Carole Franizzi

Jaw dropped a tad here. I had no idea....

Ima Rang wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Ima Rang wrote: UncommonTruth wrote: This is where I meekly point out the sublte difference between Trolls and the more easily pulled off but less entertaining Obnoxious. :matte-motes-smile: Edited- :smileysurprised: k nvm. nothing to point out now. I'm not sure if I am the Troll or the Obnoxious...I will go with that which I am most frequently associated with, Troll, and let you make the correction if need be. I would like to state for the record however, that my post was not intended as a troll and/or to be obnoxious. Erm. I've a sneaking suspicion that you're neither. I think she was referring to two other people, actually. Ahhh...well that makes my response a bit awkward then...hehehh.... :smileywink: I can't imagine why on earth when somebody mentioned the word "troll" you immediately assumed they were talking about you? *coughs*

Ima Rang wrote: UncommonTruth wrote: This is where I meekly point out the sublte difference between Trolls and the more easily pulled off but less entertaining Obnoxious. :matte-motes-smile: Edited- :smileysurprised: k nvm. nothing to point out now. I'm not sure if I am the Troll or the Obnoxious...I will go with that which I am most frequently associated with, Troll, and let you make the correction if need be. I would like to state for the record however, that my post was not intended as a troll and/or to be obnoxious. Erm. I've a sneaking suspicion that you're neither. I think she was referring to two other people, actually.

Perrie Juran wrote: Also, in considering your suggestions, I posted the following on Rodviks SL feed where someone had already pointed this thread out to him: https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden @Rodvik. I was about to link this also. As you are probably aware from this there has been great turmoil recently in the Forums. Today in post #65 Carol proposed a solution for the Forum lay out that I think could make the Forums the most profitable for Linden Lab & the most beneficial for all the residents and alleviate most of the problems and misunderstandings. Even if you have already looked at this thread, I'd like to highly recommend you look at this particular post. Embarrassed to have to admit this, but evidently I don't know how feeds work either...couldn't find a Rodvik Linden anywhere.... What??? I'm the ideas sorta person, not the techy type..... But TY.

Dresden Ceriano wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Right, let's break it down. The "forum" area....how could it best be used...what's its function? Social Forum - private Showcase forum. - public Customer services forum - either I don't see why this couldn't be done within the framework we've already got. As I remember, the original Off-topic forum was hidden from the general public, meaning you had to sign in to see it. I believe this idea should be discussed and brought to the CTUG to suggest to the... oh wait... there is no one. :matte-motes-frown: ...Dres ETA: By framework, I meant the Lithium software. Ah, it's okay. I haven't the foggiest idea what a Lithium is.

Dresden Ceriano wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: One of the early warnings in the CTUG yesterday was when Viale Linden appeared and immediately stated that the meeting would be short due to lack of a speaker. To me, this was as if he said 'We have no need to hear what you wish to address on the agenda. My agenda is what matters.' The next warning was his statement 'can one person go at a time or I need to go.' Again, it seems as if our voices are unimportant. I do not think this was the message that was intended....or, was it? I read that part and the thought which immediately crossed my mind was that perhaps this person is totally inexperienced in chat-type communications and is not aware that, not being able to see hands raised, asking permission to speak, there is no possible way for a group of chatters to take turns intervening...... We tried, but all it did was give Vaile the ability to ignore what someone besides the person he called on said. Which, especially when you've been typing something and are unfortunate enough to hit enter after he's called on someone, can be very frustrating. ...Dres I find this rather worrying. It sounds very much like he's never even chatted before in his life. Yikes.

Perrie Juran wrote: Through all the discussion that we had at the advent of Lithium on Forum Categories, this is perhaps the most logical breakdown I have seen. There still remains a slight problem with the public and private aspects because we do want people to see all the full riches of SL. But I do think your suggestion is very workable. That's very, very kind of you. It just seems pretty common sense to me. And though I've no idea of the costs/time/energy to impliment and run a three headed monster like that, I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible....especially if LL made full use of the countless and enthusiastic volunteers who have demonstarted time and time again that theyre willing to work for free in order to make SL work. The full riches of SL have to be censored and filtered and prettied up. That's what publicity is all about. Sure, that means the Showcase Forum would be a "fake" - but who cares if it brings in new clients. New blood benefits every single one of us as it ensures the future of SL. The added bonus is that it might attract the potential RP crowd - who are among those who spend money in here. The free-speech social forum would have to be loosely, but consistently moderated to ensure that all the feed-back kept flowing, however negative, because THAT is how you fix the broken stuff.

