Need avatar customization help

[MandyOsho]

I went away from SL for 4-5 years after having used it a lot for at least 10 years before that. And I'm starting over with a new account and avatar and I wanted to create myself one of those absolutely beautiful looking female avatars I see running around all over the place.

And I must confess that I find it completely impossible to figure out how to do anything. I remember that it was difficult to figure out how to buy and wear avatar shapes/skins and accessories back in circa 2006 or so, but not completely impossible the way it seems now.

I have come to the conclusion that I just need to have someone walk me through both the shopping process (what shops actually have the best / most beautiful avatars/shapes?) and the entire avatar customization process, or I will just give up on SL at this point. But I have noticed in a few other discussions that I researched, that whenever someone asks for personal help/teaching like this, there seems to be a lot of people who jump all over the person asking ("you need to learn how to do it yourself" blah blah blah).

Honestly, I just want to establish a really pretty-looking avatar and then I'll probably never even change it again (when I took a break from SL before after 10 years, I had an avatar that I had been using for about the last 9 years of that 10 years, that I was completely happy with and never changed). And if I DO need to change one or two small aspects of the overall look, maybe THAT will at least not be beyond my intellectual capacity 

So the question becomes, is there anyone out there who is an expert at how to put together a great looking female avatar? I will pay $10,000 lindens/hour for someone to spend up to a couple of hours working with me in real time via zoom screensharing to get this done. Otherwise (after buying something from one shop and having no freaking clue as to what to do next) I will probably just give up on my reboot of SL.

If I should be putting this request in the classified ads section of SL rather than in here, I apologize.

Mandy

Edited March 28, 2021 by MandyOsho
clarification

[Doris Johnsky]

A lot of what you ask depends on the amount of L$ you want to spend. There a lot of very pretty heads. If you're not concerned about expense, then go to MP and look till you find what you like. I was like you. I had a ok face but it wasn't what I wanted. I finally bought a fairly inexpensive shape and paired it with a Danika skin and now I'm pretty happy. 

A lot is just research to find things you like, getting demos (essential), and working till you get what you like. You can do some editing but if you have a mesh head, sometimes your editing options are small.   Get demos first,  because what they look like on MP or the store, doesn't always translate to SL on your shape.   Also, shape and skin combinations affect the look.

It may take some time, but stick with it.

Additionally, ask some people in SL how and where they got that look.  Unless they are a complete ass they will most likely tell you.

[Quistess Alpha]

You might want to familiarize yourself with the difference between mesh bodies/heads and shapes, then figure out or get someone to explain to you what BOM is. 10k per hour seems like a lot; don't let anyone rip you off at that price point.

[MandyOsho]

Thanks for your reply Doris. Cost is not an issue. I will spend 5-10,000 L$ for high end avatars/shapes/accessories. Unfortunately, in my experience I haven't had much success asking people questions "in the wild" at places in SL. They either don't remember, or what you really need is details on exactly where they got something plus how to put it all on. That's the other part that I am baffled by now - when I bought the one avatar from one shop, I go to my inventory and open it up and there's 50-60 objects, and there didn't seem to be much if any instructions. It's just gotten to be too much and too complicated.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, MandyOsho said:

Thanks for your reply Doris. Cost is not an issue. I will spend 5-10,000 L$ for high end avatars/shapes/accessories. Unfortunately, in my experience I haven't had much success asking people questions "in the wild" at places in SL. They either don't remember, or what you really need is details on exactly where they got something plus how to put it all on. That's the other part that I am baffled by now - when I bought the one avatar from one shop, I go to my inventory and open it up and there's 50-60 objects, and there didn't seem to be much if any instructions. It's just gotten to be too much and too complicated.

Try this: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/AMI-What-is-she-wearing-HUD-What-is-he-wearing-HUD/19852056

To be honest I think you are underestimating the time it will actually take to help you do this with your unwillingness to do any research or try to understand how things work. There as tons of youtube videos and tutorials on how to put together an avatar right down to the tiny details.  Do you know what you want? Your definition of absolutely beautiful looking female avatars and theirs might be vastly different.  You are not only asking someone to put together a look for you but to take the time to educate you on the best shops and then walk you through how do it step by step with you having no idea what they are talking about. That could take many, many hours.  

