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CleoSertorii

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About CleoSertorii

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  1. This is my place. I've had it for a bit over a year. I'm still finishing up the landscaping since I had to reorganize it when I recently changed the house. It is simple, but it is in a good area and I really enjoy it.
  2. I am in a mermaid group and own a couple of boats, so I spend a lot of time out on (or under) the Blake Sea. I also rent an island off of Blakes, and that is where I hang out when I want to relax. I go shopping (probably way too often), spend time at some of the beaches, and go to my favorite clubs (Fogbound and The River). I also spend time at both Social Island 1 and Degrand infohub, because most of my inworld friends hang out at those places.
  3. Innula Zenovka wrote: Snowgoose Yootz wrote: Innula, the point that Cleo and I have made, time and again, is that the PV's choose to use Landing hubs and social areas BECAUSE they are not policed. They also seem to take great delight in TELLING a perspective player, "oh you are a shade, such and such did that to you" and so they spread hate and distrust. My own personal view now is that I couldn't give a flying F what PV's do, as long as it dosn't involve my avatar in any way, and that INCLUDES being on some two-bit PV database. People should know about the PV game, they can make their own choices as to if they want to play or not. That is what I and many like me have been trying to do, raise awareness of something that is kept secret for no good reason. If your point is that Landing Hubs and LL-owned social areas tend to attract griefers because they're badly policed, and these griefers include players of Progeny, then I won't argue with you. However, I do think it's a bit odd, out of all the annoyances and nuisances to be found at places like Ahern, to single out any one in particular. Landing Hubs and similar are snake-pits, or can be, and everyone knows that. I'm all in favour of clearing out the nuisances (though I do understand the practical problems of policing these places that LL face) but I don't see the point of focussing on one group of nuisances to the exclusion of all the rest. However, I'm still rather confused. As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, the normal game-play in Progeny doesn't involve tellling non-players anything about the game, including that they've been bitten. Am I correct in this? If someone is playing Progeny correctly he shouldn't tell me he's bitten me, and I can go through SL blissfully unaware that dozens of vampires are snacking off me? You see, I'm having problems understanding whether the main complaint is that Progeny keep everything a secret and don't tell anyone what they're doing,or if it's that, as you put it, they take great delight in telling prospective players in detail what they've been doing. If they came to one of our venues and started upsetting visitors by tellling them "oh you are a shade, such and such did that to you," we'd boot them. However, they don't (I'd see the reports if they did). But if they stand around quietly pretending to bite people and no one is aware of it, I simply don't see the harm. Hopefully, this will clairfy things a bit.... Progeny have several rules of behavior, but their #1 rule, as i understand it, is the principle of "masquerade"...which means that no human (non-player) is every supposed to know of their existence. Progeny are not allowed to tell humans who they are, or that they are being bitten. Progeny are also not allowed to tell people about other progeny vampires. When progeny is talked abou tby non-players, they are basically instructed to deny having any knowledge that progeny even exists. "Outing" progeny vampires is such a big concern, that Lachiel (Progeny creator) has even addressed it in one of his recent podcasts. So, thats how they are SUPPOSED to RP. The reality though, is that progeny vamps often brag about their bites, proudly wear clan or family group tags, have progeny groups listed in their profiles, and make such a public nuisance out of themselves, it's hard to mistake who they are. Some of them also get quite hostile when non-players discuss PV in local chat. That is how i got involved in all of this...an ex-progeny and i were talking about the system in local. Another progeny immediately threatened me in local to stop talking about it, physically attacked my avi, then sent a threatening IM, promising to "make my SL life hell" if i continued to discuss progeny openly. My friend got hauled in to progeny court to be "disciplined" for discussing progeny with a non-player. On top of all of that, since Social Islands (and other newbie welcome areas) have been designated by progeny as open hunting grounds, then a large number of progeny literally