Existing within any entity in which there is no recourse is distressing, to say the least. For many the forums are an extention of their SL lives, for us all they're the only space in which we have grid-wide communication and LL-client interaction. They also supply free customer services That makes them of extreme importance for this little community. Akin to all your TV channels, all your newspapers, all your plumbers, electricians, technicians, emergency medical services rolled into one. Surely, for that reason alone, the forums and those who animate them are worthy of a little respect?

Sy Beck wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: in part ....They made a mistake over Celestiall and were decent enough to sort it out, but I witnessed another "case" with my own eyes - Pep's. Others - Storm and Derek - appear to have been booted for objecting to the commercialisation of the forums...... From what I've garnered and witnessed all 4 of these people have bizarrely been found guilty for pointing out that LL were breaking their own forum guidelines. I'm not writing to discuss moderation decisions, but more to discuss forum policy in the round and I use past examples as that, examples. Each one of the four has their own unique style of writing from pointed outrage to pointed parody to get their point across and therefore each may engender different responses to their criticisms. The point is though, if each one broadly committed the same alleged breach then why are there widely differing penalties ranging from permabans to week bans and in other unmentioned cases mere warnings and/or post deletions? As far as I know there are no 1st degree, 2nd degree or 3rd degree breaches of the guidelines, its guilty or not and an explanation of the breach notified to you. There was though an understanding that you were allowed 3 strikes then out, though in Celestiall's case and from what I understand of Pep's, this was for some reason bypassed and permabans issued. Fortunately, Celestiall's was overturned though Pep's remains outstanding, which further exacerbates the present situation whereby nobody can be sure what the rules are anymore, nobody knows who's excepted from any rules, nobody can be sure what the penalties are anymore and nobody can be sure that they will be treated equally anymore. Somebody from LL needs to step in and clarify the situation. As Pam has suggested, at the very least a review of those bans issued over this fiasco would be welcomed. My own opinion is that they should be wiped from the record. The only message it sends to me is if that you see a breaking of the rules and report it or point it out then you run the risk of a permaban yourself. I'll freely admit that these fora are LL's to do with as they wish, but out in the real world if you saw a figure of authority breaking the rules and you reported it the last thing you would expect is for yourself to be thrown in the cooler or exiled. So LL: 1) are the guidelines correct as currently published? 2) why are LL and selected creators allowed to break those guidelines? 3) is it a breach of the guidelines to report/post a breach of those or any guidelines? 4) if it is a breach then please explain why and why penalties were so inconsistently applied? 5) if it's not a breach why were any penalties applied? 6) will you review/rescind any bans imposed arising from this matter? Thank you, Sy, for such an excellent, clear and logical post. Your questions could not be more relevant. The answers are relevant to us all - now and in the future. As you say, since we have seen evidence of erratic and subjective moderation, we, the clients, need to be reassured that each one of us will not fall foul of unfair treatment at some point in the future. To err is human, to admit to having boobed and sorting it out is dead kewl.

Venus Petrov wrote: One of the early warnings in the CTUG yesterday was when Viale Linden appeared and immediately stated that the meeting would be short due to lack of a speaker. To me, this was as if he said 'We have no need to hear what you wish to address on the agenda. My agenda is what matters.' The next warning was his statement 'can one person go at a time or I need to go.' Again, it seems as if our voices are unimportant. I do not think this was the message that was intended....or, was it? I read that part and the thought which immediately crossed my mind was that perhaps this person is totally inexperienced in chat-type communications and is not aware that, not being able to see hands raised, asking permission to speak, there is no possible way for a group of chatters to take turns intervening......

