CPU or GPU the bottleneck in rendering?

[Cougar Hotaling]

 Hiya!   I just bought a new HP p6-2220t desktop with an Intel Pentium G640 2.8GHz (dual core) with 4 GB RAM and the integrated Intel HD graphics (1.7GB shared Ram, i think).Now at last I can run SL !!

Overall I am quite impressed with this system using SL. No bugs at all except that entering a new area, especially with lots of avis running, then sometimes I have to wait 5 minutes to get everything filled in.

 

 I am on Cable that tests between 8Mbs to 15 Mbs.

 I notice that the CPU is pegged at 100% during this fill-in period. Frame-rates drop below 15fps and sometimes go below 10. Kbs fluctuates between 100 and 400 or so with momentart spikes of 700+.

   Will a better Graphics card cure the slow fill-in issue or is it the CPU (or both!)? I did try to install a Radeon 6670 but for some reason it didn't work (I only have 300w to play with here). Much Thanks In Advance - Cougo5

[Alazarin Mondrian]

You will need to get yourself a dedicated graphics card. Intel integrated graphics is fine for most run-of-the-mill stuff but falls over when faced with the workload the SL viewer throws at it. I use an Nvidia GT440 and manage to get a reasonable framerate so long as I disable the top-end features. YMMV.

[Baloo Uriza]

GPU.  Big time.  Intel makes GPUs that are fantastic for office desktops, but not really all that great at gaming or engineering applications.  If it handles AutoCAD well, you'll probably do well with SL.

[Cougar Hotaling]

 Hey, Thanks. I lookrd up your GT440 on "Passmark" and it is rated roughly 2.5 X higher than my onboard graphics. So maybe I'll go with that or something even better that is on sale and doesn't consume too much current.

 

 Question; How do you choose to not use (I think you said..) high end settings? Do you mean lowering the draw distance and setting the grapics below the higherst setting? Thanks- Cougo

[Perrie Juran]

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Cougar Hotaling wrote:

Overall I am quite impressed with this system using SL. No bugs at all except that entering a new area, especially with lots of avis running, then sometimes I have to wait 5 minutes to get everything filled in.

 

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After the recent changes moving Avatar Baking to Server Side I too started having trouble with long rendering times.

On an educated whim I decided to try turning HTTP off and this solved my problem.  Oddly enough, before this change HTTP worked faster for me.

In preferences / graphics tab / advanced look for the check box for HTTP and give that a try, toggling on or off as the case may be. 

I imagine that there is a rhyme or reason to  this though I admit I don't know what it is.  Just that it worked for me.

[Cougar Hotaling]

 Hi. funny you should mention CAD because that is one of the reasons I bought this machine. I'm still saving up for a CAD program to test it out with though.

 

 So you think the CPU at 100% is not indicative of that being a limiting factor then.

 I spent 5 hours trying to get the Radeon 6670 to work (It was the top value on Toms Hardware site earlier this year) .

 I still have 2 months return option on this computer so I can upgrade the whole thing if I want. Maybe I'll try another card such as was recommended above. Thanks- Cougo

[Baloo Uriza]

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Cougar Hotaling wrote:

 Hi. funny you should mention CAD because that is one of the reasons I bought this machine. I'm still saving up for a CAD program to test it out with though.

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Prepare for pain!

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Cougar Hotaling wrote:

 So you think the CPU at 100% is not indicative of that being a limiting factor then.

 I spent 5 hours trying to get the Radeon 6670 to work (It was the top value on Toms Hardware site earlier this year) .

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More indicative of the CPU having to do the GPU's job in that case.  The Radeon should work; it may be easier to get that working in Linux.  FGLRX (the linux drivers for most ATI/AMD GPUs) seems to be a bit more of a sure shot and reliable than the Windows drivers in general on the Radeon line.  If you go that route, I recommend Debian.  Quite a few CAD open source programs available on Linux that can accept and save to dwg files, too.

[Cougar Hotaling]

Thanks Perrie Juran.  Perhaps you are on a different viewer or differaent version. I don't have an HTTP check box in Me/Preferences/Graphics/advanced. I'll keep looking though. Thanks- Cougo

[Cougar Hotaling]

 Thanks Baloo Uriza.

 

   I'm still struggling with W-7 so I don't really want to dive into some Linux program.

  When I prepared for the Radeon 6670 install I "disabled" the onboard graphics. Maybe I should have "uninstalled" instead?

 Also when I booted with the new card in there windows automatically, without prompting or permission, downloaded some sort of driver for it. Then I tried to use the CD for install and the directions did not make sense since options and proceedures were different from what I was seeing on-screen.

