[I didn't expect this]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

on the Linden viewer

menu: Me \ Preferences \ Notifications \ Warn me if my avatar complexity may be too high.  [ ^ Always show. v Never show ]

Thankees!

 

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

But you are missing the point. Games offer far more instant fun than SL does. So once again no new person is willing to spend money from the get go until they know whether it is worth while to stay.

No, no new person is going to leave SL because of a relationship gone wrong. Not finding friends or something to do is precisely why they leave SL as you mention. Now lets break down "things to do". At most if people want to find something to do in SL it is mostly RP communties. Low and behold, you have to buy items aka clothing and appearance to get in theme for these places for new people to find something to do that keeps them in SL. We even have threads in these forums now saying RP communities are asking for Mesh bodies.

What's to say I don't have years of experience? You seem to think 'cause you rent out land you are the be all and end all of experience, sorry to burst your bubble, but I have been there done that, even helped newbies over the years etc and my experience as well as posters in this very thread are very different to your experience. 

You say I can buy a mesh body for $4.50 yet further down you claim $5000 lindens or $18.75 is the cost. Make up your mind. Also for a mesh body you need body L$3-5000, head L3-5000, Skin L$300-1200L, hair L$300-1000L. Unless I am really bad at maths, thats a little more than L$5000.

As for starter clothing, I never said no one keeps them for x period. I did say however than without GOOD quality starter outfits that fit all starter avatars it forces people who want to look decent to spend money on the game which at a first look is an instant turn off for new users.

You clearly lack any form of understanding of Free Health Care if you believe other countries don't pay for it. As for low cost of transport, I don't know where to start if you think that is the case.

Once again free health care isn't free. Your argument is lower taxes, yet seem to not understand how 'free' health care works. Oh dear sounds like your greater than everyone else 'experience' in living in other countries isn't that great after all. Anyway this is all off topic.

No they don't have to spend $50. No one has argued that the should. That said the marketing offered gives the impression that those mesh bodies looks are what you get on sign up only to find that the hype or expectation isn't met on sign up. People don't leave cause they don't want to spend money, people leave because the advertisement of the LOOK of the ENTIRETY of SL from the start is different to what's advertised. To get the same experience as advertised one needs to spend money which new users don't want to do until they know they will stay. You are hooked on the wrong point. It has nothing to do with not being willing to spend money in sl.

Where is yours that proves the opposite.

Good for you. You run polls that have no decreeable way to determine who is new and therefore they are flawed polls. Its certainly funny how you mention jobs are what most of your 'polls' say is needed so they can earn money inworld, but somehow are of the belief that spending RL money on SL isn't a concern to new users in SL.

Um, it's not that I am "missing the point" -- it's that I have a different opinion than you do based on more experience. Try to hear it.

We were talking overall about retention in general originally, so describing why people leave who have been here awhile is certain valid. And "relationship gone wrong" can be something that happens within 48 hours, when, oh, a newbie discovers their girlfriend is actually a man in RL. That sort of thing.

"Something to do" in SL is not at all only RP communities; that's not even the majority. "Something to do" can be live music, a NASA exhibit, exploring, etc. Most people are norms and find RP too involved -- not expensive, but too involved. But some people love it and have worked up extensive and deep legends and content and enjoy it and have many deep, rewarding friendships and lovers from it. It's not for the newbie necessarily -- but the reason why Gor can snare so many newbies is that they have a plan to get people and induct them, and the average club doesn't even have a tenth as much. None of them hang out a sign, "Welcome newbies! Free shirt" -- for example.

Um, "which is it"? The point is there is a RANGE. You can spend as little as $1250 on a mesh body, and by a good name brand, or go up higher, and spend $5000 or more. I don't need to "make up my mind" about a DIVERSE market in which many people, newbies included, find their way.

I suspect your rage about the lack of library content is probably not curable, but it's a good thing most people don't suffer from that rage.

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? I've lived in quite a few. Starting with Canada, "Friendly, Foreign, and Near," where I went to university, and nearly died in the socialized health care system. And yes, you pay for it, and no, not only in taxes, but there can be fees involved all through it. I suppose the biggest fee is when you take that bus to Maine to get your medical care down there, and not for cheap, because there isn't a line (or wasn't, before the virus).

Newbies are happy to spend money. It never pays to infantalize and dumb down and poor down newbies as if they are some strange breed of being who has never been to Biloxi to see the races. Or course they have. Even I am amazed when people two weeks old come and spend the equivalent of $10 US for a month of my rentals, but they do. There is a certain demographic of newbie that is as you describe, but SL would be a dust bowl if that were the norm. You also seem short on solutions. You want the Lindens to solicit and pay for people to put content in the library. Why? That's what the...er...free market does, and probably at a lower cost, as those content makers the Lindens hire have to be paid more than "little dressmakers" in SL. 

You seem to find it hard to hold complexities in your head. Yes, jobs is the one thing people wish there were -- so they could make back their cost. But yes, they also spend money. Content makers make $450 million US per year from SL. That's quite a phenomenon that no other social media or game in the world can boast of.

Let me suggest that the welcome areas that I keep filled with content and help areas are mainly filled with newbies -- because I talk to them and see their ages. And they are mainly the ones filling out the polls. Which is why the question "Do you buy gatchas" can even have the answer "What is a gatcha". Sure, some people return for years to the place they first landed. But it doesn't matter. You don't have data -- period. I have some data but with flawed conditions (alts, not-newbies). The real people with the data who know why 9 out of 10 people don't stick aren't telling us. But even their A/B tests are flawed in that they skew to their own ideologies as nerds and "professional marketers". So if somebody bails after finding nothing but a building tutorial and a game involving driving around a vehicle and crushing rats (the newbie landing experience organized by the Lindens for a time), they might not understand that their very set-up is the problem. 

This is why the welcome areas should have billboards with ads that take people to clubs, events, rentals. Of course those with either an aversion to capitalism or a loathing of what they view as low culture -- or both -- will not see this.

I have yet to hear any convincing arguments or facts so I'll see myself out, you can have the last word.

 

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

According to whom is a suggestion not necessary?  

TinyLand would be a General family related platform which I suggested as something that could compete with Roblox if you read this whole thread not compete with SL.  You cannot have a family platform with an Adult Trazillion XXXXXXXXXXXXX platform.  

I will continue to make suggestions as I please as long as they are within the TOS.  

Yeah, me, too.

And right off the bat I will note that you are assuming that if someone choses to be a tiny or a Dinkie, they do not want any adult content. I'm someone who is happy not to have any adult content and block it on searches where it is particularly graphic and ugly, even. But the reality is, I know for a fact that people who have Dinkie avatars, and get into the Dinkie events and merchandise, also have adult lives with other costumes or alts. It's rare that people are only one thing in SL. So to set up a separate world on separate servers where you can't fluidly go back and forth among different identities seems like a recipe for failure to me. Of course, anyone can go on Open Sim and create Tinyville if they like. That they don't is about lack of a market and return of costs and lack of activity, really.

There doesn't seem to be an overlap between the child avatars some of who verge on criminal activity (which is why I ban them) and Dinkies, although some sims ban Dinkies as if they were child avatars, and Dinkies get angry calling them prejudiced. If you have had as much experience as I have had in 16 years with child avatars -- who almost always cause trouble of one form or another -- as distinct from tinies/petites/Dinkies, you will get it. But the point is, if you feel that you have to be in a world sequested from adult activity to have Dinkiedom, that's fine, create it and see who shows up. I think it will be a small crowd as the fluidity and freedom of SL regarding identities and being able to change them is a big attraction of SL. And those who ban all small creatures out of bad experience with child avatars, cutting too wide a swathe -- well, they have good reason, and of course in your country, you won't ban anyone over their belief system, right?

