An answer from renderosity.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

reply from this:

I purchase a LOT of textures, brushes, actions and effects from renderocity and I use them in creations I make in SL. I do NOT resell the textures, or other things in SL. I need to know is this is ok. Otherwise, I have no use for renderocity. Please let me know before I make anymore purchases or not , is this allowed?

 

Hello Sabrina,

 

I hope you can try to understand that it is not Renderosity’s license that has changed, but SecondLife’s. Our license has never allowed the transfer of the licensing rights you have purchased. Second Life’s TOS has changed so that you now have to agree that anything uploaded there can be transferred to them at their sole discretion to use however they want…..even to sell.

 

So, the problem isn’t about whether the individual item you purchased can be extracted or not. If you make clothing and use a 2d texture, brush or whatever from Renderosity, SecondLife now has the right to use that and re-sell, give away, use for marketing or however they want. That is a transfer of license that we do not allow. Even worse, should they decide to sell or give away, they are then transferring that license to even more users, and the original artist has little to no recourse to protect their copyrights because of SecondLife’s TOS.

 

If you make items 100% on your own, not using anyone’s textures, or meshes, etc, then you can upload at Second Life. Renderosity believes in protecting artists’ rights, and we are not the ones being heavy handed here, it is Second Life claiming rights on items that are not theirs. Brushes and Styles are a little different, since they are usually used in such a way (incorporated into a new work that can be seen as unique). Please keep in mind, the content uploaded previous to their Terms of Service change in August is supposed to be free from them trying to claim the rights on it. Therefore, your previous content should all be ok. It’s just a matter of going forward.

 

Best Regards,

Jenifer Carey

Renderosity Copyright Agent

www.renderosity.com

 

 

Thanks,

Jenifer

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Even IF I did everything my own, LL can swoop my stuff up and pass it on to whoever they like? There has to be some kind of reason LL is doing this. Why are they being silent on it! I am out ALOT of money now over this.

 

People saying.. I'm gunna leave SL over this is not going to amount to anything if people dont actually do it. But most of you make enough money that you won't leave. We will take it like little bytches and wait for the next ax to fall.

 

 ~~ Edit

I have never resold textures brushes styles or anythign purchased form Renderocity. I do use the textures into clothing I design, much like going to Jo anns ansd buying a bolt of fabric, finding or trims... And the usage if it is completly within the terms of the content I buy.

Some actually address making clothing with the textures and its ok. I can quote those here if you like.

 

 

 

[Tiffy Vella]

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If you make items 100% on your own, not using anyone’s textures, or meshes, etc, then you can upload at Second Life. Renderosity believes in protecting artists’ rights, and we are not the ones being heavy handed here, it is Second Life claiming rights on items that are not theirs.

Brushes and Styles are a little different, since they are usually used in such a way (incorporated into a new work that can be seen as unique

). Please keep in mind, the content uploaded previous to their Terms of Service change in August is supposed to be free from them trying to claim the rights on it. Therefore, your previous content should all be ok. It’s just a matter of going forward.

 

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The part I have bolded suggests that if a brush is incorporated into a new unique texture, it is still ok to upload. Perhaps you could check if the same could apply to the textures you have bought from renderosity in the past, ie...if the texture is multiplied between rendered layers or otherwise significantly manipulated. Just suggesting as it sounds like you have invested in textures which sadly you can no longer use. So it's worth checking.

I did ask CG Textures this specifically, but unfortunately they cannot allow this. Even if the texture is designed for one particular mesh item and has no value as a freestanding product.

[Chic Aeon]

What I find particularly interesting in the letter is the assertion from Renderosity that items prior to the TOS in August are "free" from this conflict.

Now, "I" originally believed what Renderocity says, that OLDER items are not at risk. However -- and it is a biggie -- I have heard MANY  MANY RL lawyers and reports from SL folks who have talked to their lawyers stating that the current TOS covers ALL works including old. Indeed this was reiterated at the Rose Theater meeting last weekend.

So I am wondering if Renderocity hired a lawyer that didn't agree with all these others (a nice thought) or if they just READ the TOS themselves and like so many of us assumed (ASSUMED) that it was only content uploaded after the TOS changed.

If in fact they find out that it IS everything, then what can they do about it? They, like the rest of us are hostages to the new TOS.

So thanks for posting that letter. It was certainly good to know about.

[Marcus Hancroft]

Yes, Chic.  I listened to the recording of the meeting as I was unable to attend and when asked the very question about items uploaded BEFORE or AFTER the new TOS took effect, the lawyers stated..."Everything in your inventory.  There is nothing stating, in the new TOS, only items uploaded after the effective date are subject to these new terms." 

Linden Lab would have one heck of a time checking every asset on the servers to see when it was uploaded, and so I highly doubt they have the manpower or time to go through the millions of assets on their servers.

No...it's everything since the beginning of time.  Everything in everybody's inventories.  

I'm having a hard time understanding how using a brush to create a texture for upload to SL would be a problem for Renderosity.  

[Catherine Cotton]

These sites have an obligation to protect their artists. I salute them for doing so. I also wouldn't do business with them if it were any other way. They are protecting their bottom line as well. I also salute LL but with just one finger these days lol.

