Cathy Foil

Hi Gaia, The push, pull and smooth tool as I have described wouldn't actually affect the weights of the mesh so calling it a "Weight Paint Tool" would be misleading. The push, pull and smooth tool would be more of a "Sculpting Paint Tool" where it just moves the vertices in and out a bit for some fine adjustments. I probably have it do it by pushing or pulling directly towards the or away from the camera. The smooth function of the tool would just average the vertices. The erase tool would just move it back to the vertices original position though if you had the brush set or 10% it would just move the vertice back towards its original position by 10% not all the way back. In Maya you can actually paint the weights to adjust the weights of the rigged mesh. The tool in Maya is called "Paint Skin Weights Tool". Maya also has a sculpting tool which is more of what I been describing for SL called "Sculpt Geometry Tool". I think actually adjusting the weights by painting them in SL for the average consumer would be too difficult for them. See adjusting the weights while the avatar is in the T-Pose position the vertices would not actually move. If the joints are bent out of the T-Pose position and the weights painted they will move but not necessarily in and out. While a painting weights tool in SL would be great for content creators who know how rigging works I think it should be only available under the Advanced menu. The "Scuplting Paint Tool" the pushes and pulls vertices actually slightly changing the shape of the mesh clothing is something I think the average consumer can do and understand quite easily.

Cool Ideas Ripley! I personally think that the Mesh Deformer would be much easier to use for content creators and then have the inworld weight paint room to make fine adjustments would work better and definitely work better than Fitted Mesh with such a system. You could have three air brushes in the paint room. One to pull the mesh outward. One to push the mesh inward and one to smooth the mesh. Of course the brushes sizes could be adjusted as well as the intensity. Oh an maybe an erase brush too so four brushes. I also think having the avatar run through some simple animations which you could pause and adjust the mesh would be very helpful so you can see how the mesh moves. PS I really wish LL would come up with a name for their new virtual world they are creating. The easiest way to get people to know what the topic of a thread is to use SL 2.0 in the title. Ebbe has already said it won't be named SL 2.0 or Second Life 2 and that it will be a completely separate entity only really related to SL because it will have been made by the same company LL. The longer LL waits to name the new virtual world the longer people will keep referring to it as SL 2.0 and thus giving residents wrong impression that it will have to follow the same rules and or expectations that people have for SL 1.0. Come on LL give it a name. Even if you just call it a working title subject to change.

I like your idea about syncing the rhythm of the song to the rhythm of the animation Connor. It would definitely improve dancing. One possible way for LL to do it would be when an animation is uploaded there be a field to input how many beats are contained in the animation. LL would know the duration of the animation before it repeats. I am sure a small bit of code could be developed to detect the beats of any music that is being played and determine the time between beats. Once this is determined the viewer could speed up or slow down how fast the animation is played to so the beat interval matches the music. To get over people's music starting at different times the animations would not be started in each viewer till the sound of the music is detected. Even now two viewers running on the same computer the avatars in each viewer are not in sync with each other in SL. Great idea though Connor. I hope LL is listening and make it work.

Coby Foden wrote: Cathy Foil wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: if you try to upload a file bigger than 2048x2048 it tells you the max size is 2048x2048... i have a 1024x1024 that i made for a mesh house i was going to make. it covers all sides and faces.. one single texture. How is that worse than 10 512x512s? I have zero lag when it comes to SL. I have great internet and a very fast PC. why should i pay more for a texture? Perhaps LL has increased the texture size limit since I last checked or it is a third party viewer that you are using? I will definitely be doing some research to see what the current size limit in SL is. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits All Viewers Maximum texture size - 1024×1024 pixels All Second Life textures are constrained to powers of 2 (e.g., 128, 256, 512). Some textures inworld have a resolution as high as 2048×2048; this is due to a previous limit that was higher. Max Clothing Texture - 512x512 px (except 128x128 px for eyes) - Server Side Appearance will downsize larger textures. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Texture_sizes http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Texture_Usage Thanks for the info and links Coby! Saves me from having to hunt around SL's wiki for it. Perhaps the message Drake was getting was the third party viewer thing or perhaps LL has raised the texture size limit and just hasn't updated the wiki pages to reflect it. I wouldn't put it past them. Next time I log on I am going to try and upload a 2048 x 2048 size just to know for sure. Thanks again Coby.

