Firestorm Camera Crash

[kianagru]

Ever since I've updated Firestorm to the latest version- my camera hasn't been working properly. When I change my graphics to Ultra and attempt to take a photo, Firestorm crashes. However, it does this when the photo image is at a certain size. Prior to updating Firestorm, I was able to take pictures on Ultra at an image size of 6144 x 3155. Now I cannot. At most, the highest I can take it at is 5450 x 2799, and that has had a devastating effect on the photo quality. Now when I try to take a picture, the photo pop up window will appear- however, the picture does not render and is instead blank (as shown in the picture attached below). A loading sign will appear (the screen will freeze), and after a few minutes it will say the system has crashed (see image below which says "bugsplat"). I have tried uninstalling the updated version and going back to the older version, however, despite going back to the older version, this issue still occurs. Is there a way to fix this? Do any of you might know why this is happening? I have submitted a ticket to Linden Labs and was told to submit one to Firestorm as it is a third party server (which I have done a couple of days ago- but haven't recieved a response yet) so I just thought I could ask here to see if anyone knows what the issue might be. 

 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

13 minutes ago, kianagru said:

Ever since I've updated Firestorm to the latest version- my camera hasn't been working properly. When I change my graphics to Ultra and attempt to take a photo, Firestorm crashes. However, it does this when the photo image is at a certain size. Prior to updating Firestorm, I was able to take pictures on Ultra at an image size of 6144 x 3155. Now I cannot. At most, the highest I can take it at is 5450 x 2799, and that has had a devastating effect on the photo quality. Now when I try to take a picture, the photo pop up window will appear- however, the picture does not render and is instead blank (as shown in the picture attached below). A loading sign will appear (the screen will freeze), and after a few minutes it will say the system has crashed (see image below which says "bugsplat"). I have tried uninstalling the updated version and going back to the older version, however, despite going back to the older version, this issue still occurs. Is there a way to fix this? Do any of you might know why this is happening? I have submitted a ticket to Linden Labs and was told to submit one to Firestorm as it is a third party server (which I have done a couple of days ago- but haven't recieved a response yet) so I just thought I could ask here to see if anyone knows what the issue might be. 

 

Firestorm suggested a clean install if issue arise, did you do a clean install?

[kianagru]

1 minute ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Firestorm suggested a clean install if issue arise, did you do a clean install?

I think I did? I'm not sure though. I'm pretty sure I uninstalled the older version first before I installed the new one (if this is what you were referring to)- but perhaps I didn't do that and is the reason why this issue has occured?

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

2 minutes ago, kianagru said:

I think I did? I'm not sure though. I'm pretty sure I uninstalled the older version first before I installed the new one (if this is what you were referring to)- but perhaps I didn't do that and is the reason why this issue has occured?

This can explain. You need to delete all cache files as well.

 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install

[kianagru]

56 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

This can explain. You need to delete all cache files as well.

 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install

Ooh okay, thank you so much. I will try this out in a bit!

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, kianagru said:

Ooh okay, thank you so much. I will try this out in a bit!

Typically "these days" we don't have to do a clean install which is a great thing.  I am wondering if you tried to take a photo using the Linden viewer.  IF you can reproduce the same issue on the Linden viewer then you can put in a ticket for help. That's one plus. If there is no issue with the Linden viewer then most likely it is a FS issue.  Did you read the release notes on the latest FS viewer? There is a texture cache setting that is confusing folks and making things difficult so if you didn't change that -- it could be the issue.  Going back to the old version of FS and still having the same issue sounds worrisome though UNLESS you made new restore settings and tried to use those on the older version. I can see how that could mess things up.

Those are my only thoughts. I haven't heard anyone else having this exact issue but I also don't know anyone that takes screenshots at that resolution :D.   

 

[kianagru]

2 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

This can explain. You need to delete all cache files as well.

 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install

Hmm I tried it but it still doesn't work. I think doing the clean install didn't do much since my settings were already messed up. Thank you for your input though! I will continue to figure out.

[kianagru]

4 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Typically "these days" we don't have to do a clean install which is a great thing.  I am wondering if you tried to take a photo using the Linden viewer.  IF you can reproduce the same issue on the Linden viewer then you can put in a ticket for help. That's one plus. If there is no issue with the Linden viewer then most likely it is a FS issue.  Did you read the release notes on the latest FS viewer? There is a texture cache setting that is confusing folks and making things difficult so if you didn't change that -- it could be the issue.  Going back to the old version of FS and still having the same issue sounds worrisome though UNLESS you made new restore settings and tried to use those on the older version. I can see how that could mess things up.