I'd also have to question the idea of what "family platform" is, as if there is a market for entire families playing online together in one game. I don't think that's the case. The demographics stay in separate games. I remember when my children were growing up, my rule was simply that they had to play their games and do online socializing on the one computer we had, and then two, in the living room, so that I could watch what they were doing, so that they didn't get into trouble and I more or less knew what was going on. That isn't foolproof, as they have friends' houses they go to and can be exposed to adult and violent content. But you can mitigate it by taking an interest in watching what the kids are watching. That doesn't mean we would sit and play Animal Crossing together, however.

But...As you seem to have an axe to grind here I will leave you to your chopping! Wash your hands!

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:56 PM, Drayke Newall said:

But you don't seem to get the argument. They may be there looking at new clothes etc, but new clothes don't fit the newbie outfits as all clothes these days are made for the major mesh bodies. You say that you only need 1000L$ but this is just so insanely wrong. No new user wants to look like the starter avatars, they all want to look like those that they have seen in the marketing campaigns. Go ask them or just read some of the external out of the SL sphere posts of people that have left.

It on average, for a newbie to look anything like the mesh avatars that are shown in the advertising campaigns, will cost them $50 USD just for the body, hair, skin, head and any other body accessories such as tattoo etc. Then on top of that they have top buy the clothes.

For a new user the spending that kind of money with the possibility they will leave in a month isn't worth the investment and instantly puts a negative thought into the new users mind that this 'game' is to expensive. Sure there are some that stick around for the long haul, though the majority leave cause it is cost prohibitive from the start.

No. Just no. Once again no new user will get premium as they are not sure whether they are going to stay around. Even if they did, to get a decent body like the marketing campaigns they will need months of stipend to actually save enough and by that time they would have left.

Comparing SL new users to WoW is just ridiculous and shows a lack of your understanding on the mentality between gamers and what they would expect in SL. Which is why in my first post I said it is not worthwhile for LL to advertise to the game market unless they change the first experience accordingly.

When a person pays $15 for WoW a month they get an entire game, objective, avatar cusomisation (within theme), ground mounts, flying mounts, all inworld armor and clothes, questing, objectives, hairstyles, guilds, RP communities, chat, adventure, auction house, in world currency is earnt to buy from the AH, a game that is regularly updated with QUALITY updates and things to do etc. I could go on and on. They get all that FOR $15 USD.

On the flip side in Second Life premium gets them what? no full and decent objective driven game, armor or clothes that need to be bought with real money, hairstyles that need to be bought with real money, mounts that need to be bought with real money, communities that need to be found but are no where near what games provide, a marketplace that costs real money, and no way to earn in world currency. In other words they have to spend MORE money over their subscription to 'PLAY' the game. Everything bar the house in the premium model is worthless to a new user and even the house generally is as well due to them then needing to spend even more money just to furnish it.

So no, don't even compare the value of a SL subscription to the value of any subscription model game as you will not win such an argument.

The difference is fortnite is free but they base avatar looks comparable with those that can be bought with cash. The other issue is that a new user doesn't need to buy an entire new avatar to wear those items. It is a simple I like that and so i'll get it.

In SL a new user hyped from the marketing campaign has to update their body from the starter avatars to wear any decent clothes, then from there they have to work out which mesh body they want but find issues that some skins don't work for those bodies so have to be careful and research what skins go on which bodies and which heads go on which bodies and which clothing goes on which bodies. The entire process is 1000's of times more complex than system like Fortnite where they login, select a character then buy outfits that suit that avatar with no ambiguity or thought as to whether it will fit or not.

All users I have talked to and all reviews out of the SL blog shere I have read point to a few things as to why they leave and top of the list are the cost of the 'game', the starter avatars are to different to what they saw and updating them is confusing and expensive, and that it is hard to find something to do as all sims they go to are empty.

So yes it is very much the clothing and avatar issue that is the cause of lack of retention.

You are missing the point again. They want to look as advertised FROM THE START in the base body form and it is extremely difficult to actually buy decent clothes for the starter avatars. It is to much of a complicated process for the new user to have to learn not only the viewer but the complexities of what will work with which body.

Many new users even state that they wasted so much money in buying clothes only to find they didn't fit for the starter avatars or mesh ones as they EXPECT everything to fit (due to every other game or platform being this way).

2500L$ is not enough to get the look the advertisement hyped and as I said before no new user is wiling to INVEST in SL until they know they will like it therefore they leave because they don't look like what was advertised.

Also you have to remember that not everyone lives in the USA. This is a major gripe of mine when I see people saying it only costs x USD. Good for you, however unlike games and many other services like Netflix, WoW,  fortnite etc, which cost $15 (or whatever) per month in another country IN THERE OWN CURRENCY (as they have found statistically by charging the same everywhere they will get more users) LL have refused to do this and so what costs $x for the USA costs far more for other countries. For example it costs an extra $6 in my currency to get the same amount of lindens your $10.75 gets. Your argument will probably be that is only $6 but it all adds up in a budget especially when every other western country in the world has a higher cost of living than the USA. You also must not forget markets change and even now another GFC is looking likely which will severely impact on peoples spending habits.

This has been my experience as well when talking to multiple new users and your quote of what he said is a great example of what I just replied with above.

A technique of arguing that says "you haven't understood me" or "you have no reading comprehension" when what you mean to say is "you keep disagreeing with me" -- because you have presented no compelling facts but only impressions and anecdotes -- is never persuasive.

I had an even longer answer to you but I lost it and now I think it's not worth trying to oppose each point. The fact is, you don't have the information. You have anecdotal stories gained from this or that contact or blog, but you don't have a definitive exit poll of why people leave. Your theory that they leave over the cost of clothing isn't born out by the sheer fact of the enormous expenditures that people DO make for these things. Sale clothing can be just as fancy as expensive clothing -- it's by the same makers. A mesh body is US $4.50 to start; even a very fancy get-up isn't going to be more than the $15 or $20 that people spend without a thought on WoW. And yes, it's worth comparing, even if it's a different demographic (although it does overlap) simply because it shows people will spend online for virtuality if they find it compelling, and it's more about "things to do" and friends than "look".

Not having enough to do or being able to find the things to do is WAY more important than the alleged "inability" to find clothes for the library avatars -- which people don't use for long anyway. And again, your sense of this is anecdotal. I have a lot of years of experience and lots of customers and I simply think this is a greater stock of information than you have. And the reason people leave -- or don't stay -- is most often due to relationships gone wrong, and over not finding friends and things to do, not clothing. I have several newbie helper tutorial and freebie places, I have spent many hours helping new people and also returnees who give up, and come back -- then leave again -- and the lack of things to do -- the demand to create your own fun and interest which is only suitable for some kinds of people -- is the biggest problem. Not "how I look".

You keep  harping on how hard it is to find clothes for the starter avatars. Huh? Who keeps them after a week or two? Who is even trying to do this? In a world where for $4.50 you can by a mesh body, and the latest fashion for again, the price of a latte, and less than not just WoW, but most things online (Hulu, or paid Flickr).