Hi Katara, Before you rig your mesh clothing from Marvelous Designer it is best to retopologize it into quads. I made two video on how I do that for my clothes I make with Marvelous Designer using Maya 8.0 Part 2: Here's a link to my channel on YouTube: Cathy Foil Videos I have a few other videos relating to Maya and other things. Hope that helps. Cathy

I am not married to the idea of SL using Skype or Magic Jack. It could turn out that Virvox could be a much better fit. I was just trying to think how voice in the new virtual world LL is building could be improved and used to encourage Premium Members or whatever LL will call paid members for the new virtual world. I sure wish LL would name the new world they are creating already. I am tried of referring to it as the new virtual world LL is building. Ebbe has already said it won't be named SL 2 or Second Life 2.0. It is to be its own product not an improved SL. You may be right LL may not be willing to part with any income they get from Premium Members. They would really have to look at all the numbers to see if it be worth it.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: You realize the unlimited calling plan for skype is $13.99 USD a month, right? Premium SL membership is $9.95 USD a month.. Why would Skype take a price cut for SL residents? That's the unlimited calling plan. I believe Skype offers a cheaper plan for like $3.00 USD a month. If LL where to offer say $2 or maybe even less out of the Premium Membership to Skype then Skype might just take it because once residences get used to using Skype there is a good chance that they will want to use Skype outside SL and get the unlimited calling plan or $3.00 plan directly from Skype. It would basically be a marketing strategy for Skype. A marketing strategy that actually makes them money even if a Premium Member of SL never buys the unlimited plan for $13.99 or $3.00 a month plan.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: if you try to upload a file bigger than 2048x2048 it tells you the max size is 2048x2048... i have a 1024x1024 that i made for a mesh house i was going to make. it covers all sides and faces.. one single texture. How is that worse than 10 512x512s? I have zero lag when it comes to SL. I have great internet and a very fast PC. why should i pay more for a texture? Perhaps LL has increased the texture size limit since I last checked or it is a third party viewer that you are using? I will definitely be doing some research to see what the current size limit in SL is. It is actaully better to have several smaller size textures than one single large one. See your computer can download multiple textures at once. This means several smaller textures will download faster than big one. It is great that you have zero lag when it comes to SL and a great Internet connection with a very fast PC but this is irrelevant when it comes to uploading textures to SL or the new virtual world LL is building. You would not be paying more for uploading a texture than anyone else is paying. If you were the only one who would be able to see the texture I would agree that there would be no need to charge a higher price for large textures but unless LL puts that in as an option any large textures you upload will contribute to other residents lag. I have already explained why I think large and very large textures should be charged more for uploading them. It gets content creators to really consider if uploading a large or very large texture is going to be worth it for their particular need. It ill also encourage builders to use several smaller textures instead of one big one which will also cut down on lag as I have already described. You bring up good questions and concerns Drake. They are things that LL would need to answer and explain the reasons for because I am sure a lot of people would be thinking the same things you are.