Those are my only thoughts. I haven't heard anyone else having this exact issue but I also don't know anyone that takes screenshots at that resolution :D.   

 

Thank you for your response, it means a lot to me. I am relatively new to Second Life (I've only really been on it actively for a few months despite creating an account about a year ago) and was very clumsy when it came to updating the FS viewer. I didn't know I could run into such issues and therefore unfortunately didn't read any release notes and quickly proceeded to install the newer version. I am at fault for that. Regarding the texture chache issue, I'm not sure what that is or how to change it- but I will definitely check it out. I haven't tried the SL viewer yet (I will try that), however, I have tried taking photos in Black Dragon and the same issue occurs. I am beginning to think that it has something to do with my settings/cache/data. I had no idea the backup & save / restore data was even possible on SL, so I didn't make any new restore settings. I simply uninstalled the newer version (when I realized the camera had an issue) and installed the older one- then tried to take a picture and it didn't work. I have tried doing a clean install- I'm not sure if I did it properly, however- I'm not sure if it did much since my data seems to be already messed up. I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes sense- I'm still quite confused about this whole thing and this issue has brought up so many new things that I was unaware of regarding SL and its functions. 

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, kianagru said:

Hmm I tried it but it still doesn't work. I think doing the clean install didn't do much since my settings were already messed up. Thank you for your input though! I will continue to figure out.

I'd try turning down the ration on your pics.  4000x3000 should give you a quality picture.

[kianagru]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

I'd try turning down the ration on your pics.  4000x3000 should give you a quality picture.

Yes! It seems that a smaller ration does work, and when taken, the image quality looks almost the same (as what I used to take it at). However, when I post the picture on Instagram- the quality is terrible (partially because Instagram tends to degrade an image's quality). The reason why I'm not letting it slide so easily is because I know my computer is capable of taking 6144 x 3155 pictures, it's just that now for some reason it cannot, so it's been bugging me. 

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, kianagru said:

Yes! It seems that a smaller ration does work, and when taken, the image quality looks almost the same (as what I used to take it at). However, when I post the picture on Instagram- the quality is terrible (partially because Instagram tends to degrade an image's quality). The reason why I'm not letting it slide so easily is because I know my computer is capable of taking 6144 x 3155 pictures, it's just that now for some reason it cannot, so it's been bugging me. 

Yes, my computer will take them higher as well but as you've found out, it tends to either freeze the viewer or crashes.  You just need to find the right ratio for you.  Although, I do believe, as I've read elsewhere on the forums, SL pics are viewed at 4:3?

Someone may come along with more info on that.  I don't post to Instagram nor look at pics there so I have no idea about their quality.  Flickr allows a larger size posted there and it's where a lot of people post.

[kianagru]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

Yes, my computer will take them higher as well but as you've found out, it tends to either freeze the viewer or crashes.  You just need to find the right ratio for you.  Although, I do believe, as I've read elsewhere on the forums, SL pics are viewed at 4:3?

Someone may come along with more info on that.  I don't post to Instagram nor look at pics there so I have no idea about their quality.  Flickr allows a larger size posted there and it's where a lot of people post.

Before the update I was able to take them at that size without crashing or freezing, it was the perfect ratio for me. But now I am unable to- as you mentioned, my computer freezes and crashes. I'm trying to figure out why this is the case. I think it might have something to do with how I installed the newer updated version. And regarding SL pics being viewed at 4:3, that's something I've never heard of before, but if that's the case then I guess that makes things a little more simpler. Perhaps I won't have to be as concerned about the quality of my picture. I do post on flickr as well, and I do know that there is a big SL community there, but I mostly post on Instagram.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

1 hour ago, kianagru said:

Hmm I tried it but it still doesn't work. I think doing the clean install didn't do much since my settings were already messed up. Thank you for your input though! I will continue to figure out.

a clean install would reset all your settings... and you start from scratch. So no matter how messed up they were, it would not matter. You should not have the same settings. If you have another viewer installed you need to delete the cache in that one to. But I would highly suggest joining the firestorm support group in world for more help..

If you are retaining your previous settings you have not done a clean install correctly.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Tarina Sewell

[Chic Aeon]

So much said since "I" said something LOL.   

 

So, if you have the same issue in Black Dragon then it looks like it isn't a VIEWER issue.  

 

EDIT: I am reading the post above mine that wasn't there when I started typing this LONG ago.  Aside from the hassle of doing it all there isn't any reason NOT to do a clean install. I am not sure that one group of settings from a viewer would influence another viewer. I have never seen that happen or heard about it here, but I am not that techie so maybe someone that know more can explain how that is.  

