Daniel Regenbogen

What if RL is repeating itself in SL? If the echo's of RL are making waves in SL? What for would we need a second life when the stupidity and ideology from RL is taking over? When LL more and more caters and bows to those who are on a crusade against anything they can't (and don't want to) understand in RL already?

It is not funny but sad: behaviour that is rightfully frowned upon, like camming underneath a skirt or dress, becomes totally fine when it is targeting the "right" group of people. Once again putting the responsibility on the victim instead of going for the real perverts. I'm sure you also welcome adults standing infront of RL school bathrooms for gender checks. And the full-bearded man who went into a women's bathroom to show that there is a problem with men invading women's bathrooms is a fighter for women's rights.

What's the problem? I was told here that "everything that makes it a tiny bit harder for the pedos is great" - my solution would make it not a tiny bit harder but extremely. Consequences for all those innocent of any wrongdoing? Who cares! Of course the AI would not have the last say, the actual action against those who get caught would still be take by the governance team. At least for now...

Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it. And it is very fair, it targets *all* residents. When some keywords are triggered, the AI will check the appearance of the involved residents. I'm sure it will make those happy who say "Every little step to make it harder for those perverts is great.". Hm, LL could bundle it with some social scoring. Someone helps a newbie? Give him some points. Someone runs an inworld charity? Give him some points. Someone encroaches a neighboring parcel with trees? Take away some points. If you have lots of points, you get some goodies. If you have a negative number, you get suspended for a day. China is doing that in RL, so why not try it out in SL?

The point is to make people and maybe even some Lindens thinking again about a) what they want to accomplish, b) what side effects it has and c) if it leads to what they want at all. This is an open forum, so deal with people having other opinions than you. LL's rules are not fixed in stone, so there *is* a chance that some real thinking might happen, that this "Let's do something just for being able to say that we did something." might not be the last word. As the one who came up with the idea of Kids5B as answer to the kid avatar ban at SL5B I know that even LL sometimes takes things back after realizing that they are contra productive. The "real kid avatars" were always some of the most anti-pedo groups, just out of the need to protect themselves against prejudice and knee jerk reactions by LL. But once again they are targetted, by rules that are doing *nothing* to get rid of pedos.

No, it isn't. It is something forbidden now, but it still isn't doing anything adult. Walking down a street isn't an adult action. Fixing a rental box isn't an adult action. Shopping (for non-adult items) isn't an adult action. Heck, skinny dipping isn't an adult action. It feels more and more like "Moms for Liberty" have taken over the policy making.

Yep, works well in countries like China or North Korea. East Germany, too, but in 1989 those idiots decided to get rid of the communist dictatorship and even tore down the Wall...

No, they don't. Not a single pedophile with at least one working brain cell will be discovered by these new rules. On the other hand lots and lots of kid avatars who don't do anything illegal will be affected. But hey, LL did something! Doesn't matter if it is reasonable and useful.

Thing is: these new rules have nothing to do with kids promoting sexual activities or behaviour. If LL were going after that, I would be totally in their corner. This is more like "Oh, someone made a stunk, we need to come up with something. Doesn't matter if it really does something good, we just need to be seen as someone who cares."

For being close enough to be in a picture when a well-known agent provocateur in adult form showed up and approached them in his birthday suit with a giant erection. He claimed to fight against pedos ... he was gone quickly, but also a few of the kids. Who appealed but never were allowed back, last message from LL was "case closed". I guess I was lucky that I was a bit too far away.

That's what they claimed all along - but when it involved kid avatars it so far was more like "shoot first and never ask questions later".

I hope I'm allowed to question the reason and the result behind this requirement. It is as useful and justified as it would be to require avatars to wear thermal underwear when visiting a winter region. My business nowadays is more charity than anything else, giving friends a home at cost. And while I'm not online that much anymore, so far I keep it running because I don't want to kick them out. There might be a time when SL becomes too hostile to "my" community - that will be the time when I will pull the plug. It's not like this is the first ill-targeted witch hunt in my many years in SL. Reminds me too much of SL5B, when LL decided to "keep the kids hidden" and forbid their participation.

