How to steal other people work sell it at marketplace and walk away with 5 stars reviews

[PaperB]

I logged in today to take a look at new releases and under mesh full perm, i found a lot of skins with the original picture and even name and brand advertised under another store, familiar (at least to a dozen) to mesh creators for sealing copied products. I know for a fact this person has recieved a couple of DCMA and ims by a lot of people by now. I can recognice every item on that store to belong to other creators, but even if you dont know much about templates it doesnt matter because they put it easy on you by keeping the actual original name of the product and creator. Got to a point on beeing so obcoius and in your face stealing that i just cannot but to amaze that people. actually buy from here and actualy rate some stuff with 5 stars

[Pamela Galli]

I have seen these stores too -- the links to them are on that "other large SL-related forurm". I am astonished that they continue to freely sell this stuff with the name brand and images still on them. I should not be astonished, of course -- when I file DMCAs, LL takes a few things down but does nothing to the account, so they just put things back up. It is easier to put stuff back up than to DMCA it.

[Dresden Ceriano]

Is there a point you're trying to make or are you just venting?

...Dres

[PaperB]

Yes, here is my point, i wroted it from my cel so i coudnt wrote as long as i would liked to.

But, the point, beside me beeing astonished and amazed is, how can this continue to go on?, to me this affect the market in several ways, maybe not noticeable right away but trust me you will see it on the long run.

I John Doe, content creator for sl general audience, make a product, that may take me weeks to work it out, maybe months,I think that vary from person to person, but whatever, it takes me time to make, and money to make to. I work my brand, take time, make groups, i work it in general.

I place it on my store at the grid and at mp, with the hope that in selling a lot of copies, i will eventually get that time and investment paid, but this kind of issues appear. I, do as told and  file a complain, flag the item, let people know, and NOTHING happens, because my products keep beeing selled by others.

On top of that, i see how the store that stealed my product recieved a not good but great review on the product they stole from me.

Whould i be continue creating for sl?, maybe, or maybe i will call it a day and stop, or maybe ill just realease in here stuff that i dont mind much to be stolen.

So here is my point of view, on the long run, sl will either, have a whole lot content creators leaving , or the content will drop its quality, because there is zero support for them. (not to mention the TOS change is not helping either)

On top of this only cheap stuff will continue to be sale, because as i just see consumers rather have the copied version FULL PERM for 300$ than the original one for 900$, and i do think this affect the mp too; but it can be just my opinion.

They say that consumers have no way to know it what they are buying is copied or not
I can agree to that to a point, but in this particular case, THEY CAN, the product is advertised as "xxx skin from xxx brand" the pic is the same, however the store isnt. the same is with the mesh they offer in here. I would like to assume that people arent extremely stupid, and they can read a product title enough to know what is it,  so at this point, i just can think they do this because they just dont care.

And as about for mp, i dont know really, there is no way to flag items to be a copy of others, nor can i do anything else than just im the creator, and i dont think that helps at all really.

So to me this whole issue is a bit insulting, i might have been lucky enough to not have any of mine product ending beeing sold at that store..yet...but the fact that it hasnt happen to me yet doesnt matter to me really, i think if it happens to others very well can end up happening to me, and i do believe every merchant should think that way in order to get the better for us all. Maybe try to work out a solution? or some sort of aliance i dont know, i posted this to share my opinion and read the opion of the others.

..and sorry for my grammar english is not my main

[Ren Toxx]

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PaperB wrote: [...]

 how can this continue to go on?

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I'll answer you with a question: how would you stop it?

[Dartagan Shepherd]

There's always a point, it depends on the delivery and comprehension. Also, venting is valid. Thanks for playing.

[PaperB]

I dont know how to fix it to be honest, I did post this with the hope that maybe we could come to a solution in group or at the very least let the word out and call atention to this issue.

It would be incredible naive and pretentious of me to even think its a simple thing to fix.

Plus I believe discussing issues dont hurt, but let you know other people points of view on the fact. :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

 

 

 

[Dartagan Shepherd]

It's LL's world. Everything is allowed at the companies discretion, especially now.

Answer: LL puts down the breakfast burrito and removes the content in such obvious cases. No DMCA or legal battles needed.

[Erik Verity]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

It's LL's world. Everything is allowed at the companies discretion, especially now.

Answer: LL puts down the breakfast burrito and removes the content in such obvious cases. No DMCA or legal battles needed.

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And that would be illegal. There really is no such thing as obvious cases - what you think is obvious could very well be someone with permissions from the creator, the creator themselves with a new name or storefront, or even the possibility that they are the true creator instead of who you might think.

Investigating each case like that is not even possible for an Online Service Provider to do with millions (billions or trillions?) of objects, textures, models, etc. uploaded continuously. That's the reason for the DMCA. The law requires them to accept a complaint only from the creator or their legal representative. Any legal battle that might follow is up to the idividual parties; it always has been up to creators to protect their own IP Rights, before DMCA laws and after.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Yes it most certainly is legal for a company to accept, decline, reject or remove any content for any reason they see fit. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. They don't need to claim that it's IP.

Although if they did claim that, they're still within their rights. They now have legal rights over the content.

And they're certainly capable of handling those bazillion objects, they already do handle them in many ways every day.

[Erik Verity]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

Yes it most certainly is legal for a company to accept, decline, reject or remove any content for any reason they see fit. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. They don't need to claim that it's IP.

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When selling a service, including and especially MP services, there are terms and legal agreements going beyond simply selecting what you want to allow or not. You cannot sell a service or product, require an investment from the buyer, and then change your mind afterwards. It's not the same thing as simply allowing what you want and disallowing whatever you choose. There actually are guidelines that LL publishes to decide this anyway - basically, they took that privilege of choosing already, and published their guidelines.

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

Although if they did claim that, they're still within their rights. They now have legal rights over the content.

 

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You have to discern whether or not you are referring to DMCA here or not - you are mixing up different subjects. DMCA laws and eligibility guidelines are also published - and they strictly prohibit accepting DMCA takedown requests from anyone other than creators and their representatives.

The rights LL is claiming now do not claim to take away yours as a creator,  - they do claim to have as much rights as you though. For a completely different subject (which I won't try to start other than this mention), I am not sure they can still qualify for DMCA protection themself because their far-reaching hand now, but that would be up to others to figure out and decide.

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

 

And they're certainly capable of handling those bazillion objects, they already do handle them in many ways every day.

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"handle" ? There is no way to "handle" content manually without a million or more people. There really shouldn't be a disagreement there either if you take a few minutes to search and find out the reason DMCA was enacted. Its entire creation came shortly after the birth of the internet era - when OSPs had to approach the US congress for help and guidance after proving that it was impossible to comply with present copyright and IP law in the new Digital Age. If you do just a little bit of reading, you will find that that last statement is completely false.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

You're taking the DMCA out of context of action. Companies appreciated it because it removed them from being liable for the volume of content they claimed they couldn't police. And it's fair in that context for providers of services. It doesn't mean a company can't take action for their own reasons including erring on the side of caution.

The DMCA bit is irrelevent on LL's side now that they have legal rights. Who are they going to file a DMCA with? Themselves?

They'd simply remove it. The legal rights "may" be intended to protect themselves in the case of counter action.

Either way at this point saying LL "can't" remove content and take more action is bogus.

[Erik Verity]

Yes, it does mean that. Most of the time, those with content removed can sue for damages when their content is wrongly removed. That is the reason that there is a counter filing process - to allow it to be restored. Even a wrongful takedown can be used to identify someone as a repeat offender, which can subject them to further restrictions and actions. Creators are allowed to protect themselves from this. Service Providers are also required to inform them when IP infringement is the reason that their content was removed.

LL was never the party who would file in the first place. You really should take an hour and search what the DMCA process is and how it works.

[Pamela Galli]

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Erik Verity wrote:

Yes, it does mean that. Most of the time, those with content removed can sue for damages when their content is wrongly removed. That is the reason that there is a counter filing process - to allow it to be restored. Even a wrongful takedown can be used to identify someone as a repeat offender, which can subject them to further restrictions and actions. Creators are allowed to protect themselves from this. Service Providers are also required to inform them when the content was removed for this reason.

LL was never the party who would file in the first place. You really should take an hour and search what the DMCA process is and how it works.

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Dartagan is correct.  LL reserves the right to refuse content hosting or any other services to anyone they want any time they want.  They have no obligation to host anyones content. 

They are obligated to do AT LEAST the minimum required by law, but the are certainly not probhibited from doing more if they choose.

Also, look up Red Flag takedowns.

 

 

[Erik Verity]

I never said they had to host anyone's content, nor that they do not have that right. I AM saying they cannot sell the services to a specific party and then just change their mind (there are ways a user can place a large investment with SL beforehand) - that wording protects them as it does most, but they publish guidelines for a reason. You can't just sell someone your car and then decide you won't sell it to them after you take their money either.

Red flag takedowns are not simply taking the word of anyone who happens to think "that's an obvious infringement". A user creating cars cars called Mustang or Chevrolet who are also not accounts owned by Ford or GM can be a red flag takedown.

I've contested this argument with you before, and you still haven't read Title II laws yourself, evidently. DMCA protection absolutely does come with restrictions of minimum requirements, and protect against open ended actions.

[Erik Verity]

Actually, you didn't catch the significance of the notification requirements - it is illegal to takedown content for the reason of it being infringing without disclosing that as the reason to the party having their content removed. Service providers are also required to keep records of those whose content is removed as infringing IP rights in order to identify repeat offenders. I know you have said in other posts that they ignore repeat offenders, and that's why I argued it. If you believe that, you should reporting it to the law, not simply claiming it on a forum.

[Pamela Galli]

How do you know I have not reported it to the law and not just on a forum?

And LAQ IS the Ford Mustang of SL -- one of several.

[Catherine Cotton]

Ban them.  Period.

[Ren Toxx]

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Catherine Cotton wrote:

Ban them.  Period.

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Ban who?

[Catherine Cotton]

Ban them all

It is up to the owner of the orignial mesh and/or texture to file a DCMA take down, and to notifiy LL of any violations.  If you are really concerned,  contact the original creator who's work you think is being ripped and sold. They might be the one selling their own models or they might be very appreciative that someone told them their countess hours of work is being ripped and sold without their permission.   The Marketplace has been a joke a for a long time as well as content within SL if you start looking for ripped content you will surely find it. Be prepared to write a lot of emails.

I think once it is proven that someones work has been ripped,  the offenders account should be banned.  Do not allow them to continue to upload under a new alt either. If that doesn't work LL has no choice but IP bans after that.

I have had my work ripped here in SL I have zero tolorance for thieves who make a profit off other ppl's work. They are usually talentless twits.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Speaking of the MP... Can I ask why you still have sold out items in your store? It skews the search results for those of us that actually have items.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

I do not want to buy templates that are ripped, can you message me the name of person so I dont buy it?

 

 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Speaking of the MP... Can I ask why you still have sold out items in your store? It skews the search results for those of us that actually have items.

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 I hate that!! SOld out should be removed.