Anti-Socialist Political Earthquake In the (dis)United Kingdom

[irihapeti]

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Burper Tilling wrote:

It's the volatility of opinion in Britain that's frightening.  Just before the 2010 general election, the Liberal Democrats, who were traditionally the third party in Britain, were actually top in the opinion polls, briefly.  They ended up with 57 seats and went into the coalition government with the Conservatives, who then lacked an overall majority.  That was disastrous for the Lib Dems who have now lost most of their seats - only retaining 8.  And the pro-independence Scottish National Party has swept the board in Scotland despite losing the Scottish independence referendum last year.

 

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is a pretty standard response this for peoples who are a minority in a larger collective, but are geographically able to preserve a distinct identity (culture even) from the majority

vote to stay in the collective (referendum) and then vote seperately for greater representation/autonomy within the larger collective

the USA is probably the best example of this in constitutional formal sense    

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eta

about the LibDems

is pretty much how the electorate treats minor coalition partners when the partner doesnt do enough to distinguish their own identity while serving in a support role to the party of government

[irihapeti]

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ZoeTick wrote:

I realise that the globally dispersed participants of SL's forums are probably as disinterested as I am in British politics, but I thought I would update you so you might appear to be informed next time you venture out into the real world and come across a potential mate who has wasted their university time studying International Relations. If this post is useful, I am happy to accept contributions to the "Don't Vote - It Only Encourages Them" movement.

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a persons contribution to political debate is equal to their contribution at the polling booth. If a person doesnt vote bc they think their vote has no value then their contribution is exactly zero

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the world is run by those who turn up. If the sheeple are the only ones turning up then oh! well for the rest of you

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

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but as this man and his party have hurt my family in serious ways...

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I get a world economic newsletter, and the UK has been tracking faster than the US for pulling out of recession. The UK has managed to achieve lower inflation, lower unemployment, the pound is up, the economy is doing better, all this while staving off the world-wide recession that set back the EU, the US, and a host of other countries.  (in particular in contrast to the EU)...so I'm curious.  How has your family been hurt? 

Even the BBC reports UK economy records fastest growth since 2007:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30999206

[Marigold Devin]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Marigold Devin wrote:

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but as this man and his party have hurt my family in serious ways...

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I get a world economic newsletter, and the UK has been tracking faster than the US for pulling out of recession. The UK has managed to achieve lower inflation, lower unemployment, the pound is up, the economy is doing better, all this while staving off the world-wide recession that set back the EU, the US, and a host of other countries.  (in particular in contrast to the EU)...so I'm curious.  How has your family been hurt? 

Even the BBC reports UK economy records fastest growth since 2007:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30999206

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In brief, budget cuts to welfare spending to pay for the country to look wealthy to other countries (and all the blah certainly does look good on paper), the ever-widening divide between the haves and have nots.

But really, my family's

personal

circumstances are not up for discussion.

Suffice to say, when I was working in the civil service in the early-1980s, earning shedloads of money for doing very little (and not with a clear conscience, which is why I moved out of that workplace), and while all members of my family were working full-time plus, paying into a system that was meant to protect us should we ever have an hour of need (and obviously, all of us think we are invincible, so we never expected to actually have to need to use our welfare rights), I never would have believed that standard of living could have dropped so significantly as it has done these past few years.

The country that the BBC talk about is not one that I and my brother, and people in our current locality actually recognise.

Edited to add:

There are people actually relying on food banks in this country for the first time ever, zero-hours contracts are the latest way employers have of manipulating employees, and the government give not one sh1t, because it makes it look like there are fewer people out of work in this country, hence another sign we are out of recession.

Crime figures are definitely up (which has affected my family personally), as a knock-on effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZoeTick]

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irihapeti wrote:

a persons contribution to political debate is equal to their contribution at the polling booth.

 

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That's fine by me.

As long as everybody who votes for criminals also gets put in jail.

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irihapeti wrote:

If a person doesnt vote bc they think their vote has no value then their contribution is exactly zero

 

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If a person doesn't vote because he is abstaining from voting for those who he does not want to support, then his contribution is significantly greater than those who vote because they haven't got a clue what is going on and believe all the lies the politicians tell them.

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irihapeti wrote:

the world is run by those who turn up.

 

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That's a load of naive b***bleep***ollocks.

