Linden Homes Available Again

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:57 PM, Frigga Freidman said:

If you keep tabs on the world map you would be able to deduce exactly what Matthieu has said - there has been steady work on the part of the moles filling in the areas at the periphery of the log home regions. 

Yeah, I can look at the map and see Mole work as well as anyone.

But no one can usefully sit and calculate activity on 90 sims for 24/7. And even if you have the stamina for this, you have no way of knowing how many people in Bellissaria are the alts of mains, i.e. the true number.

Again, only the Lindens have this information.

[Matthieu Quander]

14 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Yeah, I can look at the map and see Mole work as well as anyone.

But no one can usefully sit and calculate activity on 90 sims for 24/7. And even if you have the stamina for this, you have no way of knowing how many people in Bellissaria are the alts of mains, i.e. the true number.

Again, only the Lindens have this information.

No one is watching maps 24/7.  I personally find that a quick glance a couple of times a week at the regions that interest me is adequate to keep up with it.  And who cares how many Linden homes are claimed by alts?  There is nothing illegitimate or nefarious about one RL person having multiple premium SL accounts.  They are all paid for, and get no special advantages.  An account is an account is an account.  If Bill Gates is spending his retirement by creating 25,000 premium accounts, and claiming 90% of all Bellisseria homes, then so be it (I can use hyperbole too).

Again, what is your point?  If you want to know how many RL people there are in SL, or specifically in Bellisseria, not even the Lindens can tell you that.  One RL person may use multiple email accounts, credit cards, and even IP addresses.  Conversely, a single RL household may have multiple people playing in SL using the same email, credit card, and IP address.  Even if it were possible to know how many RL people are spending time in SL, why is that your concern?  

  

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

No one is watching maps 24/7.  I personally find that a quick glance a couple of times a week at the regions that interest me is adequate to keep up with it.  And who cares how many Linden homes are claimed by alts?  There is nothing illegitimate or nefarious about one RL person having multiple premium SL accounts.  They are all paid for, and get no special advantages.  An account is an account is an account.  If Bill Gates is spending his retirement by creating 25,000 premium accounts, and claiming 90% of all Bellisseria homes, then so be it (I can use hyperbole too).

Again, what is your point?  If you want to know how many RL people there are in SL, or specifically in Bellisseria, not even the Lindens can tell you that.  One RL person may use multiple email accounts, credit cards, and even IP addresses.  Conversely, a single RL household may have multiple people playing in SL using the same email, credit card, and IP address.  Even if it were possible to know how many RL people are spending time in SL, why is that your concern?  

  

My, you're cantankerous! And it's all out of proportion of my actual comments here.

It's not about caring who has alts or what they do with their alts.

It's about assessing how much actual demand and growth there is here with the Bellisseria program. It's an econmic, not a cultural discussion, however you want to divert it.

And originally there was a simple question: has Bellisseria reached its saturation point, because it is easy now to get a house any time? That remains my impression, trying on multiple alts over several weeks, occasionally abandoning homes along the way. There was never any wai.t

At one time time there were complaints from others about people using alts to rack up a half dozen of the houses when some people could never get them. I gather that's not the issue now.

The idea that there are these multiple people in one house playing LS or multiple students in a dorm is one of the greatest myths of all time. I've heard this over and over in many contexts and it's just not how real life works. It's invoked as the "impossibility" of IP-banning griefers -- although the Lindens can and do IP ban all they like. 

I've asked how many people have anyone in SL they know in RL many times (including in a recent thread) and the answer is: most people are solo in SL with no RL people they have brought in or met in RL once having met in SL. That's the reality. There aren't all these hundreds of overlapping IP addresses, that's silly. There aren't entire families of 6 playing SL

You continue to see this query of mine on the flat plane of issues of people's personal lives or choices or privacy and that's not what my interest is.

My interest is to assess whether the Lindens are GROWING THE REAL POPULATION of SL and INCREASING RETENTION with these houses. And it's not clear they are. Maybe. But if it only churns among the existing population, that's not growth or retention. When one real person bails, their 5 or even 10 alts then bail with them. Who can pay for all those premium accounts?

It's a question only the Lindens really know, both others who are less cantankerous about open and critical discussions of SL's economy might also have educated guesses. These come from activities where they see real people showing up, or anecdotally getting to know neighbours, or watching the green dots. Few people are going to log in multiple alts at the same time in a Linden Home, unless they are using it to play Tiny Empires or test creations -- and I don't a lot of that goes on in the Linden Homes as I seldom see the huge pile-up of Tiny Empire green dots I see on Mainland sims.

Why does it matter whether SL grows or retains customers? Because some people like to assess how well the economy can expect to do in the coming year. 

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

On 12/28/2020 at 5:03 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

So, sorry if I can't wade into that 800+ page thread but here's my experience:

I ditched my Linden home, even though it was on a very prized peninsula, because I was never using it and I don't like the houseboats really. I ditched the Victorian on my alt because I was tired of it after decorating it. I figured there was no need to hang on to them when others are frantically refreshing the page.