[Darrius Gothly]

(This is a Mass Reply since I have a little something to say to almost everyone that has contributed so far)

@Tarina - Renderosity has from the beginning been very clear on their user license and how it affects the use of their products. Linden Lab requires that everything you upload must be wholly owned by the person uploading. I say requires because of this paragraph in Section 2.3:

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Linden Lab ToS, Section 2.3, Paragraph 2:

"In connection with Content you upload, publish, or submit to any part of the Service, you affirm, represent, and warrant that you own or have all necessary Intellectual Property Rights, licenses, consents, and permissions to use and authorize Linden Lab and users of Second Life to

use the Content in the manner contemplated by the Service and these Terms of Service.

"

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Pay attention to the last phrase of that paragraph. The rest of Section 2.3 states that Linden Lab may use the stuff you upload in many different ways. It states that they assume (as in take and use) the Rights to the stuff you upload. Renderosity is simply saying in their reply that their products cannot be used in this way. The artists and creators that contribute to their products specifically do not allow the Rights to be assumed in this manner. Therefore you cannot upload them or use them on ANY of the Linden Lab platforms .. because you cannot give them the rights contemplated in the Service and the Terms of Service.

@Chic regarding Old vs. New - I originally believed that LL's grab for the rights of our uploaded content (as stated by the new ToS) would only cover that content uploaded after we agreed to the new ToS. After all, old stuff was uploaded with the belief that the only rights needed were those required to use the content on the specific Service (for example, to operate Second Life). I heard the same thing as Marcus did .. the new ToS now covers all of our uploaded inventory. Therefore even the old stuff must now be in compliance with the new Terms. I find it impossible to understand how Linden Lab expects us to bring our inventory into compliance. Nevertheless they have demanded that we do.

@Marcus - *waves* Howdy Marcus. There is a date and time recorded for each asset uploaded to the Second Life servers that shows when it was added to the system. Therefore it's very easy for Linden Lab to filter out content that was uploaded or created prior to or after a specific date. The real problem comes when making a copy of something uploaded.

For example, if I upload a Texture (call it "DG's fancy starfield") then it will have a Creation Date (essentially the upload date) of when I first uploaded it. However if I then right-click on it and choose "Copy" then right-click on a folder and choose "Paste" then the copy created will most likely have a Creation Date of the date/time I Pasted the Texture and created a copy.

I say "most likely" because I am not sure exactly how they have programmed a copy/paste operation. Perhaps an SL Viewer developer can answer that question, but it might take someone knowledgable in how the Sim Server and Asset Server work.

@Renderosity - I totally get why you are doing what you are doing. I further salute your steadfast position on this issue. Linden Lab has made a claim for the Usage Rights to User-Created and User-Owned (and subsequently uploaded) Intellectual Property (IP) that is clearly impossible for users to grant. Especially that content uploaded prior to the date/time the user agreed to the new ToS. Content uploaded prior to that date was intended solely for use under the logical and reasonable rights stated in the prior version of the ToS. However there is just no way people can go back and grant the further Rights required by Linden Lab's new ToS. It is a legal impasse that will run headlong into legal action very soon.

I do not know the income your (Renderosity's) business generates. But if I was you, I would be in my lawyer's office getting the wheels turning to take Linden Lab to court. Their new ToS clearly grabs Rights to all of your IP previously uploaded onto their servers .. and that's a clear breach of your current (and unchanged) Terms of Service/Use.

[Chelsea Malibu]

I am afraid we will be seeing a lot of this.  LL did something very short sighted and overreaching.  This is what I predicted on my first post regarding the new TOS in how it effects "third party" rights.  This is just the beginning of this mess they created with what in my opinion, is a very poorly crafted TOS. 

Time will tell but we can only continue to put pressure on LL, not upload new content and hope that they will change.  If not, we have other worlds we can go to.

[Chic Aeon]

Logically and MORALLY I am with you on the New versus Old deal. I mean, how could it be any other way? Well it is it seems - (insert head shaking here).

 

In my favorite scenario  this month  -- assuming we don't go down the "sell or close" roads -- I see LL looking at the Marketplace. Querying out for the products that generate the most income (not necessarily the most popular as those would likely be free things). Then query out products that are NOT mesh. That leaves the OPTION of looking at the dates items were made. There are plenty of high dollar, best selling items that were made before the TOS date and I am guessing that they would want all those in their knapsack -- for whatever the undisclosed  "project" that is in the works (just a scenario remember? :matte-motes-confused:)

There would be nothing of mine in that filtered sub-set. I have never actually been worried about MY stuff. It has always been the unfairness and slap in the face attitude that got my dander up.

 

[Catherine Cotton]

I think it is now Linden Labs duty to go after those who have openly been selling unmodified textures from well known texture sites.

Let me be excessively clear here;  The people who are in SL selling commercially protected textures they bought, screen captured, "save image as", off the web and claimed to be their original work.  Textures they did not modify in anyway what so ever other than to slap their logo on them, put them in a box for resale and/or illegally claim ownership of.

More so since LL does clearly not own the rights of 3rd party products it's also in their best interest to remove them before they get sued.

LL drew a line in the sand,  now its their turn to stop harboring illegal content.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

IMO the new TOS is ludicrous. However I can not see LL reversing that, ever. For a user driven platform they're surprisingly hostile and unhelpful towards said users.

Renderosity does exactly what I would expect from anyone seeing that TOS.

On the other hand, just about any other platform out there has similar TOS. Including, for example. Facebook. Everything you upload there effectively becomes FB's property.