Right, let's break it down. The "forum" area....how could it best be used...what's its function? Socialising and Community-building, LL-client feedback and interaction. That's one thing. Has to be fairly moderated, transparent, with space for brutal honesty when required. Let's call this the Social Forum. It should be hidden from the public eye to avoid hiccups and messes being broadcasted to the winds whlst the open dialogue permits LL to get constant feedback, information and suggestions regarding how to better the product. LL could even ask for ideas, suggestions to issues. Tap into the immense and very willing resource bank they have but appear not to make full use of. Showcasing and publicity Open to the world, a place for SLers to showcase places, products, activities, events, divided by categories - music, arts, all the RP categories, charity work, educatoin, RL business and adult. Yep. You heard right. The Adult is a principle selling point. It has to be present, but in the most tasteful of ways - i.e. chock-a-block with only indirect referencs to activities and products, taking every opportunity to make clear that its for age-verified only, Adult entertainment is publicised carefully in the real world - why shouldn't it be here? Sex is the number one seller. Always has been and always will be. This forum would have to be heavily moderated to ensure that the potential new customers only get the rosiest of pictures, so you'd probably have to implement a filter (resident mod board?)and only approved posts get through. This would mean the merchants, etc, would have to dedicate time and emergy to creating top-notch threads and posts and should be encouraged to use images and video (not for adult activities though...they'd have to invent tasteful artshots which are totally PG but enticing - it can be done, folks - condoms, tampons, films with a high sexual content, boob augmentation are all publicised freely, but carefully in the real world), well-written posts and absolutely no complaints, rants, trolls. Free to use, it would be free publicity for both LL and the merchants to encourage new clients to sign up for SL. Let's call this the Showcase forum. Customer services forum - techy problems...could be public or private....not sure...which is best? To show people get support ot to hide the fact they need support? Have to think about his one... Three functions, three separate forums. Each run according to the objective of that space. And overseeing it all? Someone who understands and loves SL and who, above all, is a people person. Thank you for your post, Perrie.

UncommonTruth wrote: This is where I meekly point out the sublte difference between Trolls and the more easily pulled off but less entertaining Obnoxious. :matte-motes-smile: Edited- :smileysurprised: k nvm. nothing to point out now. No, it's good to be reminded that obnoxious is in a category of its own.

Orfeu Miles wrote: Ancient and venerable is the alter of Freya....Fair are her daughters...wise in the ways of weird are they. Mighty too is Odin...9 days and nights he hung from the tree...pieced by his own spear....wise in rune-knowledge he became. I clothe myself in a cloak of Ravens feathers...I lie in a river submerged to the neck...a heavy stone placed on my chest...Poetry issues forth from my mouth....I sing of my people...our wanderings...our hunts...our victories and defeats...I am a spear for throwing...I am the glint in the eye of a wolf...I am a harp for plucking..I am the thought that dies on the lips, for want of word-cunning.. That is all. Say what? I mean....Hail, Brother in the Dark Powers, Son of Flurp, Brother of the Night Lord Gonaiid. PS Where did you google that stuff? Pass us a link in case that real witch comes back.

Wildcat Furse wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! *EVIL CACKLING* Serves you right for stealing my man!!!! Just thank your lucky stars I didn't transform you into a badger. They're soooo not sexy..... Do you want your man back Carole???? ....:matte-motes-big-grin-evil: *meows* Nah. All covered in cat hairs and with fishy breath? No thanks!

Scylla Rhiadra wrote: LOL :smileyvery-happy: Sorry, nothing else to add. Aww...that's a shame, because what's missing here is the confession from a RL bisexual skunk midget (or whatever he was). Just sayin''.....

JeanneAnne wrote: Mayalily wrote: ... There are no male fairies. You are an elf. Silly men. If you want to be of the order of Fae, you will have to cut your family jewels off as there are no expections to the order of Fae. There are no male witches either. Male witches are called Warlocks. Again, silly men. You know, I wasn't going to post here anymore, where the corporate overlords censor us and may ban us for mentioning taboo topics. I've moved on to SLUninverse. But... I just can't let this go unanswered. Of course there are male Witches. There are a few Dianic covens that are female only but they are the exception not the rule. By the same token, there are all male covens of the Faery tradition. In the US it may be spelled Fairy. Rumor is that these covens are comprised of gay men but I don't really know. The vast majority of covens and traditions seek a balance between Goddess and God aspects, between Yin and Yang. Emphasis upon one aspect is legitimate but is dangerous. The great Dianic priestesses realize this and handle it well. I suppose this is also true of the learned priests of Fey. Less experienced or less wise practicioners can upset balance and then there is trouble that the Grandmothers must fix. There are both female and male Witches in my mom's coven. Mom is always High Priestess (even with her leg in a cast! heeee ) but various men, my husband among them, serve in the role of priest for various rituals and at various times of the year. In winter, especially, the role of the priest of the Antlered (not horned) God is predominant. Sometimes mom has a trainee High Priestess called the "Maiden" (altho she may well be a wife and mother) who takes on her role. It's preferable for there to be an equal number of male & female coveners but Witchcraft seems to be a lot like SL, in that women tend to be over-represented. The word "warlock" comes from the Old Norse term varð-lokkur, which means "spirit caller." As such, it isn't necessarily derrogatory. That said, it is a word seldom used in Witchcraft. The etymology that would derive the word from the Old English wærloga: "oath breaker" or "traitor," is simply incorrect. However, since many have come to accept this incorrect derivation, the word warlock is considered to be derrogatory by many. For this reason it's better to call any Wiccan initiate simply "Witch," be they male of female. As for the Álfr, or "elves," this is a general term referring to two "races" or "species" of beings - the Ljósálfar and Dökkálfar - both of whom are skilled in Majik and in techne. The Ljósálfar are associated with and worship the Vanir. Freyja is their Queen. Their home is Álfheimr and is a lovely place to visit, altho not without its dangers. The Dökkálfar dwell in the underworld. If they worship anything it is wealth. My advise is to not bother them, unless you have a very specific reason to do so and then, bear them valuable gifts and treat them with the utmost respect. Better yet, don't even go there. I hope this clears things up. Jeanne What she said.