The world is run by those with money, influence and power.

They employ people to "turn up".

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

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In brief, budget cuts to welfare spending to pay for the country to look wealthy to other countries (and all the blah certainly does look good on paper), the ever-widening divide between the haves and have nots.

But really, my family's personal circumstances are not up for discussion.

Suffice to say, when I was working in the civil service in the early-1980s, earning shedloads of money for doing very little (and not with a clear conscience, which is why I moved out of that workplace), and while all members of my family were working full-time plus, paying into a system that was meant to protect us should we ever have an hour of need (and obviously, all of us think we are invincible, so we never expected to actually have to need to use our welfare rights), I never would have believed that standard of living could have dropped so significantly as it has done these past few years.

The country that the BBC talk about is not one that I and my brother, and people in our current locality actually recognise.

Edited to add:

There are people actually relying on food banks in this country for the first time ever, zero-hours contracts are the latest way employers have of manipulating employees, and the government give not one sh1t, because it makes it look like there are fewer people out of work in this country, hence another sign we are out of recession.

Crime figures are definitely up (which has affected my family personally), as a knock-on effect.

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I see.   How does one person "having", take away from another?  A gap is irrelevant.

 

You brought up your family, I just followed up with a question.  (I don't blame you for not wanting to discuss your family, btw)

 

In brief, you made shedloads of money...but now, you're not happy.   And, of course, the BBC reports about a fictional country.  (Unless, you happened to agree with it, then it's spot on?)

 

Information on food banks, and the reason why they're not a bad sign:

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8946991/why-its-wrong-to-be-ashamed-of-our-food-banks/

 

In the US, very few people have work "contracts".  I personally have never had one.   Also, I spend less on food per week, then most everyone I know.  (I'm frugal)  I've consistently spent less per week, even when raising my two sons, then the people going to a food banks.

 

From this 2014 article:   http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/24/crime-rate-england-wales-falls-lowest-level-33-years

 

"The crime rate in England and Wales has fallen by an unexpected 15% to an estimated 7.5m offences, its lowest level since the official survey began 33 years ago."

 

So, Marigold, I think that reality is a matter of interpretation. 

 

BTW, to be clear, I like you.  Please don't view this as a fight waiting to happen.  I'm responding to your post, as it caught my attention.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

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Crime figures are definitely up (which has affected my family personally), as a knock-on effect.

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Oh, there is this:   Rapes up 29%.  (overall crime down though)   Suspected due to victims reporting more often.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29642455

 

 

Ah, shucks, it's BBC.  Nevermind!  ; )

 

 

[irihapeti]

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ZoeTick wrote:

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The world is run by those with money, influence and power.

They employ people to "turn up".

 

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where in the history of the human race has this ever been not true? Where in the present is this not true? Where in the future will this ever not be true?

most people have a limited range of skills which they are pretty good at. They seek employment of those skills to generate a surplus for themselves. To use the surplus to obtain products and services that they need, which they do not generate themself

 

[ZoeTick]

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irihapeti wrote:

most people have a limited range of skills which they are pretty good at. They seek employment of those skills to generate a surplus for themselves. To use the surplus to obtain products and services that they need, which they do not generate themself

 

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Hey, you just reinvented Marxism!

[Marigold Devin]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Marigold Devin wrote:

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In brief, budget cuts to welfare spending to pay for the country to look wealthy to other countries (and all the blah certainly does look good on paper), the ever-widening divide between the haves and have nots.

But really, my family's

personal

circumstances are not up for discussion.

Suffice to say, when I was working in the civil service in the early-1980s, earning shedloads of money for doing very little (and not with a clear conscience, which is why I moved out of that workplace), and while all members of my family were working full-time plus, paying into a system that was meant to protect us should we ever have an hour of need (and obviously, all of us think we are invincible, so we never expected to actually have to need to use our welfare rights), I never would have believed that standard of living could have dropped so significantly as it has done these past few years.

The country that the BBC talk about is not one that I and my brother, and people in our current locality actually recognise.

Edited to add:

There are people actually relying on food banks in this country for the first time ever, zero-hours contracts are the latest way employers have of manipulating employees, and the government give not one sh1t, because it makes it look like there are fewer people out of work in this country, hence another sign we are out of recession.

