Phil Deakins

@Ceka Cianci Just to clarify.... I started the thread only because Xiola's blog post was odd, in that it didn't say anything other than 'look at me' and say where you can buy the stuff she is wearing. It wasn't an announcement of anything from LL, or information from LL, or anything like that. So it struck me that it was advertising certain products. That's why I started the thread. Soon afterwards, somebody told me about the Blueberry 'premium accounts' promotion. It seemed to be a bit of a coincidence, and that may be all it ever was, but I mentioned it, because the impression I got, right or wrong, was that it could be some kind favouritism from LL to the Blueberry business, which, imo, would have been grossly unfair to other businesses (customers) when done in the official Linden Lab blog. The discussions went on from there, with various people posting their opinions on various aspects of it. But, and it's an important but, nobody has judged anyone. Blueberry isn't "catching hell", as you put it, because none of the posters in the thread know any details. It's all been simple discussion and the expressing of opinions, sometimes opposing opinions, about various possibilities, but nobody has been judgemental of either Xiola or Blueberry, because we just don't know.

I think they've all resigned ?

Only to a small extent, because it's to do with height. Have a look at the Seymour sim. You can do a little on the fringes of the granite, but not so that it makes any sort of noticeable difference. From the sea, there's a thinish section of sand, followed by a wider section of grassland, which is quickly followed by a vast expanse of granite. It's ludicrous. I've had land in that sim for many years, but only because I only needed the sky.

There have always been fees for buying L$. Shoulda gone to SpecSavers

Alright. Perhaps 'playing field' was the wrong terminology, because the only ones who are actually playing are Lindens - specifically Xiola. Merchants aren't actually playing. They are at the whims of the players. It doesn't detract from, or change, my view though. 'Play' anywhere except the place where LL makes official announcements - that blog, because playing there gives it the air of LL's official approval/recommendation.

FWIW. LL used to swallow the VAT themselves, so that EU users didn't pay any more to LL than U.S. users. Then they changed it and collected VAT for the EU. At the time, I think they had premises within the EU, so they had no choice but to pay the VAT to the EU. They certainly had premises over here for long enough, and I think they had when they started to collect VAT. I think they no longer have any premises within the EU and, if that's so, they are not subject to EU laws, and don't have to collect VAT for the EU. Perhaps that's why they stopped collecting it. Anyway, the whole argument is pointless, because what Penny argues is perfectly correct, but not for everyone.

What Callum said.

Including me, Kanry. But the principle is the same You can't afford the $72 + taxes in one go so, for you, mainland costs what I said it does + taxes. Other people can afford it. There's no need to argue the toss about it.

Ah. We are talking about different players. Your players are Lindens. The players I'm talking about are user businesses.

To whom it may concern... For those who can afford the $72 annual premium subscription in one go, a premium account costs about $1 per month For those who can't afford the $72 annual premium subscription in one go, a premium account costs $n? a month, or $nn per 3 months. That's all there is to it really.

It's not intuitively obvious, but regulars of this forum know all about it, because it's been discussed at length a number of times, before and after the land allowance doubled.

Agreed. The granite was a mistake that was obvious in advance.

It had finished by the end of 2006 when I joined. It was called First Land (I think) and there was none left when I joined, and no more was created.

Not true. I conceded ages ago that what I thought were 2 stores, weren't. You're very late with that comment. If LL actively promote one or more businesses, and there is no way for others to be similarly promoted, it is not a level playing field - except for those that get promoted, because the rest don't even get to play. There has been a liberal sprinking of "imo"s in the thread. I know that I've sprinked plenty, and I think that others have too. Also, what constructiveness do you have in mind? There's nothing to construct here. We are all just offering our views about on something that happened.

Looking after your best customers is one thing, but promoting them to the detriment of other customers is another, and I think it's wrong. Also, those customers who take money out aren't the best customers unless they pay LL large amounts for land. It's those who pay LL the most who are the best customers.

I've no idea what they take out, but I believe that nobody is taking so much out that LL needs to modify what they prefer to do on account of any user. What LL could do is possibly give someone like Anshe a heads-up in good time to make any changes, before implementing something that would significantly impact her. We've wandered down a little side road here though, and the road is only a matter of beliefs on both sides. Neither of us know that what we think is true. I just don't see how LL favouring any merchant is helpful to LL in terms of profits, which is where this side road came from.