Pamela Galli wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Forums have a purpose. A vital one in the case of SL. And showcases have a purpose. They are not, however, the same thing. This is where the confusion lies at the present time. Identify purposes. Set things up in the best way possible to ensure that those purposes are fulfilled. Do not mix up different objectives and targets – they will annul one another. Well said! That's it in a nutshell. Why, thank you, Pamela. I have my moments of almost lucidity...before it all clouds over and I become Napoleon again. Mm? What? Okay. Coming. Sorry, Pamela, have to go - Jospehine is calling me....

Let me reply to your last point first. Stuck with replying?? Oh, Lord, how could you think I was felt in some way burdened by writing a reply to you? I love yammering on. My wall-of-texts are proof of that. I’m delighted to get any reply at all from people and, whether they agree with me or not, the fact they took time to type me a response is very much appreciated by me. Believe me. Oracle? Actually, the batty old lady appellative is probably more accurate between the two labels. I’m just a mouthy, self-opinionated nosey-parker. I know nothing about SL’s competitors because in my entire life I have never played any computer game except SL. I think SL is smashing, even with its wonky bits, and I have no desire to go elsewhere. If I ever got permabanned or SL closed, I’d take it as a sign that my VR days are over. That they have rivals, however, is no surprise to me. That’s how free enterprise works. The only defence you have is to make sure your product is the best (and if possible, the cheapest, or at least best price-quality ratio). Which brings us right back to….be nice to your clients… What you said about the corporate structure coming down from its ladder…spot on…if it stepped off that pedestal a moment, that would be useful too. To everyone. Top management. Clients. Jill on the 7th floor. (It’s NOT a private club – anybody can get in, dammit! It’s a frickin company which sells a product produced in great part by its clients. Your turn.) You’ll notice I’m working my way from the bottom up through your post…I’m like that…eccentric and original…. Where have we got to? Ah, human decency. I have no idea what you do for a living but I spent some years in marketing. I promise you that human decency is the last consideration a company can afford to figure into the accounts book. Other stuff has priority. It almost has to. Many companies nowadays, however, embrace fair trade policies, won’t import from countries controlled by regimes, won’t deal with endangered resources, wont buy from suppliers who use child labourers, etc. In SL the product is in part us, in part what we create here, in part the tangible result of us “living” here and interacting here. A cocktail of social, technological, artistic, musical and creative (like RP) activities. Just as certain companies prefer to be seen as embracing ethical policies, my conviction is that LL should do its best to be seen to embrace a minimum of ethical treatment (as much as they can afford – since balancing the books is essential) of its client-suppliers-products. An attitude of “shurrup with your demands and just make damn stuff for us so we can make a profit” is totally unacceptable. I agree with the sheriff-attitude, agree with the case-by-case approach, agree with some sort of appeal process (resident-run brings no immediate objection to mind). The only thing I don’t agree with at the start of your post is your use of the word “drama”. This word is the most abused word in SL. It’s a catch-all for any distress, upset, sadness, heart-break, disappointment, annoyance, irritation which, my dear fellow (you are a fellow, aren’t you??), are components of what makes us human beings. That stuff which you term “drama” is a big part of what distinguishes us from radiators and boilers. We have hearts and minds and some would say souls. Of course, most of the “drama” comes from the clients – we’re the bloody ones in here, having to deal with the emotional consequences of buying into the idea of a parallel VR existence, after all! And we’re humans. HUMANS. Great talking to you. Carole F. PS I told a fib. About disagreeing over only one point. Although I agree LL supplies the foundation, most of the rest of the building was made by people more talented than I. If we all packed our bags and deleted our stuff and left, tell me, what would LL sell the new clients? They’d have to start from scratch and wait for the new-comers to learn to be good at making stuff and filling up all the empty spaces. In the meantime, those rivals would be galloping ahead.