Crime figures are definitely up (which has affected my family personally), as a knock-on effect.

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I see.   How does one person "having", take away from another?  A gap is irrelevant.

 

You brought up your family, I just followed up with a question.  (I don't blame you for not wanting to discuss your family, btw)

 

In brief, you made shedloads of money...but now, you're not happy.   And, of course, the BBC reports about a

 fictional

country.  (Unless, you happened to agree with it, then it's spot on?)

 

Information on food banks, and the reason why they're not a bad sign:

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8946991/why-its-wrong-to-be-ashamed-of-our-food-banks/

 

In the US, very few people have work "contracts".  I personally have never had one.   Also, I spend less on food per week, then most everyone I know.  (I'm frugal)  I've consistently spent less per week, even when raising my two sons, then the people going to a food banks.

 

From this 2014 article:  

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/24/crime-rate-england-wales-falls-lowest-level-33-years

 

"The crime rate in England and Wales has fallen by an unexpected 15% to an estimated 7.5m offences, its lowest level since the official survey began 33 years ago."

 

So, Marigold, I think that reality is a matter of interpretation. 

 

BTW, to be clear, I like you.  Please don't view this as a fight waiting to happen.  I'm responding to your post, as it caught my attention.

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Celestiall, I know you're not spoiling for a fight with me.  I know you just want me to clarify my opinions and reasonings.

Unfortunately I cannot, in this moment.  And in this moment I feel like I should not have even joined this thread. A knee jerk response to the election result that it was, I should have silently seethed out here in real life, and remained SL only on Second Life forums.

I think that reality is a matter of personal circumstances rather than of interpretation. I think that unless you walk around in someone else's shoes for a while, it really is impossible to know what their truth is. I think that as much as I wished for the (unfortunate use of word alert coming up) assassination of our prime minister, if he even knew who us plebeians were that he was hurting with his welfare cuts, he would still want us off the statistics one way or another.

I think.

But if my current flare up of eczema is indicative of my current state of mind, what I think really is not worthy of any more discussion, certainly not here on the forums.

I need to go lighter.

But Celestiall, if I do find something more intelligent or intelligible to say, I will seek you out and try to reward you with an answer that you deserve, as you have put a lot of thought into your post's composition, and I have read the links with interest, particularly the one about food banks. It made me feel very very weary though.

 

[Marigold Devin]

I made shedloads of money ... for a 22 year old. When a close friend murdered his girlfriend, and then himself, it made me take stock of my life, and it was my decision to live it for a while, not to be stuck like a battery hen, albeit one that had the promise of a good pension at the end of their working life, so I took my short-term service award and ran, and had a bl00dy good few years. Always, though, I worked hard, and was often happier working long hours for little money when the job gave me particular satisfaction.

Now I have had my wings clipped, because blood is thicker than water, and I am almost the only surviving relative in the family, certainly the only one left who can take care of my brother, who had been working in the same job for 22 years (probably longer than most of these government ministers will endure), but who unfortunately suffered a massive stroke.  As it feels like the health services, welfare state in general, have abandoned him in his hour of need, it would be particularly cruel and heartless for me to do the same.

And inevitably, the lowest common denominator is what dictates where you sit in society, ie if you mix with criminals, you are tarred with the same brush, and because we have to rely on welfare benefits currently, and in the current climate in the UK (which cannot be measured by statistics on the BBC or in the Spectator or other intelligent periodicals) the haves, who have never experienced what we are currently going through, assume we are just sponging off the state, and there is much malignment. Benefits have been cut, although needs remain the same, and the help that used to be available - which my brother was certainly very reluctant to call for - is not even available any longer. Cuts to spending on essential things as hospitals, rehabilitation units, respite care, money reallocated to things like Defense and expenses to already overpaid (yes, ok, in my opinion - they might be well worth the money) civil servants, etc., means there are many people in the same situation. But it does not make it right. And because disabled/vulnerable people are less likely to put up a fight, it is seen to be a case of the current government picking on easy targets.

I just want fairness. It should not be too much to ask.  I understand that Cameron has got re-elected, its because of his services to businesses, and that looks tremendously good on paper to all outside of the UK, he looks - the UK looks - like a total success story. But I fear workhouses - or worse - will be reintroduced.