I refused to be shamed and browbeaten because I live in the US -- where much of the early Internet was made and big companies like Google and where SL was created. And that's because it's not the point -- there are plenty of Europeans, Australians, Asians, Russians -- everybody. And they spend money such as they have. You don't like the extra $6 of your currency you have to pay to get the Lindens -- but then you have socialized medicine and low-cost transport in your country, too. So this isn't really a discussion about SL, is it? It's a discussion about socialism versus capitalism and the countries associated with those systems. And that's a debate that I seldom find useful to have on the forums with anonymous people who haven't had the experience I have in fact living and working in foreign countries, learning foreign languages, dealing a lot with the UN, etc. so I simply don't accept this browbeating.

Every other country has a higher cost of living? Yet you have free health care, and have you looked at both the huge cost of health care in the US AND the lack of subsidy for it? And yet poor, sick people like me get on Medicaid if we have low incomes or our medicines are expensive enough. So it isn't the horror Europeans imagine. And even Sweden isn't really Sweden as imagined, you know? So that's why this discussion is pretty pointless. You have a set of beliefs and prejudices that are more related to VAT and your high taxes than anything else, not the real cost of a mesh head outside the library. And to that I can only say, tax less, and live like we do? Ok, I rest my case.

No newbie has to spend US $50 on a mesh body; $5000 Lindens is $18.75 in any event. Don't like these costs? You do not require them to be part of the world. Go and be a Dinkie for a mere $450 Lindens, if it comes to that, and pick up all the wonderful freebies.

Call me when you have a valid sociological survey with a 2,000 or higher level of respondents with geographical diversity and ask them about clothing costs and why people leave SL, and I might believe you.

BTW I run at least polls with avatars, which prevent double voting by the same avatar but in a world of alts can't really be valid. But since most people aren't going to bother to go log on alts to answer some poll, they are fairly interest. Over the years I've asked what is most needed for newbies. And what is needed is not tutorials on building, but JOBS. People like to earn their own money. Jobs is the number one answer. Friends is second. Ask people about what they think of the pods on the Linden highways. On the forums, a minority loves and supports them. On surveys inworld, not so much. Many reply that they think they should be removed and declared spam, or at least put in some limited areas -- and so on. So many things are actually not what you think, and what you see on the forums.

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:54 PM, Beth Macbain said:

What a bunch of crap. 

I have a job. i have time for SL. I have time to work. I have time to socialize. I have time to see my family. I have time to do whatever the hell I want. Oh, and I have time for Instagram, too.

Because I know how to manage my time. 

I am not retired (I wish!) or disabled or on a fixed income or unemployed or unemployable. 

I'm an introvert, yes, and anyone who wants to argue with me that there is something defective about being being an introvert can bite my introverted butt. 

And congratulations, @lucagrabacr! I can't wait until Friday!

I'll leave it to you to discover what it missing from your statements about your life, but which was contained in my description of the demographics of SL.

They are what they are, and are not disputed by most people who have a lot of customer contact. If someone breaks out in great umbrage about these truths, it may be because the description applies to them, and they think it is pejorative.

There will be more and more people who are sick or on fixed income or unable to get work due to the coronavirus, and there's no point in being in denial about it. I've been in SL for 16 years now, and all that time I had a family, children to take care of, older relatives, full-time jobs and even additional part-time jobs and church and everything else. But I still spent significant time in SL, and I'm likely to spend even more as I get older and am forced to stay home due to my immune disease. I've made a lot of time to study tech, blog about it, go to various tech meet-ups, go on Twitter, Facebook less, and Linked-in least of all. Instagram is that bridge too far that depends on photographs. Maybe because I signed up to follow a lot of Russian news people and great photographers like Max Avdeyev and I see how my kids use it and so on, I think it's just not for me as I don't want to make and post photos to the scrutiny there. On the other hand, if I go for a walkabout, I post them to Twitter where people like them and don't say much. Now that I'm near my Flickr limit and also we don't have the automatic poster, I probably will cease posting there.

Which brings me back on topic: did the Lindens dump the social media function too hastily, given their marketing plans? You need social media for marketing. It doesn't have to be tied to a real identity. There's no question that when you can't easily snap a screenshot and title and post it right in the viewer, you do far less of this. Firestorm manages to keep this going; the Lindens understandably got frustrated with Twitter's constant changes as well as the others, but maybe they need to reconsider.

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

8 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Prokofy, this is a long post and I am juggling many things right now.

I just want to address a few things in this post briefly.  I said my suggestion for TinyLand is just a suggestion because that is what it is - nothing more than a suggestion nor do I state anywhere what I think a Dinkie should be.  You state a Dinkie should be dignified...I think a Dinkie should be anything it would like to be.  We have "stately" Dinkies like Lords who always dress formally...so there are all kinds of Dinkies.  But, imo, as we all have one, that is cute too.  

Another thing I wanted to say is you mentioned homes with "mesh bounce"...why not just rez a prim and make it invisible to get rid of the "mesh bounce"?

  

FairreLilette, I understand it's just a suggestion, but it's a suggestion I also make a suggestion about -- that it is not necessary. Yes, a Dinkie or any kind of creature should be whatever they like.

But you know and I know that that's not how it works in reality. Dinkies, like other small creatures, have a certain set and widespread culture that many adhere to. Most want them to be cute; most want to talk the baby talk and refer to themselves in the third person at times as it is a role play at heart. And that's fine, but I just find it off-putting and say so.

And sure, people can do what they like except there are always culture police, especially in SL. When I announced I was decorating a tiny house with Dinkie things in the RFL Home & Garden Expo, I had the experience of tenants coming and even seeing one who I didn't know was a Dinkie sitting on the porch and enjoying it -- that was very gratifying.

I had one person come and offer to take me around to the stores and show me the communities and the freebie place which was amazing and was very helpful.

But I also had one forums reg who snipes at me here swoop in and say belligerently, "Now that you're a Dinkie, are you not going to be mean any more?"

As if his notion of behavior and level of criticism tolerated should define what is "nice" and should prevail in Dinkieland.

His idea of "mean" was that I...criticized GTFO -- and rightly so, and in fact-based manner. and with ample evidence. In fact since then, I've only caught GTFO *again* buying land next to me and putting in ad farms at a huge price -- which is a despicable practice. I abuse reported it and also urged that this seller do the right thing and put them at a normal price so that people who actually live on that sim can buy it. He did, and I bought it. And that's because I've been able to make a public issue of it. Given that the Lindens will never do anything about it, we have to use vigorous publicity and commentary to address the ills of our society. That is normal in a liberal democratic society. Your or this forums reg would do no less about Trump. But there is this idea that the Lindens, the Moles, top designers, the FIC, various big companies -- the status quo -- are somehow off limits and beyond criticism and should in fact be adulated. 

Naturally I don't believe that.

I have also discovered a tiny designer who has blocked me from purchases. And that is common in our vicious, low-information/high-prejudice society. I have a number of merchants who do that to me or ban me from their stores not because I'm a griefer or violate copyright, which would be valid reasons, but because they don't like my blog or my forums comments -- which I find really small-minded. Of course, the tiny-minded tiny community rulers -- and it is far from all of them from what I can tell, most are decent -- can enforce their idea of a community and a culture by using such boycotts. And I can and will call them out for this. Of course the forums rules prevent you from naming names, which is actually why it is hard to deter crime and corruption in SL, but that's a long story.

