Codex Alpha
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Posts posted by Codex Alpha
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[Redacted by moderator]
3 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:Oh yeah, with new people I could see how they might not understand the difference and not expect to be barred from certain areas.
But I mean...orbs, eject, tp home - this stuff has been around a thousand years. Not sure why it's suddenly a problem now - for those who are not brand new.
As I have stated at least in my own experience that it is more common now - and that if it wasn't happening so much to be noticeable then I probably wouldn't have even posted about it myself. All I know is my usage of Second Life hasn't changed, but the community and environment in world most certainly have.
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On 5/29/2022 at 2:13 PM, ChinRey said:
Don't hold your hopes up too high. Physical Based Rendering only means exactly what the phrase says; there is no standard for it and we have no idea how LL will interpret it.
I have a feeling Unity's metallic map system is what is on top of your mind but that's a Unity speciality and not in any way standard for PBR. LL may well argue that their current system with RGB specular maps cover the metallicness well enough and leave it at that - or they may come up with a completely different solution. Really, the only two things missing before SL's ALM can be called PBR are Fresnel reflection and microsurface scattering. (Fresnel reflection is going to be interesting btw, considering all the heavy edge shading that is common in SL.)
Besides, even if LL decides to emulate Unity's take on PBR, you still can't expect content to be directly transferable between the two platforms with good results. Second Life has a very limited dynamic (color) range, three completely different sets of shaders (all of them completely different from Unity's), a single dominant light source that is usually located right above the scene and rather crude and outdated ambient lighting. All of these are factors you have to take into account if you want your brilliant works of art to really shine in a Second Life environment.
I got spoiled with PBR in Sansar - it's such an intuitive workflow, and can be transfered to Unity (though Unity seems more geared by default still to SPC/GLS too) - only started investigating Unreal recently has it's own but also easy PBR.
For SL, I think I've got a good handle on my workflow to go PBR -> SPC/GLS conversion - but on the newer products I made are more complaints as amazingly I ran into the issue of many people still not using ALM. My view usually originates in wanting the standardization of things for ease of creating and workflow. With newer tech like Sansar the platform may not be the greatest yet to build on, but it is far easier to upload and manage everything out of the gate.
My goal was to create my projects in PBR as I have in the last 3 years, which I enjoy, then develop a workflow to accommodate SL usage - the other engines are minimal tweaks. It's only SL that takes a bit more work now - from textures to LODs, etc. I was spoiled! haha
I look forward to you checking out my work once I open a store, check out how I'm doing on materials and such, would value your feedback greatly. Have a nice day, always appreciate your posts through the years...
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7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:
All those screen shots after people were TP'd home, showing details on being ejected / teleported are lies! Lies, I tell you!
You tell 'em!
Hey if I missed something and can pull the messages back up, as well as the OWNER of it, that would be great. I would have expected the messages to be found in the chat, or msg window, but when I looked I couldn't retrieve them. Would be good to know for everyone who might read this topic in the future and who want to file an AR.
7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:What a lot of posts for something that has been around very long and will not change any time soon.
Orbs are part of SL, just like lag, limited people on a sim and expensive land.
Deal with it or walk away. It is that simple.Nah, we're going to post about it to get LL's attention and perhaps get it changed - as it actually is in the best interest for new and old user experience, and that 0 second eject scripts are affecting other users a bit too much.
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20 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:
Bingo!!! and in that governing ourselves is the decision about what people want to do with their property and the tools provided. So we are in agreement then
This is the thing about rights. Our rights begin and end with ourselves. Govern yourself indeed - I agree.
However when you use scripts that forcefully eject and transport other user's avatars not only from your parcel, but out of the region, and if it happens a lot in a particular area - then you are going outside governing yourself, and there could be grounds for a user to file an Abuse Report.
Hard to do though, because 0 second ejects by nature happen so fast that one wouldn't even know what or who triggered it, or who owned the parcel in order to file a report to start with. I've seen people file ARs on less offensive actions... so why wouldn't this be included as it far surpasses other offenses because it happens to legitimate users.
8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:I noticed (had forgotten) that Linden Homes, Belli / Sakura in this case, have settings to only allow certain users.