Drake you know this is all just theoretical right? The OP started this topic which was just his ideas of what he thinks the new virtual world LL is building could be like it is all just theoretical. I am just putting up ideas that would help LL keep down lag and performance issues. It is obvious that LL has not named the new virtual world Second Life 2.0 for a reason. It will have different rules and limitations set down by LL. In my posting I trying to come up with ways for LL to encourage good building practices. SL has a considerable amount of lag due to the high number of large size textures people use. Therefore making large textures more expensive to upload and smaller ones really cheap is one way to combat this. I am not saying how I priced the textures in my examples would be the best prices for this purpose and I am totally open for suggestions. As far as 128 x128 being bad for skin textures I agree with you but skin designers would still be free to upload higher resolution textures. I believe 512 x 512 is the maximum displayed skin texture for avatars. It gets resampled down if the texture was uploaded as 1024 x 1024. Also 2048 x 2048 was the maximum size for textures in SL years ago but LL lowered it to 1024 x 1024. This again is mute because we are talking hypothetically about the new virtual world LL is building and LL could decide to allow larger textures in it. I for one would love larger textures in the new virtual world just as long as LL has some sort of limit on it and the only way I could think of to keep everyone from just uploading the very largest size was to make it really really expensive. As far as script checker your talking about SL not the new virtual world. To keep lag down everywhere I believe LL needs to limit scripts in the new virtual world. Perhaps they won't even need to if they use a new scripting language or system. Another way might be to give land owners some more built in controls such as the ability to automatically turn off all or most of the scripts an avatar is wearing before they materialize in the sim. The MarketPlace is a tricky one. I sure hope LL doesn't just tack on new categories for the new virtual world. It would just add to the confusion. Rating by LI for a Space Station wouldn't be a problem because it would also be competing with other Space Stations who's LI would also be higher. Yes one could get their friends to vote for their item but one vote per resident so overall I doubt they make much of an influence but you are right there will always be people who will try and game the system and steps need to be taken to help curb this. There will never be a perfect system.

What you are seeing is most likely a known bug that has come up when LL released Fitted Mesh. It has to do with some graphics cards mostly ATI cards. Check to make sure you have the most current Firestorm version. If you do then in the graphics preferences turn on Advanced Lighting Mode. Hope that helps. Cathy

The speed at which textures load on the viewer have less to do with the speed or quality of someones computer but is more affected by the speed at which LL's servers can transmit the textures and the speed of the Internet connection the resident is using. You can have the fastest computer but if you have a slow Internet connection the download time from LL's servers is going to be long. If LL's servers are bogged down with massive amounts of large textures that will also slow things down and and cause longer image load times regardless of how fast ones computer is. Professionally designed online games use as small of textures as they can get away with and still look good for the reasons I have mentioned. Your idea about having a graphics setting so those on older computers can set it so larger resolution textures be displayed at a lower LOD is a good one.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: LL used to offer that service several yeas ago but it was a major fail as very few signed up for it. I have a phone right on my desk and also I can already use skype when I'm logged in. I know tons of people that use skype instead of voice too. Not sure why you think it would be something that was really advantageos. It might even increase lag. LL used to offer a voice service that allowed you to call regular phone numbers? When you use Skype right now you can only talk to other people who have Skype. If Skype was apart of SL you could voice chat using Skype to any other resident who had voice enabled. There are two versions of Skype. The free version which you can only call other people who have Skype and a paid version where you can call normal phone numbers using Skype plus a number of other features the free version of Skype doesn't have. Getting Skype through a Premium Membership you would get basically the paid version of Skype for no additional charge and or Magic Jack at no additional charge. Just would depend on what kind of deal LL could strike up with Skype or Magic jack. So the advantage is you get Skype or Magic Jack at no additional cost if you are a Premium Member. I am not sure if lag would be an issue or not. I would tend to think it wouldn't since it would be Skype's servers or Magic Jack servers that would be doing most of the work.

Do a map search for a sim named Georgean. It is one sim among six that make up the vehicle sandbox. There is usually not that many people there so not sure how well it will work for showing off your new ride. Good luck to you and happy motoring.