All of this is far too personal. And even if my own circumstances were to improve, I would be mithered (very concerned) still about other's in a similar situation, now I am aware of them, which I was not while I was in a well-paid job earning shed-loads of money for doing as little as that lot in government do currently.

And its still not an intelligent enough answer. Sorry Celestiall. :catfrustrated:

[Marigold Devin]

 

Taken from latest news in my home area

http://www.southyorkshire-pcc.gov.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News.aspx

Note: " ... may suggest an under-reporting".

Again, what's printed isn't necessarily the whole picture.

(Edited to add the screenshot I forgot to put in earlier - whupps!)

[irihapeti]

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ZoeTick wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

most people have a limited range of skills which they are pretty good at. They seek employment of those skills to generate a surplus for themselves. To use the surplus to obtain products and services that they need, which they do not generate themself

 

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Hey, you just reinvented Marxism!

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and the post-industrialst society, and the industrialist society, and the pre-industrialist society. and the marketplace

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

But Celestiall, if I do find something more intelligent or intelligible to say, I will seek you out

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I'm always up for a good chat inworld, and I even use voice without cursing! 

(and proper English, albeit .American ; )

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

And its still not an intelligent enough answer. Sorry Celestiall. :catfrustrated:

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Hmm, emotional isn't necessarily unintelligent.   

 

 

I live in the rust belt here in the US.  We have dreadfully high unemployment, and in the town where I am *currently, there are murders, armed robbery, drug rings, ...and a bit further south in my state an AIDS epidemic that warranted the CDC coming in.   How bad things are....it's a bit like time.  It's relative.

 

*I'm here as my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in Feb 2014, and I had to come and help my father care for her.  She had been his caretaker, as he had cancer in 2012, now has an ileostomy, he's elderly, and unable to do much of what he used to be able to do.  My mother died in Oct 2014, so I'm still here, at their house, in a former children's bedroom upstairs, my days divided between sorting out legal papers, doing physical care, house care, yard care, and attempting to fill the huge hole left by my mother, who was a force of nature and kept the extended family and beyond going.

 

But, I don't fear, as that's not my nature.  Nor, do I look to government for the answer, as again, that's not my nature. 

[Venus Petrov]

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ZoeTick wrote

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In other news . . .

has anybody seen Larry recently?

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Larry is alive and well posting on the feed and occasionally inworld. I chatted with him inworld a few days ago and he said nothing about hiding out from the authorities.

[Hoshi Kenin]

Wow. Golly gosh.  In effect, cutting through your cloud cuckoo land waffle, you are stating you are managing to cope with the grim realities, and furthermore...your particular grim  realities are much worse than anyone elses...ergo...Marigold et al are whiners, and need to jus' roll the old sleeves up and git on, like you have - magically - seemed to do.

Either you are a wizard floating on cloud 9 oblivious to the suffering the financial terrorism of western governments are causing or simply clueless. 

Consider if you will.

First, people 'having' certainly does affect the the have nots.  Particularly with the current system in the USA and UK, which rewards the people who caused a recession far bigger and longer than the great depression of the early 20th century, whilst making the poor pay and suffer for it.  If you cannot see that fundamental fact, you are in trouble.

If I have food and you are starving, no matter your remarkable powers of enjoying life to the full with a smile and a wink, trust me...you will still be starving at the end of the day.  When the wealth of the already obscenely rich 5% doubles under the government for the corporate elite, whilst the poor are left with decreasing standards of living, you can rest assured the now staggering gap is a very dangerous thing

Two, governments are supposed to have the answer.   Indeed, that is what they tell us, day after day, and promise us prior to election.   They are certainly not there to look after the top 5% as Camer-goon and his henchmen have already done, whilst preparing to take with undisguised relish the last crust of bread from the 'lazy' poor, who they tell us via the BBC and the corporate controlled tabloids are living lives of luxury in their sink estates around this miserable country that I now hate with a vengeance.

Finally, the BBC is a state broadcaster that warrants comparison with any cold war soviet broadcaster.  Consider this, living as you do in a republic;  according to the BBC, anyone living outside the UK would think the whole population adores the largest benefit scroungers on the planet aka the royal family.  Indeed, during the sickening 'celebrations' of dear old Liz and her inbred brood living for her 60 years of freeloading, one would think not a single republican lived in the UK.

  The BBC bias and propaganda is beyond belief.   Whilst small media news outlets and blogs reported the riots in London and Cardiff after the elction, there was nothing on the BBC.   Not to mention the fact most people in the UK have to pay for the BBC to simply watch television or face prosecution for not paying the stasi-like enforced tv tax, which the BBC calls a 'tv licence'.  

Watch RT...The Keiser Report.  It's available on youtube.  That we are at the point where a russian media outlet, despite the fact it isn't perfect,  gives better all-round coverage of world events than the mainstream western media says everything.

 

[DejaHo]

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Venus Petrov wrote:

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ZoeTick wrote

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In other news . . .

has anybody seen Larry recently?

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Larry is alive and well posting on the feed and occasionally inworld. I chatted with him inworld a few days ago and he said nothing about hiding out from the authorities.

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I'm sure Zoe was just askin'.   It ain't like it's an impossible scenerio.

 

[Venus Petrov]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Venus Petrov wrote:

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ZoeTick wrote

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In other news . . .

has anybody seen Larry recently?

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Larry is alive and well posting on the feed and occasionally inworld. I chatted with him inworld a few days ago and he said nothing about hiding out from the authorities.

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I'm sure Zoe was just askin'.   It ain't like it's an impossible scenerio.

 

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Yeah, soz I'm just sayin'.  It ain't like I was shutting him down. :matte-motes-bored:

[DejaHo]

Oh, my dear friend Larry.  . .

We all **bleep** up.

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

Wow. Golly gosh.  In effect, cutting through your cloud cuckoo land waffle, you are stating

you

are managing to cope with the grim realities, and furthermore...your particular grim  realities are much worse than anyone elses...ergo...Marigold et al are whiners, and need to jus' roll the old sleeves up and git on, like you have - magically - seemed to do.

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Do you have a reading comprehension problem?   Because, I never said anything about my reality being worse than other people's, nor that other people are whiners.   BTW, Marigold is the person who started with the "grim reality" nonsense.   (I was just giving back to Marigold what she started, as she felt it necessary to lay out her woes)   She also wants to blame an individual, that has nothing to do with her personal situation, (wishes them could be killed), instead of just, ...you know..."life happens".     

 

As for me, I know **bleep** happens, and I deal with it. 

 

 

 

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

Either you are a wizard floating on cloud 9 oblivious to the suffering the financial terrorism of western governments are causing or simply clueless. 

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Yes.  You guessed.  I'm a wizard.   ; )

 

 

 

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

First, people 'having' certainly does affect the the have nots.  Particularly with the current system in the USA and UK, which rewards the people who caused a recession far bigger and longer than the great depression of the early 20th century, whilst making the poor pay and suffer for it.  If you cannot see that fundamental fact, you are in trouble.

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Nope.   One person "having" doesn't take away from another.   As for the "people" who caused the recession, that's such a diffuse category, that it can't be named by individuals.  Also, the "poor" don't pay for it, as they're already poor.  If anything those who "have" pay, as they're the one's with the money.   If you cannot see that fact, then you're in trouble. 

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

If I have food and you are starving, no matter your remarkable powers of enjoying life to the full with a smile and a wink, trust me...you will still be starving at the end of the day.  When the wealth of the already obscenely rich 5% doubles under the government for the corporate elite, whilst the poor are left with decreasing standards of living, you can rest assured the now staggering gap is a very dangerous thing

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Oh, please.  Here in the US people aren't starving. Hell, our poor people are FAT.   We have a generous welfare system that gives "food stamps" that let people buy more food in a week than I've ever bought.  The UK welfare system is more pervasive then the US's, so if anything...again, people aren't starving.  

 

A gap is meaningless.  Person A getting wealthier, had nothing to do with Person B.   As for decreasing standards of living, that's just not true.  Health and wealth is increasing world wide.  In all countries.  We now have the highest standard of living in the history of the world, for more people than in any time before.  This trend will continue.

 

 

 

 

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

Two, governments

are

supposed to have the answer.   Indeed, that is what they tell us, day after day, and promise us prior to election.   They are certainly not there to look after the top 5% as Camer-goon and his henchmen have already done, whilst preparing to take with undisguised relish the last crust of bread from the 'lazy' poor, who they tell us via the BBC and the corporate controlled tabloids are living lives of luxury in their sink estates around this miserable country that I now hate with a vengeance.

