Pussycat Catnap
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Posts posted by Pussycat Catnap
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5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:
I am tempted to go and spend some money to upgrade one or two male alts.
@Pussycat Catnap, when you have removed all the onion layers, the body works as a BoM body? The alpha cut in the HUD disappear when the parts are stripped off?
How low are the number after you took off all the parts?
Yes. Onion layers are essentially the opposite of BOM.
So BOM works great on just the single layer.
I'll post some numbers once I get online.
There are so many mesh objects in Belleza that using it without removing the layers is almost akin to making a griefing attack...
I'm actually deeply disappointed that Belleza didn't do what Maitreya did.
Maitreya removed the onion layers for people, and made them separate items you wear. Still works - but now people assume a default of not wearing them unless they're using them.
And most people are actually NOT running around with Omega bras on all the time... so have little need for the Onion layers. A segment of people wear tattoos - but these actually work BETTER on the base BOM layer. Many other Onion items also work better as baked onto the BOM.
Belleza V6 MASSIVELY dropped the ball there - it's still the same lagfest it always was, and 99% of users will believe they lack the ability to make the mods needed to make it low lag - or never see my comments on how to do it - or never know it's a good idea.
Once you remove all the onion layers it becomes a low lag body - so why didn't they do that for people?
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1 hour ago, KjartanEno said:
Jake with Slink Redux male feet and Catwa Dino head. Skin, bump, and specular textures are my own. I'm using the mod version of the body. There is a noticeable neck seam. I despise neck blenders, so it is what it is.
My alt got the Jake update and uses lelutka heads.
I had no neck seams and no neck bulges or dents.
I did use the copy/mod version and removed all the Onion Layers which removed 87 mesh objects from the linkset !!!
So my male alt now has a super low lag body.
My process for removing items from these is to first use the HUD to set up the body for how I will usually have it, and make sure it's in BOM and Mask mode.
Then I rez it out with the option in the viewer to highlight transparencies.
I drag everything that is NOT transparent off to the side, along with the root prim, and remove those items from the link set, then link them to the root prim. I delete the huge mess of transparent stuff that is left.
- This destroys the ability to use the HUD because it ruins the order of links. But since the bodies are Mod the HUD is not needed anyway.
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2 hours ago, Eddy Vortex said:
It doesn't work so well for the Jake either. My neck thickness slider is already over 25:
Increasing the number looks okay from the side:
But when you view it from the front:
The neck breaks when you push the slider past 50. >_< This will be an issue for some guys who want a 17" or thicker neck.
This poor alt will have to live with the pencil-neck syndrome until who knows when it'll be addressed.
So the '25' refers to neck thickness, and they suggest a value ABOVE 25 with 50 the sweet spot for most avatars.
A shape dial of '57' in neck thickness seemed absurd to me because I use radically lower on Maitreya, but on Belleza it actually looked 'right'.
On the male body, I was told to adjust for a balance between neck and shoulders. As in, in your screenshots maybe your shoulders are too narrow and pushing into your neck which is too thick?
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3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:
I just can't see how that neck issue isn't a problem for people. Now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it and will probably notice it on anyone wearing it. Am I the only one that it bothers? I had thought with the universal neck it would fit my Lelutka as well as Maitreya and Legacy do. I will be sending a notecard to ask about this. Not sure I'd want to run around looking like Quasimodo. (ok, maybe a bit dramatic but still)
Got this in response to asking about it in what appears to be a new Belleza discord:
QuoteVixie — Today at 11:27 AM
If you adjust your neck slider to 25 this will smooth.Trying this however, made it worse:
Whereas my dials had been 38 and 30:
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29 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:
oh yeah the furry feet are rigged. So is her tail, come to think of it, though linking that might mess with the animations.
I'm definitley planning on removing all the onion layers too, she will definitely never use those.
Yeah I have a faun alt that, once the servers come back up, I plan to do this with. Link in the goat legs, tail, and horns, and delete all the feet and onion layers.
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7 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:
Wait... you mean my alt can take this body, detach all 3 sets of the human feet and actually link her furry feet directly to the body?
If so, that is awesome.
It's mod so you could technically link a house to your ear if that was your thing.
