Auto-return immediate if object rezzed by script?

[Nika Talaj]

Two or three weeks ago, a rezzer (that I scripted) which has been in place for months began behaving differently..  It rezzes one object  when a sign is touched.  The object is rezzed in a different group than the land, and the land has an auto-return of 10 minutes.  The rezzed object is not temp-rez.

Recently, the rezzed objects are auto-returned within 30 seconds; often immediately upon rez; but they used to return in 10 minutes, as you would expect.   It does not matter whether the rezzed objects have scripts or not.  The parcel (and sim)  have plenty of prims. Land options for Build, Scripts and Object Entry are all set to Everyone.

The land owner says she has changed nothing, and the about land menu shows auto-return set to 10 minutes.  A box rezzed by an avatar which is set to a different group than the land is returned in 10 minutes; the same box rezzed by a script is returned almost immediately.

Has auto-return timeout handling changed recently?

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

the timing did change. either you found a bug in the new setup or there is something unusual about your rezzer.

there was a new limit added so that objects could not defeat autoreturn so easily by rezzing replacement objects. now, the rezzed objects inherit the remainder of the rezzer's autoreturn time. if your rezzing object is not supposed to be subject to autoreturn, you should not be affected, so that is where there is a possibility of a bug.

the change was made with http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.09.21.281328 "The simulator now blocks certain scripted rezzers from defeating parcel object return"

this was later modified to exclude objects rezzed from vehicles and attachments in http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.11.19.284082 "Objects which are rezzed by sat-upon or attached scripts no longer inherit the temp-on-rez or auto-return timer of the parent object"

 

thinknig more, are you using the linked prims set to different groups hack? maybe autoreturn still ages those linked prims in different groups, even if the root keeps them rezzed?

[Nika Talaj]

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

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thinknig more, are you using the linked prims set to different groups hack? maybe autoreturn still ages those linked prims in different groups, even if the root keeps them rezzed?

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Yes, I am!  Thanks for the info about the change, that appears to be the problem.  If I link two prims in this sim, the root set to group and the child not, wait 10 minutes, and unlink, the child disappears immediately.

People have been using this trick for a long time.  It seems to me that it would not defeat the intent of this anti-griefing change for script-rezzed objects to inherit the autoreturn timeout of the object rather than the individual prim, what do you think?

I wasn't aware that linked prims HAD individual autoreturn timers!  Can't think what use that serves.  But thank you.

[Darien Caldwell]

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Nika Talaj wrote:

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

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thinknig more, are you using the linked prims set to different groups hack? maybe autoreturn still ages those linked prims in different groups, even if the root keeps them rezzed?

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Yes, I am!  Thanks for the info about the change, that appears to be the problem.  If I link two prims in this sim, the root set to group and the child not, wait 10 minutes, and unlink, the child disappears immediately.

People have been using this trick for a long time.  It seems to me that it would not defeat the intent of this anti-griefing change for script-rezzed objects to inherit the autoreturn timeout of the object rather than the individual prim, what do you think?

I wasn't aware that linked prims HAD individual autoreturn timers!  Can't think what use that serves.  But thank you.

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The best solution is to put your rezzer in the land's group. Since you know the owner, and the object is allowed to be there (I assume), there shouldn't be a problem doing that.

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

I haven't measured this, but the simulator probably compares rez time to current, in favor of separate timers for each prim, that would match some immediate autoreturn surprises after moving things across parcels, even from before the new rez changes.

it would seem harmless to check the root prim's autoreturn status for these abbreviated timers, instead of the rezzing prim, probably no worse than the vehicle excption. it can't hurt to ask in JIRA.

[Nika Talaj]

The rezzer (root prim) IS in the land's group.,  A child prim, containing the rez object script, is in another group, so the rezzed object (a tour transport) is set to the other group when rezzed.  This is because the tour goes through a no-script sim.  The transport could of course take controls in order to go through the sim, but being in that sim's land group is more reliable, since the tour stops and riders can get off and walk around, then get back on.

[Nika Talaj]

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

I haven't measured this, but the simulator probably compares rez time to current, in favor of separate timers for each prim, that would match some immediate autoreturn surprises after moving things across parcels, even from before the new rez changes.

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I didn't quite understand this part of your post, but I did do a test which is perhaps relevant. 

I made a small parcel, set it to the land group with a two minute autoreturn timer, and put down one of my rezzers on it.  I set it up to rez the tour vehicle into an adjacent parcel which also has autoreturn set, and waited five minutes.  I rezzed an object, and it DID NOT immediately disappear ... as if it did not inherit the expired autoreturn timeout from the rezzer prim.

 

If I instead rez the object into the small parcel where the rezzer is, it disappears immediately, of course.

 

I think this behavior might be explained by your comment ... could you clarify what you meant?

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

oh, i was describing a simpler case: for example, rez on a parcel with 30 minute return, wait 6 minutes, then slide the object over to a 5 minute parcels, and the object was returned right away. if that was a feature or bug, who knows, but it was annoying. if a feature, it would plug another big autoreturn loophole.

[Nika Talaj]

I went ahead and created a bug reporting this problem (text below).  It has been closed - the resolution is that the ability to create a linkset with prims set to different groups (which has been the case in SL at least since I joined in 2006) is actually a bug.  SURPRISE!  They did not mention any intention to "fix" that, though - they simply said that the bug I reported is expected behavior, given that such a linkset can be created.

Maestro was very courteous, but it is discouraging.  After I started to script this llSetKeyFramedMotion ferry system, I put it off for a year, fearing that it would turn into a depressing, defeating mess.  The system is up and running and very cool, but the PAIN ... I hope I've learned my lesson this time!  Thank God I decided not to offer this system for sale, I really want nothing to do with LSL for a good long time.

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BUG - 5037

The change in 13.09.21.281328 that causes objects rezzed via script to inherit the auto-return timeout of the rezzer actually has the rezzed object inherit the timeout of the rez PRIM, not object. Therefore, rezzers which rez objects in a different group than the land group (via a child prim set to a different group) no longer work; the rezzed object disappears within a few seconds once the rezzer has been in place for longer than the parcel auto-return timeout. Would it be possible for the rezzed object to inherit the timeout of the rezzer (i.e. root prim), instead of the prim which contains the rez script?

Other information

The ability to rez objects in a different group than the land group has been around for many years. It may not have been an intentional feature of the platform, but many many scripters have made use of it, for various legitimate purposes.

RESOLUTION:

Hi Nika, thanks for the report. We talked this over, and agreed that this is expected behavior - parcel return timers are a per-linkset property, not a per-prim property. Object group should also be a per-linkset property - it's a bug that you can temporarily create a linkset with mixed active groups.

[Qie Niangao]

I handle a somewhat similar problem by rezzing from a tiny parcel that's set to the group of the no-entry land through which the vehicle will eventually need to pass. Although it rezzes from that parcel, it rezzes onto my regular group-owned land which allows non-group rezzing, has spare prims to burn, and an auto-return interval long enough for the vehicle to get on its way.

From the description I'm not at all sure your problem can be addressed by my simple approach, but I'm not entirely sure it can't, either.