I have a few more ideas I think could improve the new virtual world LL is building. The biggest problem with SL is Lag in my opinion. Its probably the biggest reason why new residents retention rate is so low. So with this in mind LL has to find ways to discourage bad building practices and encourage good ones. Here's what I would consider doing. 1. Cost of uploading textures would vary depending on size. a.) Anything 128 X 128 pixels or 16,384 total pixels and under L$1 to upload. b.) 256 x 256 pixels or 65,536 total pixels L$5 to upload. c.) 512 x 512 pixels or 262,144 total pixels L$500 to upload. d.) 1024 x 1024 pixels or 1,048,576 total pixels L$1,000 to upload. e.) 2048 x 2048 pixels or 4,194,304 total pixels L$4,000 to upload. f.) 4096 x 4096 pixels or 16,777,216 total pixels L$12,000 to upload. This would encourage builders to use smaller less lag causing textures but still give residents the freedom to upload very large textures when really needed. 2. Limit the number of attachments and or scripts an avatar can wear to less than what is currently allowed in SL. Currently all it takes is a few heavily laden avatars to come into a sim to make the rest of the users experience come to a crawl. 3. Have a combined efficiency rating and aesthetics score per item sold on the MarketPlace and give those items with the best score be given preferential placement in search results. Efficiency ratings can be done by the server taking into accounts size of textures used, number of scripts and or LI. The aesthetics could be voted on by anyone who views the MarketPlace listing. This would reward the best content creators who balance the best efficiency or low LI with making the most attractive esthetically pleasing item possible.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Cathy Foil wrote: Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making. I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers. LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world. They just have to do it while logged inworld. This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack. LL already contracts voice out to another company for ALL accounts, not just premium. Why would they limit voice to only premium members in the new world? There are plenty of people that are not premium members but nevertheless spend more than premium members do paying LL directly for private estates, fees, commissions etc. Sorry Amethyst I was in a hurry when I posted. I had to be someplace in RL so didn't have much time. What I was thinking was Premium Members would be able to make phone calls to outside SL or be able to call into SL from say a smart phone. This would be a perk for being a Premium Member. For those who have free accounts they could still use the Skype or Magic Jack feature to call other residents inside SL but not be able to call regular phone numbers outside SL. They could receive phone calls from outside SL from Skype or Magic Jack just not the other way around. I am totally open to the idea of being able to make phone calls from inside SL to outside phone numbers for other types of accounts such as those who have purchased a sims or even to free accounts if they pay a monthly fee like they do for voice morphing now. I just think it be a very good way to encourage people to become Premium Members. Probably be better than Premium Member only sandboxes.

Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making. I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers. LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world. They just have to do it while logged inworld. This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack.

I don't know if this can be adapted for ZBrush but you did ask to see how it can be done in other programs. Here's my method using Maya 8.0: Sorry about the audio volume being low in the first video. Part II: I hope that helps. Cathy

What may be partial reason for people not celebrating the new TOS is the wording is very hard to follow and understand if you are not a lawyer. I started a topic in the General Discussion forum and a resident who said they were a lawyer responded but he hadn't read the latest revised TOS or at least that is what I think he said. He was a bit hard to follow himself. I asked him to read section 2.3 of the TOS and please explain it if LL really has limited what they can do with User Content. Sadly he hasn't responded and I doubt he will. Here's a link to my thread TOS A Sade Farewell. What I get when I read the revised section 2.3 is LL is limiting what they can do with User Content to inside services owned by LL but then say except if we LL decide to do with it whatever we want inside LL services or out. Part of section 2.3: Except as otherwise described in any Additional Terms (such as a contest’s official rules) which will govern the submission of your User Content, you hereby grant to Linden Lab, and you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same. You agree that the license includes the right to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing, or providing support or development services in connection with the Service and future improvements to the Service. The license granted in this Section 2.3 is referred to as the "Service Content License." The green highlighted section appears to be were LL is saying they are going to limit use of our User Content to services owned by LL but then immediately after, highlighted in red, says unless they decide to use it anyplace they choose in any manor outside services owned by LL. Meaning they can sell User Content to anyone or any business in the world. So it appears there is nothing to celebrate about the new TOS. If anyone out there is a lawyer and can explain how agreeing to the revised TOS does not give LL full rights to anything content creators either create in SL or upload to SL please do so.