So after a week or so I thought, oh, I have the 1024, why don't I see if those stilts are ready and if they are all that. So to my surprise, I immediately was offered the stilt house. Or any other kind of Bellissaria house. I tried and abandoned a few times -- once I was on the water and I couldn't get the house to appear. 

I had no problem instantly getting the Bellissaria newer houses without any refreshing.

Did they finally reach the point where there are "enough" of them? Or?

I landed near a little pond that I made a fishing hole but I know in a few weeks I'll be tired of it and ditch it likely if it turns out there's a shortage. But is there?

Well, your original post and what you just typed out has really evolved over 2 pages.  Bellisseria  is relatively new in the lifespan of SL.  It is very different than the original houses they had available in that it appears to have turned into quite the community for some people.  The availability of these new houses changes on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis.  They are not done building different themes for people to choose from.  There is a plan for at least a few years and a set number of themes that will keep people excited.

It sounds like you ditched your houses because they were not that special to you.  That's a fine reason to let them go.  They are considered starter homes, after all.  Some people enjoy the hunt for the perfect location.  Some people want to try every theme.  Some people just enjoy house hopping.  Some people get a location that they really enjoy and they stay.

It has been pretty easy over the last 3 weeks to find any kind of home you want because they just released a new theme.  Today only 3 of the 6 kinds are available.  When they release the rest of the stilt homes, there will be a surplus for a few weeks while everyone has fun house hopping and trying for something perfect.  After the initial rush of a new shiny some people with multiple alts will keep their favorite houses and let their alts go back to basic for a while until the next theme is released.  People will settle in for a while and homes may become scarce again.  I am sure the Lab has taken this into account in their economic future and will be on the lookout for the next thing to keep people interested in being inworld and in maintaining extra accounts.

I am not sure when in the last 2 pages you changed your post from what was originally posted (have they finally built enough houses? Are people still frantically refreshing the land page?) to the latest thing you posted about all this really being all about the economy of Second Life and extra accounts, but conversations evolve and change.

I play in here with my 4 real life adult children.  I have met people in real life that I originally met inworld.  There will be 5 different people playing on 5 different accounts doing 5 different things from my one IP address because we all live in a multi-generational house.  I am sure I am not the only one.

Premium Alts are paying customers.  Basic accounts are usually paying customers in other ways, but not always.  People that login to Second Life take breaks and alts take breaks.  I am sure that there are people who walk away from SL and take 20 alts with them as well. The SL economy is not solely based on alt creation and dependent who is paying for premium accounts.  Being a business SL would not put all their eggs into one basket and for now they have found a way to bring money in by encouraging people to make some extra premium accounts and increasing enthusiasm.  Sound like pretty good business practice to me.  I am not sure why the total number of unique users matters much if people are willing to pay for multiple accounts.  I also think that Linden Lab WANTS a surplus of homes to advertise to new people who have never been in Second Life.  When each house type is available regularly, it will be less frustrating for new people who may be considering going premium.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Cinnamon Mistwood
ugh, spelling and stuff

[Matthieu Quander]

10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

My, you're cantankerous! And it's all out of proportion of my actual comments here.

It's not about caring who has alts or what they do with their alts.

It's about assessing how much actual demand and growth there is here with the Bellisseria program. It's an econmic, not a cultural discussion, however you want to divert it.

And originally there was a simple question: has Bellisseria reached its saturation point, because it is easy now to get a house any time? That remains my impression, trying on multiple alts over several weeks, occasionally abandoning homes along the way. There was never any wai.t

At one time time there were complaints from others about people using alts to rack up a half dozen of the houses when some people could never get them. I gather that's not the issue now.

The idea that there are these multiple people in one house playing LS or multiple students in a dorm is one of the greatest myths of all time. I've heard this over and over in many contexts and it's just not how real life works. It's invoked as the "impossibility" of IP-banning griefers -- although the Lindens can and do IP ban all they like. 

I've asked how many people have anyone in SL they know in RL many times (including in a recent thread) and the answer is: most people are solo in SL with no RL people they have brought in or met in RL once having met in SL. That's the reality. There aren't all these hundreds of overlapping IP addresses, that's silly. There aren't entire families of 6 playing SL

You continue to see this query of mine on the flat plane of issues of people's personal lives or choices or privacy and that's not what my interest is.

My interest is to assess whether the Lindens are GROWING THE REAL POPULATION of SL and INCREASING RETENTION with these houses. And it's not clear they are. Maybe. But if it only churns among the existing population, that's not growth or retention. When one real person bails, their 5 or even 10 alts then bail with them. Who can pay for all those premium accounts?

It's a question only the Lindens really know, both others who are less cantankerous about open and critical discussions of SL's economy might also have educated guesses. These come from activities where they see real people showing up, or anecdotally getting to know neighbours, or watching the green dots. Few people are going to log in multiple alts at the same time in a Linden Home, unless they are using it to play Tiny Empires or test creations -- and I don't a lot of that goes on in the Linden Homes as I seldom see the huge pile-up of Tiny Empire green dots I see on Mainland sims.

Why does it matter whether SL grows or retains customers? Because some people like to assess how well the economy can expect to do in the coming year. 