It would be nice if someone could just put together an avatar and then hand it to you but it doesn't work like that. 

[MandyOsho]

"You are not only asking someone to put together a look for you but to take the time to educate you on the best shops and then walk you through how do it step by step with you having no idea what they are talking about. That could take many, many hours."

OK Sam. How many hours do you estimate? What would "many, many hours" be? 10? 20? Just trying to get a ballpark idea.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, MandyOsho said:

"You are not only asking someone to put together a look for you but to take the time to educate you on the best shops and then walk you through how do it step by step with you having no idea what they are talking about. That could take many, many hours."

OK Sam. How many hours do you estimate? What would "many, many hours" be? 10? 20? Just trying to get a ballpark idea.

In case no one has mentioned it, this blog will be a good start in understanding terminology.  It's helped quite a few people in the forums and worth a read.

https://virtualbloke.com/tutorials

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

In case no one has mentioned it, this blog will be a good start in understanding terminology.  It's helped quite a few people in the forums and worth a read.

https://virtualbloke.com/tutorials

 

3 hours ago, MandyOsho said:

But I have noticed in a few other discussions that I researched, that whenever someone asks for personal help/teaching like this, there seems to be a lot of people who jump all over the person asking ("you need to learn how to do it yourself" blah blah blah).

 

But she isn't willing to learn HOW to do it. She wants to pay someone to explain it all to her.  I would say maybe post this in the employment section and see if you come up with someone willing to do this.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

11 minutes ago, MandyOsho said:

"You are not only asking someone to put together a look for you but to take the time to educate you on the best shops and then walk you through how do it step by step with you having no idea what they are talking about. That could take many, many hours."

OK Sam. How many hours do you estimate? What would "many, many hours" be? 10? 20? Just trying to get a ballpark idea.

I don't know Mandy. It took me about six months working on and off to get the look that I have and that I've come to like.  I once tried to help a new person buy something from the marketplace and unpack it and set it out on her land and she wasn't willing to even look at tutorials. That took me two hours since she had no clue what I was asking her to do.  I finally got so frustrated that she wasn't willing to put in some work that I just told her that she needed to find someone else to help her.  It wouldn't have mattered if I did it for free or she had paid me 20,000L. It was still frustrating.

[Quistess Alpha]

This and the 'in-world employment' forum are so similar and people often post in both.

I'm not the most versed in the latest and greatest fascion, but if you want to pay me to sit and explain how things work and how to put on XYZ or to interview people who are wearing things you think look attractive I'd be happy to.

[MandyOsho]

3 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

But she isn't willing to learn HOW to do it. She wants to pay someone to explain it all to her.

Oh, I AM willing to learn HOW to do it, IF someone can actually explain to me HOW to do it. See there's a fine difference there.

The question becomes, can someone who, like me, used SL extensively all the way thru 2016 figure it out on their own? Or, is it a complex enough process now that even someone with previous experience (you can forget about someone completely new to SL figuring this stuff out, man), needs HELP from someone to figure out how to do it.

I just spent 4 hours reading the suggested virtualbloke tutorials AND trying, with someone trying to help me via text chat, how to create a custom avatar.

Even with someone trying to help with only chatting via text here in private messages - TOTAL DISASTER. Couldn't even get the head to appear on the body I bought.

The "instructions" that come with the products one buys (body, skin, head blah blah blah) are a joke. They don't explain hardly anything. And I reject the notion that there are very detailed youtube videos out there that explain how to do the current BOM stuff related to avatars, down to the last detail.

I looked, and I couldn't find any. I don't think any tutorials like that exist. But I am TOTALLY willing to be proven wrong. You point me at those tutorials that can actually walk me how all this stuff works now and I'll be a happy SL'er.

I really don't want to strike a negative tone here but one would think that this stuff would be better (more user-friendly) after 20 freaking years. Evidently not. 