 

 

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

5 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

But therein lies the problem and as I mentioned that is the relative complaint of new users. The avatars are substandard despite any form of upgrading due to the limitations imposed on them from the get go in that clothing is hard to find for them. The marketing reflects one thing but offers an entirely different option.

Whilst yes, you are correct that the whole point of the marketing is to bring in new people, it is not the main area that needs to be looked at and is only one aspect of any marketing campaign. It is the retention (and potential referral) of those users and by all accounts that seems to not be happening. The general consensus is that money is hard to earn in SL for a new user to buy those things to at least get them started and without them having that initial cash they will not stay as they see it instantly as cost prohibitive irrespective of the actual cost. No new person (in any game or software) is instantly going to invest money, however little or large, into a platform straight away to update their look and if the default look doesn't satisfy the expectations that the marketing has hyped they will just leave. After all, SL is a glorified  dress-up and decorating world.

The avatars in the library come dressed. And I see plenty of those avatars in those newbie clothes at events looking for new clothes. Again, buying 1000 Lindens is US $3.75. That's less than a Starbucks latte.

World of Warcraft is $15.99, and plenty of people shell that out without the qualms you describe. Fortnite costs . SL is now $11.99 at the per-month cost. So surely someone can spend that same $15.99 to get the premium, its $300, and then have some left over to buy 1000 or 2000 Lindens.

Fortnite is "free," but you can buy game currency packs for $10.00 and other customization. Good Lord I see something on e-bay called the "Deep Freeze" in Fortnite selling for $3000. 

I don't think it's so much clothing that is at issue. It's "things to do" and how to arrive at your interests, and how to meet people. The circles are very insular in SL.

It's true that money is hard to earn because you can't camp and mine gold the way you can in games. There are a few places like that in SL (still) but have you ever tried them? They are ridiculously hard and time-consuming and beg the question of why you just don't spend the $10.75 on a three-hour wait market buy (which you can do right now) to get 2500 Lindens. That's not enough to get a mesh body, but it's enough to get some clothes and a start.

 

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Not sure, though the concensus I have seen from new user reviews is that the avatars are of poor quality, not realistic looking and generally (at least with the mesh ones) are hard to actually find clothes etc for. All clothing now is made for the popular mesh bodies. Sure, it may fit the poorer quality default avatar body, however there would be issues with this in that you will need to make your own alpha layer, all well beyond the experience of a new user.

 

Oh, I agree that a few generations ago, the avatars were horribly ugly. They looked like drug addicts or zombies -- come to think of it, I think some of them *were* vampires. But they did get better in subsequent rounds to the point where I would put a few of them on alts. 

Here's the thing about your general premise, however. Either you have it be a world like World of Warcraft where the company makes all the content, and the user buys that experience in full, with perhaps only a few minor mods by users, or you have an open-ended world with a market.

The question is really begged, if you have an open market (such has it is, kind of like China or Russia due to currency, media, etc. controls), and you have the company make a lot of content, particularly avatars, are you depriving your customers who are merchants of business? Of course you are! And if you bill this as a world where you can come and create and sell your things, aren't you undercutting it with all kinds of company-made stuff?

To be sure, the lucky creators who got contracts to make things for the Library probably made more than from their inworld business -- but maybe not, especially if they got the flat, low wages of, say, the Moles.  We can't tell as there are no open statistics.

There's also the problem of the FIC, that is, the class of people who receive favours from the company ("the Feted Inner Core", about which I and and others have written reams over the years), and therefore get a boost in the market that others don't have. If I'm the creator who is featured in the Library to a captive audience and on the front page, I get a lot more free advertising than the next guy.

I recall when I once objected to this largesse given to the chosen few -- not just one ad on the splash page but two splash pages even -- that creator howled relentlessly and to this day blocks me from purchasing his products. (I find that one of the most pernicious features of SL, and also stupid, as I can either use an alt or get a friend to buy something I really want).

Nowadays, with the explosion of events, which is really the only effective advertising, it would useful to know whether having a booth at an event (for which you might pay $1000 or $5000 or more) makes more sales or having the Lindens feature you on their front page or in one of their ads or even in the Library.  There is someone who is STILL in the library with a few textures that I bet no one has used in years (they are more likely to use the Spanish tile from the library than those building facades). Why? The Lindens never seem to change the library. 

Since a lot of the thrill of SL is shopping and parading around in your new duds or showing off your kitty or your house, why would you want more in the library that grows dull and static pretty quickly?

I'd rather the Lindens put out content from builds in those communities they built, like Nautilus, where they have done this in some specific areas like marketplaces.

I don't know why they stopped, and for all I know, the residents they hired as Moles demanded they stop as they felt it ripped off their work to spread it so widely.

I suppose the Lindens should give some thought to the idea that if they make a fancy ad with fancy clothes and lure someone in, and it isn't in the library (and it never is), that people have been lured in not realizing they will have to go out and spend the equivalent of US $10 or $20 to get that "look". But again, what is all this for? It's to bring in people and stimulate the economy both for merchants and for the Lab. Most people who bother with SL don't seem to complain that they have to buy $1000 Lindens for US $3.75 and assemble at least a cheap outfit from sales or freebie places. You can do that, after all. If it weren't for "$60 Happy Weekend" I would have no new clothes as I hate shopping and hate dressing up.

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

36 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Perhaps I should clarify. I am well aware and appreciative of the moles and the work they do, however they are a unique situation as far as residents go in that the are paid (albeit very little) for this.

I am also well aware that they have been working tirelessly on various projects especially new housing development. That is not what I meant.

What I meant is actual community representation outside of the moles - without payment or a specific last name. Many users would love any form of request from LL to improve the system etc for free without a specific last name. Many have even offered, but never have been taken up on the offer due to LL policy.

Does LL approach top body makers with a request of a simplified or even slightly poorer mesh body system that allows new users to have a decent body that whilst limited actually looks good that then doesn't make them feel like they are a noob compared to all the top bodies you pay 1000's of Lindens for? No. (I expect incoming "but that will impact on user creation or sales" responses which wont be answered)

Does LL approach a well animator to actually update the inbuilt avatar animations to something decent and then remove the need for new users to even need a hud ao, know what it is or need to know how to use it in an already confusing viewer? No.

Does LL approach mesh content creators to design stuff for the gifts or LL inventory library, of which could be actual useful items and also advertisement for smaller stores? No - Speaking of which the LL library hasn't generally been updated with quality (read decently) items for years.

Does LL approach well known game designers within SL that make awesome experiences to design their starting zone to be fun, adventurous etc to improve on new user retention? No.

Now as I mentioned, the moles are good at what they, however please show me a major advertising campaign that showcases a specific object or city or zone that they have created that has been used as part of the advertisement of SL? Unless they have done this recently with Belliseria then I can assume that you wont be able to. The last I heard about was Insilico which they did to death and LL generally also according to the ToS don't even need permission to go film there to advertise. It was also one of the most unoptimized places within SL and not a good use of advertisement for a new person who would go their and lag.

That is what I meant.

Whilst everyone would agree that the moles are appreciated in what they do and have contributed greatly to Second Life, my faith in them went down slightly the last time I was at Belliseria of which I posted about in a thread previously. When they build Belliseria using old physics tricks around trees instead of proper physics shapes, or with objects that have a higher land impact and download impact than any modern variant on the MP impact to size wise or when homes have 2 layers of objects one with prim and the other with mesh combined together using multiple textures, or use prims and mesh (instead of just mesh) to make a bridge without modern smoothing techniques to remove the awkward hexagonal look etc. then as I said in the previous thread about optimisation, they and LL need to step up their game. I'm sorry to say that but, from what I saw it is true especially with optimisation on everyone's mind.