 I tried to download from AMD and that went through but still no graphics. I ran NovaBench and it immediately stalled with the notice " unhandled exceptions" and could not proceed with the test. The detailed explanation was long and (to me) too highly technical to be of any use.

 I thought it would be a slam-dunk affair.  Anything but !  Thanks- Cougo

[Nalates Urriah]

There are no recent changes that move avatar baking to the server side. That is a future improvment the Lab annouced it is working on.

Depending on the region and the SIM it is in, HTTP on or off may be faster. HTTP will generally be faster and more reliable as it uses TCP with error correction. With HTTP off the viewer falls back to UDP, which has no error correction. Because it is so region dependent one cannot say on or off is better. It depends...

 

The CPU's in an HD Graphics system must calulate most of the 3D models and handle texture decompression. With a graphics card both of those tasks can be handed off to the GPU. Without a GPU the CPU's are going to bottleneck.

For more info on graphics tweaking see: Graphics Tweaking for Second Life

[Cougar Hotaling]

Thank you Nalates, very informative. I checked out the Graphics Tweaking link and also studied the Gamespot article. - Cougo

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

There's so many things that can be a problem, but I remember seeing the same high-CPU-load situation when I was running Windows XP, and it vanished when I went to Windows 7 on the same hardware. I doubt that's a factor with a new machine, but it's always worth mentioning the OS version you're using.

 

[VRprofessor]

I started a thread asking about the nvidia based 640 GPU relative to the 520 I am using now.  The 520 is a definite upgrade to what you have, but it is still slow. But, using an inferior CPU, I see the 520 taking a lot of load off the CPU and where you are waiting about 5 minutes I am waiting about 2.

One of the posters also reminded me that GPUs need power and you need an adequate power supply.  The 520 should run on a 300w power supply, but the 640 needs a minimum of 350w. 

I'll be okay because I happen to have a used (but working) 400w power supply I can stick in the computer.  But if I were buying a power supply to support the GPU I would notice that the 550-600w power supplies are only a few bucks more than a 400w (especially if you watch the sales) and that the price point of the GTX 550ti cards is only $10 -$20 higher than the 640.  (The 550ti is what I have at home and if I weren't always looking for an excuse to buy new tech I'd be happy with it.)

[Perrie Juran]

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Nalates Urriah wrote:

There are no recent changes that move avatar baking to the server side. That is a future improvment the Lab annouced it is working on.

Depending on the region and the SIM it is in, HTTP on or off may be faster. HTTP will generally be faster and more reliable as it uses TCP with error correction. With HTTP off the viewer falls back to UDP, which has no error correction. Because it is so region dependent one cannot say on or off is better. It depends...

 

The CPU's in an HD Graphics system must calulate most of the 3D models and handle texture decompression. With a graphics card both of those tasks can be handed off to the GPU. Without a GPU the CPU's are going to bottleneck.

For more info on graphics tweaking see: 

Graphics Tweaking for Second Life

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I may have misunderstood the Blog post regarding  Project Shining .  I was of under impression that this was implemented.

What I do know is that I suddenly started having major troubles with rendering time at a few of my favorite places.  I didn't go to all of them but the two I went to last night are on Main Channel.  So something is going on but I don't know what is causing it.  However,  as you know, I've been struggling with oddball problems for a while.

[Perrie Juran]

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WolfBaginski Bearsfoot wrote:

There's so many things that can be a problem, but I remember seeing the same high-CPU-load situation when I was running Windows XP, and it vanished when I went to Windows 7 on the same hardware. I doubt that's a factor with a new machine, but it's always worth mentioning the OS version you're using.

 

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I have given serious consideration to this. My current plan is to add a second HD to my Computer and Run Win7 on it.  I have a lot of money invested in other productivity software that would not run on Vista and the new versions do not offer any 'must have' features for me that would justify replacing them. 

As far as HTTP textures goes, I believe this is the setting you want in the official viewer.  It's i the develop menu.  In Firestorm/Phoenix its also in the Graphics Preference Tab.

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ETA to add picture

[Cougar Hotaling]

 Just to close out this thread;

 

 Thanks so much to all for the advice.

 I finally installed a Radeon HD 6670 shortly after my last post and IT ROCKS!!!  I have excellent frame rates and even with many avis present. I never experience any significant delays "getting the grey out".

 I guess it's been 2 years already but I have to say that the $49US that I paid for this card was the best improvement I ever could have imagined and more. I'm all smiles still. Brian