Adult rating simply means that adult activities are allowed - not that they actually take place all or even most of the time (except really sex related areas). And once more: there are many adult rated regions that have nothing adult on them - owners just want to be on the safe side (a reaction to another witch hunt years ago). And I explained about the store topic already, but for you I will do it again. If I for example want to check out totally-non-adult furniture or animations, that are sold in totally different corner of a region that is rated adult because in some area there *is* adult stuff available, I can't do that. If I want to buy for example a teen bedroom for *my* avatar, I want to check it out with *my* avatar to see if it actually works the way I like it.

And I'm totally fine with fighting such actions. On the other hand most European countries are much more open about things like nudity, age of consent, drinking age and stuff like that. Maybe I'm so unhappy about this new witch hunt because I grew up in such a place. Makes me wonder where this US american "land of the free" comes from.

Normcore for what? For seeing things that are not there?

Child and teen avatars should not do adult things, it's really that simple. Just being somewhere is *not* doing anything adult.

The creepy ones are the people like you. Again, makes me wonder what is going on in your mind. You're definitely someone who should be kept away from real kids.

Do you put modesty patches on RL kids, too? Hm. Mormon underwear? But I think even Mormons take off their kids's clothes in the appropriate situations.

Once more: why should that be necessary? Because some people are not able to see differences in behaviour? Makes me wonder what is going on in these peoples minds. Reminds me of the old saying of "He who sees the naked human body as something dirty and to be hidden must have a really dirty mind himself.".

Yes, and therefore a stupid point to act on. There is a difference between a naked kid dancing on a pole in a club - and one splashing in the water on a nude family beach. But if I re-enacted my totally innocent and sexfree RL kid summer fun in SL I would be punished for that.

There simply is no need to change as long as behaviour is prosecuted and not appearance. And I didn't talk about trying out adult animations, if I would do that it would be a good and real reason for punishment. I was talking about trying out kids animations/furniture and being punished for simply being in the same store that in some other area has adult stuff. Or for being on a region that is rated adult but has no adult stuff on it at all.

Well, then find the evidence first. That would actually follow the most basic rule of judgement: not guilty until proven. There are many adult rated areas that have none or next to none adult stuff on site. A corner for sexbeds in a furniture store. Animations in an animation store. Not to forget the places which were set to adult "just to be on the safe side" by their owners. And I'm not talking about "real" adult shops, bars or clubs. Remember the good old days of video rental shops? They often had an adult area where kids were not allowed - and many others areas where kids were free to roam. Or nude (family) beaches - I grew up on them. Nothing sexual ever happened there - the beach goers themselves took care of that. I'm all for judging actual actions - but not for judging simple appearance.

The question is: why should I have to do that? To visit a furniture store that in one corner has sex beds? An animation store that in one corner has sex animations? In other corners they have child furniture/animations that I would like to try out with my normal avatar and size (for which I would be shopping)? There are many adult rated places that only have some areas that really have adult content - why not just keep child avatars away from exactly those areas? Years ago many region owners switched to adult just to be on the safe side out of fear of being reported for a nothingburger. Especially with governance following the principle of "shoot first - never ask questions later" as soon as child avatars are involved. And wasn't it once "Your world - your imagination"? SL being the place where for example I can be a 14yo landlord which I couldn't be in RL. Creating and selling stuff which I couldn't do in RL.

Welcome to a nice mix of Absurdistan and Prudistan. Once more not the dirty deed is punished but the pure idea that something dirty *could* happen. Bowing once more to the real perverts - those who see a child avatar and the very first (and last) thought is: SEX! Now as landlord I can't simply visit a homestead of my customers because it is set adult - not even to quickly fix the rental box or help with some terraforming issues. As a creator I can't visit for example an animation store because the region it is on is set to adult, because they (amongst hundreds of others) they sell a couple of adult animations, too. I now have to first switch to a different avatar or push the size slider to the max. The overwhelming majority of child avatars doesn't do anything wrong - but they are once more punished for the actions of a minority (which still will do what they want). And a (for example) 14yo avatar is forbidden from doing things an RL 14yo would be in full right to do. Meanwhile murder, slaving, torture and so on are totally fine in SL.

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