"Where's your head at?" ~Basement Jaxx (credit where it's due) ;)

[Gabriele Graves]

10 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That Nux can't get here fast enough.. hehehe

This raises an interesting point.  Are the Nux heads going to be using the EvoX UV map or the SLUV?  It's going to cause problems either way now that much of the market is oriented to EvoX and now that appliers seem to be rising again for at least heads.  One step forwards and three steps backwards for simplicity for newbies which ever way you look at it.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya,  There are many that think they will wreck it, not realizing that if they click "Save As" rather than " Save", it saves the version you started with.. Quick save or save, might be what some have done and wrecked theirs.. 

I hate seeing people come into a group kind of panicked thinking they trashed their look because they hit Save.. It's like I can feel their pain and can't get to them fast enough to tell them, drop the box it came in and get another copy of the shape..

New users have so much going on with the curve that I'm supersized it doesn't happen a lot more than it does..

When we started, we just had to learn how to shape and shop and just everything that was SL.. The new users have mesh and everything that goes with that  and piece parting everything together and  still have to learn everything else we did for the most part..

That Nux can't get here fast enough.. hehehe

That's the one thing I'm obsessed with - making copies of copies of copies. And I keep my original unpack HUDs/boxes on top of that.

Need to adjust my unrigged hair? Better copy it first - oh No Mod in inventory? No problem - toss it into a folder and name it "Resized for Alain" or whatever the heck I'm doing with it.

Want to use the same ears with 4 different skins? Copy - New folder - For Orc, New folder - For Harpy, New folder - For Pink Mermaid, New folder - For Ford, etc.

Ack I should tint my body and head just a tad bit blue, my skin is too orange - New folder - Tinted Version. New folder - Untinted Version.

And forget the shapes. So, so many shapes. At least those can be renamed and tossed into a generic folder for the head I made them on. 😄

[Stephanie Misfit]

7 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

This raises an interesting point.  Are the Nux heads going to be using the EvoX UV map or the SLUV?  It's going to cause problems either way now that much of the market is oriented to EvoX and now that appliers seem to be rising again for at least heads.  One step forwards and three steps backwards for simplicity for newbies which ever way you look at it.

Can't imagine LL tying themselves to a specific creator like that. What are they going to do, put the LeLutka logo on their own avatar, to show it is compatible? It would also set Nux up to directly compete with LeLutka as a free product.

[Gabriele Graves]

4 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Can't imagine LL tying themselves to a specific creator like that. What are they going to do, put the LeLutka logo on their own avatar, to show it is compatible? It would also set Nux up to directly compete with LeLutka as a free product.

It's gone beyond a single creator though as evidenced on other creator's heads.  Quite possibly in the future the EvoX UV will be the only standard that will matter unless something else happens along.  Even today at all events and most popular stores EvoX BoM is so prominent that it eclipses all other BoM for heads which probably means failure to adopt it means failure.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Ceka Cianci]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

This raises an interesting point.  Are the Nux heads going to be using the EvoX UV map or the SLUV?  It's going to cause problems either way now that much of the market is oriented to EvoX and now that appliers seem to be rising again for at least heads.  One step forwards and three steps backwards for simplicity for newbies which ever way you look at it.

Unless they are setup like Lelutka and do regular maps and the Evox maps. I would think someone had to think of that, but you never know..  it would be something to bring up for sure.. hehehe

[Gabriele Graves]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Unless they are setup like Lelutka and do regular maps and the Evox maps. I would think someone had to think of that, but you never know..  it would be something to bring up for sure.. hehehe

That's also quite possible but also raises the complexity of understanding how to use them and what to shop for, for newbies.  They'll need different skins for SLUV/EvoX in order to utilise both modes properly.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Gabriele Graves said:

That's also quite possible but also raises the complexity of understanding how to use them for newbies.

Ya, but it might be good to learn that pretty early on  though also..

They might also just not bother with it and keep seeing Nux as a learning mesh tool, like it's really meant for..  

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya, but it might be good to learn that pretty early on  though also..

They might also just not bother with it and keep seeing Nux as a learning mesh tool, like it's really meant for..  