To close this post, I would just pose the simple question: What kind of software is it, or stated more directly, how "user-friendly" and what is its ease of use is software in which the VERY FIRST THING ONE NEEDS TO DO, customizing one's avatar, is so bizarrely complicated that (I would bet) almost NO ONE who is trying SL for the first time can figure out what to do (beyond using the default chosen avatar)?

Not very user-friendly, it seems to me. And would it be so hard for the actual vendors of the avatar components to come up with even ONE start-to-finish, detailed video showing how to put together an avatar? Seems like that would be a big selling point for them, and do they even care about making money or what? I'm serious. You buy one product, like a body, and open up the folder in your inventory, and there are 40 freaking items staring you in the face. What sequence do you activate them in? Do you do Wear or Add (the person trying to help me was saying that's important) and how do you know which on what? Which one of the 3 gazillion possible sequences through activating in some way, shape or form the dozens of components in the folder do you follow (and where if you get even one of them out of sequence you're stuck?).

It's just crazy to me. Seriously.

[Kathlen Onyx]

This is exactly what I googled.."how to put together an avatar in second life from start to finish" AND this is just the first video I found. I get it's frustrating but you are wanting to have all the information and "how to" as a returning person to SL in a few hours. Knowledge comes with time and experimentation. Even people that have been in SL for 13 years learn something new every day. You may have to be happy with what you can put together until you can gather the information to create the look you want.  It IS complicated but give it time and it will click and won't be as complicated as it seems right at this moment.

You don't have to go with a BOM avatar. I don't have BOM and I'm perfectly happy with my look.

The other option would be just to give up and leave as you stated in your initial post.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[MandyOsho]

Thanks for the suggested vid, Sam, but it doesn't measure up. Watch it very closely, which I did from from 1:36 to 1:49 (along with a default SL avatar in my SL window where I was trying to change my avatar), and you will see that she basically skims thru the process. It is not detailed, step-by-step. She glosses over some things, doesn't even discuss heads, and starts to put a new body on but quickly aborts that demonstration.

Watch it yourself and I think you'll see that if you were actually trying to put together a body, head and skin you probably wouldn't be successful. At least I wasn't.

So with the info in that video, I still am unable, even with my prior SL experience, to get thru configuring/assembling/putting together the 3 things I have purchased thus far:

[LEGACY] Meshbody (f) Special Edition (1.4)               <== BODY

LeLUTKA Lake Head 2.5                                                   <== HEAD

itGirls - Lelutka BOM - Eden DEMOS                               <== SKIN (note I couldn't even figure out how to buy the non-demo of this at itGirls store arrrrghhh)

 

I believe these are the 3 things I need to get started. If I can just get past putting those things together and getting them actually configured then I could begin to dream about how things like hair and clothing work now.

[Kathlen Onyx]

I watched the part that you noted and she explains it very well. Basically you put on the alpha's and then the body parts and then the head. Then you put on a skin and shape.

If you had watched the whole video instead of just the part about the bodies you might understand it more.

Good luck to you...I feel like you are just whining now and I'm done trying to help you. Maybe someone else will come along that has more patience and can help you.  I might make a suggestion that if you do get someone nice enough to help you that you do it in voice and not text. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[MandyOsho]

i understand most of what is in the rest of the video.

The critical parts are in that one section, and she DID NOT complete doing the body nor even talk about putting the head together with it. The bottom line is that it is close, but not as complete info as it needs to be. I tried doing other things with the other person i was messaging with (who was more knowledgeable) and we both together could not get thru the entire process.

Yes, what is actually going to happen is that I am going to pay someone who is really good at this a bundle of lindens just to put together my stupid avatar. Which is totally fine as far as I'm concerned (paying to make that happen) because I frankly have no patience with software that is extremely non user friendly AND on top of that when they can't bother to put out detailed tutorials and one has to amass some type of 6-month learning curve to be able to use it as some kind of intellectual badge of honor.