Without using banning / ejecting / teleport-home devices.
So - doesn't that mean they already have the requested "privacy" without using devices / ejection / teleport-home?
A white-list system by default might also be a good solution. One can have their privacy, and wouldn't affect anyone else in the process. I would think a private parcel, island or 'instance' might suit those people more - they just don't want to pay - but at least a whitelist is more sensible.
Would take more work though than simply negating any 0-second eject ability on "mainland" or 'public' regions not designed to ensure 100% privacy.
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10 hours ago, kali Wylder said:
I do like to fly over the terrain of SL. Getting booted or warned and booted is inconvenient but it's not earth shattering.
Of course it isn't. It's annoying but can be dealt with - until it happens too often (more often than even 5 years ago) and with the addition of 0 second orbs - and some I notice with an even more obnoxious "insta-ban" included - then it's not so fun, and underscores just how antisocial SL has become over the last 10 years - or that people are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by taking extreme actions to ensure their privacy in a region that was never designed to be private for them. So in order to get their 100% privacy, they are using tactics that are affecting SL users new and old - and has been one of the contributing factors to people I know leaving in the past (as part of a whole "Nah, SL is unfriendly") reason of leaving, or coming and exploring and experiencing a strange kick or ban or harsh words almost out of the gate, and not wanting to be part of that.
10 hours ago, kali Wylder said:I had to go digging in my inventory to read up on this and I decided I would give the 15 seconds as suggested which is more than enough time to fly through my little parcel.
Well in that extreme and exceptional case, you can take solace that it is a virtual space and no one can really hurt you at all, and the human naked body isn't much to be shocked by, especially if you're a grown adult.
15 seconds is a reasonable delay, that should handle most cases without affecting people too much.
It will be annoying to be traveling around dodging 15 second orbs... but hey it's better than nothing. 0 Seconds are not reasonable and overly affect a resident's access and enjoyment of SL.
10 hours ago, Bagnu said:Interestingly enough, this sort of thing doesn't seem to happen in adult areas. Maybe because the griefers know they aren't actually causing a commotion. They don't get the response they want. My wife and I would just laugh at that, saying they are "compensating" for something.
Yes it's amazing when you just treat them with patience (or indifference) or remain calm or even just laugh at their antics.
People don't realize, trolls and griefers are not born - they are made. If you ask many of them they will relate to you experiences in the past dealing with overly hostile or sensitive people - that may have affected them in one way or another - maybe even getting them unfairly disciplined or even banned - so they make a point of returning with a vengeance.
Basically the nicer and more patient people are - the less they get trolled.
In my experience, even the worst (accused) 'trolls' will settle down if you show a little patience, or just laugh at their antics. It's a virtual world, and nothing they do can truly hurt us - and nothing is easier than a 0.0001 second mouse click to remove them if they're that bad. So far I haven't run into anyone I couldn't handle - and many of them settle down and become normal people in the community.
10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:Just wondering exactly how many 0 sec orbs are out there. Although these stats are a few years old and before Belli, it seems the majority of mainland is NOT owned by residents therefore not covered by any security. Or am I reading this wrong?
- 57% of Mainland owned directly by Linden Accounts (Contiguous Mainland is 6806 regions including Linden Home regions)
- 20.7% to 21.4% of Mainland by area is abandoned parcels
Enough or I wouldn't have felt I needed to post about it. I understand experiences may vary as we are all different people, but what sparked me to post my own topic on it was that I recently started exploring again probably after 3 years - and the landscape and experience is much different than I remember - and I was getting hit with way too many 0 seconds, and it seemed like every second parcel was warning, warning, warning.. kinda sucked.
10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:I live on adult mainland and I've had a couple naked men TP to me on my sky platform so it does happen. Private islands, not so much.
Haha, the irony of this post I had to spotlight. Yes private islands it won't happen to you as much. This is why if people want 100% privacy, but do it in a Mainland (non-private) region - and have to resort to measures that can seriously interrupt other SL'ers experience of the platform - then perhaps they're in the wrong area and should seek out (and pay for) that privacy they need.
7 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:It would be exceptionally unreasonable to expect the masses of SL to also have to trawl through the knowledge base looking for additional rules that might apply as well.
