Jenni Darkwatch

There are a few "prim swimming" HUDs out there. Technically, we can't swim in SL water either, also requires a HUD or other scripting to do that for us.

I've just had a look at the latest CHUI viewer, it doesn't crash on 12.04 64bit but has the same problems the other viewers do on 12.10 and newer, regardless of 32bit or 64bit. This was on fresh installs, fully patched.

Look at the first post, second pasted crash.

It shouldn't crash with the regex error on startup _unless_ show favorites on login screen is selected. Unfortunately as for the underlying problem I don't know if LL is working on it, at least I've not heard anything anywhere from LL even acknowledging the problem. The libfontconfig issue is fixed in the latest dev viewer, I haven't bothered to check the LL beta/official viewer yet. Even with this fix the viewer is more or less unusable since it crashes practically as soon as you want to do anything in-world: Click on the address bar=crash. Send L$ to someone=crash. Go to Properties->Advanced=crash, look at notecard=crash... etc etc. For reference, I've tried it on 12.10 32bit and 64bit as well as 13.04 alpha 32bit on different hardware, clean install, all patched up, 32bit libs installed where needed.

Yes it would. The question was how to let the critter know. Personally, I prefer re-using existing protocols, and RLV came to mind because it's exactly that: a remote control protocol. The HUD does exactly that. It gets the coordinates by one of two means: Stargate Event Horizon or RLV. Both work, though I noticed I didn't quite implement the RLV part right since I worked off a Stargate script to get the RLV bit - it's missing the "I'm here!" parts which seem to confuse some control HUDs into thinking there's no relay. Technically they're right: there isn't, but that failure prevents teleports occasionally.

That was the part that wasn't quite clear to me. I know how RLV relays communicate with the viewer, and that _only_ relays communicate with the viewer. Most of the RLV protocol makes little sense on objects anyway, though I wondered if it would be possible to assert control over free-roaming pathfinding critters that way. I.e. send a broadcast, have the critter respond, send a simple force-tp RLV command to get the critter to heel etc.pp. - in essence subverting existing RLV control HUDs to be able to somewhat control NPCs as well. Since the detection method seems to be targeted-only and not a region broadcast, this won't work. If it _were_ possible to get all open relays in a region, the idea would have worked (unless RLV itself has a safeguard of sorts to prevent exactly that kind of behavior). Either way the code helps me get some doors to be RLV-aware and hopefully more compliant. I already have a HUD that does indeed allow force-TP of an avi even without a RLV client by implementing a subset of RLV, but it doesn't properly act as a relay yet - it's non-discoverable.

Thank you kindly, that does answer the question. It also answers another one... it seems that the relay must be worn, and consequently also means rezzed objects (i.e. scripted pets, to give one example) can't be "controlled" via RLV commands.

Odd problem :) I never used RLV nor do I have a RLV capable viewer. In essence I wonder if it's possible to create an object to behave like a RLV-enabled client, to a point. For that I need to figure out what the accepted way to detect "open" relays is. As a sidenote I'm also trying to improve a few objects I've created a while ago to comply better with the RLV relay specification. From what I gather at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Relay/Specification I'm guessing the !version query is what I'm looking at to detect if an avatar has an open relay?

If you own the parcel you can deed it, just make sure to check "user makes contribution with deed" or whatever it's actually called.

Jer, I created a HUD a long time ago that's responding to TP requests from Stargates and from RLV objects. That does get around the issue of having to ask permission, as the object retains the owner's permission. It's free, fullperm and comes with a "do whatever you want with it" license, if you'd like I'll send it to you.

To questions, wasn't in the mood to pollute the forums with two threads :) 1) Pathfinding does not seem to work under water. Correct? 2) I seem to be unable to view the navmesh on Mainland sims. I.e. going to Build->Pathfinding->Vew/Test does nothing, regardless what checkboxes I select. Am I doing it wrong?