congregate there to feed, and fight eachother. Progeny on progeny bites are also totally visible, as they involve bite animations. It is a common thing to see a string of 3-4 progeny all attached with followers and bump attack huds (no, not part of the official progeny hud) pushing and shoving right in the middle of a big group of new residents. Imagine being a brand new avi, trying to learn how to walk, talk, and change clothes, then all of a sudden, a half dozen vampires come out of nowhere and begin bumping eachother (and anyone else within range) for sometimes as long as an hour straight. While this is going on, other progeny are shadowing newbies (sometimes using the force hug to attach to them) and feeding. I would really like for someone to try to justify how this doesnt qualify as disruptive behavior. This is the point i have been trying to make the entire time...if progeny would behave they way they are supposed to, then no one, myself included would have even known they existed. In principle, the secret bites and the database are annoying, but the moment they cross that line to trolling and griefing, then something needs to be done about it. Personally, I believe the initial hostility was created by the enforcement of the masquerade principle. If they weren't so paranoid about being discovered, then maybe it might not be such an issue. The other big problem is their unwillingness to discipline their own players who abuse others. The standard excuse i have heard is that Lachiel only created the system, and he is not responsible for what people do with it. That is ** in my opinion, because they DO enforce rules among their own players. Now, just to make it clear, we are not singling out progeny as the only griefers out there. Obviously there are others, and the only way to deal with them is the AR system, and not worth the time of a forum thread. However, because progeny is an RP system with rules and a way to enforce them from within, that is the primary reason why we seem to target them in exclusion of others. If we raise enough awareness of their behavior, there is a possibility that the progeny leadership migh tbe willing ot make a few adjustments to how they do things, in order to promote those "bridges" of communication that Oberon mentioned.
  4. Dres, I told you it existed because i have SEEN it used, not only on me but also on others. Speculation played no part in it, but thanks for assuming. You chose to not see what I had said about it, and went on to imply that we had no idea what we were talking about. You can sit here and argue semantics all day to try to get out of what you said, but you did, in fact, imply that I was lying about it. You want proof, I provided it to you with the MP link that I posted, and you can't even acknowledge that...typical. By the way, you are pretty far down on the list of people who's advice I will follow, so please stop trying to offer it. The one thing I am certain of is that you have still continued to miss my entire point (intentionally or otherwise), not that you ever cared about one in the first place. You keep saying that your responses are based on what I have posted, but it is glaringly obvious that your recollection of those posts is selective.
  5. Dresden Ceriano wrote: Why waste your time, Innula? It's perfectly clear that neither Cleo nor LadyShad0wz have any idea whether or not what they've suggested could be or ever actually was scripted, much less that such scripting is included in the Progeny system. What you're seeing here is the product of either rampant speculation or outright, fear mongering. And, I wouldn't discount the possibility of both being in play. ...Dres /shakes her head and sighs....Dres, again you are demonstrating your trollishness here, and your lack of reading ability. Not once did any one here say or imply that the follower we have observed was a part of the progeny hud. in fact, I am pretty sure it is an entirely seperate hud, as I have seen other people i know (non progeny) using something similar. For you to go as far as practically accusing us of making this up is just out of line., and falls under the category of baseless accusations. I have seen this follower in action on a daily basis. It has been used on me many times, always by progeny. How about this, why don't you log into SL and go to Social Island at prime progeny gathering time and see for yourself? You crossed the line here, dres...i don't lie. btw, for your reading pleasure... https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/SmexyL-Follow-Grab-Hug-HUD-2/4599320 read the **** description and tell me again that this is speculation or fear mongering. If you really enjoy eating crow, then go on the MP and type "follower" or "follow hud" and see the wonderful assortment of these potential griefer tools, and hopefully you will think twice before accusing me of making **** up again.