9 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:What good would that do? It would be sufficiently unenforceable as to make no difference to anyone's travelling experience. Take a look at mainland if you believe differently and play the game of how many TOS violations can I find. LL simply don't appear to have the resources to commit to proper sustained TOS enforcement over mainland and haven't in many years. This is what such action would require.
It is not possible to "fix" this with such simple changes. The fact that the mainland status quo remains after all these years speaks volumes.
Sure it is. Just go into the code and change MIN_KICK_SECONDS = 15. Don't need any script changes, no big overhaul, just a quiet edit of a simple constant. Then if I set my own KICK_SECONDS to 0, the underlying api will ignore it.
8 hours ago, AnthonyJoanne said:What people should take away from this is that LL need to make ban lines that actually work, and that don't screw up people who fly/drive/whatever into them. And we all know that is not going to happen.
Ban lines are effective. I can't enter their parcel at all, and arguably are the least offensive measure, as there is no control being taken over my avatar - or teleporting me back home out of the region - and losing my place. It sucks thinking "Oh there's a rental plot by the water" and be flying towards it when ZAP - you barely get a notice come up on screen that said something something 0 seconds, and you're warped back home. Early in my SL when this would happen, I had no idea what was causing it - I thought I had hit my Home shortcut somehow LOL.
At least ban lines will just block you from moving around, to the point where if two adjoining parcels have ban lines, you won't be able to even fly through at all..
To me it seems counter-intuitive to have a "Mainland" or public area, but then to allow it to be a gauntlet of orbs and ban walls.
7 hours ago, Female Winslet said:I currently have three premium accounts. At least some of them will not be renewed because of the situation with orbs and such. The premium fee is a tiny item in my budget, frankly. But I am tired of funding LL’s refusal to address the situation.
The great thing about SL is there really is something for everyone. LL says it’s supposed to be a community oriented, social space. But there is ample space for misanthropes who don’t want to participate in that. Just not in the middle of everybody else where their antisocial actions are disruptive. That’s the thing about community. One persons actions always affect others. And it’s always about more than just “me me me me me.”
Yes, in the sense that if you had started paying your Premium 10 or more years ago, one could argue that there is LESS value today and LESS access and even LESS of a positive experience than 10 years ago. It's hard for a company to say "We want more customers, and lots of them" but then the community itself by it's actions discourages growth. Thinking of not resubscribing to a Premium is not a threat - it's a result of measuring "What am I getting for the price paid, and does the value and experience exceed the pain of losing $$$ in the process".
7 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:There are communities in SL, including on mainland who agree to do things a certain way. It is entirely possible to be part of them. Mainland as a whole however is definitely not a community. If LL felt that way about mainland, there would be a covenant in place. Actions speak louder than words.
Or maybe they expect that we as grown adults can govern ourselves - and that they don't have to be holding our hands and be doting parents over us all the time. Frankly I like it when staff stays out of it, and doesn't come running to the rescue of any random person screaming "offense! assault!". It's only when a Resident through their actions becomes a problem to the enjoyment of others that they should step in - or regulate certain things should they be abused - such as eject scripts.
7 hours ago, Female Winslet said:My point exactly. And the reason I’ve been cutting what I pay to LL over the last few months. As you say, actions do speak louder than words. And LL says they want to have a community. Their actions say otherwise. And I‘ve been voting with my $$$. I’m sure others will too.
Everyone loses though. Exploring gives people opportunity to have their land rentals and land sales found organically, and store owners or those who have a cool little attraction that you may have never seen otherwise - results in sales and tips, etc.
Most people aren't going to tolerate being blocked, banned and ejected randomly - if they even realize who and how it's being done (new people don't) - and all that goes down the drain, and maybe even that new resident leaves never to return.
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Relevant Topics and the responses that show there is a need for and a demand for more privacy lots in SL
for those individuals who do not want to engage with or be exposed to the general user base, and who may take measures that infringe on the enjoyment and free exploration of other users - might be better served with private regions.
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9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:
The complaints here are from a few people demanding the rights to enter all locations without distinction under the guise of "exploration". It's not enough that they can already wander free to their hearts content almost everywhere. They are aggressively advocating specifically for the additional right to enter the few places they are not permitted because the owner of the location has chosen, for their own personal reasons, not to permit it.