Pretty sure for a lot of new people it won't work like that though.  Probably a lot will quit if it's too complex and LL is trying to simplify things for new people but they still just seem to get more complex by the day.

[Ceka Cianci]

15 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Pretty sure for a lot of new people it won't work like that though.  Probably a lot will quit if it's too complex and LL is trying to simplify things for new people but they still just seem to get more complex by the day.

I'm thinking they are going to be born with the nux on.. I think a lot quit just from the piecing of different mesh brands and everything that goes with that, from collecting them and getting something they can use..

That's a really frustrating process..  They'll have the body, the head and huds and AO, then hair and wardrobe..

So they can at least take their time a little more at learning things and not get overwhelmed with how to work this piece and that piece and how come this piece doesn't work on this head or body..

Just getting passed the hump of something they feel comfy walking around in is a big part of keeping them here or frustrating them right out the door from clumping things together..

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Breezeibaby]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:30 PM, Santanna Surya said:

But seriously. I have a pretty important question. 

What is THE head to buy? Is there something on the horizon that is going to be the IT head to purchase soon? Any news, or insight to share?  I want a head that is as up to date as possible, and will have plenty of options to purchase, to go along with that particular head. 

I was a happy Genus user, then I was 'talked' into getting the Catwa HD Pro, and pretty much as soon as I purchased it, and all the things I needed to go with it...Lelutka Evo X was like, THE THING! Now, after being patient, it is quite clear, that Catwa HD Pro, is just old, and not many creators are making new makeups, skins etc. for it. 

I just want to know if anyone knows, is it time to upgrade to Lelutka Evo X, or is there something new I should just wait for? I'm sorry I have not used the forums before,  (I'm only 16 years in SL, lol) so forgive any missteps I may be taking, but I truly want to purchase something that is going to last for awhile, and have components such as makeup, skin, etc. readily available.  I have noticed there is something new in the ads I am seeing along with LelEvoX compatibility, which begins with an 'A' I believe, that I have not seen before.

Any help would be so appreciated. I thank you all in advance for your input.If someone could steer me in the right direction, I would be so grateful.  

Honestly I have demoed a few of those catwas genius I highly suggest after a year lelukta evox they make plenty make up and skins tattoos and more hope this helps 

[Gabriele Graves]

16 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm thinking they are going to be born with the nux on.. I think a lot quit just from the piecing of different mesh brands and everything that goes with that, from collecting them and getting something they can use..

That's a really frustrating process..  They'll have the body, the head and huds and AO, then hair and wardrobe..

So they can at least take their time a little more at learning things and not get overwhelmed with how to work this piece and that piece and how come this piece doesn't work on this head or body..

Just getting passed the hump of something they feel comfy walking around in is a big part of keeping them here or frustrating them right out the door from clumping things together..

 

Time will tell on that but it isn't in question that this aspect of avatar customisation is now more complex than it was before EvoX and in my opinion that doesn't help.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Time will tell on that but it isn't in question that this aspect of avatar customisation is now more complex than it was before EvoX and in my opinion that doesn't help.

It was more meant as, a big part of the hump is now out of the way on the backside to where they can actually put that energy elsewhere into good productive learning about SL at a much more relaxed pace.. Rather than putting it towards first feeling they have to get a usable avatar together..

They can now start from a better place, which saves on a lot of frustration..  Learning to match items with the brands they will work with..

There really isn't much more of a curve added because something is Evo x or not.. There will always be having to learn that, this thing works with or will not work with this body and this head..

 

Now the newer users of today can tell the Nux avatars users "You think you have it hard? You should have seen what we had to go through before the Nux!! \o/"

hehehehe

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Gabriele Graves]

38 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It was more meant as, a big part of the hump is now out of the way on the backside to where they can actually put that energy elsewhere into good productive learning about SL at a much more relaxed pace.. Rather than putting it towards first feeling they have to get a usable avatar together..

They can now start from a better place, which saves on a lot of frustration..  Learning to match items with the brands they will work with..