One of the reasons content creators started making their items NO MOD was because of the introduction of COPYBOT years ago. To compensate for customer not being able to mod an item scripts were created and HUDs added. The sad truth is that making an item NO MOD only deters a small percentage of copybot thiefs. If a content creator is making their items NO MOD for this reason they are only really adding to the LAG problem in SL. I am sorry to admit that I had been among them. If someone wants to steal your items bad enough, no matter what the permissions are, they can. LL definitely needs to do a better job at explaining this to content creators. Luckily people who steal are lazy. Most of the time they just want the item for themselves and they weren't going to buy it anyway. The few who do try to sell the items don't last that long in business because they are lazy and get board and quit or eventually get caught. Yes I had an item of mine get stolen. Yes they had it for sale and yes within six months they were out of business. Theft is going to happen but the loss of income to it will most likely be minimal. So worrying about it and causing massive lag with scripts and HUDs trying to stop it is way overblown and will hurt SL and content creators losing them money from the LAG driving new residents away from SL than any loss they might have experienced from thieves. I am not saying to content creators if they find someone has stolen their stuff not to report them to LL or go after them through the courts.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Cathy Foil wrote: The worst of it is even if you don't log into SL just logging into secondlife.com you must agree to the TOS before you can access your account or post in the forums here. I haven't read it word for word yet but in the Featured News Blog section is says the new TOS mainly has the new updated policy for skill gaming added and some changes to section 2.3. Supposedly the new wording in section 2.3 is in responses to content creators concerns of LL having full rights to anything content creators create or upload to the grid and that the new wording limits LL's rights to content creators creations. I have read section 2.3 but I don't see how LL is limiting its rights. It still says " you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)( with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content". I don't see how this is limiting what LL can do with content creators "User Content". LL just needs to spell it out what they intend to use "User Content" for. For example, Promotion Videos, Ability to transfer data to a new corporate or legal owner of SL if LL chooses to sell SL, the ability to transfer items and inventory to a new grid or new virtual world they are building. It's pretty simple. LL just needs to be open and honest what they want to use "User Content" for. The original TOS didn't spell out everything the way you suggest the TOS should. The revised wording pretty much brings the rights you are giving to LL closer to the original TOS by restricting LL's use of your content to SL and the Service. If you are not sure that it really does or you don't understand the wording, you should consult a lawyer. Please Amethyst if you understand the wording please explane it. The wording here is particulary difficult to follow and I am having a hard time seeing how it limits what LL can do. (with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service) What I get when I read the section you highlighted in red is it is identifying anything you create in and or upload to SL or any of the other services provided by LL as "User Content". Meaning anything you post or upload to secondlife.com or the Marketplace it identifys as "User Content". I really wish I could afford an lawyer to take a look and interpret what the TOS says. Perhaps Torley Linden can do a video with a lawyer to help explain the new TOS. I know youa re going to say they don't have to but since LL has made section 2.3 a big deal in the Featured News Blog "Updates to Section 2.3 of the Terms of Service" announcing the new limitations for LL on "User Content" I think it would behove LL to have one of their lawyers sit down with Torley and explain it.