Not being snippy with you specifically, Sam. Thank you for at least trying to help. But I've been doing software development for 40 years myself and when someone like me can't even figure out how to create a custom avatar for a VR game, it's not a problem with me, it's a problem with that game and the people who design it and the products that go along with it, for not deigning to take the time to create the instructional materials that are needed.

Oh, so why bother? Going back to the other topic, all I want to do is have a place to hang out with and chat with my friends. To do that, I don't think that I should have to expend 6 months of torturous effort trying to learn the gazillion intricacies of a ridiculously arcane process of constructing a darn avatar, for pete's sake. But that's just me.

I can't help thinking how many more people would have used, and continued to use Second Life over the last 20 years as opposed to the (I would bet an EXTREMELY large number of people) who got so fed up with how hard it is to learn/use that they just gave up.

[MandyOsho]

Really simple question. Are we supposed to drag the orange box to our floor and then do an "Open" after buying something? It seems like you used to have to do that everytime and now folders seem to be appearing by magic sometimes...

Whatever. smh lol

Thank you all for spending any time whatsoever on this, I'll now go the "paid support" route

[Quistess Alpha]

the orange box box thing is /so/ stupid. there are at least three or four different ways creators have implemented boxes, some of which you rez others that you wear, some which automatically give you the stuff others which you need to touch to get the stuff. there's no standardization.

[Rowan Amore]

Body..+body/feet/hands/HUD.  Nothing else

Head..+ head/eyes/teeth/HUD.  Nothing else

Find BOM activation on each HUD although I think Lelutka is already active.  Turn on..

Wear demo body skin 

Add demo head tattoo

Most items to unpack, you simple add as if it were an attachment.  Some auto unpack, others you may have to touch the onscreen HUD.

[MandyOsho]

so i dont use any of the shape or physics items in the body folder?

[MandyOsho]

and what about the eraser items? one person told me not to use them, another to use the body one. I think.

You see the frustration.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, MandyOsho said:

so i dont use any of the shape or physics items in the body folder?

everything else in the folder is optional.  Just work on the basics which is all you need right now.  You're confusing yourself needlessly trying to figure 38547584 different things out at once.  Just get the body and head set up.  Play with it.  Try some of the other things.  Physics make your boobs bounce.  Unnecessary.  

You don't need any erasers or alphas IF you turn on the BOM on head and body.   3 items each for body and head is all you really need.  Most skins are now made BOM.  Alphas/erasers are for applier skins which is even more complicated.

 

[MandyOsho]

I know I don't really need to keep this discussion going necessarily (esp. if I get some paid help, which I have a couple of candidates for that).

But I feel that this - the usability, user-friendliness and intuitiveness, but most important of all, the lack of detailed tutorials - is an important topic in general. It always has been an issue with SL and it amazes me that it still is. So I think it is instructive for everyone (hello, McFly - I mean, SL and body/head/skin vendors) to see how much people struggle with this stuff.

So I'm going to turn off the shape item, even though that didn't really seem to do anything, and for everyone's edification, here is where I have gotten in terms of doing my custom avatar. And at which point I am pretty much stuck without getting some more detailed realtime help.

ps. Hmm, apparently there's no way to take OFF the shape I activated now? And, was there supposed to be a HUD option in the items of the body folder? I thought there was one earlier, and now there isn't one... lol

 

[Rowan Amore]

the orange box that says Upscale and you have to wear a shape.  Only one shape at a time just like always.  you can replace it with another

[MandyOsho]

So I'm supposed to wear (click on the "Add" button actually) the

[BODY] Legacy (f) (1.4)

item and the 

[EDIT] Legacy (f) (1.2) (Upscaled)

item? Which, if that is true, how exactly was I supposed to know that (seeing as how it's not in any instructions anywhere in this universe - just being snippy about that in general, not with you Rowan)

Along with the 

[SHAPE] Legacy (f) "Starter Shape"

item (I was unclear your directions on the shape)?

 

[Rowan Amore]

yes, the upscale is the hud for the body

I'm inworld at the moment if you have any questions