I've had all I can take with this "Supposed" Grid status Board

[LaylAmoure Latte]

I can't win for losing......SL tells me it is my fault for not chekcing grid status if I lose something....SO I do this RELIGIOUSLY NOW....Today I log in.....I check grid status board, as a vendor was kind enough to send me some replacement items I lost during a rolling restart......according to the grid status...Nothing at all happening today....so I try to rez the object the vendor sent....and poof, didnt rez, and disappeared from inventory.....I try rezzing other items that were copy...Nope ...I log out and back in....NADA....I do it again....NADA....I go to my viewer support group...ask if anyone else is having problems....someone gives me that stupid grid status board link....and what do you know....Viola....NOW it is there...OMG...if you people do not start inworld notices soon I am going to lose my mind... This is the 5th time notices to that blog have popped up within seconds after I check the status board....Someone with the powers that be in SL needs to start letting people know in world again, this blog is a JOKE!!!!!! and yes I am FURIOUS.  Its not like I am here 24/7 and when I do come in, there is always a problem lately. I have had an island for 2 months now that I can't get my items onto because you are always doing something or having problems. Not having inworld notifications is NOT working.

[Echo Hermit]

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LaylAmoure Latte wrote:

I can't win for losing......SL tells me it is my fault for not chekcing grid status if I lose something....SO I do this RELIGIOUSLY NOW....Today I log in.....I check grid status board, as a vendor was kind enough to send me some replacement items I lost during a rolling restart......according to the grid status...Nothing at all happening today....so I try to rez the object the vendor sent....and poof, didnt rez, and disappeared from inventory.....I try rezzing other items that were copy...Nope ...I log out and back in....NADA....I do it again....NADA....I go to my viewer support group...ask if anyone else is having problems....someone gives me that stupid grid status board link....and what do you know....Viola....NOW it is there...OMG...if you people do not start inworld notices soon I am going to lose my mind... This is the 5th time notices to that blog have popped up within seconds after I check the status board....Someone with the powers that be in SL needs to start letting people know in world again, this blog is a JOKE!!!!!! and yes I am FURIOUS.  Its not like I am here 24/7 and when I do come in, there is always a problem lately. I have had an island for 2 months now that I can't get my items onto because you are always doing something or having problems. Not having inworld notifications is NOT working.

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Feel better for the rant?  It's always good to vent, and although we, as residents like yourself, can do very little about this current situation, we can certainly empathise and sympathise.

Recently LL decided to sack someone who I held in high regard on the technical side. Things seem to have gone even more pear-shaped since his banishment.  The other Lindens would appear to be holding things together with twigs and chewing gum until the glue arrives.

Inworld notifications would be really good - I am sure we used to have them around 2008; yellow notices would come on screen saying "don't rezz any no-copy items" while they did maintenance.

Just know that we're all in the same boat (sinking ship) here. And all we can do in this moment is hang on tight, and hope things settle down once everyone is clear about their roles at LL again after the recent sacking(s).

 

[Cincia Singh]

Nice rant, but there's nothing on the grid status page to account for losing "no copy" items you rez ... there is only a problem with search; nothing about region restarts or asset server issues.

[LaylAmoure Latte]

No I really don't feel better for the rant, but it needs to be said again and again, until the powers that be start paying attention.  I understand we are all in the same sinking ship, and it infuriates me to keep getting the same lame answers over and over....You are supposed to check the grid status report....My whole point is that it is unreliable and that unless you check it once a minute, and even then you aren't safe. A few weeks ago, long after their maintenance was to have finished they didn't post the done message for many hours after the time they said they were going to be done.  When I contacted live chat to see if they were done, they couldn't tell me, as they are instructed to look on the status report too.  Well if someone forgets or fails to post something..No one knows. They could update it 30 seconds after you check it, and having to check more than once at log in is insanity, and very inconvenient.  We have had in world notices "since 2008" I can assure you they were more recent than that since it stopped.  I was told it caused some problems is why it was stopped, but I can guarantee it has caused a lot more since it was stopped, along with their backups before rolling restarts are supposed to be done immediately before a restart and I have proof that they are not done that way, as you can read in previous posts about in world notifications a must.  If as you say someone was let go that used to handle issues in SL, surely this person was not the only person capable of handling issues, and my point is they make a lot of money off of their users...It's time they started acting like it, and train knowledgeable people, capable of doing their jobs well, pay them accordingly, and re-institute In-World notifications, so that users don't feel like we are being bent over the couch so to speak without any lube.  A little warning goes a long way, when blog postings are so completely unreliable....And no .I still don't feel any better about it.  LOL

[LaylAmoure Latte]

Yeah I know..My point exactly......I checked just after I logged in....before rezzing anything...and they were not supposed to be doing anything today....then as I discovered I was having problems, I wrote a couple people and they were having issues as well....then I check blog again...less than 15 minutes after my original check and it is a completely different issue they are blogging about....But instead of asking everyone we know and asking group supports about issues....how bout a nice little in world notice saying...Hey guys we are having some issues...give us a few minutes to work it out, we will let you know when it is resolved...instead of wandering around getting more and more frustrated by the second that we are all having a different problem all the sudden.