It'll only be a leg-up if the person is OK with the defaults and presets that are offered with the bodies otherwise they will want to change it which will mean having to learn that.

38 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

There really isn't much more of a curve added because something is Evo x or not.. There will always be having to learn that, this thing works with or will not work with this body and this head..

We'll have to disagree on this.  It may seem that way to us but I've seen people struggle with things we think of as easy.  Nothing can be taken anything for granted whether we are talking brand spanking new accounts or a little bit later when those accounts start to try and tackle these aspects of customization.

I've seen people buy skin appliers and get frustrated when they don't work because they don't understand that they are for a specific body or head and won't work with the system body/head.  Some don't even know that there are specific bodies or heads at first.  They don't even know that bodies and heads are sold separately.

I've seen people buy shapes and confuse them with skins and vice-versa.  Same with skins and bodies.

Some people throw a lot of money at buying avatar parts in their early days without realising these compatibility issues exist and then lose interest when they realise that what they bought was useless.

The terminology is confusing.  EvoX is a head type, a HUD head mode, a uv map type and branding.  For example: some HD appliers are branded as EvoX, even though they work in both Evo and EvoX mode but will not work with another EvoX compatible head from another company whilst the BoM layers do but only work in one mode or the other, not both.

People getting their heads/bodies to match causes a lot of angst, now they have to try to figure out why their ears don't match too.

The list goes on and that's just what I've come across from new and not quite as new people and I'm pretty sure these are fairly common types of issues.

Not all of these things are because of EvoX but my point was that now it's more complex than before, not simpler.  It doesn't matter if it is a lot or by not much (which is very subjective anyway), it is heading in the wrong direction.
 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Ayashe Ninetails]

46 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People getting their heads/bodies to match causes a lot of angst, now they have to try to figure out why their ears don't match too.

The one thing that drove me absolutely bonkers when helping newbies in skin stores was when the store had BOM demos for their heads, but applier-based demos for the body. The frustrating part was the BOM body would be in the full version, so your demo setup wasn't exactly how your purchased version setup would be (required different alpha configs).

Not naming names here, but one of my favorite stores had this setup (not sure if it's still this way - hope not) and man did it confuse everyone I tried to help. Heck, it confused ME and I was already full BOM for ages when I encountered it! I had completely forgotten how to wear applier skins by then.😂

And we're not going to talk about putting the BOM face on the skin layer and the body on the tattoo layer either, nu uh.

I love the skins too much to whine about it, but man...it took me a bit to wrap my head around all that at first. Imagine how newbies must feel.

On the other hand, it's funny how we get so used to setting ourselves up a certain way that when we find something in a different configuration, it throws us completely off our game. Or is that just a me thing? 😏🤣

[Ceka Cianci]

49 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It'll only be a leg-up if the person is OK with the defaults and presets that are offered with the bodies otherwise they will want to change it which will mean having to learn that.

We'll have to disagree on this.  It may seem that way to us but I've seen people struggle with things we think of as easy.  Nothing can be taken anything for granted whether we are talking brand spanking new accounts or a little bit later when those accounts start to try and tackle these aspects of customization.

I've seen people buy skin appliers and get frustrated when they don't work because they don't understand that they are for a specific body or head and won't work with the system body/head.  Some don't even know that there are specific bodies or heads at first.  They don't even know that bodies and heads are sold separately.

I've seen people buy shapes and confuse them with skins and vice-versa.  Same with skins and bodies.

Some people throw a lot of money at buying avatar parts in their early days without realising these compatibility issues exist and then lose interest when they realise that what they bought was useless.

The terminology is confusing.  EvoX is a head type, a HUD head mode, a uv map type and branding.  For example: some HD appliers are branded as EvoX, even though they work in both Evo and EvoX mode but will not work with another EvoX compatible head from another company whilst the BoM layers do but only work in one mode or the other, not both.

People getting their heads/bodies to match causes a lot of angst, now they have to try to figure out why their ears don't match too.

The list goes on and that's just what I've come across from new and not quite as new people and I'm pretty sure these are fairly common types of issues.