 

IF you are running Win10 (I have pro but don't think it matters too much) it COULD be a timing thing that really has nothing to DO with the viewer.   I had some weird update (I have mine on automatic and they do it in the background and don't bother me -- since "resistance is futile") and some new problematic features appeared recently once again -- ones I didn't want and can't get rid of. I have had Microsoft change many settings while fiddling around supposedly making Windows better for me.  And those changes were not logged in the computer's update log. Go figure.   This is now a regular occurrence and so like with SL inventory loss I just sigh and move on.   I don't KNOW that is what happened, I can only say it has happened to me several times with one being about three days ago. 

 

If you go to the Firestorm page to download, then you will notice there are release notes  on the home page each time the viewer is updated. IMPORTANT TO READ THOSE as so many people found out this latest update.  There is also a link to Inara's blog with further explanations on what has been changed and things YOU may need to do (several this time).  I don't think that is going to help your problem, just a general bit of info on updating.  There are also links to how to do a clean install (but again that is typically not needed any longer).

 

So if you rule out a viewer issue (the Blackdragon crash thing) and assume that you didn't do anything unusual to cause the change AND set your texture cache back up to 2048 from 512 (that is in the release notes and Inara's blog)  -- you are kind of left with the Win10 issue -- unless of course you aren't on Win10 . 

 

Have you tried uploading an old (6144 or whatever) taken photo to instagram to see if it is STILL CLEAR?  Fairly often online services dial back the clarity so save on bandwidth and that could be the issue. Again, nothing to do about that either. 

 

So far as the 4 to 3 ratio that is for profile pictures and what you use if you run Firestorm. Those same 4 to 3 photos will not necessarily look correct to people in other viewers or when viewed in a web profile.  (I haven't looked into this in ages but that is how it was for many years anyway).

 

That's all I've got and I wish you well. I know how frustrating things can be when YOU didn't do anything and still get stuck with the issues.  

 

Good luck. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[kianagru]

15 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

a clean install would reset all your settings... and you start from scratch. So no matter how messed up they were, it would not matter. You should not have the same settings. If you have another viewer installed you need to delete the cache in that one to. But I would highly suggest joining the firestorm support group in world for more help..

If you are retaining your previous settings you have not done a clean install correctly.

 

 

Alrighty. I guess I did it incorrectly. I will try again- and I will join the in world support group for futher assistance. 

[kianagru]

18 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

So much said since "I" said something LOL.   

 

So, if you have the same issue in Black Dragon then it looks like it isn't a VIEWER issue.  

 

EDIT: I am reading the post above mine that wasn't there when I started typing this LONG ago.  Aside from the hassle of doing it all there isn't any reason NOT to do a clean install. I am not sure that one group of settings from a viewer would influence another viewer. I have never seen that happen or heard about it here, but I am not that techie so maybe someone that know more can explain how that is.  

 

IF you are running Win10 (I have pro but don't think it matters too much) it COULD be a timing thing that really has nothing to DO with the viewer.   I had some weird update (I have mine on automatic and they do it in the background and don't bother me -- since "resistance is futile") and some new problematic features appeared recently once again -- ones I didn't want and can't get rid of. I have had Microsoft change many settings while fiddling around supposedly making Windows better for me.  And those changes were not logged in the computer's update log. Go figure.   This is now a regular occurrence and so like with SL inventory loss I just sigh and move on.   I don't KNOW that is what happened, I can only say it has happened to me several times with one being about three days ago. 

 

If you go to the Firestorm page to download, then you will notice there are release notes  on the home page each time the viewer is updated. IMPORTANT TO READ THOSE as so many people found out this latest update.  There is also a link to Inara's blog with further explanations on what has been changed and things YOU may need to do (several this time).  I don't think that is going to help your problem, just a general bit of info on updating.  There are also links to how to do a clean install (but again that is typically not needed any longer).

 

So if you rule out a viewer issue (the Blackdragon crash thing) and assume that you didn't do anything unusual to cause the change AND set your texture cache back up to 2048 from 512 (that is in the release notes and Inara's blog)  -- you are kind of left with the Win10 issue -- unless of course you aren't on Win10 . 

 

Have you tried uploading an old (6144 or whatever) taken photo to instagram to see if it is STILL CLEAR?  Fairly often online services dial back the clarity so save on bandwidth and that could be the issue. Again, nothing to do about that either. 