[Echo Hermit]

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LaylAmoure Latte wrote:

No I really don't feel better for the rant, but it needs to be said again and again, until the powers that be start paying attention.  I understand we are all in the same sinking ship, and it infuriates me to keep getting the same lame answers over and over....You are supposed to check the grid status report....My whole point is that it is unreliable and that unless you check it once a minute, and even then you aren't safe. A few weeks ago, long after their maintenance was to have finished they didn't post the done message for many hours after the time they said they were going to be done.  When I contacted live chat to see if they were done, they couldn't tell me, as they are instructed to look on the status report too.  Well if someone forgets or fails to post something..No one knows. They could update it 30 seconds after you check it, and having to check more than once at log in is insanity, and very inconvenient.  We have had in world notices "since 2008" I can assure you they were more recent than that since it stopped.  I was told it caused some problems is why it was stopped, but I can guarantee it has caused a lot more since it was stopped, along with their backups before rolling restarts are supposed to be done immediately before a restart and I have proof that they are not done that way, as you can read in previous posts about in world notifications a must.  If as you say someone was let go that used to handle issues in SL, surely this person was not the only person capable of handling issues, and my point is they make a lot of money off of their users...It's time they started acting like it, and train knowledgeable people, capable of doing their jobs well, pay them accordingly, and re-institute In-World notifications, so that users don't

feel like we are being bent over the couch so to speak without any lube

.  A little warning goes a long way, when blog postings are so completely unreliable....And no .I still don't feel any better about it.  LOL

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I used to get accused of wearing rose-tinted glasses, now I can see what might have been happening when they fell off (see emboldened text above).

L.O.L.

Yes, you're right, the chap I grieve for who was unceremoniously fired from LL was not the only person working in the department responsible for keeping the grid well. And communication does need improving.

Keep our eye on any threads started by Maestro Linden - he seems to have got his head stuck above the sandbags currently, so get your bayonets ready (winkey smiley face).

Me and my computer aren't up for any argey bargey today, so I'm off out to RL to wait for the gas man to come and service my boiler (sadly, not a euphemism).

 

[Qie Niangao]

It would be nice if LL Operations had (and used) an in-world notification system, but besides the scheduled maintenance, it would only be useful for occasions when they actually know that something unscheduled is going wrong. As far as I can tell, the grid problem you most recently encountered wasn't known to anybody at the time it was happening. (Which naturally raises another question: Does Operations itself have enough "early warning" problem detection where they need it?)

[Tamara Artis]

Grid status is kinda useless because it posts messages after the problem occured, and we check it AFTER we saw some inworld problems. You need to rely on yourself and people around you. People are the best!

 

• Before rezzing any no-copy objects try to rezz a box, or something from your inventory, with copy permissions. If you loose it, no harm done.
• If you're still not sure, check in one of the support groups before rezzing no copy. See if anyone is having issues.
• And last, don't buy no copy objects lol

[LaylAmoure Latte]

LOL.....love that....sadly not a euphemism....Yeah I had, had enough as well and logged very early and refused to go back last night, I was clearly not in the mood to continue with the mysterious issues that plagued our virtual world.  I can only hope today is a better one, but if the last few months in SL is any indication...I will not be holding my breath for a much improved experience today.  I just hate throwing money away on my virtual world that rarely works as expected lately. I am just very happy that I do not own 3 full sims anymore, and throwing that much money away monthly and not being able to set them up as desired.  I feel bad for the people who own multiple islands and are renting lands as I used to.  Last time I did and had a few issues LL support I believe was using robots to respond to messages on support tickets, as it was clear they were not reading my tickets and kept giving me the same answer of which i replied many times...yes I have already done that, what else can I do...again same answer with same reply from Linden....It was then my frustration became so great I asked who was running LL a bunch of monkies?...of which they then threatened to cancel my account..LOL....OF course they read THAT one...LOL  Glad to say now, that at least real people are indeed handling support cases these days, but it was many years in between, before I ever asked for their help again. 