I fully agree and is why in another thread I even said its wonderful to see LL actually participating in the community again after so long.

I might add though for it to happen, despite all the requests for it over the years, it has taken their (Linden Lab's) entire world to be shaken with the closing of Sansar for us to see this many Linden's posting regularly in a thread.

I believe all the avatars that we see in the library are made by residents, no?

The Bellissaria houses come with packs of content for the houses, i.e. trailer type stuff for the mobile homes.

I wish the Lindens would still offer free content. They could put it on "no transfer" if they fear its re-sale. Copy/mod -- and especially mod should do.

For example there is a drive-through redwood tree in the very newest Linden homes on display at the RFL Home & Garden Dispo. They should offer this for free, as they did with the Nautilus content.

[Last year the selling rate around 253L$:1USD, now L$259:1USD. Is this inflation normal?]

I was sad to have to pay tier recently at 260, it was so stacked up I couldn't hope to set a sell and have it pay for days. I *had* a sell posted at 259 that waited a week and hadn't sold.

I suppose creators can sell more, or lower their prices? I dunno.

I guess that's why the 30L Saturday stuff has proliferated. There are now so many sale events, especially on weekends, that they  have replaced regular shopping. I now stop myself from buying something at a merchant's for $199 because I know if I wait long enough she'll have it on 35L Sunday or Wanderlust or whatever. And that's not good. But they and we have been driven to it.

[I didn't expect this]

Can you please remind me how to make those notices go away -- forever, and ever, amen?

Mine is at 13000 even with a complicated Dinkie get-up. But I don't want to know about this. If I go to a laggy event, I will try to remove the worst jewelry attachments like giant shaman headdresses but de-rendering the other avatars is probably more useful.

[My analysis on how LL's marketing of SL can be even better while simultaneously increasing its cultural relevance]

I noticed the Lindens' marketing post and I thought it was interesting but didn't see any discussion of it right away and didn't have much to add. I'm glad that luca in fact started this discussion earlier, not that the Lab copied him, because they would have to be preparing for weeks/months before publicizing a thing like this.

Many people who have these debates and opinions on this subject don't have customers. Some don't even log in but prefer to chat on the forums. But I do have customers. And the only marketing that has increased their number, or added longer log-ins to their number is the Linden Homes. I find that many people get the Premium for the Linden home, decorate it, then get tired of lag and boredom and limitations and come to my rentals where they can contribute tier, then go back to Linden Homes when there is a new shiny or they feel like it. So it hasn't cut into my business really, and I personally can only welcome anything that increases the number of premium accounts and aids the concurrency and the market.

The pitch for a long time has been to "creators" and "designers" and frankly, I think this leaves most people cold. The front page that says "Start a home" with an adoring couple is probably reaching more people at least in the user base. Does it reach people outside? I actually doubt it. The user base is made up of creatives, sure, but also mainly older women with some disposable income and time and younger men with same, who often end up as partners in SL where they wouldn't in SL. Just watch all the LL videos about couples that met in SL and RL and you will understand that this is the demographic. The people who have the most time for SL are those that are retired or disabled and on a fixed income, unemployed or unemployable, or able to make a living in SL. Nobody likes to think of the SL demographic as the Island of Misfit Toys or Massive RP for Shut-ins, but there's something to that -- and that's actually a good thing. In Europe the population is aging; there are a lot of people under-employed and sick and now forced to stay home due to coronavirus. So rather than seeing this as a negative, embrace it. Sure, there are plenty of ordinary people on SL with jobs and families. In fact, if you see a very successful store with good customer service, you might find it's owned by a woman with a supportive partner and multiple kids that have given her the real experience of management most men never get! 

Still, if you have a RL partner, if you have a job or run a business, like some of my long-time friends in SL or even my own children, you have little or no time for SL. You spend your time on Instagram, of all places. Why? Because you have an audience of your peers there. This is a vicious circle, of course. Like Baron von Munchhausen, SL has to hoist itself up by its pigtail to the skies to launch itself, i.e. you can't find the audience until the audience is there because it believes there *is* an audience. Whew! 

Basically, there are three things people want to do online in general, or in SL in particular: 1) play war 2) play house 3) play store. "Play" is the operative here, as it is not real life, even if you are posting a RL kitty on Facebook, it's an idealized kitty already. People who want "play war" are in the wrong pew in SL because it doesn't have the graphics and speed for it, and it annoys most of the user base. "Play  house" can extend from chatting and posing and blogging and finding a sex partner and setting up a house together. "Play store" is either making and selling or shopping. I find really most people in the demographics I see, which are people who want to rent so admittedly are self-selected from sandboxers and casual dancers, want to "play store", i.e. shop and then "play house" -- decorate and socialize in that house. 

FairreLilette is right that we should really include the decorators of houses as "creatives" in SL although that is not acceptable in the industry. I have seen people make a prim table and pull stuff out of the library they are happy arranging and rearranging even when I offer to give them mesh furniture. The point is that it is "mine" -- people want to control their environment.

Long ago Philip said the attraction of SL -- the lure, the charm -- is that unlike the real world based on atoms, you can manipulate a digital world made of pixels. You can't endlessly buy furniture and re-decorate in RL or dress crazily or fill your house with unicorns but in SL you can, and that's a draw. 

So in that sense what lucar said about "being what you want" as the ad basis could be used more -- but I think the manipulation of the environment, creator or not, is the draw. Showing avatars reaching out their hand with those white power lines coming out and either moving something around or making something move with a script.

BUT I'll be the first to note that the "power decorators" are a minority even among my renters, which is why I have furnished homes. For a lot of people, getting things out of inventory and placing them, especially with the pernicious "mesh bounce" problem, is just too hard. Even just moving around is too hard! I see too many people leave out of frustration, although I still have the impression that the main reason people leave is from a relationship gone wrong. That isn't really LL's job to fix, but they could offer a RL verification service for those who want it.

I don't think you need to insist the Lab develop other separate worlds, as FairreLilette seems to urge with a "Tinyville".  For one, not everybody wants to be in that world in the way you imagine. I recently got some Dinkie avatars and decorated a Dinkie house in the RFL decorating contest, and I enjoyed it and am planning to do more, but I don't want to be "cute". I don't want to talk baby talk -- and as I discover more tenants who also happen to be Dinkies which I hadn't noticed before, I hear they also don't want this saccharine "cuteness" with the "yusss" and the "purkle" stuff. I think Dinkies should be dignified. Certainly there should be room for anyone to take a given sub-genre in any direction they like. And I think with any separate community, whether furries or Goreans, LL doesn't need to be involved unless they violate the TOS. There is nothing to stop you from making your own separate Tinyville with any laws or features you like, on an island or even on the Mainland. It might actually be more successful if people have the freedom to come and go.