Not all of these things are because of EvoX but my point was that now it's more complex than before, not simpler.  It doesn't matter if it is a lot or by not much (which is very subjective anyway), it is heading in the wrong direction.
 

Ya we probably won't end up agreeing and that's ok

But I just want to say why I have good strong feelings about it.. And less hair.. hehehehe

I just recently put myself through the start area to see what it was like nowadays for a new user.. mayeb a couple months back..

I came at it from the perspective that I was brand new.. No cheating by giving myself money, only spend what I made .. no bringing in anything that I already know, not one bit of info from my head... That's viewer features or knowing what a land mark is or how to move or anything at all.. Just a dead blank slate..

The place that my alt was born wasn't even a linden start area, it was some user owned and created start area.. the worst start area I have been to out of all of the ones I have been to.. the lack of information and how fast they wanted to push a new user to that freebie store across the bridge was just silly terrible..

I got some of the basics out of that place, but it really was pushing more to lead me to socialize than to learn anything there. I mean right before the tutorials it has a sign that say's, go right to socialize with others, go left for the tutorials..

Socializing shouldn't have even been an option 30 meters away from the landing point..

Anyways, One of the things I wanted to do as well was, to see how long it would take to put an nice avatar together..

I'm gonna cut it short here and say, after a week, I gave up on it and just had to get back to my regular SL.. there are so many steps just to get to the point of just starting to make an avatar..

If you want to get a good taste of what it's like now.. Give that a try and go in there as a blank slate as if you don't know anything at all.. No search terms  or anything at all.. See how much hair you have left at the end of the week.. hehehehe

It's really the main reason I really started looking forward to the Nux and thinking it's going to be better than what they are starting with now.. I got a good taste of the frustration and it made me give up.. It will be a long time before I try that again.. hehehehe

 

Also about the appliers.. I believe those have pretty much been dying off since BOM came along.. None will work on the Lelutka Evox heads and I believe the AK advanced heads are all BOM as well..

I haven't really noticed them getting more popular, but really fading out more than anything..

 

Either way, the nux will be out in a couple of months, so hopefully it does have a good impact and not a bad one

I don't mean to come off like it is going to be this or be that.. I'm just hoping hard for it  to be a good thing..

 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya we probably won't end up agreeing and that's ok

It's all good from my side too.

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

But I just want to say why I have good strong feelings about it.. And less hair.. hehehehe

I just recently put myself through the start area to see what it was like nowadays for a new user.. mayeb a couple months back..

I came at it from the perspective that I was brand new.. No cheating by giving myself money, only spend what I made .. no bringing in anything that I already know, not one bit of info from my head... That's viewer features or knowing what a land mark is or how to move or anything at all.. Just a dead blank slate..

The place that my alt was born wasn't even a linden start area, it was some user owned and created start area.. the worst start area I have been to out of all of the ones I have been to.. the lack of information and how fast they wanted to push a new user to that freebie store across the bridge was just silly terrible..

I got some of the basics out of that place, but it really was pushing more to lead me to socialize than to learn anything there. I mean right before the tutorials it has a sign that say's, go right to socialize with others, go left for the tutorials..

Socializing shouldn't have even been an option 30 meters away from the landing point..

Anyways, One of the things I wanted to do as well was, to see how long it would take to put an nice avatar together..

I'm gonna cut it short here and say, after a week, I gave up on it and just had to get back to my regular SL.. there are so many steps just to get to the point of just starting to make an avatar..

If you want to get a good taste of what it's like now.. Give that a try and go in there as a blank slate as if you don't know anything at all.. No search terms  or anything at all.. See how much hair you have left at the end of the week.. hehehehe

It's really the main reason I really started looking forward to the Nux and thinking it's going to be better than what they are starting with now.. I got a good taste of the frustration and it made me give up.. It will be a long time before I try that again.. hehehehe

I can almost feel the pain myself.  It's definitely daunting.

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 

Also about the appliers.. I believe those have pretty much been dying off since BOM came along.. None will work on the Lelutka Evox heads and I believe the AK advanced heads are all BOM as well..

I haven't really noticed them getting more popular, but really fading out more than anything..