That those last remaining few people should be forced to permit unwanted entry.
If that's starting to sound creepy in the worst possible way, that's because it absolutely is, those pushing for it here have demonstrated a complete inability to even consider that someone might have a boundary that doesn't in some way carve out an exception for themselves.
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8 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:
These orbs have been available since at least 2010. Thomas Conover, one of the first advanced orb designers, has a custom box of any shape restriction option in his orbs for years. He is no longer selling orbs in SL, although he sold many thousands of them before all the copycat sellers entered the market.
People don't use this customization because they are too lazy or stupid. Easier to just select entire parcel and Warning time = 0 seconds. Because - they can...
Yep and I guess I just won't engage in that activity anymore, which is one thing less that I can enjoy in SL. Between lag and these strange antisocial issues - there's not much left frankly. I'm the last hold out of our group of 20 - looks like they were right after all.
My latest explorations before dealing with these issues tat seem to be common now resulted in 1 x Land Rental discovered, 1 x Land Purchase discovered, and a few random products from stores that I would hae never heard of - but they got sales because of exploration.
That will be gone too now, because if this is how it's going to be - not interested. But hey , I'm just one person right? Not important right?
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2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:
The problem is not my desire to be spared the unwelcome intrusions of people who obviously have no concept of boundaries at all.
Talking like the entire concept of respecting other people's space and privacy is just weird and alien.
YIKES
I can respect your boundaries and still ask that you have a reasonable warning time on your orb, so that I may continue on my way (legitimately) and you still get the protection you need.
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24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:
As an explorer I've accidentally veered into private property that booted me home. Realizing I infringed a boundary where someone owned their home and set clear boundaries regarding who was permitted to enter, I TP'd back to the general area if it was an interesting one and continued my journey. The thought never crossed my mind to ask them to change their boundaries for me, or to cause me to invade some other parcel on the sim rather than direct me to my own home (per your 2nd suggestion).
My position was to set the eject orb to a reasonable delay to give time for people to leave the parcel whether they flew over it, into it, tp'd into it, purposefully entered it - as it is a reasonable thing to do for most occasions, and that you wouldn't be effectively 'sniping' people as they do.
I and NO ONE has advocated the removal of your boundaries, your privacy or any right or entitlement to explore your property.
I also proposed that if ejecting to a nearby parcel was not possible (with programming it's not hard), then perhaps a dedicated safe area in the region, so that one does not lose their place.
The owner of a 0 delay orb (sometimes even rigged with insta-ban) is not simply 'directing' one home, but forcefully causing them to teleport right out of the region. With that much power, comes some responsibility and some courtesy.
0 second ejects + teleport someone home severely inhibits one's reasonable enjoyment of the Mainland regions.
You still haven't told me why you believe 0 ejects and tp's home are completely necessary, and to the exclusion of any middle solution.
24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:As an explorer I would certainly rather be given a warning so I could fly away quickly and continue on my journey without such disruption.
Good, so we agree. Give people ample warning, and that was all that was asked.
24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:but I'm aware there are many griefers and invaders of homes, and that more than likely it was set so strictly so the home owner would not be forced to deal with an invader for even 15 seconds. Forcing them to deal with an annoying invader is far worse than me having a minor disruption during my exploration.
Yet 15 seconds would be reasonable, and would still have the same effect and result that you want. I'm pretty sure orbs also have functions that will permanently ban someone who is repeatedly and clearly entering your parcel with ill intentions.
Count to 15, see how long it is. What can an 'invader' or even the most hostile person do in 15 seconds to anything or you on your parcel?
Again, if you feel that SL is so hostile in that matter, and that you are constantly being annoyed, harassed, assaulted and put upon, perhaps a public area is not for you, and you would be a prime candidate for a private server, or even a 'on demand' world like Sansar provides, where you can block everyone from ever coming in. The ultimate privacy.