  6. Dillon Levenque wrote: Jeez! Am I that unintelligible? I GET the point you are trying to make! I thought I made that clear. That's why I separated my last bit into two parts, since you'd pointed out that you would only hate Progeny about half as much (that's not a direct quote, but I'm pretty sure you did use the word 'hate') if they kept their mischief to the unannounced biting, and then went on to talk about the actual griefing. I think the fact you are even bothered by the unannounced biting is odd, and hating someone for it even more odd. I get it that you're upset about more things than that but I think being upset about the biting is odd. I was just saying that I disagreed with you on that part. I then went onto Part 2. In Part 2 I addressed the griefing aspects of the behavior you've said Progeny has shown. I agreed that behavior like that was griefing. I kind of thought I implied almost everyone else (okay, screw it: I said "we" without really knowing how everyone else feels) thinks it's griefing, too. You don't want to hear my suggestions on dealing with griefers, okay fine. You get to do what you want to do. If you want to reply, you'll get the treat of having the last word. Ok, last word it is then...no, you are not unintelligible, but your first point made it seem as though I had a problem with accepting different points of view, which is not true. I felt that it was necessary to clarify (or reaffirm) that was not how i felt about things. It also might be a good idea for you to actually read what i wrote, and not add in words that i never used. The term I used was "dislike", not "hate", so please dont create an assessment of me based on the wrong word. I also never said that the hidden bites were a non-issue for me, I just said they were at the bottom of my priority list. Is it odd to be upset that you are being used as an unwilling pawn in someone elses game? Maybe it is to you, but not everyone thinks that way. Maybe your point of view is the odd one, and i'm the one who is normal I would like to know who are the "most of us" who seem to agree that my feelings in this are "silly" and "odd". Have you taken a survey of the general SL population, or even of this forum? I probably shouldn't even bring this up, but the hidden bites go back to one of those principle things I keep talking about, but since you think that is silly and odd, I see no point in spelling it out for you. I also never said I didn't want to hear your advice on how to deal with griefers, but I needed to explain why this situation was unique. Your suggestions were the generic sort that I already know about, as I have heard them from more people than just you. However, your suggestions didn't seem to take into account the specific circumstances that I and others have to deal with, so once again, I thought a bit more information would be helpful. If you decided to take that as an out of hand refusal to listen to you, then that's not my problem. I have said this before, but one of the things that i find ironic here are that nearly all of the replies with "advice", while in most cases well meaning, still do not come from personal experience with progeny vampires. It is just possible that if some of you had experienced some of the same things I have personally witnessed, then your advice might be a bit more "tuned" to the circumstances.
  7. Innula Zenovka wrote: I very much doubt that's the kind of script she's talking about, since, as the article to which you link explains, it's meant to be worn by the avatar who is doing the following. It's the same kind of thing that slave collars use. I thought she was describing how she was dragged around against her will by people using a scripted object. I know how that's done, and it's a completely different function. As I said, it only works on land where push is enabled (because you can push people towards yourself as well as away from you). No, sorry if i was unclear in any way. The follower that i was describing allows the person using it to follow another avatar around, not drag their avatar against their will. The times it has been used on me, I could freely move my avatar around anywhere like usual (including flight), but the progeny who had attached themselves to me would be able to follow me no matter where I went on the sim, and if i stopped moving for even one second, they would be practically sitting in my lap. Teleporting away to another sim would break the link, but coming back again, the follower would reaquire my avi almost instantly. I have seen two versions of this follower...one simply allows the user to follow another avatar to stay in feeding range (2m for progeny), and the other would do the same thing except their avatar would be ON yours, using a hug animation. Moving anywhere would drag them with you, even though they were the one who initiated it.