You still need the things you link in to have the right rigging - that house would just float around you the same way it would if you just attached it.
But yes if you have multiple rigged items that were made to fit Belleza - might as well link them all so you just have one thing to wear.
And remove all the parts of the avatar you do NOT use. Unlining and getting rid of them in the copy you use is better for your 'lag' than hiding them with alphas - if there's something you almost never need, toss it out.
I removed over 60 pieces of mesh from Belleza last night that were unused items - onion layers, alternative breast shapes, multiple feet, etc.
I am on the fence about feet with one of two ideas: 4 copies of the body each that uses a different foot shape... or unlinking all feet and just wearing the feet as another attachment.
- I think wearing them as a separate attachment will be the best choice for 'speed of outfit changing'.
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1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:
I just can't see how that neck issue isn't a problem for people. Now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it and will probably notice it on anyone wearing it. Am I the only one that it bothers? I had thought with the universal neck it would fit my Lelutka as well as Maitreya and Legacy do. I will be sending a notecard to ask about this. Not sure I'd want to run around looking like Quasimodo. (ok, maybe a bit dramatic but still)
It's been in Belleza since the beginning - and at the time it was still a step up from other bodies in that area, so people got used to it.
It is something they should fix, as smoothing that bump out would be unlikely to break any outfits.
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3 hours ago, Olympia Hoxley said:
[stuff because for some reason folks are picking on this person]
Given the update to Belleza, I think people should stop caring about the motives of anyone who wants a dev kit for a new body.
Whether you are just collecting kits to have some shinies on the mantle place, or you're putting out stuff on brand under a different account, or you're working on a massive collection before you release it, or you're just learning and want every resource it takes, or you already have stuff made but just that your critic there found...
It's nobody's business but yours.
And any new body needs every last supporter it can get, as fast as it can get them, or it will be relegated to the dustbin of lost potential.
I'll repeat my earlier opinion in the thread, that I dialed back a bit, but wish to dial up again now:
- That dev kit needs to be handed out like the free samples from a crack dealer down on the corner of the block. Or like being on Oprah: everybody gets one.
If not, this thread and this body will be 'off page 1' by the next moment on the calendar and forgotten despite all of it's potential. The window of opportunity got halfway shut yesterday, and it's only a matter of time until it finishes closing.
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5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:
Bad news for Kalhene Erica. That body does not have much content, and Freya has lots. With this update, I think Erica will be a body for the few, like the female Signature.
When I noted over in the Erika thread that a new body has to be super aggressive in getting out developer kits it was because of things like this.
You can lose the wind in your sails at any moment, so you need to race fast when you have it.
Erika isn't doomed yet - if they remain pro-active on updates and if they start letting ANYONE, even rando-fools, have the developer kit, they could carve out a space.
Belleza has a long history of slow updates, so even a small issue like a tiny glitch somewhere, let alone something like the neck bump noted last night won't likely be fixed before 2030... so there is space for any one that is more active in updating to push past them.
I think the update puts Gianni under more threat than it does Erika. Jake was always the best looking male body - that just didn't work anymore due to the neck and the hands splay. Now it's the best with those issues fixed and 1/4th the price of the others, plus Copy/Mod.
- Male bodies are going to have a lot more to answer for than the female ones.
Legacy male and female should take a hit here but I suspect only male will. Belleza will be another 3-4 years for it's next update, so Legacy female; which really only exists because Freya went so long without an update, will be up there again once Freya v6 gets outdated by the next Linden change to avatars.
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Working with the Mod version of the body, After removing every piece of mesh I wasn't using.. several dozens of pieces.
I unlinked the upper torso - which was 6 pieces, and replaced it with 'fat tids' which is a single mesh piece. That cut out 5 links of mesh. 4 for me though because I added fat tid's larger nipple addon.
- I then matched the bump and specular maps across the whole body for proper upper and lower so that fat tids would look right. Removed all the scripts.
Stuff like this is why I wanted Mod.
End result gives me a low lag 'looks just right for me' copy of the body.
The resulting visual is NSFW, so I can't show it here.
I'm thinking I need to write a tutorial of things one can do with the mod copy - from simple 'get rid of extra pieces' to more advanced 'link in mod-kits'.