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If you're gullible enough to believe that government will have the answer, then I can see your problem.  Such drama and jealousy in your post!  Good grief, does the average UK person wallow in this classism BS all the time?  

 

Look:   Government isn't the answer.    I'd think you've have figured that out by now.   

 

 If people erroneously believe that not saving money for a rainy day (as the generous government will take care of them), and when the rainy day arrives...they're without an umbrella....then that's their wake up call.  

 

Also, just because some other people already have an umbrella, isn't relevant. 

 

 

 

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

 

Finally, the BBC is a state broadcaster that warrants comparison with any cold war soviet broadcaster.  Consider this, living as you do in a republic;  according to the BBC, anyone living outside the UK would think the whole population adores the largest benefit scroungers on the planet aka the royal family.  Indeed, during the sickening 'celebrations' of dear old Liz and her inbred brood living for her 60 years of freeloading, one would think not a single republican lived in the UK.

  The BBC bias and propaganda is beyond belief.   Whilst small media news outlets and blogs reported the riots in London and Cardiff after the elction, there was nothing on the BBC.   Not to mention the fact most people in the UK have to pay for the BBC to simply watch television or face prosecution for not paying the stasi-like enforced tv tax, which the BBC calls a 'tv licence'.  

Watch RT...The Keiser Report.  It's available on youtube.  That we are at the point where a russian media outlet, despite the fact it isn't perfect,  gives better all-round coverage of world events than the mainstream western media says everything.

 

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I don't watch BBC, as I don't own a TV.  I do read...a lot!  I only posted the BBC link, as I was debating someone from the UK.  But, I can post data sources from all over.   Basically, the UK has weathered the recession well, and come out strong, and inflation is down in the UK, (housing prices falling, etc), unemployment is down, the pound is strong.    If you're not aware of these facts, then you've either not being paying attention, or choose to cherry pick your information. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

Here's interesting data.   It's what people all over the world think about the future, wealth, the "gap", and their own opportunities.  What's telling is that in rich industrial nations (and yes, the UK is one of those) the people are gloomy and can't see the opportunities.  But, in emerging economies, the people can see opportunities.  

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/10/09/emerging-and-developing-economies-much-more-optimistic-than-rich-countries-about-the-future/


Here in the US we have immigrants that within one generation own businesses, have acquired wealth, and have children out performing the local's children in the schools.   Why do you think this happens?   It's because the immigrants see opportunity, and are willing to make sacrifices, that our native born US population can't see, and aren't willing to do.   This trend happens ALL over the US. 

Yes, even during our recession, this same trend was ongoing. 

Perhaps, those who believe the government fairy will provide, don't see the opportunities.  Maybe it's a personality thing.  
We live in the best of times!  With unprecedented opportunity to break away from the gatekeepers of old, with entrepreneurship possible for anyone with a web connection.  Kids are doing startups, people in rural African villages developing apps, etc.   But, if people see the world in the old way, that of "haves" and "have nots", and do not realize that they have the ability to control their own destiny, then they will be left behind.   It's that simple.

[irihapeti]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

 

Perhaps, those who believe the government fairy will provide, don't see the opportunities.  Maybe it's a personality thing.  

We live in the best of times!  With unprecedented opportunity to break away from the gatekeepers of old, with entrepreneurship possible for anyone with a web connection.  Kids are doing startups, people in rural African villages developing apps, etc.   But, if people see the world in the old way, that of "haves" and "have nots", and do not realize that they have the ability to control their own destiny, then they will be left behind.   It's that simple.

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the number of USA people incorporated self-employed (own company) and unincorporated self-employed (trading on own account) has fallen from 9.6% of the total workforce in 1967 to 7.0% today

this have nothing to do with fairies, or the government. Is the market in action

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was projected in 2010 by US Dept of Labor that there will be a 14% growth in available US business opportunities between 2010 and 2020. That this growth will be largely driven by the healthcare industry. The internets will grow for sure but is only the 4th equal growth area with construction. Projections which seems to be borne out

a aging population (them with savings to spend on healthcare) are the No.1 customer for the next decade or so. Am not sure how many of them are going to be buying phone apps, when deciding which healthcare provider/service they actually do need to, and will, spend their money on

this is the market in action also

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if anybody young is reading this then dont bother with a computer degree. Want to make money in the USA then get a healtcare degree. Like doctor or nurse. All them old people are going to need you way more by their bedside than some person overseas or wherever making apps and virtual stuffs for 50L a pop 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

 

Perhaps, those who believe the government fairy will provide, don't see the opportunities.  Maybe it's a personality thing.  