  8. Innula Zenovka wrote: CleoSertorii wrote: I'm sorry, I can't really describe it any better than that. I don't know enough about scripting to go into details, i just see what it does. I do know that whatever the force hug does, no permission is asked, as it has been done to me several times. Moving around just drags the offending avi along with you. The only way to break the hug is to tp out of the area. I don't have such an issue with it myself, as I know how to deal with it, but there are often dozens of newbies that the progeny attach to, and they have no idea at all how to handle it. To clarify, the force hug doesnt animate your avatar, it only animates the avi of the person initiating the hug. The first instance of abuse by a progeny was that this individual locked his avi into mine, and then used some sort of an attack hud to knock me around. I was in a no-scripts zone at the time, so I didn't know how he was even able to do it. Since then, I have learned that some scripted huds can be enabled outside of the no script area, then brought in, where it will work. My movelock works that same way. Oddly enough, Social Island has very few griefers, other than come of the progeny. The main problem here is that this area (Social Island) is LL owned, and basically LL ignored for the most part. Contacting the land owner in this case is basically filling out an AR, and we all know how quickly LL responds to those Thanks. I now understand (I think) the exploit you describe and how it's done. I won't go into details other than to say it depends on the landower not having turned off "Push" in the land options. That's very rare, though -- Social Island must be one of the few places in SL where it does work. If you're worried, just look for the no push icon in at the top of the screen -- if you see it, you're OK. That's a separate setting from the "no scripts" one ("no scripts" is easy to circumvent -- it has to be, or AOs wouldn't work and planes would fall from the sky). I think there's still some point in filling out ARs, though I do see what you mean. However, the bit I don't get is that the sort of griefing you describe is possible in very few -- primarily LL-owned -- places. There's literally thousands -- tens of thousands -- of venues and hangouts this sort of nonsense isn't possible and wouldn't be tolerated. Why not spend your time in some of the many places run by residents who do their best to keep the venue safe and welcoming rather than in somewhere you know attracts griefers? As I think I've mentioned, I'm involved in running a whole estate of entertainment regions. I see the incident reports our managers and security staff file, and we frequently discuss the best strategies to deal with griefing attempts and other threats to our regions. I've seen reports about all manner of nuisances (including plenty of complaints unsolicited Bloodlines bites, which we don't tolerate -- a message that seems to have got through at last) but I've never once in the past four or five years I've been involved seen anyone mention Progeny and their members. That sort of griefing shouldn't be tolerated at Social Island either, but as i said, we have no specific landowner to talk to about it. Any action on LL owned sims must go through the AR system, and believe me, I have filed dozens of them. Push is enabled at Social, and I have my own movelock just because of that. However, it's not just me who gets affected by this. I spend time at Social Island for two reasons...one, because it is a wonderful place to meet new people, and second, because I enjoy helping new residents get a start in SL. LL does a horrible job in teaching newbies the basics, so many of us have chosen to be available to help them when they need it. If it becomes obvious that there is no way that anything will change for the better, then I suppose I'll abandon that aspect of my SL, but for now, as long as there is even a chance that someone might listen, either LL or Progeny leadership, then I will continue to talk about it, and make people aware of what is happening. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.
  9. Dresden Ceriano wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: Most of us have principles. That's the thing, Dillon... Cleo is seemingly unable to understand that anyone with whom she disagrees is disagreeing with her on principle. She keeps stating that I've no stake in this argument, framing me as some sort of troll, all while completely disregarding the fact that my counter-argument is entirely based upon my perception of what is actually the principle of the matter. I contend that people should be allowed to conduct themselves as they wish, as long as their conduct doesn't infringe upon anyone else's right to the quiet enjoyment of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. On principle, I'm totally against anyone who would seek to impose their will upon a group of people who's conduct is in no tangible way threatening to thier own happiness. In other words, I'm a big advocate of live and let live and, while there's sometimes good reason for this sort of contentious debate surrounding the matter in RL, this instance in SL is quite simple, as far as I'm concerned... that being, "mind your own damned business and go about your merry way". So, shoot me for trying to understand why Cleo and Gooseneck and whomever else that believes as such can't understand this basic principle of freedom. ...Dres after all of this time, you still don't get it, do you? Much of progeny's activity goes against exactly what you said (bolded part above). Their conduct DOES infringe upon my enjoyment of my SL time, so I have every right to say something about it. Do I really have to spell it out for you...again? Or will you just keep on ignoring the relevant points that I have made at least a dozen times by now? You keep going on about "no tangible way", despite the very tangible examples that I have presented, which leads me to believe that you are conveniently ignoring those points. In any case, nothing you say will convince me to change my mind about this, or change how i deal with it, because I don't see you honestly trying to understand things from my point of view. Maybe that's just a result of incompatable communication methods, but I suspect it is something else. Either way, I have no plans to adjust the way I do things to suit how you think I should do them.