[LaylAmoure Latte]

Sadly I had already done that.....I checked grid status...nothing scheduled since 17th, and nothing else was to be done until the 27th....so still being leary, I rezzed a copy object...no issue rezzing it....then I tried a no copy item I didnt care if I lost...no issue....then I tried the no copy box that had just been given to me from the vendor that replaced my no copy items that I had lost previously....and it would not rez....I checked highlight invisible, nada, I waited a bit...tried to rez another copy item, no rez, then I logged out twice, to see if it would come back...no either time.....then I asked someone on my server...are you having issues?...she replies she had just tried on a shirt and wore 10 pair of shoes....I checked blog again...nothing....I went to firestorm support group and it was going nuts all kinds of issues from different people....checked grid status again...and finally there it was, but not relating to what we were experiencing...but clearly it was affecting way more than the status reported.  I did everything right, but still it didn't matter...that is why I was so upset...an in world notice would have saved alot of frustrating drama I experienced...maybe NOT before I lost the box I tried to rez, but certainly it would have saved listening to all the drama of asking everyone are you having issues too, or just me?  I know things can happen at any given time....but in the last 2 months I have experienced more issues than the entire 5 years I have been in SL put together...thus enhancing my frustration....I just beg again for in world notices as soon as they know there is an issue, to save a whole lot of drama of everyone filling support groups with messages, and from checking grid status every 30 seconds to see if something is going wrong.  I just felt very safe last night, the first time in weeks, because nothing had been done in 2 days, and nothing was scheduled for several more...and boom that blew up in my face immediately, bad timing, poor luck...whatever you want to call it...but I am so leary of rezzing objects now and dressing my poor bald naked av, I literally feel I need a drink before sitting down to do the simplest things, and say a prayer before rezzing. I come to SL to relax...not lose my mind or be filled with dread.

[LaylAmoure Latte]

Sadly some object do not come in copy version, and the items that I lost were bought well over a year ago, and none of her items were sold as copy versions. Also copy version in a lot of places are quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Tamara Artis]

I'm sorry to hear that, I know I would be sad.. I try not to buy no-copy stuff but sometimes like you said, transfer is cheaper..

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:

It would be nice if LL Operations had (and used) an in-world notification system, but besides the scheduled maintenance, it would only be useful for occasions when they actually know that something unscheduled is going wrong. As far as I can tell, the grid problem you most recently encountered wasn't known to anybody at the time it was happening. (Which naturally raises another question: Does Operations itself have enough "early warning" problem detection where they need it?)

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"Which naturally raises another question: Does Operations itself have enough "early warning" problem detection where they need it?"

Somethhing like this?

I used to wish that we got InWorld notifications too and wondered why we didn't.

Actually was thinking about it again recently.  It's probably the technical complexity that hinders it.

Do you send out a blanket warning to the several million accounts so not only those who are logged in get it but also so it is waiting for anyone who logs in after it has been sent?

So somehow the message server would have to be able to identify who is logged in AND until the all clear is sounded continue to send the message to new log ins.

As best I see it, the only way for it to work would be to have a port open in every ones Viewer who is logged in for the express purpose of communicating the information. But as I understand it, open ports can pose a security risk.

I know you understand this stuff way better than I do.  Am I making sense?

 

[LaylAmoure Latte]

I can't tell you the complexities of how it is done, but I know for certain that IN-World notifications were done for many years when I first started SL, so I do not see why they can't do it again.  Until someone tells me why this cannot be done...I am pushing for it to come back.  I don't see any reason why in world people can't receive a warning message that has to be clicked on to get rid of it, and why those who are not on, will not know, until they log in, and a message is sent when they log  on.  That is the way it was done for a very long time, and I never lost a thing.  When problems arose while we were online a message was sent...warning everyone not to rez no copy objects, purchase money or make any inworld purchases.  I do understand that until a problem arises and it is reported, SL must not know about it. I have no idea what their warning system is, but you would think there would be someplace (whereever the systems are monitored) that notifies LL when there is a bad lag, or a problem on a server, and at that time a notice again could go out....there seems to be an issue, please refrain from XXXXXXXXXX until we notify you it has been resolved.  It may not save everyone, but at least those of us who are leary of losing objects, would have the sense not to do anything, until they figure it out, and resolve the issue....I have noticed many times in SL while one problem is going on, and they are working on it, it affects other things in SL, which must have been the issue this week, as my problem was not what was being addressed.  This has been an ongoing issue for at least 5 years that I have been here, so I know if one thing is being worked on. I do nothing until it is resolved...other than possibly moving objects around on my land or perhaps touring other sims, but I don't do anything that I could lose....I might not be able to Teleport or change clothes, and may stay bald and naked, but that would be the worst that would happen to me, were I notified of any issue being worked on, on any server, not just mine.

[l3al3e]

I was in the mood to work on my house and had a friend come over to help me when shorty there after the crap started to hit the fan. She told me that they used to log everyone out of Second Life completely to do whatever they do. Maybe they should even put a big yellow notice on the log in screen about what their doing and when they'll be done to. I got real life things done I needed to do, came back and all was well.