24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:I don't think you recognize or admit it's a problem -- these invaders. You accused people of exaggerating the issue or making SL'ers out to be creeps by voicing their displeasure over it earlier in the thread, demonstrating you just don't get it is very bothersome for some people and they have a right to complain and set boundaries so they aren't affected by it. It's like you can't believe it's a problem for them just because you don't experience it, or else think they should handle the situation the way you do or imagine you would. But everyone is not you, or like you, nor should they be. Boundaries, Codex.
I don't know all about that.
My position was about eject orb delays and how they could be tweaked so that everyone on both sides are happy.
13 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:There is no way any such difference can be assumed. If you have been stalked or harassed in SL, every single unknown person entering your personal space is a threat.
How, exactly, do you propose one tell the difference between a harmless "explorer" and creeper or stalker.
You are a prime candidate for private spaces away from Mainland and the rest of the majority of Second Lifers.
What you want is a 'safe space'. The problem is that it is impossible to guarantee a safe space for everyone, and if a governance tries, that means everyone else has to change their complete way of doing things, in order to accommodate the person who needs it. It is an incredibly selfish stance to take, and comes at great cost (especially in real life) when a 'safe space' must be guaranteed for everyone at all times - so that no one can do or say or act on anything.
The solution for you is to seek a private server for yourself.
Or you can simply and more easily set your eject orb to 15 seconds. Thanks. Now continue on with your SL day and have fun.
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5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:
It is accessible, it has public roads, waterways and innumerable public builds. Just like real life.
However, there is mixed in with that a whole lot of private and personal spaces. Just like real life.
Your ability to "explore" in SL is no different. You don't get to randomly enter private houses.
Truly fortunate you haven't had to deal with this to the point its become an actual problem and a orb was the best solution.
Don't forget that for people who rent mainland, a security orb is their ONLY option for any parcel privacy. Are you suggesting people who rent are just SOL?
If mainland came with a right of way for random "explorers" then it would be in the covenant or baked into the platforms rules. It isn't. It has been confirmed many times that security orbs are acceptable, even ones that eject or port home with zero delay, on mainland.
You will note that Belli has different rules and is far more "explorer" friendly, they even go as far as to ban 3rd party orbs entirely.
Could it be you've been working with an incorrect assumption about mainland all along?
Just set your eject delay to a more reasonable time frame, so that people aren't sniped as they go by, through over. You still haven't made an argument as to why you need a 0 second delay and why you are entitled to cause someone to be ejected right back to their home - losing their place and progress in the world.
No one wants to deny you the tools to protect your privacy, nor do they advocate free access to your land, none of that. Are you purposefully ignoring this point, or are just responding as you see fit?
I am proposing that
1) O second delays be disallowed, perhaps to a minimum of 15 seconds.
2) It's probably LL's side that I would advocate that I am ejected to a nearby parcel or home parcel in each region
Do you disagree with these two propositions? If so , why? You've made a lot of responses but never to these points made.
Unless you want to stick with 'just because', well then...
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15 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:
I am a vehicle enthusiast and an exploration advocate but vehemently disagree with the sentiments expressed about having rights to go where people don't want you to go on their land.
No one is advocating for this.
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4 minutes ago, LunaRavencroft said:
OR....
Perhaps, it's YOU, whom aren't entitled to go wherever YOU decide, just because YOU want to.
Perhaps, it's YOU, that should not intrude into other people's homes uninvited.
Perhaps, then, YOU would not be causing them to need security orbs.
This is why it's good to read the OP and the following posts, as NO ONE is advocating for such a thing.
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5 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:
I don't think any of us has said that. I think we just want our privacy and if we want to set the orb how we want. That is our choice. So how is it draconian? You are expecting, no wait demanding that people follow some arbitrary rule that doesn't exist. As it is called common courtesy and not a rule. You are basically stating that people need to give you ample amount of time to get off, and not send you home. No, they don't need to be accomodating at all for you, on their own land. How many times do people have to repeat themselves?
I'm very confused by you. You agree with me several times in the post - and that it would be reasonable to accommodate explorers - whilst maintaining the integrity of private land owners.. but you seem to just want to fight instead...
You said previously below:
On 5/30/2022 at 8:19 AM, Sammy Huntsman said:I thought it had to be 15 seconds maximum, before it kicked you out. Especially for people who are flying on mainland and accidentally hit one of them.
