn points and animals roaming a sim at any given time, the prim count becomes very important to sim owners, costing about 200 to 240 prims for the sculpted animals, or 600 to 720 prims for mesh animals. It is not a difficult decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drongle McMahon Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The script doubling really only happens if your components each have streaming and physics cost less than 1. If they are more complex than that, the server weight is always lower than the PE, even with scripts, and scripts make no difference to the PE. Essentially, the script effect on server weight just increases the minimum size you should make the pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Jessop Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Yeah I noticed the Linking/Script thing after reading the forums today, enlightening stuff Ill have to run some further tests to see if uploading my builds in sections will give better PE results, I think it will, even with scripts because of the no LOD on interiors which will save an immense amount of PEage. I was wondering however, if its 8 UVMaps per section, if I say linked 2 sections would I still be able to have 8 per section? come to think of it, will it work if i upload an exterior with LOD and link it to an interior without? I probably need to get back on the grid and do some more tests lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drongle McMahon Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Linking in SL has no effect on the materials or LODs of the individual linked meshes. Joining two meshes into one before upload mesns that the combined mesh can only have 8 materials and must have the same LOD setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Jessop Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Excellent news, plan A is steaming ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'm sure you are probably more capable than I, but I would urge you to test a mesh version out before you assume that it will cost you alot. As I was trying to point out, my mesh monsters and animals are all turning out to be less prims than their sculpty counter parts. Not only are they less prims, but they only use 1 texture. If I wanted more detail, I could use 2 UV Maps, but I think I'm getting decent results cramming everything into 1. Plus, since I'm using so little data, compared to the sculpty versions, I have room to play around and be creative. Heck, even thinking of adding particles and stuff to it. Here is a look at how the mesh versions function. It is an empty sim, but it performed pretty flawlessly. I've actually made quite a few more changes since this video, mostly just texture detail and stuff like that tho. Oh and the sight on my M4 was off, so I miss alot. The farthest LODs are very poor tho, but I kind of had to do that to keep the PE low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Daguerre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Pretty cool Medhue! And that is encouraging and good to know. I still don't think scripts should have any influence on PE. I understand that the Lindens made a mistake with scripts in not building in any kind of controls over them. They may wish to find a way to encourage more efficient scripting and reduction of unnecesary scripts through deletion or setting scripts to not running. Trying to fix the problem by discouraging the use of scripts in mesh is just piling another mistake on top of an old one. The biggest offenders with scripts are avatar attachments. They should focus on limiting or throttling avatar attachment scripts and providing tools to enable land owners to find poorly written scripts that gobble up sim resources and create lag. They should enable an owner of an object, or the land owner, or perhaps both, to disable a script and stop it from running, even if the object is no mod. There are far better and simpler solutions to the script problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Yeah that game is looking too cool! I got a chance to UV map mine & loosely rough out the textures today. So I took a couple process pics: Hurrah! My fox is 2 PE niaow! :matte-motes-dead: Nice to have all the technical stuff done... tomorrow is time to get real artsy with this! :matte-motes-asleep-2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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