Luca made a very good video about cyberpunk. But I have to say this simply doesn't rent. People rent all kinds of things but they don't rent that. I even put it out because I like some of it myself. It's dead. Post-apocalypse also doesn't rent. I put that out -- zero interest. I so loved those JP "Submerged Towers" that I cleared several lots and offered people to rent just the floors or even the whole thing for half a Linden per prim. For months, I watched as I drove away my other tenants, even those with Firestorm and "de-render" (it shows you the limits of de-render when each new guest has to do it). Finally, reluctantly, I took it down, and immediately rented the lots. Then months later, a tenant asked if he could put up one, and I had to scour the areas to find something on the edge of the world that wouldn't drive others away. I am devoted to the Mainland and I won't use Firestorm and will not de-render, for lots of reasons. It's a challenge but I think you have to figure out how to get along with these different views and motivations. LL has enough freedom with islands and huge swathes of abandoned land on the Mainland that you can make any world you like. So make it, and see who shows up. 

PS I found with a "Container Community" offered for cheap with everything from vardos to old trucking containers barely rented and I kept it for years. Finally I got sick of the overprimming and complaining that always comes from the cheapest seats, plus most of it wouldn't rent. I merged the parcels, raised the price slightly, took away the "Container" theme and instantly the whole area was rented by people who wanted more "normal" houses. Boy, do I feel like a chump. I should have done this years ago. Long ago an older man who ran a successful real estate business in SL and was in the aerospace industry in RL was horrified at my cheap newbie areas. "You gotta get out of that," he kept warning me. And he was right. The idea that there are these masses who need cheap tiny living space is -- limited. Yes, some do. But frankly, they are often alts of people with entire islands. It doesn't pay to pitch to the lowest common denominator, I've found. People complain there isn't cheap land; but frankly, even the dirt cheap land available now for less than what they spend on lattes isn't what they buy. They are in a minority. SL is made up of people who spend, first of all on their own avatar, then on homes and vehicles. So accept it. People want picket fences, even though some Lindens and forums regs sneer at this Trumanville. Guess what the Lindens finally made, however....Bellissaria. 

And that's just it. SL is a harsh task mistress on the market. The market doesn't want cyberpunk, apocalypse, even containers. They want suburban lots and Linden Homes. So the Lindens have a winner with that, and they should build on that by reducing the lag and providing structured events because people want them -- they don't games where things are hard to find or giant rocks eat them -- see above re: "play war". They want somebody to organize a picnic and a hoe-down. Truly they do. Bellissaria and the Mole fandom illustrate that.

I think LL should be unabashed about advertising SL as a place to both socialize and hold business meetings during the coronavirus epidemic. Lots of RL things I'm involved in have been cancelled. The pitch to businesses failed earlier because the businesses either wanted to secure their data in SL which is impossible and they shouldn't try (it led to making "Nebraska" and unacceptable things like special stores with select creators to sell only to businesses). Businesses don't expect to secure their data on Twitter or Facebook; it's a marketing tool. So they should see SL as just one more thing. To the extent that this process of going and having a meeting with avatars can be streamlined and packaged as a "try me" cheap package, it should be. But it shouldn't be segregated from the rest of SL or displace the rest of the market. Another reason businesses failed is they didn't make things for avatars. I wept when I lost my precious Microsft-made marshmallows in a big inventory loss -- they were unique. Sears wanted you to buy a washer and dryer in RL, when we had no where to put them. They should have sold them for SL homes. LL should round up those educators and businesses they didn't scare away and get them to tout the immersiveness and effectiveness of meeting online. And why not? 

 

[Last year the selling rate around 253L$:1USD, now L$259:1USD. Is this inflation normal?]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:42 PM, Alyona Su said:

Your logic is flawed. I stopped reading after this line because of it.

You are basing the value of the L$ on the U.S. $ and that is not what I am buying; when I am spending U.S. $ to buy Linden $ then the more Linden $ I get per $1 U.S., then that is a higher value of that $1 U.S.

Important distinction: When trading L$, the value is placed in the L$ - the source of the trade for you wen buying U.S. $. The opposite is true when trading U.S. $ for Linden $; the value for the source is the U.S $.

This is simple-simony arithmetic: The more you get for your trading currency, the higher value that trading currency is.Or do you shop for a new [name anything] and choose the value your purchase based on how much profit the seller is making, or how much you save when acquiring it? So, you'd rather pay $1 for 5 M&Ms because the M&Ms are where the value is, rather than getting 10 M&Ms for the same $1? I don't ever what to go shopping with you. Anyone with half a care (Governments notwithstanding) will always budget themselves and attempt to get the best value they can for their purchase.

This is why there are two trading levels on the exchange: a "trading zone" - People buying L$ want as much as they can get for each U.S. $ and vice-versa for those wanting sell L$ for  U.S. $. You say you want to sell only L$10 for each $ U.S.? Fine, but I'll buy from the person selling L$11 per $ U.S. - fortunately the system automatically adjusts for this.

When I buy L$, I am buying from those who want $ U.S. really fast and willing to spend more L$ to get it (I am selling U.S.$). When you want as much $ U.S. as you can get, you are selling to people who want L$ right now (I am selling L$). In both cases, the value is in what I am selling. The more I can get for each count of what I am selling, the higher the value of what I am selling is.

It is fortunate that there are both types and that the system safeties ensure we each get the maximum for our trade.

This is how it works in SL; this is how it works in RL.

Do yourself a favor, stay away from the LindeX, you might get burned.

I can't believe you're saying this. It's completely solopsistic, as if the external world doesn't exist. An illusory dollar that buys you more Lindens becomes a "more valuable" dollar subjectively only to you -- whoever heard of such a thing!

The dollar isn't worth *more* because I can buy MORE of a currency; it's worth more when I can buy LESS of a currency.

A simple example is the Russian ruble, as can be seen on charts like this. It's often analyzed as tied to the price of oil as you can see here. Ask a Russian who has to take 66  units of his currency to get one dollar, when 20 years ago he could take 20 units of his currency -- he has less of his paycheck. When he has to spend more rubles to buy a dollar, he has less rubles and his currency is worth less. 

You're confusing the value of the currencies themselves with your subjective need to have the experience of getting more Lindens per dollar. That may be a more valuable state of affairs for you, but it's not making the currency intrinsically more valuable, that's absurd. In fact, now merchants who work hard and make things and try to cash out their Lindens get less dollars for their trouble; their paycheck is less.

Generally people analyzing this have pointed to the flood of Premium Account stipends of $300 per account. This is like printing money. The Lindens control the Linden value and could adjust this and do adjust this. But at times when they want people buying more content, like all the add-ons and things for the Linden homes, they want users to feel flush with cash so they haven't bothered to straighten this out. 

Merchants will continue to complain, especially about higher fees, and eventually the Lindens will have to adjust this.

But again, no way in RL does it work that you value the dollar more that requires more units to buy, say, a euro. 

[Uploading Sound Files]

I heard that the Lindens were moving up from a limit of 9.5 seconds on sound files to 30 seconds. But I can't seem to find an official notice of this. Did they?

Meanwhile when I was trying to upload some poetry and a tune (wav files) in recent weeks, I got an error file that says the files cannot be longer than 30 seconds in length -- as if that is indeed their new maximum size.

Since the file in question was exactly 30 seconds, I couldn't figure out why this didn't work, when it was in the proper format.

So I tried 29 seconds -- that didn't work, either. So it's still on 9.5 is it?