If at all possible I'd suggest having your laptop looked over. The fix might be as easy as just reinstalling Windows.

Good question. To me the spec doesn't necessarily indicate that the color (tint) gets entirely ignored, but to be honest I'd imagine if materials get applied to a surface, old tricks probably will break in more or less unpredictable ways. On the other hand, if the material system materializes (pun intended), a lot of old trickeries might not be needed anymore anyway.

looks to me like a problem with the OpenGL driver for your card... libGL error: failed to load driver: i965 indicates that you have an integrated graphics card? Is that correct?

Erm... remoting in to your Windows box isn't anything new... why not use the native Android viewer Lumiya instead?

Land Barons will scream about anything that impinges on their elevated status and competitiveness. It's a no-win situation for LL.

When Rod started, he seemed very communicative. Now... well, look at Rods SL profile: https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden I don't expect SL to do anything but decline. Products come and go. Even behemoths like Facebarf and Twatter will fade sooner or later, it's how the world works. SL faces a changing world. So far I see no indication of LL being willing or interested in dealing with that. On the plus side, Rod does seem to be very interested in actually fixing stuff, long standing issues included. Considering that the "fix this" list is long, it'll take a few years at least to catch up. And the reality of software development dictates that new bugs will be introduced, slowing down progress even more.

Color me baffled, the thing even works under Ubuntu 12.10 (64bit, haven't tried 32bit yet). It still crashes occasionally but at least it doesn't crash off the bat with font problems. Giving it a whirl right now to see where else it bombs.

I'm no a lawyer of course, but isn't there a cutoff where basically a court can decline "trivial" cases, i.e. when theres miniscule financial damages?

I totally agree that LL should respond better to ARs - including what conclusion they come to and why. The current "we won't tell ya one way or another" is unacceptable. With the DMCA process LL already has a procedure in place to take things to a RL court. Of course, with most such cases RL courts won't even take the case. So what's LL supposed to do? Blatantly ripped content is often easy enough to spot. Copied content, i.e. rebuilt from scratch as a close look-alike however isn't, and who is to say that the content was indeed copied in such a case? As an example, I recognized one creator using templates for a (simple) build, selling it for a large amount. I liked the idea, so I bought the templates and recreated the build more or less. Of course, since I don't sell anything it won't hurt much, but what's LL supposed to do there? Whether I broke any law or not is in this case very debatable. There's two ways to solve the dilemma of griefers: Give residents better tools to deal with the run-of-the-mill idiots. Even without knowing the details of SLs back-end, adding the ability to ban by IP or even domain would be trivial and can be done without violating privacy. The common particle/script/whatever attacks would also be easy to stop - IF land owners had any kind of real control over who visits and what visitors can actually do: Prevent rendering of objects/particles that don't belong to the land owner or group Mute people who aren't in the land group (or flat out support an IRC-style moderation/voice flag) Provide some real tools to limit impact of worn or vehicle scripts, i.e. ressource limits Provide better tools to figure out whose particles are visible and where they come from (there are some - hidden deep in the viewer bowels) Similarly provide an easily accessible script list with details like creator, ressource use, certain stats like "is listening", "has webserver" etc.pp. Mesh I think is a good thing for SL. It would be better if there were any plans to at least provide simple mesh manipulation in-world. Nothing like blender of course, just basics so it's not limited to the few people who know how to make mesh. That your mesh sales are going well doesn't surprise me. You do create good meshes, unlike a lot of clothing/accessory makers who more or less contribute to the bad rep of mesh by creating horribly inefficient meshes lagging every viewer in the vicinity to hell and back.