 

So far as the 4 to 3 ratio that is for profile pictures and what you use if you run Firestorm. Those same 4 to 3 photos will not necessarily look correct to people in other viewers or when viewed in a web profile.  (I haven't looked into this in ages but that is how it was for many years anyway).

 

That's all I've got and I wish you well. I know how frustrating things can be when YOU didn't do anything and still get stuck with the issues.  

 

Good luck. 

I am going to sleep now, but I will make sure to respond to your questions and input tomorrow!

[nanaoyuriko]

1. Bugsplat have "View Report Details" button, that probably would explain cause to tech experts here?

2. Most probable cause (my non expert opinion): You are running out of VRAM. Older versions reserved max 2048Mb, newest version - like Black Dragon - have option for automatic VRAM assignment settings with more advanced options. Now probably main viewer window uses more VRAM for textures, leaving less to snap shot rendering - then failing.

[kianagru]

24 minutes ago, nanaoyuriko said:

1. Bugsplat have "View Report Details" button, that probably would explain cause to tech experts here?

2. Most probable cause (my non expert opinion): You are running out of VRAM. Older versions reserved max 2048Mb, newest version - like Black Dragon - have option for automatic VRAM assignment settings with more advanced options. Now probably main viewer window uses more VRAM for textures, leaving less to snap shot rendering - then failing.

I am not a techie so I have no idea what VRAM is, but thank you for letting me know! I'll do some more research on it.

[MoiraKathleen]

52 minutes ago, kianagru said:

I am not a techie so I have no idea what VRAM is, but thank you for letting me know! I'll do some more research on it.

One thing you should check, because it was set too low for some people in the new installation of Firestorm, is the Viewer Texture Memory Buffer setting.  This is what Chic was alluding to in one of her responses to you, I think, and what nanaoyuriko is referencing in her post above.  Inara Pey mentions it (and some new related settings) in her blog post Firestorm 6.4.12 the EEP and More Release

I'm attaching a screen print of that section of the blog, and I'd try setting the Viewer Texture Memory Buffer slider at 2048 - if it is not already set there (generally all the way to the right, depending on your PC's graphics capabilities).  I'm not familiar with the other new settings to suggest using them.  This may not be related to your issue, or it may be the cause - either way, it's worth looking into. 

from Inara's blog post:

Edited December 30, 2020 by MoiraKathleen
fixed a name that was incorrect

[kianagru]

5 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

One thing you should check, because it was set too low for some people in the new installation of Firestorm, is the Viewer Texture Memory Buffer setting.  This is what Chic was alluding to in one of her responses to you, I think, and what Kianagru is referencing in her post above.  Inara Pey mentions it (and some new related settings) in her blog post Firestorm 6.4.12 the EEP and More Release

I'm attaching a screen print of that section of the blog, and I'd try setting the Viewer Texture Memory Buffer slider at 2048 - if it is not already set there (generally all the way to the right, depending on your PC's graphics capabilities).  I'm not familiar with the other new settings to suggest using them.  This may not be related to your issue, or it may be the cause - either way, it's worth looking into. 

from Inara's blog post:

Oooh okay, right now "Anisotropic Filtering" and"Enable OpenGL Vertext Buffer Object" isn't selected, and my "Enable Texture Memory" is greyed out. Perhaps this is why my camera isn't working? I'll have to try it out later today to see if it will make a difference once I click on those boxes, but I'm a little busy at the moment. Thank you so much though- I will definitely try this out to see if this is causing the issue!

 

[NiranV Dean]

Crashing on snapshots higher than 4k resolution is quite "normal". 4K is assumed a safe size that practically anyone can take without fear of crashing. Anything higher than that has a risk of crashing, increasing with the complexity of the scene, enabled graphics features and GPU overusage. Keep in mind that taking a picture at these crazy resolutions is putting a lot of stress on the GPU and the GPU (depending on how powerful it is) can only do so much before it will time out or error and crash. This is simply a thing you cannot prevent, you can just make it "safer" with varying degrees of success. The easiest way to crash is obviously taking a snapshot at the highest available resolution with high graphic settings and scene that is already stressing your hardware way too much.

I'm unsure whether the likelyhood of crashing is linked to the VRAM usage but it would make sense to some degree as VRAM is needed to render the image. Again this is not confirmed since a more complex scene automatically also means more VRAM usage so its hard to tell these apart without making some artificial tests.

I also doubt that taking pictures at a marginally smaller resolution (from full 6K to just a bit under 6K) is having such a devastating effect on picture quality. You can take pictures at 4K and 6K and when downscaling it at the end you'll only have very very minimal differences given you adjust all other effects appropriately for the resolution change.