  10. Dillon Levenque wrote: CleoSertorii wrote: There are such things as principles, and I am very aware that many people don't believe principles exist in a "game" like SL. I don't generally criticize people for not having them, but at the same time, I don't believe it is right for those people to criticize those of us that DO have principles. Trust me, if PV vamps would just go on their merry way feeding in private, then i wouldn't have even half of the dislike for them that I do, but when they use their progeny status and RP as an excuse to abuse and disrupt, then I look on them as griefers, not RP'ers. This paragraph pretty much sums up what is causing what you perceive as friction between you and several other people in this thread. First, I don't believe anyone here is criticizing you for having principles. Most of us have principles. You have been disagreed with, certainly, and disagreement can be felt as criticism (and is, by most people). But you have to learn to accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you say. You can argue back all you want, but at that point is has nothing to do with criticism any longer; it's just a disagreement like any other. This next is a two-parter; don't start getting steamed until you read both parts, please. 1. Most of us (myself included) think your irritation with the hidden bite thing is pretty silly and, since it in NO WAY even comes close to being a violation of any LL TOS, Rule of Conduct, or anything else (including most people's view of acceptable behavior), we naturally see your suggestion that someone do something about it equally silly. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. 2. When Progeny "abuse and disrupt" you think they're griefers. We think so too! Anybody who pushes you or harrasses you repeatedly is a griefer (or an idiot; doesn't really matter which). But you don't form a posse and go after griefers. You just block and ignore, and if there are too many to keep up with you just GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you see something truly AR-worthy than use your right to AR. But let it go. That's right. Give up. Stay away from them. It's the only smart thing to do with griefers and it always has been. Ok, I think I need to make myself a lot more clear here, since there seems to be some misunderstandings as to the point I am trying to make. First, I know for a fact that not everyone will agree with my point of view. I understand that, and I totally accept it. It does not make me angry in any way. I also have no problems with people criticizing me, as long as they pay attention to ALL of the facts, instead of just some of them. My problem is not with the disagreements, but the attitude used in them. It is entirely possible for people to have disagreements and debates while treating eachother respectfully, and many in here are doing just that. However, it is my opinion, that certain selected people (dres as an example), seem to enjoy adding a condescending attitude, derogatory remarks, more sarcasm than is appropriate, and to some degree outright judging when they don't have the whole picture (or conveniently ignore the parts that matter). About your two points, first I have said this many times, so I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up as if it was the primary concern...the hidden bites are the least of my worries about progeny. I get the idea of "imagination", and I am very aware that a hidden bite cant hurt my avi. I have never claimed that it does. My only suggestion on dealing with it was to have something similar to the garlic necklace in Bloodlines, so that people who do not wish to participate don't have to. I don't see how that can be considered "silly" in any way. Second, griefing cannot be stopped by blocking anyone. Even derendering doesn't stop the physical effects on your avi. I also have never advocated forming a posse, or even using their own methods against them. There is nothing wrong with making other aware of people who grief, whether vampires or anyone else. In my experience, LL rarely responds to griefers, so what other options do I have? Yes, I know i can always go to another place, but I have my reasons for staying where I do, and the progeny are also in other places as well, so It isn't always easy to avoid them. Sure, I can always just stay on my island, but that's not much of a social experience. The reason why I keep on about this, is not just that they are griefers, but that they are griefing under the guise of their progeny RP. THe PV leadership has the ability to deal with this, they just choose not to when non-players are involved, and THAT is what I am trying to get changed. Progeny has a bunch of in-house rules for behavior towards other progeny, and they have a full court system to handle violations. They have the ability to remove people from the game system for violating their own rules, but for some reason, a progeny abusing a non-player isn't a banable offense. I honestly believe that easly half of all abuse by progeny could be stopped if they would only be willing to listen and act on complaints by non-players.