IMO it's a mixed bag. Some good points, some bad points, some that totally miss the obvious. The good point (and reiterated ad nauseum) is clearly LLs fairly abysmal relationship with its users. To be fair, I never had many problems with LLs customer service. The few times I needed it, it was swift, accurate and helpful. On the other hand, LL communicates changes, problems and general ideas/plans so badly with its users that it's almost like LL really _does_ hate its user base. Point in case: Closing the JIRA. Yes I understand that the JIRA comments were pretty much dorky bitchfests. Hiding the entire JIRA however... I honestly don't feel the need to submit bug reports anymore. A proper bug report is a lot of work and I sure as hell don't want to put in the work if I don't know whether or not it's a known issue or not. The moot point is griefers. Unfortunately for us, LL cannot stop griefers. It could make life a lot more difficult for those asshats though. We all know it, LL probably knows it too - and again doesn't communicate why it pretty much does nothing. The non-SL example of griefers that seem unstoppable are those "Anonymous" punks and their braindead supporters. Or more RL, the lobotomized Westboro Baptist Church terrorists. Bad point is RL law: If we really would want LL to enforce RL law, we'd demand LL to be judge, jury and executioner. That's not their job. In the broadest sense, LL is a carrier. They have to act on law enforcements orders, and that's it. If someone steals content, LL _can_ act, but it's rarely easy or straightforward to track cunning culprits. Even the easier targets aren't as easy on closer inspection: Ok, let's say LL deals with blatant copyright infringers. Should they then also act on inter-resident disputes like the all-too-common fraud in SL? What about clear ripoffs of RL trademarked graphics? What about the so-called DJs who play their pirated MP3-collection in SL? The numerous predators in SL? Where does LLs responsibility start and where does it end? Even worse point is the idea that SL would proliferate and prosper with better marketing. SL is a dinosaur. Its technological abilities are so far behind, they'll probably never ever catch up. Some of the underlying tech is flawed beyond repair. To be fair, LL is working to get it up to more modern standards - against the will of very vocal detractors who would like SL to stay with its old tech, thank you very much. Mesh is a case-in-point. It's such a commodity in the 3D world yet it's fought tooth and nail and blamed for everything including exploding toasters and cars not starting in the morning. To stay relevant, SL would probably have to re-invent itself. It would have to take advantage of mobile technologies. It would have to improve its communication tools drastically, beyond the half-arsed web profiles. It would have to be much more accessible with old hardware, even if that means a (high-def) 2D representation of the 3D world. As far as SL usefulness for businesses: What on earth for? LL tried to market it as communications and collaboration platform in the past, completely missing that most business PCs can't even run SL. Prototyping? Sheesh, there's tons better tools for collaborative prototyping. Same goes for communication. My employer jumps on every hyped junk the higher-ups hear about. And every single time, they realize that hype is irrelevant. Business needs are relevant. Nothing else is. SL doesn't fill one single business need. I know there's virtual training facilities in SL and other largely school related stuff - it's the minority though, because SL is flat out the worst choice for most of that. If LL really had wanted to become "Web 3.0" then they would have had to work openly with standards bodies like the W3C. They did try to create a RFC detailing the SL protocol and were laughed out of the door, because there's nothing standard about it, nothing interoperable about it and simply very little modern or well-designed about it. They probably could become the new 3D web standard if they had the vision (they don't), the skill (they do) and the leadership to get there, migrating or integrating their current platform into a new, better designed system. Except that they won't go that route. Whether they don't have the leadership for it or simply no idea how to get there I don't know. Footnote: I used to run a very large Internet business and was involved in the specs of some internet protocols like NNTP, actively participating in RIPE and DENIC policies... LLs story is the same as many others of that era. Someone just had a lucky idea and a founder who could talk anyone into anything. And then belly-flopped, but had enough inertia to survive for a while longer. SL will be around for a while. LL still has the know-how and skill to position themselves in the market. Will they? Call me a pessimist, but I do not think so.

Might be worth a shot changing your DNS settings. Try Googles DNS servers or OpenDNS for example.

This forum totally needs a block/mute/ignore function

Easiest way to disable RLV: Download and use the SL viewer from LL, available here: https://secondlife.com/support/downloads/

turn off RLV or just use the official viewer.