I've been waiting YEARS for a human body that would let me do things that are just 'basic and routine' in the furry community. Never expected to get that body out of one of my favorites - so this is just an added bonus.
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1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:
Either I'm doing something wrong or the neck is wacky. There might not be a seam anymore but there's a lump where I never had one with Legacy or Maitreya.
I did notice that. It appears to have always been there, and it's actually BELOW the neck's head join, as you can see the head join in my 5.2 image.
Here is V6:
And here in v5.2 that lump is there, but the neck to head seam is above it:
So this is a 'stylistic choice' - probably not done on purpose, but one that's been around for a while.
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1 hour ago, Fenimore Hapmouche said:
There's an update? No way! *faints*
I know right.
I saw Tricky logging in now and then over the past 70+ years since the last update, but I kinda had given up hope somewhere back there.
But here it is, and it makes for the first 'major brand' human body to be copy/mod so I'm super thrilled right now. I hope this puts pressure on some of the other creators to put out a mod version.
Not only will I be able to fix issues I find on my own, but I'll be able to show others what I did, and ideas will bounce back and forth.
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1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:
You are reducing the poly count .. but in this exercise, you are also cutting the number of rigged mesh objects, that's where any performance gains will come from.
Thanks. Yeah I pulled out more items from the linkset than I kept in. So that should help a lot.
Really the 'copy/mod' version needs a very basic copy.
May just have to write a long tutorial on how to mod the body 'down to basics'...
Since it's mod, I'm able to fix some of the problems I've been finding - like the alpha one.
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3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:
Also... with it mod, I can change the whole body over to 'alpha masking at 64' so that it will work with OLD style clothing alpha layers.
- for some bizarre reason they forgot to set it up like this... so you will NEED to do this to get alphas working right in BOM...Here is why the 'blend' button in the HUD is doing it wrong:
Blend in Alpha Mode should be changed to 'Mask' with the number somewhere between 64 and 128. 64 seems to work best for me "so far".
blend mode means transparencies in front of or behind you will glitch like seen here.
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46 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:
Damn. I have deleted every single Belleza clothing item from my inventory. Every. Single. One. I though I was not going to use the body again.
And I did it just recently, a few weeks ago. This is why I should never throw anything out... 😫
(No, I am not going to drop Maitreya and use Belleza now. I am just dramatic. 🤭)
Yeah I'd done a hard turn towards Maitreya items over the last half-year.
I am still not convinced this version of Belleza is better than Maitreya - but because it's copy/mod it basically wins.
I had to dig through backup folders and things renamed to 'OLD junk' to find my Belleza shape, and I will have to make all 467 outfits I have saved, all over again...
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45 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:
Here's a MAJOR reason why MOD matters.
Everything in red there is not seen, so I can probably get rid of it.
The body is 521,373 triangles. So there is a LOT of room here to cut polygon count.
I am currently testing to see if I cam correct in what I can delete.
I managed to get it down to:
Faces: 185
Visible: 135
Vertices: 148,244
Triangles: 264,492
Complex.: 2,216Textures: 13
TMem: 33,540 KB
VRAM: 39,940 KB- By removing all the 'red' in the image above except for the root prim and the feet shapes.
I lost the ability to use the HUD because I messed up the order of the linksets, but that's fine, and if I were to unlink it in a more careful manner I might prevent that problem.
What I will do next is manually make 3 versions for each foot size - once this is done and I have removed all the scripts, I will have copies for use.
Also... with it mod, I can change the whole body over to 'alpha masking at 64' so that it will work with OLD style clothing alpha layers.
- for some bizarre reason they forgot to set it up like this... so you will NEED to do this to get alphas working right in BOM...Once I made a copy with ONLY the feet I wanted, I got it down to:
97,848 vertices
173,142 trianglesAccording to the @Coffee Pancake this 'quest' to reduce polygon count is not that important, but it's something I like to do anyway, while I search out better methods to measure the 'impact' of this version of Belleza.
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6 hours ago, Talula Shippe said:
Can someone explain to me the significance of the bodies being mod? Like, what does that mean to people? i imagine it means script removal which is helpful, but what else is there?