Kelleyandsusan Kormann wrote: I am a Lawyer and I didn't see any of that in there Yes you have checked a New TOS, but I haven't seen it for a year, and that depends on you length of stay in here. In case you are unaware, Linden Labs and whomever owns this place, it should be clear that you simply rent a space. I remember a long time ago when active worlds went down, sold by excite. Well, what ya going to do. We all knew, or should have, when we joined this place, and spent money, it was never a thing that might last forever. It will, as long as they can be profitable, they will continue. Start causing panic, and they may go away. Chill out, go to Applebees, have a nice dinner, and enjoy Real Life. Tomorrow morning, it may be here, as it has been for me for 6 years, Then again it may change, I might guess you will live thru it. If you don't then I hope your Avatar rests in peace Kelleyandsusan awesome a Lawyer perfect! Please please Kelleyandsusan read section 2.3 and copy and paste it here with an explanation on how it limits LL from doing anything they want with "Users Content" from people who have agreed to the TOS. I am not being sarcastic. You are a lawyer and I am not. The TOS is hard to read and understand for the layperson like myself. When I read 2.3 what I get from it is if you agree to the TOS you give LL full rights to do whatever they want with content you create in or upload to SL. Here is a link to the new TOS: http://lindenlab.com/tos I also don't understand what you meant by "depends on you length of stay in here".

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: No one who didn't agree to the TOS will see your post. A good thing because what you say isn't true, except that people who don't agree can use the SL websites. First, LL can't hold your money hostage to a TOS change agreement. As Perrie said, LL can be contacted outside of SL or its websites to arrange to get your account downgraded or deleted and retrieve your money. While it is a shame people such as Chosen Few can't help out answering questions on the forum anymore if they don't agree to the TOS, why should people in general who left SL by not agreeing to the TOS have access to websites intended for exclusively for residents? Chosen hasn't posted to the forum since October anyway so no change there. Actually a side effect may be to get rid of robo spamers - a good thing if it does. Actually you are wrong Amethyst. You don't have to log into secondlife.com to read posts so you don't have to agree to the TOS to read them. I know I tried it before I agreed to the TOS. You have to agree to the TOS before you can access your account on secondlife.com or post to the forums. Since you don't have to agree to the TOS to read the forums then it is quite clear that the forums are not intended for exclusive use of residents. If you could provide links to where LL gives instructions on how to arrange to cancel your Premium Membership and or retrieve your money by email, fax, phone or regular mail please do so. I think it would be very valuable information and much appreciated.

The worst of it is even if you don't log into SL just logging into secondlife.com you must agree to the TOS before you can access your account or post in the forums here. I haven't read it word for word yet but in the Featured News Blog section is says the new TOS mainly has the new updated policy for skill gaming added and some changes to section 2.3. Supposedly the new wording in section 2.3 is in responses to content creators concerns of LL having full rights to anything content creators create or upload to the grid and that the new wording limits LL's rights to content creators creations. I have read section 2.3 but I don't see how LL is limiting its rights. It still says "you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content". I don't see how this is limiting what LL can do with content creators "User Content". LL just needs to spell it out what they intend to use "User Content" for. For example, Promotion Videos, Ability to transfer data to a new corporate or legal owner of SL if LL chooses to sell SL, the ability to transfer items and inventory to a new grid or new virtual world they are building. It's pretty simple. LL just needs to be open and honest what they want to use "User Content" for.

You're right Perrie. It's a one size fits all legal document though it could be argued that it is almost exclusively worded for the Second Life Grid. There are a bunch of things in it that are only exclusively written for the SL grid and not any other LL product. A one size fits all legal document is a bad idea. I am not against having a TOS for secondlife.com. I think it is a bad idea to force residents to agree to conditions that solely apply to the SL grid in order to access secondlife.com. This is the problem of a one size fits all legal document. I wonder if it could be challenged on the basis that the TOS is covering multiple products. Imagine if you were injured in an accident and had a legitimate legal case against a corporation. Then imagine you go to rent a car and sign an agreement and in the fine print says you can not sue the rental car company or any subsidiaries and it turns out that one of the subsidiaries is the same corporation that caused the accident you were injured from. Would that legal document hold up in court? I don't know.

Perrie Juran wrote: You could always cancel your account via E Mail or Snail Mail. Good to know Perrie! But you still can't access any Linden Dollars you many have or and real US dollars you have in your account without first agreeing to the TOS.