  11. I'm sorry, I can't really describe it any better than that. I don't know enough about scripting to go into details, i just see what it does. I do know that whatever the force hug does, no permission is asked, as it has been done to me several times. Moving around just drags the offending avi along with you. The only way to break the hug is to tp out of the area. I don't have such an issue with it myself, as I know how to deal with it, but there are often dozens of newbies that the progeny attach to, and they have no idea at all how to handle it. To clarify, the force hug doesnt animate your avatar, it only animates the avi of the person initiating the hug. The first instance of abuse by a progeny was that this individual locked his avi into mine, and then used some sort of an attack hud to knock me around. I was in a no-scripts zone at the time, so I didn't know how he was even able to do it. Since then, I have learned that some scripted huds can be enabled outside of the no script area, then brought in, where it will work. My movelock works that same way. Oddly enough, Social Island has very few griefers, other than come of the progeny. The main problem here is that this area (Social Island) is LL owned, and basically LL ignored for the most part. Contacting the land owner in this case is basically filling out an AR, and we all know how quickly LL responds to those
  12. I suggest you go back to that supposed sage and ask them to explain to you what it means to reply to the post and not the poster. Every critique I've delt you here in this thread has been a direct result of what you yourself have written here in this thread. Yes, I've made observations about your behavior (as described by you) and speculated about what would motivate someone to behave in such a manner. That alone in no way equates to judging someones character as a whole. I did admit to treating you harshly when you first started posting to this thread, having conflated you with Goose and Friends, who'd just started resorting to calling me names because they didn't like what I had to say to them about this specific situation. I apologized to you for that and haven't lumped you in with them since. I suppose that just wasn't drama-inducing enough for you to notice. Perhaps if you'd concentrate more on how you operate on the forums than on how I do, you'd be a whole lot better off. ...Dres Your critiques have consitently ignored at least half of the points that I have brought up, and there is more to the story than what I have written in this thread. Your replies to me have been at best mildly condescending to obviously sarcastic, so excuse me if i have developed a bad impression about you based on that (and prety much every other post of yours I have read, both in this thread and in others. Yes, you did admit that, but i was not aware that I needed to acknowledge it, but again, right here is a perfect example of the judging and condescention ("wasn't drama-inducing enough") that I have been talking about. Contrary to what you might think, this is not, and never has been, about drama. If i wanted drama that badly, don't you think I would be posting FAR more often in the forums as I do? I have very strong feelings on this one subject, but that hardly qualifies me as wanting drama. Well, thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to give it some thought Ok, I'm done thinking about it
  13. Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: I did play with the Progeny system for about a month a few years ago. I got bored and never played again. Have you tried it? No, I have not played it personally, as I am not into being a vampire. I do, however, have several friends who used to play and left for various reasons, and i have also done some research on the subject, including listening to the progeny podcasts.
  14. Innula Zenovka wrote: CleoSertorii wrote: 1. stepping away doesn't always work, because if one of them is feeding, they either continue to follow you around, or they atach a follower script (which is a griefer object) to your avi, preventing you from getting away. I'm trying to visualise what you're describing and having difficulty. You can't -- absent special cases involving RLV or Experience Tools -- "attach" anything to anyone without their consent and cooperation. You can -- assuming you have rezzing rights on that parcel and the parcel allows your objects to run scripts -- rez a follower object, but that simply (as the name suggests) follows the victim around. You can -- again, subject to the parcel permissions -- cage people, and you can script a follower cage. Is that what you mean? Being caged and/or being chased by a follower aren't, of course, common hazards other than maybe in script-enabled sandboxes, because they are both old griefer tricks and any landowner with a grain of sense will set the land permissions to prevent them. It certainly shouldn't be happening in most places. i honestly don't know how it works, but there are "followers" that allow one avi to follow another one around no matter where they go, and even tp'ing out and back doesn't always work as the follower has some sort of auto-reaquire function. They also use "force hugs" that allow them to attach to your avatar in a hug pose. If these griefer items are activated outside of the "no scripts zone", it can be brought inside the no scripts area and used anyway. Many progeny use thes on their "victims" to keep themselves within feeding range. They also use it on eachother when doing their ground level clan wars.