Pamela Galli wrote: Carole Franizzi wrote: Having said all that, I ought to point out that the thread covers many issues which include banning for being unfairly accused of flooding the forums – not being abusive to other posters. I wouldn’t have posted in his defence had he been chucked out for that. That sort of behaviour is against the ToS. A number of permabans seem to have been handed out during the protest against Celestiall's permaban. Hers is not the only one deserving of review. A permaban is a death sentence; it should be reserved for the most egregious, abusive behaviors. A mistake was made with Celestiall's ban -- isn't it reasonable to assume that on review, other mistakes might be discovered? Isn't it worth another look? Totally agree. That one bad mistake was made is what makes me concerned. I woudn't dream of challenging the mods' decisions regarding actual infractions. They made a mistake over Celestiall and were decent enough to sort it out, but I witnessed another "case" with my own eyes - Pep's. Others - Storm and Derek - appear to have been booted for objecting to the commercialisation of the forums. Perfectly reasonable objection to make and, even if it hadn't been "reasonable", no customers should be forcibly silenced simply because they won't chant the "everything is wunnerful" slogan. Yes, absolutely - a review is only fair and I for one would appreciate a more balanced and consistent treatment of all SLers now and in the future. The expectation that we only post free publicity for SL is the unreasonable demand.

No, I’d agree with your objection to my mis-use of the word “bully” – it’s inaccurate here. Let’s say…uhm…people with aggression issues? How’s that? I’m sorry you feel I’m a bully have aggression issues. I genuinely and sincerely think I’m being polite most of the time, and, at worst a bit strident in expressing my views. I’ll certainly do a spot of honest introspection over the matter. Regarding my friend…can I be honest? If he’d been banned for tormenting an ESLer I’d have sent him a PM saying “serves you right!”. I’m very direct to friends, too, you see, and I don’t usually mince my words. However, he wasn’t. He was banned for a couple of totally harmless jokey posts. I don’t agree, however, that the person we’re discussing is a menace to the forums. His sense of humour may be sarcastic and caustic and when he over-does it, the mod does well to send him to the corner to cool. However, even at his worst, I have never seen him “seriously” attack anybody, unless attacked first. And even then, many, many more people beat him hands down on the sheer nastiness scale. Having said all that, I ought to point out that the thread covers many issues which include banning for being unfairly accused of flooding the forums – not being abusive to other posters. I wouldn’t have posted in his defence had he been chucked out for that. That sort of behaviour is against the ToS. I'd really appreciate it if we could stick on topic in this thread but would be more than happy to discuss aggressive behaviour in another. Feel free to open one and I promise I'll contribute.

WA: i totally agree with you, and if i had said the same thing, i would be more brutally blunt, less long winded with swear words thrown aroun. CF: Yeah, but I’m a lady. WA: some post are agonizingly long, CF: I could compete for wall-of-texting in the Olympics. WA: however, you original post was a rather nice plea to LL for respect of the existing members. CF: Thank you. WA: Unfortunately, you are talking to a corporation hell bent on profitss and see where that goes....( fanny mae?) because they are driven by profits, they will be less ans less likely to listen to " clients" after all they invented this so they know everything...................................................good luck anyways...........we can always all go to osgrid and start again. CF: Yes, but the ironic thing is, a little more collaboration might be helpful in identifying how to make those profits. Decidedly more useful and direct than stabbing about blindly in the dark, which is what we’ve seen happen. All the last few great ideas don’t seem to have worked that well, or am I wrong? Has the Facebooking of SL and the lowering of the age to get in brought any concrete results? Has the population shot up since these initiatives? Fill me in someone, please. PS Thanks for your post.

Ian Undercroft wrote: /me splutters. There are no male faeries?! So I've been wasting my time and money carefully cultivating such a look? I'm crestfallen! Oh, Jeez, Ian. You're nearly as ugly as me in a frock. Only, your legs are better...dammit....