We live in the best of times!  With unprecedented opportunity to break away from the gatekeepers of old, with entrepreneurship possible for anyone with a web connection.  Kids are doing startups, people in rural African villages developing apps, etc.   But, if people see the world in the old way, that of "haves" and "have nots", and do not realize that they have the ability to control their own destiny, then they will be left behind.   It's that simple.

---

 

the number of USA people incorporated self-employed (own company) and unincorporated self-employed (trading on own account) has fallen from 9.6% of the total workforce in 1967 to 7.0% today

this have nothing to do with fairies, or the government. Is the market in action

was projected in 2010 by US Dept of Labor that there will be a 14% growth in available US business opportunities between 2010 and 2020. That this growth will be largely driven by the healthcare industry. The internets will grow for sure but is only the 4th equal growth area with construction. Projections which seems to be borne out

a aging population (them with savings to spend on healthcare) are the No.1 customer for the next decade or so. Am not sure how many of them are going to be buying phone apps, when deciding which healthcare provider/service they actually do need to, and will, spend their money on

this is the market in action also

if anybody young is reading this then dont bother with a computer degree. Want to make money in the USA then get a healtcare degree. Like doctor or nurse. All them old people are going to need you way more by their bedside than some person overseas or wherever making apps and virtual stuffs for 50L a pop 

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Official "Incorporated" companies aren't a true indicator of the self-employed.  People don't have to declare themselves a company or incorporated.   Most of these aren't going to be reflected in incorporated stats. 

 

But, at least you understand the market.   (the fairies I mentioned are the mythos that government is the cause, and engine that drives things, even individual situations.  Many think that their personal situation is a direct result of the "government", and not their own choices.  Gov being the father, mother, and all powerful entity to provide & protect...but when it doesn't...."string 'em up".    It's this false worship of the gov as the provider in their lives, which then leaves people unhappy that their lives aren't what they wished for.  Much like "god", the gov becomes a answer for thier problems.   But, when the gov fails to provide, instead of curtailing it's power, they want to give it more power.   Then the cycle repeats)

 

Err, I never mentioned a "computer degree"  LOL.   That has little to do with people's ability to use the internet for business.   

 

I do happen to work in healthcare.   ; )     But, I also run a family business, and yes we use the internet.  No, we're not "incorporated".    (just to add an anecdotal story ; ) 

[irihapeti]

i did mention unincorporated. People who just trade in their own name with unlimited liability. Most self-employed people do this. They dont bother with a limited liability company structure. Mostly bc their customers, bankers, etc arent interested in engaging a skilled worker who wants to limit their liability re workmanship, viability, etc 

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about degrees. yes. I just mention to any young people who might read this. That they be better off getting a healthcare qual rather than a computer qual. Healthcare is location-based which cant be as easily outsourced

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governments are necessary

they are able to do stuff which no other organisation can

like pour liquidity into the banking system when the private sector gets it wrong

subsidise agriculture is another thing that governments necessarily do. Is not a economic matter this. Is a national security matter

for example: USA, France, Britain, Germany, etc subsidise agricultural production and impose import quota and tariffs on other countries, so that USA, France, etc continue to have arable lands producing foodstuffs

Is defo cheaper for them to buy say dairy products from us (NZ) than it is to produce their own. But... no country is ever going to put themself into a position where they are overly dependent on another for something as basic as food, no matter how fraternal we might be with each other

is a massive distortion of world markets and free trade are these ag. subsidies, but they are necessary if countries do wish to retain the sovereignty of their peoples

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another massive distortion was the bailout of the automotive industry in the USA. From a purist capitalist market pov then it would have been better for those companies to go to the wall and the capital tied up in their resources, patents, etc released to go into more productive areas. Same the billions the State poured into them

But again is a national interest question this. How important is automotive science to the national interest over the longterm? Very important was the decision

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decisions like these are just not capable of being decided by the market or by any private company or individual. Mostly bc only a State actor has the capacity to back up the decision