  15. Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Well now... I suppose you've gotten me all figured out. And with access to such little an amount of information... you should be really proud of yourself. ...Dres P.S. Um, I forget... can someone remind me who I have to see in order to renew my Forum Elite membership card? *signs off on Dresden's Forum Elite membership card* There! It is good for another year. You're welcome. It is hard to believe this is still going years later, but I fail to see how this type of role play really impacts anyone that is not part of the Progeny system. Someone stands near you, you have no idea anything is happening, nothing actually DOES happen to your avi, and the virtual/imaginary vampire gets to play whatever role he/she wants in his/her own head. Last I heard fantasizing is not illegal or bad. We ALL fantasize about one thing or another (no, please don't elaborate on your fantasies. I really don't want to know how much of a pervert you are.) If you hang out on Social Island or where ever, you have choices - Take a step further away Log out TP to another of the million locations available in SL Publicly palm that wooden stake you carry in your purse and stake the **bleep**! Cause a big scene and start screaming in public chat about all the pretend vampires taking advantage of your defenseless avi. Come to the forums and announce that they can't have fun the way they want to because their fantasy life offends you in some way. The choices seem to be endless I say let them have their fun, but be warned if one is creeping my avi out by invading her personal space, I will choose option 4 :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2: I suspect you fail to see how this RP (and i use the term very loosely) can "impact" anyone who isn;t part of the system, it likely because you haven't read most of my posts, and haven't had any direct experience with them. I have already repeatedly stated that the invisible bites are not my greatest concern with progeny. The main problem that i see in this thread is we have basically three groups of people...thiose who believe that progeny has some issues that need to be fixed, those who created progeny or are in high positions of leadership (and are therefore very biased in their support), and everybody else who makes comments without having any experience dealing with progeny inworld. It's all well and good for you to criticize our methods of dealing with them, but i would suggest that you get some actual experience before telling us how we should or should not deal with the problem. So, let me address those points that you made... 1. stepping away doesn't always work, because if one of them is feeding, they either continue to follow you around, or they atach a follower script (which is a griefer object) to your avi, preventing you from getting away. 2. logging out sort of defeats the entire purpose of being in SL. 3. TP'ing to another location is always an option, and one that i take advantage of frequently. However, I don't really like the idea of being run out of one of my hangouts when the problem can be solved by the PV system creators. 4. Oh, trust me, if staking them (or being able to fight back in any way) was an option, I would be all for doing that. If they want to be able to RP feeding off of me, I would be more than happy to reciprocate by RP killing their worthless ***. Unfortunately, the PV system doesn't have a way to do that, short of their own Slayer system, which still isn't available to the public after two years. 5. I don't scream in public about the pretend vampires, but I do inform others of their presence. true, many people probably are like most in this thread...they don't care. However, there are some that do care, and they have a right to know about it. 6. If you read back through all of my posts in this thread (i know, i know, probably too much work and you can't be bothered), my purpose is to raise awareness of the issues and hopefully convince the PV creators to make a few minor changes, that could actually enhance their RP experience by adding a bit more of the realism that they claim to crave so much. There are such things as principles, and I am very aware that many people don't believe principles exist in a "game" like SL. I don't generally criticize people for not having them, but at the same time, I don't believe it is right for those people to criticize those of us that DO have principles. Trust me, if PV vamps would just go on their merry way feeding in private, then i wouldn't have even half of the dislike for them that I do, but when they use their progeny status and RP as an excuse to abuse and disrupt, then I look on them as griefers, not RP'ers.
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