Thanks for your post Knowl. I'll get stuck straight into my response to you. KP: The "product" is access to resources. CF: What resources? Ones which, in part, LL had provided initially (plus new ones, added to all the time, such as viewers, etc.) and, in part, ones created by the clients. You can’t have one without the other, it seems to me. They’re inter-dependent. LL could (and I assume did) open up a space with a few show-sims to visit but the vast, vast majority of things to see and do here are user-created. The original LL-decorated SL, I’m guessing, wasn’t that pretty, nor so full. Actually, I’m not guessing – I saw youtubes about it. KP: Residents have freewill, no one is playing God. CF: Mm. Not exactly accurate. For some people, SL represents an important part of their lives. It’s as real and emotionally-charged as their flesh-and-blood lives. For a few people, people who are house-bound for various reasons, SL may represent almost wholly their emotional, creative, social and romantic existence. For people such as these, having their account cancelled would amount to a mini-death. Forced eviction from their homes, forced separation from their best friends, from people they consider family and perhaps from the person they consider their life-partner. We can discuss the wisdom of this till the cows come home, but it’s not relevant to this discussion why people will make themselves so vulnerable, because the point remains that this is what they do. To talk about freewill relative to playing or not playing (using or not using) SL means you’re missing the point that for some people their entire or even only partial emotional and financial well-being is dependent on this platform. You might be able to walk away without blinking an eye. I might only be a tad nostalgic over losing Carole, but it doesn’t mean that because something isn’t true for us, it can’t be true for others. For those others, LL have god-like powers over their existence. Another very good reason why unfair, erratic and inconsistent treatment of its clients should be challenged. KP: An Account may be cancelled at anytime, but it is extremely unlikely that LL would do so without cause or reason. CF: And how do you know that? Because it hasn’t happened to you, you mean? Well, yes, we can be 100% certain that Knowl Paine has not been perma-banned for some real or imagined infraction. But what about others? We don’t even know one another’s ID most of the time. How can you and I know how many anonymous strangers have had their accounts cancelled? We can’t. It would be like a teacher coming into the class in the morning and saying, “Hands up everyone who isn’t here”…. Seriously, I think it’s important not to imagine we know facts about LL’s modus operandi, because that really is delusional. KP: Second Life is a private club, it is not a place of Public accommodation. Membership in SL is open to the general public, but, the club has rules. The term resident and member are legal fictions required to secure our Right to privacy. CF: It’s not a private club. A private club has a different sort of charter altogether and members have to be invited or vetted. SL is open to the public and with very few exceptions (banned account holders trying to open alt accounts) I suspect they accept everyone indiscriminately, as my imagination can’t quite grasp the concept of a LL clerk sitting there trying to Google-search every applicant to see if they’re nice people. Yes, SL has rules. Every society and community known to Man has rules of some sort. I’m not sure what your point is. Mine was that those rules are applied in a bizarre and inconsistent way, not that they shouldn’t exist. Right to privacy? What right is that? LL commits to not publishing your RL info, but I believe that’s about it. Correct me if I’m wrong. Still not sure what point you’re trying to make though. KP: Second Life has competitors who would love to see the demise of SL, these competitors have zero concern for "resident's emotional investments". They will exaggerate and sensationalize Resident comments to their benefit. CF: I know nothing of SL competitors, though obviously I understand that in business, the hardship of a rival is the gain of the other. Nothing unusual in that. Again, I’m unsure what point you’re making with the introduction of rival platforms into your post. All I’m concerned about is SL – which means – making it better (which I imagine would put it in a stronger position to defend itself from rivals). KP: The Forums should not be visible without login. That would solve a lot of issues. A thumbs down feature with counts hidden, could allow the community to self govern, x amount of down votes and the comment is hidden but not yet removed. A moderator would review hidden threads for possible removal, egregious violations would still be moderated without waiting for down votes. CF: I would agree with that. Or, if possible (I should point out I have no knowledge of how forums work and how much effort my suggestion involve), create two forums. A true, log-in one for residents only, where they could speak freely and tackle the bits of SL which don’t work so well, hidden from public scrutiny. And another open-to-the-public one which could be more promotion-fuelled. Like the messy vamp event. Only not messy…. Let role-players and creators and merchants show off their products and games to their heart’s content, as a show-case of all SL activities, all types of RP and related products and sims. Maybe even encourage machinininimamama (can never say that word) creators to collaborate with RP groups, with little competitions, so that there are nice videos of a RP in action which the world could see and admire and maybe think, “Hey! I fancy trying that!”. That way you might get brand new clients signing up because they fell in love with a particular kind of RP and, through the promo-forums, they could create contacts with the RP community of their choice, so that rather than wandering round the info hubs like lost souls when they first sign up, they’d have addresses and people there waiting to welcome them into their community and show them the ropes. Would this not make more sense than the present system? I suppose what I’m suggesting is allowing RP communities, the sim owners who cater to them and the creators who make things for them, to be directly involved in promoting SL and getting that publicity free of charge, as it’s in the interests of both them and LL that new people sign up for SL. Obviously, it should be for all categories of residents, all RP themes, all types of SL activities, not just the favoured one – slapping back anybody who dares protest. My sensation is that LL doesn’t have the man-power to place a employee as a fulltime mod. Regarding resident-only forums, hidden from the eyes of the outside world, transparency, direct, open and honest communication would be the only useful approach. Otherwise, it’s a counterproductive waste of time. I think washing our dirty laundry in private should be the aim. It’s the only way to identify, troubleshoot and resolve issues without drawing the attention of potential clients to the bits which don’t work. Because, let’s be honest, bits really don’t work. And how the heck do LL discover that certain bits don’t work? They couldn’t, unless we told them. Forums have a purpose. A vital one in the case of SL. And showcases have a purpose. They are not, however, the same thing. This is where the confusion lies at the present time. Identify purposes. Set things up in the best way possible to ensure that those purposes are fulfilled. Do not mix up different objectives and targets – they will annul one another. That makes sense to me. But what do I know? I’m just a batty old lady. KP: I agree that Resident feedback, both positive and negative is valuable. I believe that a custom, tradition or rule of including a possible solution with any comment/discussion would be helpful. CF: Indeed. How can you improve on an entity like SL which is in constant evolution without receiving continual, honest feedback? It’s nice if you can offer constructive criticism, but I feel it’s much more important to flag break-downs and defects as soon as possible and not wait around until you can think of something nice to say.

