Proposal - FAST MESH

[NaomiLocket]

Just now, FinnfinnLost said:

Zeroing out LODs is, something that should remain, even if strict tri limits on custom ones would be enforced. There's a performance advantage to be had when not rendering small things at long or even medium distance at all.

Already done. They even zero out entire objects at distance. ahem.

[FinnfinnLost]

1 minute ago, NaomiLocket said:

Already done. They even zero out entire objects at distance. ahem.

I am well aware. Putting tri limits to zero seems to be a very fun thing for many creators to do.

I was merely pointing out that, while it would be great to force artists to make at least somewhat acceptable LODs, the possibility of zeroing out must remain.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

@NaomiLocketOne might wonder why you so vehemently defend garbage content...

[NaomiLocket]

1 hour ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

@NaomiLocketOne might wonder why you so vehemently defend garbage content...

one might wonder why so called garbage content is vehemently described that, when it isn't physically the problem it is made out to be in every place on the grid. It just isn't how it works. But seeing as "someone making money" keeps coming up, it is probably self evident the real reason why this keeps happening even though the grid hasn't fallen over from a booggyman.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 hours ago, NaomiLocket said:

Again, if it wasn't for people with TPV's challenging the status quo, you wouldn't have advanced lighting and better materials in all 18 years. They did, and so you do.

Put's on her TPV dev hat.

I look forward to your better code based solutions to all that ails Second Life, feel free to swing by the TPV meetings so you can share your progress and exciting ideas about how the world should work. I'm sure we will be merging your contributions in no time and everyone will be buying you a cake.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, FinnfinnLost said:

I am well aware. Putting tri limits to zero seems to be a very fun thing for many creators to do.

I was merely pointing out that, while it would be great to force artists to make at least somewhat acceptable LODs, the possibility of zeroing out must remain.

Zeroing out is done to manipulate Li accounting. It has nothing to do with making better or more efficient content.

If anything, it exacerbates the pressure on users to raise their detail settings to prevent items popping in and out of existence at close range.

Zeroing out allows creators to cheese content in for a lower Li and makes it the users problem.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, NaomiLocket said:

the grid hasn't fallen over from a booggyman.

The grid is specifically engineered to avoid dealing with the content itself as much as possible if you haven't noticed. It has been Linden Lab's policy to make sure that, when possible, new features would have little to no performance hit on the region server.

Just because regions floats at a happy 45FPS doesn't mean the user experience hasn't been getting progressively worse. Thankfully, the current team seem to understand now that what users experience is just as important as the health of the region simulator.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I look forward to your better code based solutions to all that ails Second Life, feel free to swing by the TPV meetings so you can share your progress and exciting ideas about how the world should work. I'm sure we will be merging your contributions in no time and everyone will be buying you a cake.

And you'll never see them because they don't want a solution, they just don't want anything to change.

[FinnfinnLost]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Zeroing out is done to manipulate Li accounting. It has nothing to do with making better or more efficient content.

If anything, it exacerbates the pressure on users to raise their detail settings to prevent items popping in and out of existence at close range.

Zeroing out allows creators to cheese content in for a lower Li and makes it the users problem.

Yes, but it CAN be used to make more efficient content. What if a creator realizes that a small object isn't recognizable at longer distances regardless of quality, even at very high resolutions? In that case, deciding to not render it at all might be the better option.

I'll concede that whatever performance advantage is there is probably not worth the LI exploits that would happen.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, FinnfinnLost said:

Yes, but it CAN be used to make more efficient content. What if a creator realizes that a small object isn't recognizable at longer distances regardless of quality, even at very high resolutions? In that case, deciding to not render it at all might be the better option.

That's not the creators choice to make. The creator has no control or influence over the render distance or on-screen scale. Creators who do this are forcing their use case for the object AND viewer settings on other users.

That should be entirely decided by the viewer based on local conditions and the users settings.

 

[FinnfinnLost]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's not the creators choice to make. The creator has no control or influence over the render distance or on-screen scale. Creators who do this are forcing their use case for the object AND viewer settings on other users.

That should be entirely decided by the viewer based on local conditions and the users settings.

 

Granted. Can't quite shed the developer's perspective. I'll try harder from now on.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 4/7/2021 at 1:33 PM, FinnfinnLost said:

I am well aware. Putting tri limits to zero seems to be a very fun thing for many creators to do.

I was merely pointing out that, while it would be great to force artists to make at least somewhat acceptable LODs, the possibility of zeroing out must remain.

Thing is zeroing isn't truly "zero" it is 1 triangle per unique material.

You are declaring a mesh per material no matter the triangle count, and as far as your GPU is concerned, opening that context has an incompressible time cost where 1-50 triangles is virtually going to take the same time to render.

If you're gonna pay for that context switch no matter what, you might aswel put something in it.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Kyrah Abattoir