I have gone through many hours struggling with Audacity that work, and I will tell you the steps I have learned to take in part from Whirly and in part from trial and error, in case you know anything different:

1. Change the file from m4 to wav files using online converters (if from a YouTube video, for example).

2. Make sure you set your project in Audacity to 44100 Hz or SL can't accept it.

3. Go to the top left of the screen on the file and push the arrow down to "Split Stereo to Mono"

4. Delete the second copy of the file.

5. Select the whole file and go to "Effect" and select "Amplify" -- I do this because many files I have uploaded, especially of people reading poetry or literature, are just too low volume, even pushed to "1" on the player script. I select in the range 11-13 because beyond that, it gets so loud it is distorted. You can then go back on the player script and adjust down from "1" to ".9" or something but I was informed that loudness or too-softness has to be fixed in Audacity before the upload. This is not ideal. Maybe someone has some more refined suggestions.

6. Now you can go in several directions:

   a. the arduous (and I find painful and error-ridden) of hand-cutting the files into 9 or 9.5 segments using "Edit" and "Clip Boundaries" and "Split". At least in doing this, you can get rid of noise if you took something from a noisy RL room or something, and do other things. It's pretty hard for me, however.

   b. the also error-prone method of using "File" and "Import" and "Labels". Here you need to first make a notepad file with the time stamps listed in it then import that file and that will make the job chop up automatically according to the time stamps you set.  You have to check and double check that the list you make doesn't have any math errors in it that mess up the whole project -- so it's 9.5, 18, 27.5 etc. in a table form (and for some reason online I found examples of this showing the tables doubled up, i.e. in two rows on the notepad file). If you have made an error, you get a message that Audacity can't read some of the labels; it will still work but when you try to listen to it, it will stop and skip at some file, then return to the first file, causing you to have to re-do everything and pay the upload fees again. It amazes me how you can make mistakes on this again and again even using a calculator because you get weary typing.

  c. a much, much easier way I just stumbled on (I am a slow learner) where you go to "Tools" and "Select Regular Intervals" which makes the "labels" or cut-up files for you automatically, obviously with no math errors. The one pitfall here for dummies, as I can tell you from experience, is that you have to roughly figure out how many labels you will need, then listen to then, and possibly have to go back and re-do it, and then make sure that whatever last file you have isn't 'the rest' of the file, i.e. more than 30 seconds, but only 9.5 seconds. SL won't upload files chopped up with no sound on them, or, as noted, files that are too long. On some scripts, if it is under 9.5, you would have to note that it is, say, "4" or it messes up again in terms of skipping and starting over.

This is a pretty beastly business -- and costly, with those $10 uploads. You have to really want to do the thing, like add poetry being read aloud to a scene or something. You can also just put a URL linker into a prim and it will take someone who clicks online to a YouTube or a literary page. Of course, that isn't as "immersive", but ask yourself: how many people are going to click on a prim in SL to listen to Wallace Stevens reading "Idea of Order at Key West" or the Ultimate Spinach's "Mindflowers," a song lost in time for sure.

Answer, as I can tell you from making these builds: not many. Do not expect to make back your upload cost in tips or sales. One issue is that if there is a media stream already running a sim, it drowns out other things making sounds like this. You have to make sure your parcel doesn't have media, and/or if does, instruct the visitor to turn off the option "steaming media' in preferences. How many will do that? Again, I have answers for you from running these sites for years: not many LOL.

I mean, if you have a burning desire to listen to Otava Yo (which I do) while sitting on your SL sim, why can't you just...go to YouTube and turn it on and listen to it on your headphones. You can then even leave your sim and fly around the ocean and continue to listen to this tune stolen from Caucasians by Russians who can't dance (although the video is pretty cool).  Why sit for HOURS chopping it up, even if to 30 seconds if the Lindens have that now, listening to it inevitably skip or short out due to lag or whatever, when you can...just go to YouTube. Soon you will wonder: why sit in SL when I can sit in my RL living room with my RL friends lol?

Of course, there's the issue of copyright, too. It's one thing to upload these files to make a reference inworld, which is no different than a link on a web page, really. It's another to make up a box of it and sell it, unless it is in the public domain. The reality is that the cost of uploads are high, the work painstaking and poor quality, so I think few people bother with this.

And really, the era of listening to a discrete song as some kind of discrete entity that you like and learn and play over and over is past, no? At least, I find that with my kids. Most young people have "playlists" these days and streams from some device or another that...streams. They think in terms of "my wake-up energy playlist" of 10 songs, not "this one song I like".  You can play a song again by clicking on it on YouTube or Spotify -- but since you have access to zillions of songs, why not listen to another one? I don't think people listen to a song as a separate thing the way they used to.

So, you say, there is media on a prim! Put the YouTube into media on a prim or a YouTube player. Answer: these players often don't work because of issues between SL and YouTube of the type that are between Twitter and Flickr which caused the Lindens to stop offering this option of posting to social media from SL. Media on a prim is ok, but clunky. It has a way of jerking your view to itself. Also, you can't keep it running. Even if you have autoplay turned off on your own YouTube account on your computer, in SL, it will autoplay. You can't get it to play and stop or just play on a loop. No, the URLs people have devised to make things loop just don't work (any more).

So in that sense, if you task is to create an ambiance on a build for an expo (as I'm doing for RFL Home & Garden now or as I have done at the SL birthdays in the past), and you put up video on a good YouTube player (there are some conscientious makers who keep up with the frustrations) or "media on a prim," chances are it will stop playing or some other completely different song will be on when you come back hours later.

So in that sense a prim box with the audio files in them chopped up, that play with a loop script or on/off script is just that much better. How many visitors will care? Answer: not many.

 

[Sometimes I Despair of the Mainland]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:27 AM, ChinRey said:

The problem for sailors isn't ban lines as such, it's unmarked ban lines and also the "broken" waterways like the one sim in the Sansara-Heterocera channel that was sold off, the mess of public and private water along the east coast of Sansara and this mindboggling example of a 4 m long private stretch between two large bodies of public waters.

And the problem with mainland as a whole are overkill "solutions" like that ugly sign the OP showed us. It's a textbook example how relatively small issues are escalated into major conflicts (and eyesores).

There's never going to be any ban lines along the Windermere-Coniston-Langdale coast as long as I own the area but we do have a sim edge there and also of course sim borders and they cause similar problems. Here's my solution:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/mesh-navigational-buoys-boxed/6354579

and

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/SIM-CROSSING-BUOY-2/3567682

 

 

Exactly.

I hadn't seen that mind-boggling one before. Yeesh!

There's a stretch of the river in Keuka that is now impassable because of no-access lines and the Lindens have refused to terraform down their land there in this narrow passage to make it navigable again. I understand that they have to take a "what was done for one might have to be done for all" on these cases. But actually, are there really so many -- so many that people will file a ticket about? -- that they couldn't act to fix some of these really awful situations?

 

[Sometimes I Despair of the Mainland]

On 1/15/2020 at 4:09 AM, belindacarson said:

Always public roads for vehicle users, Public waterways for sailing, and open airspace for fliers.

 

 

Yet still moaning about people who pay for their small part of SL who want their privacy.......................

If only this were entirely true. But it isn't.

The Lindens did not carve out public waterways with an eye to preventing conflict in the future.

There are far too many areas that were sold out that are in odd places -- the middle of lakes, parts of rivers, etc.

So there might be Linden water -- but then it might be interrupted by resident land because of this poor demarcation.

Also some people have security orbs with distances set high so that they nab you just for passing on Linden water.

[Sometimes I Despair of the Mainland]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:14 PM, Rufferta said:

Last night I was exploring an historic Mole Build, and I saw this huge sign on the edge of an adjoining sim.  When I flew closer to see what the sign was protecting a teleport orb gave me a 15-second warning. It made me sad to think how many new residents, exploring the Mainland, had probably run into something like this. I'm used to it by now.