No merchant is taking a fortune out of LL, Blush. And I did say "fortunes". I'm not saying that none are taking a lot of money out - I used to do that myself - but not amounts that are so big that LL needs to modify their decisions on account of them. Yes, I have very little experience of shopping in SL, but I do have a very large amount of experience of being a merchant in SL - one of the top earners before I decided that I didn't want it any more.

I never saw the marketplace promotions because I've shunned the marketplace from its start. The other 2 aren't solid Yes, LL is in it to make money, but I don't see how favouring certain SL businesses can help with that. Some people say that certain users get special treatment; e.g. Anshe gets cheaper sims. But I don't accept or believe that it's favoured treatment. Yes, she gets cheaper sims, but anyone can get them at cheaper prices if they buy enough sims. Anyone can negotiate a quantity price for sims if they are buying enough of them. Jack confirmed that years ago, but wouldn't be drawn on whether or not there were fixed quantity discount rates. That's land. Merchants are different. I don't see any way in which LL favouring certain, presumably the bigger, merchants can make more money for LL, unless the merchants pay a cut of the profits to them, and I can't see that as being realistic. The biggest of merchants aren't taking fortunes out of SL, so what LL could gain from their cuts is quite small, and, imo, certainly not worth the risk of it getting out. I don't know what project Arctan is, but I'm guessing that it's to do with limiting the ARC of objects, or limiting the display of high ARC objects, or something similar. If it's anything like that, LL always try to do new things so that they impact existing content as little as possible, so I doubt that it will be possible for us to know whether or not certain users were taken into account when making some decisions. I am sure that LL will always take users into account, just as they do when trying not to break existing content. But I don't believe there are any merchants big enough to have the sort of effect on LL's decision-making that you suggest.

Yes, shopping can be done inworld, but there only a small number of stores these days compared to how it used to be before the marketplace. And that's why I say that the marketplace caused the glut of unused land. I did mention that the gambling laws palyed a part too, and I forgot to mention the moving of all the adult stuff to Zindra. That played a significant part too, but I'm convinced that the marketplace is the biggest cause. What I didn't say is something I've recently post - probably in this thread. It's that I prefer mainland the way it is now, without all the clutter that there used to be. I'd rather have it with your 'lakeside' idea (one word shortcut for the bigger concept) incorporated though, and I'd rather have that with some of the improved sims being specifically residential.

I imagine that that's what quite a few people have done since the land allowance went up, although with different numbers of extra premium accounts. I'm doing exactly the same thing with just one extra premium. I'd do it with more if I had a use for more land, but 2048 + 10% is more than enough for me these days. It's been argued that LL doesn't give money back in the form of stipends and, whilst that is true, there are 2 ways in which the stipends can be thought of as real money. One is what you described - keeping it and cashing it out after a year. The other is what's also been described - avoiding the need to spend as much real money on L$. Both are valid to consider as LL giving money back. The only people who wouldn't benefit from a premium account are those who never put real money in for any reason. There are plenty of those too so, for them, a premium account isn't as cheap as it is for others.

Ty, Solar. I'll take the last word that you offered. I don't think I'm wrong when I say that the laugh icon here is understood by we users as a whole to show mirth, and not to 'laugh people to scorn', which is how you usually use it. I don't think I'd be wrong by saying that we users here prefer it to be used for genuine mirth, and don't want it be used for scorn. @Garnet Psaltery Assuming that Solar meant what he said about the last word, you are now free to have it with my blessing

Good. I'm happy that you're not going round and round with me about it It's still just scorn though - laughing AT instead of laughing WITH.

Ty Tari. I'd misread Hintswen's post and replied to it according to that mistake. It was only when I read the first line of your post that I realised my mistake. I've now changed that reply accordingly. @Hintswen Guardian

It doesn't affect me so there's nothing for me to deal with. But I am not wrong - it is intentional scorn. It's laughing at, and not laughing with.

I have to disagree with that. I think you mean a glut of abandoned/unused land, and the reason why there is such a glut of it now is the marketplace. The necessary gambling restrictions played a part but it's overwhelmingly the marketplace. The marketplace caused the removal of almost all inworld stores and malls, because they were no longer needed. That's why there's such a glut of unused land.