[Qie Niangao]

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Somethhing like this?

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Yeah, kinda. There are two problems; the main focus of this thread is how to notify users when you know you've got problems; I'm personally more interested in how to detect that problems are developing before they turn into crises.

In fact, the grid is much more reliable than it was when I started--but one would hope so, since that was over six years ago. Some of that improvement must be due to better surveillance of grid conditions (as well as better software -- which two improvements go hand-in-glove for managing a complex system).

A couple months ago, however, there was a disastrously disruptive rollout on one of the RC channels that screwed up Land Impact calculations and returned tons of content, requiring not only a rollback but also restoral of saved state for affected sims. That's when I really started wondering if Operations had all the grid telemetry they needed, and whether there was a monitoring system that did enough with all that data to make it useful.  I was reminded of fraud-detection systems that monitor truly vast amounts of data for patterns that deviate from statistical norms -- even if there's never before been an incident of fraud that exhibited that particular pattern.

There's lots more fun to be had with Big Data these days, and lots of tools and techniques for analyzing it after the fact, as well as in real time. It's all a hot enough research topic that an intern from the right graduate program might produce something actually useful with SL grid data. I wonder if LL board members with connections as UCB, Stanford, etc., could help recruit for that. I mean, it's all very well to try to grab talent in 3D graphics, gaming, or whatever they think is sexy, but after all, their real business is operating a large scale, complex, distributed system.

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I don't see a big technical hurdle (other than simple linear scaling) to broadcasting one-way notifications to everybody already in the grid. There's already a "presence" system that knows all the active logins in order to set up IM sessions, etc. In fact, I'll bet the viewers can still handle grid-wide notifications; they certainly know how to handle sim-scale notices (although I'm not impressed by the UI for those).

And of course they have the whole login screen to warn people of ongoing issues affecting availability, and scheduled maintenance.

What would be more difficult is anything other than a broadcast. For example, I personally would love to get a warning, "The sim you're about to enter [or to which you're teleporting] is going down in 3 minutes. Are you sure you want to continue?" If the user doesn't click "Yes", the handoff wouldn't be initiated. That would be harder.

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Somethhing like this?

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Yeah, kinda. There are two problems; the main focus of this thread is how to notify users when you know you've got problems; I'm personally more interested in how to detect that problems are developing before they turn into crises.

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I'll agree with you on the 'detecting the problems.'  A couple of months ago I had a problem with the SIM I live on repeatedly going "off line," something I now understand is not that uncommon an occurence.  Why there appears to be nothing in the Simulator code to send an alert to Operations doesn't make sense.  We are left with the impression they are reactive rather than proactive.  It took me documenting all the "restarts" to get the situation investigated and resolved.  That seems a little backwards to me.

 

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Qie Niangao wrote

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I don't see a big technical hurdle (other than simple linear scaling) to broadcasting one-way notifications to everybody already in the grid. There's already a "presence" system that knows all the active logins in order to set up IM sessions, etc. In fact, I'll bet the viewers can still handle grid-wide notifications; they certainly know how to handle sim-scale notices (although I'm not impressed by the UI for those).

And of course they have the whole login screen to warn people of

ongoing

issues affecting availability, and

scheduled

maintenance.

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Cool.  I may have been making it more complex than it actually is. 

If it's really not that hard to do then it is a matter of poor customer service.  Suxxors.

 

[LaylAmoure Latte]

AMEN!!!  I remember this as well....and I would rather they log us all out to do what needs to be done rather than have us all start freaking out and wondering what the heck is going on...Notify us, and log us out in-world , give us an estimated time when we can come back...note I did say..>ESTIMATED TIME<...then be done with it.

 

[LaylAmoure Latte]

Whatever works and notifications....that really isnt too much to ask....I remember when we all used to have standard log outs, and that was ok with me...so LL doesnt have to work around people doing all kinds of things, and deal with the issues of hacked off people that lose data, items, purchases etc....

[LaylAmoure Latte]

It shouldnt be hard at all....considering the improvements that have been made in 5 years

[Marianne McCann]

Here's a little something I suggested waaaay back in 2010. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-20081

[LaylAmoure Latte]

That would work for me....and it would solve the issue of missing something no matter where you are or if you were in mid teleport, or afk for a bit...it would just be there for you to see....I have the TMS grid thing now, but i don't like it taking up space on my island and it's ugly....I suppose I could get one that is mod and make it into whatever I want....I would just prefer not to use prims to be notified of issues...the ticker would be a great idea and could be as you said...a click off in preferences if you never wanted to see the ticker.  I'm all for it.