Here's a MAJOR reason why MOD matters.
Everything in red there is not seen, so I can probably get rid of it.
The body is 521,373 triangles. So there is a LOT of room here to cut polygon count.
I am currently testing to see if I cam correct in what I can delete.
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5 hours ago, Talula Shippe said:
Can someone explain to me the significance of the bodies being mod? Like, what does that mean to people? i imagine it means script removal which is helpful, but what else is there?
Everthing.
I can rip apart the pieces, remove some and link something else in instead, I can add my own textures, I can do well, anything I want with my copy.
MOD is vital to being a proper purchase.
If this thing really is MOD, that pretty much right there would be the final say for me on human bodies unless there was something dramatically wrong because it would mean I can fix flaws on my own.
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15 hours ago, SimplyJiwoon said:
What you're pick on the best or favorite AO?
Script wise? I wrote my own, which I give out as a freebie - so that it would have no HUD (works by sending commands on a private chat channel) and work by setting your 'state' rather than running an animation so it would keep working in a no-script area and also not have lag/latency delays in switching like the viewer built in AOs do. LL's changed the way AOs are supposed to be built in 2013 to the 'state' method and yet almost no AO sold uses it because everyone's still using the ZHAO script that was made in 1923 and feels that old...
Animations wise - I go to shops with bento animations and try them out because what's good is extremely individualist and depends on both your shape and the personality you want to express, both to yourself stuck watching that little cartoon and to people you encounter in SL.
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On 8/27/2021 at 7:48 AM, Teresa Firelight said:
The biggest downside to Horizons is the cost. There are Landlords who go around buying up lots and then immediately list them for sale for substantially more than they paid for them. The prices there are so inflated that it is almost a joke. The houses near mine are selling for like 195,000L to 200,000L each .. who is going to pay over $775.00 real USD for a virtual home?
The cheapest parcels (not as desirable of a lcoatoin) I have seen are generaly over 40,000L and they are rare.
It's had moments when it went down.
Before the Pandemic there were a number of Horizons houses that I passed on because I thought $19,000L was too much... oops.
I'm not doing my job right if you've only seen 3 or so naked people over the past few years...
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I almost wish fantasy was the theme coming after 'fantasy' because the fantasy houses just felt like modern houses surrounded by an overgrown shroom farm to me.
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1 hour ago, Nika Talaj said:
I wonder sometimes if the success that LL has had in improving region crossings has contributed to the plethora of massive motorboats. Friend of mine drove up in an immense one that was 200+LI, said she had no problem zipping over. /me hugs her 30-something LI vehicles. (I MAY get a 70-something LI seaplane, but I'z kinda skeered about it.)
Long before those fixes there was one specific boat maker that used to send me free megaboats they had built on an almost weekly basis.
I kept telling them I've got a 'thing' for tiny boats, but then a new megaboat would show up on my popup list of things to accept.
These megaboats have been around for a long time.
Some folk's just really go in for that sort of thing.
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On 8/23/2021 at 7:01 AM, Karly Kiyori said:
I usually have them bigger but I tested to see how low they will go without deforminng and I got them down to 22 looking fine. No deformer, but buoyancy at 100 and also using a physics with fairly high gravity (60) and mass (65). The physics makes quite a big difference. Bodyfat is at 39 here.
I had trouble the moment I went under 50.
I suspect how low you can dial depends on a number of other 'supporting dials.
This is the weakest point of this body - it deforms on smaller breast sizes.
I'm pretty sure that used to be true of Maitreya as well - it's even in old pics I have slamming Maitreya in early reviews. Yet on current Maitreya I've been able to dial all the way down and yet I can't imagine anythign having changed as there were too many clothes already out there. So I don't know.
If this issue is fixable, it should maybe be a priority before too many clothes appear. Unless it's not the issue it at first appears to be.
If for example, the only real problem with old maitreya was me using bad dials - then if we figure out the dials for this body to handle smaller sizes, we just start posting results.
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Posted · Edited by Pussycat Catnap
What are your numbers for neck thickness, shoulder, and neck length?
Me...
I think neck thick I put to 57, should is maybe 25 to 30, and neck length at around 30.
And more extreme: