Codex Alpha

Yep and I guess I just won't engage in that activity anymore, which is one thing less that I can enjoy in SL. Between lag and these strange antisocial issues - there's not much left frankly. I'm the last hold out of our group of 20 - looks like they were right after all. My latest explorations before dealing with these issues tat seem to be common now resulted in 1 x Land Rental discovered, 1 x Land Purchase discovered, and a few random products from stores that I would hae never heard of - but they got sales because of exploration. That will be gone too now, because if this is how it's going to be - not interested. But hey , I'm just one person right? Not important right?

I can respect your boundaries and still ask that you have a reasonable warning time on your orb, so that I may continue on my way (legitimately) and you still get the protection you need.

My position was to set the eject orb to a reasonable delay to give time for people to leave the parcel whether they flew over it, into it, tp'd into it, purposefully entered it - as it is a reasonable thing to do for most occasions, and that you wouldn't be effectively 'sniping' people as they do. I and NO ONE has advocated the removal of your boundaries, your privacy or any right or entitlement to explore your property. I also proposed that if ejecting to a nearby parcel was not possible (with programming it's not hard), then perhaps a dedicated safe area in the region, so that one does not lose their place. The owner of a 0 delay orb (sometimes even rigged with insta-ban) is not simply 'directing' one home, but forcefully causing them to teleport right out of the region. With that much power, comes some responsibility and some courtesy. 0 second ejects + teleport someone home severely inhibits one's reasonable enjoyment of the Mainland regions. You still haven't told me why you believe 0 ejects and tp's home are completely necessary, and to the exclusion of any middle solution. Good, so we agree. Give people ample warning, and that was all that was asked. Yet 15 seconds would be reasonable, and would still have the same effect and result that you want. I'm pretty sure orbs also have functions that will permanently ban someone who is repeatedly and clearly entering your parcel with ill intentions. Count to 15, see how long it is. What can an 'invader' or even the most hostile person do in 15 seconds to anything or you on your parcel? Again, if you feel that SL is so hostile in that matter, and that you are constantly being annoyed, harassed, assaulted and put upon, perhaps a public area is not for you, and you would be a prime candidate for a private server, or even a 'on demand' world like Sansar provides, where you can block everyone from ever coming in. The ultimate privacy. I don't know all about that. My position was about eject orb delays and how they could be tweaked so that everyone on both sides are happy. You are a prime candidate for private spaces away from Mainland and the rest of the majority of Second Lifers. What you want is a 'safe space'. The problem is that it is impossible to guarantee a safe space for everyone, and if a governance tries, that means everyone else has to change their complete way of doing things, in order to accommodate the person who needs it. It is an incredibly selfish stance to take, and comes at great cost (especially in real life) when a 'safe space' must be guaranteed for everyone at all times - so that no one can do or say or act on anything. The solution for you is to seek a private server for yourself. Or you can simply and more easily set your eject orb to 15 seconds. Thanks. Now continue on with your SL day and have fun.

Just set your eject delay to a more reasonable time frame, so that people aren't sniped as they go by, through over. You still haven't made an argument as to why you need a 0 second delay and why you are entitled to cause someone to be ejected right back to their home - losing their place and progress in the world. No one wants to deny you the tools to protect your privacy, nor do they advocate free access to your land, none of that. Are you purposefully ignoring this point, or are just responding as you see fit? I am proposing that 1) O second delays be disallowed, perhaps to a minimum of 15 seconds. 2) It's probably LL's side that I would advocate that I am ejected to a nearby parcel or home parcel in each region Do you disagree with these two propositions? If so , why? You've made a lot of responses but never to these points made. Unless you want to stick with 'just because', well then...

No one is advocating for this.

This is why it's good to read the OP and the following posts, as NO ONE is advocating for such a thing.

I'm very confused by you. You agree with me several times in the post - and that it would be reasonable to accommodate explorers - whilst maintaining the integrity of private land owners.. but you seem to just want to fight instead... You said previously below: Maybe you forgot what we were discussing here.

Well said. Yep, and that's why I and others have tried to address this and bring it to LL's attention so that it could be considered again, and always promoting that a solution can be found that suits both parties. Instead, the response from other SL'ers is that harsh draconian measures are needed - because apparently SL is rampant with harassment and ill-doers - and will even go so far as to attempt to portray that I'm one of them - simply because of a position I hold. Yep, and this and other issues like this, and some of the behaviour and anti-social attitudes that SL has seemed to become more about as time has gone on, is contributing to people first not coming back - and may discourage new users from joining. I'm hoping that those who participate most on the forums are not representative of the majority of SL'ers out there, but they are certainly the loudest, so it's impossible to tell if they represent the opinions of the majority here. Yep, my account is due up pretty soon, and I'm making a decision about it soon. I've commented before in other topics, how it seems I'm paying more, but for less service and access - and so it's increasingly becoming harder to warrant the Premium sub each year unless real value is added.

I am amazed at how you appeared to reply to the statement of mine that you quoted - then actually address nothing that I said, nor is what you said counter to anything I said. No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person. What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable.

Why is it that I and others can't get the same courtesy that you would like to afford them? This is why people try to meet in the middle of any issue, and come up with a reasonable solution. Not all parties will be 100% happy, but that's what happens when an agreement is finally met. "Because it's their land" in RL wouldn't allow a landowner to blow someone away on their land, with no warning, or before a reasonable request to leave the property (then give them reasonable time to do so) - and every court of law will back this up. Being a landowner isn't a license to blow people away. I did not speak in the concepts of 'right to' do anything. Landowners have a right to privacy, and everyone else has the right to free and reasonable (the word being reasonable) access to Mainland (which this is about) areas in SL where this is happening. I wish you well, but I don't think I can rephrase or make my position clearer at this point. And I'm not sure why you are still being counter to me, because you've already agreed with me: See we agree.

There is no reason why you should have to adjust your use of SL, especially if you pay for it, to what amounts as LESS service than what you had previously, and many people lose out on opportunities, eg. That store owner you com across as you explore. That affordable land rental/purchase that you may never have known about. The fun of exploring and finding new things and new people to meet. Instead, We could just create an easy solution that will work out for everyone; 1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds. 2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own. No one has suggested that they take away this functionality from private people, but that their effect on other SL residents is within reason. I don't know how hard that is to conceptualize. We only have a right to protect ourselves, in SL or RL, and not impose our will and force upon others in the process. I made no demands, only suggestions to solve unpleasant experiences, and that benefit BOTH parties involved. However if I did make a demand, please quote when I or anyone else ever did so. I haven't really heard any argument as to why someone would need a 0 second orb, or why they feel they're entitled to basically nuking an avatar back to their home, and i did provide reasons why doing so is not to the benefit of anyone. But if you try sometimes... you get what you need! If LL deems it as reasonable to allow 0 second orbs and to forcefully remove people from an entire region and send them back home - there is nothing any of us can do about it - but I'm just presenting a rational reason for them to consider changing their mind on this - it's up to them in the end, but I'm going to make a case. It's not unfair to have some regulation (otherwise known as 'best practices') if something in SL is found to be abused. It's not regulation, it's a revamping of a function that hopefully balances the need for privacy and the respectful treatment of PAYING Second Lifers. I also made a case as to what gets lost in the process as a result - the least of it being bad blood between SL'ers - which is toxic to a platform. Well yeah, in RL there is still a reasonable time to expect someone to get off your land when you request it, or it becomes trespassing. 15 seconds in many cases wouldn't be enough.. The key word here is 'reasonable'. 0 second eject orbs, insta-ban scripts (in relation to those), and giving control to that script owner to completely send that avatar 'home' is not, and I gave many reasons why.

Right now, there is a well-known creator with an outdated link to their inworld store, that teleports right into the kitchen of someone who lives there now. No eject orb in that case, I am glad was able to have time to get my bearings, pull up the map, and see what was around, or if the store was off to the side somewhere.

No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person. What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable. I think it is better to only use scripts or methods to ensure your own privacy, that leasts affects the enjoyment and reasonable free movement of your fellow SL'ers, who the majority of mean you no harm - and that using such scripts are used in moderation - especially those who forcefully send someone's avatar home. It's funny how people can AR others for using scripts that limit their avatar's movement, or entrap them, or otherwise manipulate them, but then eject orb users feel it's perfectly fine to do it in that situation. The most reasonable solution that makes everyone happy is: 1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds. 2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own. No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person. What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable. Sure, now extend the same courtesy to people who might come across your parcel, who are there through no malicious intent of their own - and to treat them with patience and kindness. Yes, and perhaps these users could use a privately dedicated space (on demand type of service), so that they won't be exposed to the SL user masses. Or we could just create an easy solution that will work out for everyone; 1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds. 2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own. Sad huh. It's like finally applying a "When In Rome" principle when it seems that there is no interest from others around you to be reasonable, and then you have to resort to such things. But then it just makes SL more antisocial and hostile than before. Of course this stuff didn't happen overnight, this kind of behaviour has been growing, and perhaps it's time for LL to step in again and regulate some stuff - especially eject orbs. Sure, now please extend the same courtesy for your fellow SL'ers and their approach of their use of SL - especially on the topic of balancing the ability to explore (and all the benefits it has for fun, and even profit for store owners and land renters/sellers) and others need for privacy. The solutions have been prevented - why not support it, or at least offer a counter-explanation as to why you need 0 second orbs? Yep. At some point people have to accept that there is a balance between privacy, and allowing the free flow of reasonable access And if their needs for privacy outweighs an average need, perhaps a private region is in order, or like you said, go load an OpenSim on localhost where noone will ever bother them - ever. This is why we can live in a society (at least in the West) where people can knock on your door and say "hello" - yet of course they'd never enter your house. If we made it so noone could step on your driveway for any reason - it would actually work against a free and civil society. No one wants people's privacy taken away, no one has said that protections should be removed - but some are obsessed with this as if it's an all or nothing proposition. No one is suggesting to take that away from you. Some people seem lost on this point. To me, it makes no sense to park in a relatively 'public' area - which the majority of SL'ers have a reasonable expectation to move in and explore - and some are willing to go to great lengths - to the point of abusive practices - to try to gain themselves 100% privacy. Those users should be pointed to private island rentals, or as I proposed before, that LL Could Consider On-Demand Parcels/Lands/Worlds for those who seem to need it the most. Seemingly though, some are simply not looking for solutions, but to just double down on their views - which heavily relies on the assumption that other SL'ers are a threat, hostile and chronic griefers, trolls and abusers. This is not healthy for the platform.

No,I just wish you took the incident as defined in my original post. Take it as a compliment, as you have no personal connection with this person, and they're not doing it to mock you. It's just a person who liked what you did and imitated it. You and I don't know anything about the person's state of mind or intention and we have to leave it at that. If you felt that you had to move away because of it, it would be understandable - I doubt it would ever happen again, and this is probably just a unique experience that won't repeat itself

So in the meantime, encourage creators to optimize their assets they submit to the platform.

Good, then we agree.

Good then we agree.

My position was not to give LL 'full control' of your orbs. However if 0 seconds and insta-bans are severely disrupting the enjoyment or reasonable traversal of "MAINLAND' (aka PUBLIC ACCESS) lands, then actions need to be taken. Just because they could consider regulating it or limiting it to a more reasonable delay, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. I would hope and think that people could be reasonable and fair, but as you can see most are not, and are happy to enact 0 second ejects (to their HOME) and even insta-bans without blinking an eye. So who wins the argument? A paying customer vs a paying customer and all things equal? My solutions IS reasonable: Disallow 0 second ejects, limit to a more reasonable delay (15-30 seconds), and eject to a nearby parcel or friendly reserved area in the region so they don't lose their place. I have yet to still read a reasonable counterargument to this or a counter solution that could solve this issue. Isn't that what we all want? So why does it have to be all or nothing?

Yes, okay thanks. Apparently after 30 years on the internet and in 100s of software interfaces and dealing in them and designing in them, all that goes out the window when it comes to Second Life and LL products. I learn something new (and how SL does things) each and every day 😕 Tip #5783: Grayed out = available (Second Life)

No, that has never been the proposition. The proposition for 10 or 15 years or as long as this has been going on, is - TO LIMIT AUTO EJECT BOTS TO 30 SECONDS, that gives reasonable time for the MAJORITY OF NON MALICIOUS EXPLORERS to exit the parcel - TO EJECT TO A NEARBY PARCEL (or central park in each region) INSTEAD OF SENDING THEM HOME - TO RESPECT EVERYONE'S AVATAR ESPECIALLY IF PEOPLE ARE GIVEN POWER OVER IT. It's always been ABOUT REASONABLE SOLUTIONS. Maybe LL just loves watching us divide ourselves and argue about all of this WHEN A SIMPLE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO LIMIT EJECT TIMERS. NOT EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY BUT IT IS FAIR.

Look, all the usual crowd has shown up to scold and educate the OP on what is acceptable or not, while the OP is only wanting a reasonable accordance. Yet again the same weirdos post accusations and continue to portray the majority of SLers as creeps, trolls and griefers. That is an accusation and a lie, and toxic to portray Second Lifers as such. And you appear to be doing what you normally do. Portraying others as having ill intentions or malicious intentions and that SL is full of people who want to grief you, invade your land, etc. Irrelevant. A 30 second delay before ejecting someone is more than enough to have the intended effect. If you wanted to add an insta-ban should they return for a second or third time in only a few minutes then I could agree with you that their intentions may not be good, or are part of an ongoing grief. If you're going to use such scripts, they should be used respectfully and fairly, or LL should just take them away from you. So? Why say a statement that is pointing out the negative, and absolute MINORITY of SL users and their experience. yeah "IF" this "IF' that, and seriously how many times has this little story you type actually happened to you? Once? in 2004? Once again, no one was arguing to remove your Orb, since it seems that YOUR second life experience is rife with harassment, creeps and victimhood. Al the OP was asking for, and so was I in a related post, that orbs are limited to a reasonable use - and if people can't do it on their own then LL should step in and limit it.

But then she would have to admit that she is 'creepy' camming on her neighbours Yeah it gets a bit ridiculous around here sometimes huh? This topic is just exposing all the fearful Paranoid Pattys and Suspicious Sallys... and starts to look a bit concerning on their own accounts, lol OMG op lol you are funny. Now you are the creep now hee hee Haha, there is no victim here though Yes. Some of the responses in this thread point to more issues than the person who just likes how the OP decorated and decided to imitate to some level or another - and shouldn't really be a cause for concern. And the op wouldn't even know unless she was engaging in the same behaviour she and others call 'creepy' camming other houses too lol. Haha man, the hypocrisy and just delusion of many here is profound, sometimes entertaining and a lesson in human psychology all in one. This is the best attitude to take, and should be practiced in SL, and taken into consideration by many before they post about alleged stalkings, creepy people and victimhood that is so prevalent here. If it bothers someone so much, then they should just move to another location, or get that 'private' parcel they care so much about - far far away from the rest of SL users so they never have to suffer such 'trauma' again on a virtual platform. Posts like seen on this topic and some of the responses show there are some issues that the OP and responder are dealing with - and could use their own form of therapy, or at least a countering view that can temper them a bit and get them back on the narrow path back to reality and what matters.

Well of course emulating someone vs stalking them are two different things. If it is truly the same person and not just because you are so obviously super amazing that people want to copy you , then yes it may be a cause for concern.

If we default to thinking the best of others and their intentions, then yes - don't worry - it is the "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". They like and admire what you do and how you designed your home, and want to replicate it in their home. Take it as a compliment. Most people go through an imitation and emulation stage before sprouting out into their own projects as they get their legs. There's also a lot of responses that "This is creepy and would make me feel uncomfortable" but if you realize these are just 'feelings' and nothing of any real threat or reality of the situation - then discard such things. If it is unbearable, then I guess a move is in order. Can't stop people camming and exploring and doing their thing, and there is no such thing or true 'watching' of anyone in a virtual space. If someone wants to cam around my property and watch me stand there looking at a cube or sitting at a desk all power to them. It's part of Second Life and anyone who would declare otherwise you should cam explore their property even harder in response. Though it's almost impossible for me to copy other people's work, I will most certainly study and deconstruct other people's work, and let it inspire my own work and encourage me to up my game to meet or beat their creation - it is certainly done with the most appreciation, admiration and reverence for their work.