Let’s be brutal for a moment. What is the product that LL sells? Well, to some, it’s very light entertainment. To others, it’s a very vital and necessary part of their lives. To such people – ones who have made homes here, made friends, fallen in love, “married” – it cannot be compared to a TV set or a boiler which goes on the blink. I’ve often wondered whether LL has ever fully comprehended the immense emotional investment some people make, and consequently, if they have ever understood the ethical implications of playing God in so many people’s lives. Not forgetting the people who, with a “contract” which in no way protects them but only LL, invest money and time into SL projects, to the point that some partially or wholly depend on these projects for their RL income. Who on earth would sign a contract with an employer or a partner which protects only the rights of the other? Well, lovers of SL do. All the time. Every time you make something, rent or buy land, open a shop, make friends, fall in love, marry, you are carrying out an immense act of faith and goodwill in LL. Because they can cancel your contract in the blink of an eye. No appeal. No discussion. No argument. No explanation even. This why the forums are so important. The product is us. And we create bonds with fellow products. We invest emotionally and financially. In something which is as stable as a paddle boat in the middle of an storm at sea. And yet we keep doing it. Why? Because we love SL. But if our only means of direct communication to our “gods” - the forums - is regimented like a South American dictatorship (no offence to South American dictatorships), how can we not be frustrated, irritable, offended? Being treated like half-witted preschoolers is very, very annoying. What the heck effort does it require to make a few short posts to keep us up-dated. Being treated as if we were too stupid to understand is annoying, doubly so when we are the thing to be understood. We speak up to object to some new scheme and we get booted? Unacceptable. Really unacceptable. Posters like Pep make a couple (three to be precise) of jokey posts and they get banned for flooding the forums, whilst posters who’ve been recruited to create publicity are allowed to flood the forums with 20 threads, each composed of two lines, around the same theme? Come on…you gotta be joking. As I said, and as you confirmed, it’s the pains in the behind who supply you with the objective and useful information. Do LL really expect to get useful feedback from the I’m-so-happy ones who have a home, husband and prim kids in SL? Nah. All they’re going to tell you is how wunnerful it all is. The problem is it’s not wunnerful and more new clients are needed. And to figure out how to get them in here, LL needs to listen to the ones without the rose-tinted specs and decipher what they’re complaining about. Because in amongst the spoofs, parodies, complaints, rants, rages and melt-downs there’s precious marketing data. And if they deigned to enter into conversation with us, maybe they’d get a whole lot more. And completely free of charge!