All of those HD lips and eye makeups are appliers, the only difference from before is that it is HD.  There are even several smaller onion-skin layers so they can be blended.  Unfortunately because most creators of makeups like the larger HD area (a 1024x1024 texture just for lips and another for the eye area) to paint in, the majority of makeups I've seen for Lelutka heads are not BoM but HD appliers.  EvoX BoM doesn't give them the same space because the lips and eye makeup area share the 1024 texture with the head so they are not even close to the same resolution.

It's funny because all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the non-HD appliers and the forecasting how BoM would save the day.  For EvoX heads it isn't really much different from before.  If bodies go the same HD way, appliers will be back in force there too I predict as BoM just doesn't have the texture space for a major upgrade.

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Either way, the nux will be out in a couple of months, so hopefully it does have a good impact and not a bad one

I think Nux is a good thing too, it's a very positive step forward from LL.  I just think it might not solve as many of the issues as it might have done when we were all using SLUV.

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I don't mean to come off like it is going to be this or be that.. I'm just hoping hard for it  to be a good thing..

You don't come off as anything except having a robust discussion with me and I hope I do as well.
 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Ceka Cianci]

19 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

The one thing that drove me absolutely bonkers when helping newbies in skin stores was when the store had BOM demos for their heads, but applier-based demos for the body. The frustrating part was the BOM body would be in the full version, so your demo setup wasn't exactly how your purchased version setup would be (required different alpha configs).

Not naming names here, but one of my favorite stores had this setup (not sure if it's still this way - hope not) and man did it confuse everyone I tried to help. Heck, it confused ME and I was already full BOM for ages when I encountered it! I had completely forgotten how to wear applier skins by then.😂

And we're not going to talk about putting the BOM face on the skin layer and the body on the tattoo layer either, nu uh.

I love the skins too much to whine about it, but man...it took me a bit to wrap my head around all that at first. Imagine how newbies must feel.

On the other hand, it's funny how we get so used to setting ourselves up a certain way that when we find something in a different configuration, it throws us completely off our game. Or is that just a me thing? 😏🤣

That's the bad thing about most of the mesh freebies aimed at new users close to them areas they hit after the start zones.. Most are all applier and no bom and out of date.. Even the lucybody needs to get the Bom pack  which ends up pulling that out of the freebie market into the BOM world. 

The only two that I can think of are the genus head and the Rebirth, which Rebirth is really a dollarbie..

I'm probably forgetting something..

But Ya, I'm hoping a lot of those headaches go away when they start,starting off with a Bom body and head from the get go..

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

All of those HD lips and eye makeups are appliers, the only difference from before is that it is HD.  There even several smaller onion-skins parts so they can be blended.  Unfortunately because most creators of makeups like the larger HD area (a 1024x1024 texture just for lips and another for the eye area) to paint in, the majority of makeups I've seen for Lelutka heads are not BoM but HD appliers.  EvoX BoM doesn't give them the same space because the lips and eye makeup area share the 1024 texture with the head so they are no even close to the same resolution.

It's funny because all the wailing and gnashing of teach about the non-HD appliers and the forecasting how BoM would save the day.  For EvoX heads it isn't really much different from before.  If bodies go the same HD way, appliers will be back in force there too I predict as BoM just doesn't have the texture space for a major upgrade.

Ahh Ya, I see what you are saying now.. I had skins on the brain.. hehehe

Myself, I'm not much of a fan of a lot of the HD things, because they sit over things I wear.. Although some things are nice in the head huds, like eye shadow and nails on the body hud.. that's about as HD as I get.. hehehe

I think Belleza was trying to do something with their body skins on the GenX with the feet kind of being like the ears on an evox head..

There are two versions of the body and there are two types of skins that a GenX can wear.. One for the SLUV maps and one for the custom feet maps or whatever they did with that one.  I really can't tell a difference from either body, other than one has nicer feet that the other.. LOL

I think they were trying to start something ground breaking. I don't think it caught on like they thought it was gonna.. I sure hope those feet aren't the reason I paid 5500 for that thing.. lol

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Ceka Cianci