When I checked for the owner, and started to add a note on their profile, I saw that I had been stuck on a ban line* on one of his properties in Corsica a few days before - again, the owner was within his rights, but this was in a narrow public sailing channel, and the banline (while on the edge of their property) was a few meters from an obvious property barrier. I did IM suggesting that the owner put up a marker buoy, but I'm not holding my breath for a response.

I love the Mainland, and I'm not leaving it, but sometimes I despair...

*experienced sailors probably know this, but I found that I could get out of the banline by editing my sailboat and moving away, then restarting it. 

 

Awful. Not only does he have the orbs, but he blights the view with this ugly sign. You wonder why he doesn't just get a private island if this is his attitude toward the world.

I really wish people who insist on ban lines, which of course are "within their rights," would create an easement of 16 or 32 m on their waterside properties. They could cut out a parcel that has no ban lines or orbs. That way you could pass more easily. If they put out a tip jar for doing this, I would donate to it in gratitude. Then they could ban the rest of their lot.

Yes, I realize, that a lot of orbs might not be set so precisely as to *not* cover a 16 or 32 m easement. But the worst offenders are those with no-access or list-only sort of ban lines which don't even allow the 10 or 15 seconds that an orb might allow. So it's especially for those people that I think the easement idea would be a good neighbourly solution.

[Looking to rent office space]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:48 AM, Ohrmm said:

Looking for a place to rent an Office space in a modern village/mall type sim. Don't know where to begin my search for something like this. Any help would be greatly apperciated.

 

Thank you,

 

I have storefronts for rent on the plaza in Refugio.

I also have a great office skybox I can put out for you on many lots where management prims don't count. IM me for details. Or visit the office and see the latest listings.

 

[Road trip]

I often see people on road trips driving around the Moth Continent (Heterocera). Sometimes alone, sometimes in packs. There aren't that many of them; there are a million more of those unpiloted pods cluttering up the roads. But there are some, and sometimes they stop and talk to me. Some of them are tenants in my camps. I think there is actually a fair-sized population of people in SL who do road trips, either solo and sporadically or more organized in groups. 

I think if you just set out on the highway, you will find them!

[Harry's Gallery in Alleni]

This used to be a favourite place of mine in the Grote and Hector Lakes region and I always featured it in my "Area Attractions".

The artist with a roadside gallery had a variety of innovative and whimsical items which I purchased over the years. One was a sort of live captain's table with the ocean pouring over it. Other things were sort of like Marcel Duchamp, a bicycle or a paper clip that was actually a fly -- although that doesn't quite capture it. There were sort of wiry things and wooden things (I'm not describing this very well but they were cool).

Now, all of a sudden I discover this parcel has been abandoned, I can't remember the artist's first name (maybe it wasn't even Harry) and I can't find the things in my inventory, where I suffer losses often.

So if any of this rings a bell, let me know.

This was the old SLURL

 

[conned out of lindens]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:45 AM, Hoops Boa said:

Hi whats the best way to deal with this, i was recently conned out of 1000 lindens which is not a lot but how can I get it back? I did report the player is kind of thing dealt with?

It depends on the way in which you were conned. If you were promised a good or service or land at a certain price, Linden Lab will not get involved as per their TOS, it's a user-to-user dispute that you will have to deal with on your own. If they gave you some object that started debiting your Lindens, well, that's why they have a warning saying that objects do that and don't say "yes" to them. If, for example, they said they work for Linden Lab and for $1000 they will do something for them, that might get their attention.

You can always try abuse-reporting them but it's awfully hard to get attention to such reports especially if they are a business dispute rather than an actual theft. If you gave your password to someone, that's on you, and itself is a violation I believe. So you lost $3.75, less than the cost of a latte, it's not worth being upset for long. The advantage of an abuse report is merely that it builds up a record in case there's a lot of people being scammed by this person.

[Exchange rate is now over L$270 / US$1.00. How high will it go?]

30 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Note that I said "most."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/most

And for the poster who said they were getting L$5000 for $8.00 and change, the exchange rate would have needed to be over 555 Lindens/dollar.

Try looking for tooltips...

So again, because this "tool tip" seems to have eluded you:

It's also obvious that when you have that compressed of a graph over 15 years that you can't tell how long the peaks and troughs are, really. 

[Exchange rate is now over L$270 / US$1.00. How high will it go?]

 

 

7 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

That would have been a freak spike. This link shows the historical Linden exchange rates since 2005 (hit the "All" button under the graph.) There is one line in 2008 over 325 but it dropped back down immediately.

https://secondlife.com/my/lindex/market.php

I'm glad to see that you admit now that your claim "The exchange rate has been a few Lindens either side of 250 for most of Second Life's history" is wrong. The graph illustrates this. It doesn't matter if 325 is a "freak spike" because there are other bad patches that last along time and have a terrible effect.

It's also obvious that when you have that compressed of a graph over 15 years that you can't tell how long the peaks and troughs are, really. But don't let the facts get in the way of your usual desire to say something to counter me, even if the sky is blue. I'm going to try to figure out the "block" on here again.

[Exchange rate is now over L$270 / US$1.00. How high will it go?]

23 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Hmm. We agree that market buys are filled by limit sell orders, and market sells are filled by limit buy orders. In my mental model of the LindeX, though, the majority of sales are limit orders (and the corresponding majority of buys are market price, much of it through the viewer or Marketplace) and those limit sales are by both private sellers and Supply Linden. I sorta figure the Lab sets a target exchange rate and keeps adding a few million L$s for sale at that rate as demand uses up the queued sales at that price. Some private sellers will undercut the target by a point for a sale quicker than waiting for the backlog to clear at the current best selling price. And some, apparently, will be desperate enough (US$ tier due?) to take the spot market, otherwise our limit buy orders would never fill. I do not think Supply Linden makes those spot market sales -- it just seems too labor intensive to maintain the desired exchange rate -- but I don't think I can prove it.

Somebody who understands Over The Counter markets could explain what determines the Bid / Ask spread. Worst case, I could read some Finance, I suppose.

Now I have to admit I hadn't read Lucia's comment correctly, and I'd never seen such a huge gap within the limit order prices. But just as I was typing this, I saw a smaller but similarly silly gap on the Buy side:

I mean, even if one were trying to launder money, what would be the point of skipping L$269 and L$268? It's not as if the L$267 order was somehow "left over" when those better prices were filled because there'd be no way to fill them as long as the better price were available to sellers. It's a tiny lot, so probably just a screw-up... but even if it were a huge order, I'm not seeing how it could effectively move the market. That doesn't mean it's impossible, though.

In ancient times, a Linden named I believed "TJ Linden" who was a RL economist and monitored the LindEx would explain policy to us. I assume that the Lindens have someone at least part-time like that thinking about what it means to have Premium account dollars flooding the market and lowering the value of THEIR currency, after all. Or do they? I can understand why they'd be mostly preoccupied with fraud and perhaps not thinking of the macro issues?

[Exchange rate is now over L$270 / US$1.00. How high will it go?]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:10 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

I don't think you're remembering things accurately. The exchange rate has been a few Lindens either side of 250 for most of Second Life's history.

That's not true whatsoever. I have InfoNut issues and blogs going back for years and I just ran across one from 2008 lamenting how the Linden stood at 325.