Due to an overlap in relevancy, and on a suggestion from a fellow poster, I'm posting two posts from my GD thread here also, as it touches greatly on the forum and forumites. Apologies to those who've read it before. I know the done thing is to refer to us as residents, but I hope that the immersionists, submersionists and the impressionists (or whatever they’re called) will forgive me for once if I refer to us all as “clients”. For that is what we are. The money of many of us makes the whole SL machinery go round. I have never had premium membership, I have never bought LL land, yet I have spent a hefty sum of money in SL shops, clubs and have almost always rented land. Albeit indirectly, some of my money makes it way back to LL, the rest ensures that SL creators and landowners can afford to stay, make content and invest in digital territory. My own contribution, which must run into thousands of pounds by now (yes, it takes a lot of money to look this cheap), is small scale in comparison to those who, wholeheartedly believing in this amazing concept, have dug deep into their pockets and invested heavily. My hats off to them, as without these people, SL would not exist. Others have spent hours and hours of their time and energy to bring their artistic and technical talents to SL. These are the people without whom SL would be nothing but a blank-screened chat-room, for the vast majority of all that is truly beautiful in SL (and, of course much of what is not beautiful, but which at least fills spaces and makes SL dynamic, 3D and vital) has been made by these talented creators. Without these people, SL would not exist. Many others have come to SL, stayed a long time and never spent a penny. Although they may dress from head to toe in freebies, they do, however, bring human life, movement, communication, interaction and dynamism to SL. Without them, SL would be a desert. People come to SL filled with curiosity, poke their heads round the door, see that it’s scary-complicated and leave again. Others are lucky enough to bump into some of your clients who, in-world and in the forums, act as unpaid customer service staff. They answer the questions. They point in the right direction. They hand over free gifts. They explain, nurture and try to pass on their enthusiasm to the next “generation”. Without these souls, SL would be a confusing place and without the slightest doubt, many, many new clients wouldn’t hang around. My point? My point is that we all bring something to SL. Without us – all of us – LL would be an office filled with some clerks, technicians and some people with a great idea which couldn’t be put into practice. Now, I’m no business whizz-kid, but even I understand the importance of keeping profits healthy for a business to survive. And we ALL have a vested interest in seeing SL survive for a long, long time. Nobody in their right mind would wish to impede the very creature they care for die for lack of nourishment. If SL needs more money to keep going, well, hell, pull out all the stops! That’s your job, after all. Our job is making SL “be” something. And, as I already said, that’s what we do. However, some of us might also have insight into the creature that you in your office don’t have. After all, nobody can be all things. Here you have us – an enormous pool of willing, enthusiastic and varied feed-back resources, sitting on your doorstep, ready to be tapped into. What I don’t get - really, really don’t get - is how you can possibly convince yourselves that any old treatment dished out to these people – your resources, your feedback, your clients, can be deemed acceptable. There’s a history of bizarre PR behaviour in SL, but, recently, it has become utterly surreal. You’ve tried all sorts of stuff to keep SL alive and kicking, and I see you have a new plan this month (the vamp thingy is worth a shot, but I have some doubts about it. Nevertheless, I genuinely do wish you well) – just let’s not get so caught up in this week’s super-dooper marketing plan to attract new clients that you stampede over the ones who are already here. The “vamp” promo thingy may or may not work. However, in someone’s enthusiasm to get the publicity machine up and working, LL has sanctioned and actually committed breaches of its own ToS, whilst others, belonging to SL “sub-cultures” different from the vampire one, or to none at all, have had posts pulled, warnings issued and bans emitted. For what? For doing no more than members of the flavour-of-the-month are doing as I type, and in many cases, much, much less. Some questions:- If the forums are for everyone, why have you opened only a vampire sub-section? If publicity is not permitted why are you encouraging vampires to publicise? If spamming and flooding is not permitted why are you recruiting vampire posters to spam and flood? And why, oh, why are you severely disciplining other clients who are more respectful of the ToS but are not of the favoured RP category? One practical example. My old pal, Pep. Now, he’s a pain in the neck. Can’t stand him at times. However, Pep, in his various guises, is one of the main personalities in here and has been the main attraction for countless forum readers for a long time. Believe me. I know what I’m talking about. When I used to lurk, I’d log into the forums just to read his obnoxious, rude and utterly witty posts. I know Celestiall was reinstated with a apologies – absolute minimum owed considering she’s been a helpful, intelligent and vital part of this forum for a while, but I know that several contributors/CLIENTS, apart from Pep, who have been enormously active in keeping your forum bubbling with new threads and topics (Storm is one name which immediately springs to mind) are still non grata here. Why? Because they dared question LL’s approach to marketing something which, with all due respect, is partly our creation too. My suggestion, which will go ignored, as it’s been suggested so many times, is to try to listen to what existing clients have to say (many times they will be totally wrong, but sometimes you might hear some little gems, free of charge!), even when what they have to say is criticism and not praise (hint: that’s when you should be listening most carefully). And please, please treat us all a little better and more fairly. Please start by lifting the bans handed out simply because they were not singing to the Second Week in November 2011 Marketing tune. A little more respect please, for those who help you make SL what it is. We are not only your esteemed clients, but your product too. Thank you. Respectfully, Carole F.