 

I can't really improve on Cinnamon Mistwood's response, so I will just add a a couple of things.  

If anything is out of proportion to your actual comments it is because you keep changing your story.  This raises suspicion regarding your true motives. 

You keep repeating that only the Lindens can provide the answers to your questions, yet continue to invite discussion from the general SL userbase, only to dismiss it when it conflicts with your point of view.

In short, Trolls with hidden agendas bring out my cantankerous side.  

 

[Prokofy Neva]

20 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Well, your original post and what you just typed out has really evolved over 2 pages.  Bellisseria  is relatively new in the lifespan of SL.  It is very different than the original houses they had available in that it appears to have turned into quite the community for some people.  The availability of these new houses changes on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis.  They are not done building different themes for people to choose from.  There is a plan for at least a few years and a set number of themes that will keep people excited.

It sounds like you ditched your houses because they were not that special to you.  That's a fine reason to let them go.  They are considered starter homes, after all.  Some people enjoy the hunt for the perfect location.  Some people want to try every theme.  Some people just enjoy house hopping.  Some people get a location that they really enjoy and they stay.

It has been pretty easy over the last 3 weeks to find any kind of home you want because they just released a new theme.  Today only 3 of the 6 kinds are available.  When they release the rest of the stilt homes, there will be a surplus for a few weeks while everyone has fun house hopping and trying for something perfect.  After the initial rush of a new shiny some people with multiple alts will keep their favorite houses and let their alts go back to basic for a while until the next theme is released.  People will settle in for a while and homes may become scarce again.  I am sure the Lab has taken this into account in their economic future and will be on the lookout for the next thing to keep people interested in being inworld and in maintaining extra accounts.

I am not sure when in the last 2 pages you changed your post from what was originally posted (have they finally built enough houses? Are people still frantically refreshing the land page?) to the latest thing you posted about all this really being all about the economy of Second Life and extra accounts, but conversations evolve and change.

I play in here with my 4 real life adult children.  I have met people in real life that I originally met inworld.  There will be 5 different people playing on 5 different accounts doing 5 different things from my one IP address because we all live in a multi-generational house.  I am sure I am not the only one.

Premium Alts are paying customers.  Basic accounts are usually paying customers in other ways, but not always.  People that login to Second Life take breaks and alts take breaks.  I am sure that there are people who walk away from SL and take 20 alts with them as well. The SL economy is not solely based on alt creation and dependent who is paying for premium accounts.  Being a business SL would not put all their eggs into one basket and for now they have found a way to bring money in by encouraging people to make some extra premium accounts and increasing enthusiasm.  Sound like pretty good business practice to me.  I am not sure why the total number of unique users matters much if people are willing to pay for multiple accounts.  I also think that Linden Lab WANTS a surplus of homes to advertise to new people who have never been in Second Life.  When each house type is available regularly, it will be less frustrating for new people who may be considering going premium.

I introduced my son and two of his friends to SL and they were on the teen grid for a time. They built up a business and what they called a "Sewer Safari" game and one of them even scripted realistic basketball. Then their little hearts were broken because the Lindens allowed the camping script. That meant that people could pay others to sit on their lots to drive up their traffic. Then those who had organically obtained high traffic with good content and serve were shafted. So that was a shame. Even so, my son put SL on his resume and credits it with giving him more knowledge and experience than college in business and today he runs his own media business with his wife.

But this isn't the norm. Most people do NOT have their friends or family on SL.

There are more people with alts than you might realize. The Lindens used to limit accounts to 5; I'm not sure if they still have that limit. 

How can the Lindens advertise new homes to new people when it's their user base just getting them on their alts?

 

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

I can't really improve on Cinnamon Mistwood's response, so I will just add a a couple of things.  

If anything is out of proportion to your actual comments it is because you keep changing your story.  This raises suspicion regarding your true motives. 

You keep repeating that only the Lindens can provide the answers to your questions, yet continue to invite discussion from the general SL userbase, only to dismiss it when it conflicts with your point of view.

In short, Trolls with hidden agendas bring out my cantankerous side.  

 

I realize it's hard to think about these things.

1. Only the Lindens have the true data.

2. But in the absence of the Lindens sharing this data *as they used to* (that's how we knew they had reached 100,000 premiums at one point, then it slacked off), it's more than fine to ask multiple people to post their anecdotal experiences. That's how you can build a picture.

It's not a literalist A/B or 0/1 concept at work here like computer code.

It's about how you build up a picture in the absence of hard data, and that's more than fine.

Seeking to find out whether SL is really expanding is normal, natural and necessary activity, and not "trolling" and not a "hidden agenda". What's to hide?! 

There is a regular grid survey by Tyche Shepherd which lets us know that SL has been shrinking -- private islands are ditched even if the Lindens add more Bellisseria homes. 

Thanks to all who added actual information from their actual experience and I hope you will continue to do so. Out of 3 Lindens homes I obtained recently, visiting them each a half dozen times, I never saw a soul. Not on that sim. Not even on 4 or 6 surrounding sims. But there is life generally, and more than on the Mainland.