On 5/30/2022 at 8:43 AM, Sammy Huntsman said:But still I know lots of people fly planes on mainland and I would think it would be nice to give us fair warning and time to exit. But that is only my opinion.
On 5/30/2022 at 9:08 AM, Sammy Huntsman said:It is kinda ironic eh. But no I think in most cases people aren't going into someone elses house and looking around. they are exploring mainland when bam they hit that orb and get sent back home and their plane or boat gets lost on mainland.
Maybe you forgot what we were discussing here.
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11 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:
I formerly owned a couple of airports, a preserve in the snow lane where I held holiday events for the entire grid, and a few other things that I did mostly in hopes of positively contributing to the community. I finally discontinued all of that because I got tired of the way that some people feel like they should have a right to plop themselves down in the middle of the community and make themselves a disruption by teleporting home anyone who dares to set a virtual toe across the borderline. It’s kinda like if I bought my home in real life and setup a surface to air missile battery to shoot down any plane that dares to overfly my property. I’ve not yet heard any such a person even attempt to justify why that is a positive contribution to the grid as a whole. But it sure does inhibit exploration and, as a result, use of the places I spent a lot of money in for people to enjoy.
Well said.
Yep, and that's why I and others have tried to address this and bring it to LL's attention so that it could be considered again, and always promoting that a solution can be found that suits both parties.
Instead, the response from other SL'ers is that harsh draconian measures are needed - because apparently SL is rampant with harassment and ill-doers - and will even go so far as to attempt to portray that I'm one of them - simply because of a position I hold.
11 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:LL has said in the past that it wants the grid to be a social, welcoming environment. And the current interest in the metaverse is a huge opportunity for LL to capitalize because Second Life is basically the most developed metaverse around. But doing that means a certain degree of caretaking and cultivation of community.
Yep, and this and other issues like this, and some of the behaviour and anti-social attitudes that SL has seemed to become more about as time has gone on, is contributing to people first not coming back - and may discourage new users from joining.
I'm hoping that those who participate most on the forums are not representative of the majority of SL'ers out there, but they are certainly the loudest, so it's impossible to tell if they represent the opinions of the majority here.
11 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:At this point, LL has a rule requiring adequate warning for security orbs. The last I heard, it was refusing to enforce that rule. LL has seen the benefits that came from enforcing that type of rule in terms of building community. And it should have a major, major incentive to want to cultivate community right now when the multiverse is such a big thing. Why in the world would you want to build in where newbies come in, wander around, and greeting by a hostile blue popular and then get bounced out? Talk about a good reason to not login again
If LL’s desire to have community is limited to words not backed by any action, then I don’t see why I should be paying them for the privilege of trying to combat their own apathy as I strive to contribute to the community they claim to want. So I quit paying the several hundred dollars that I was paying LL every month in an effort to contribute. People have indeed been discussing this since at least when I made my first account (July 2006) and LL needs to address and solve the problem.
Yep, my account is due up pretty soon, and I'm making a decision about it soon. I've commented before in other topics, how it seems I'm paying more, but for less service and access - and so it's increasingly becoming harder to warrant the Premium sub each year unless real value is added.
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53 minutes ago, LunaRavencroft said:
Well then, allow me to retort.
I've had randos intrude and start talking, on voice, acting as though they belonged. Acting as my family and I weren't in our private home. My home is not on any roadside, it's not by any clubs, etc.. It's on the other side of an Italian looking town (that's housed on the other side of a mountain range wall), and has no access to roads or anything. Therefor, there is ZERO reason for people to come, uninvited.
Would you have me allow some random stranger intrude into MY safe space, encroaching upon our privacy, that they may intrude where they are not welcome, just because it's not their parcel? What, then, if someone intruded entry at your RL home's door? What if some random stranger came barging into your house, on whatever street you live, in whatever city, on whatever continent in this world? Would you just accept that "Oh this person was just passing through, may as well let them be comfortable and not have them leave as soon as possible if not sooner" hmm?
My home has no roads by it, no water ways, not even an airport nearby. There is no welcome mat for randos. Randos, Codex, are not permitted on my parcel.
I've literally had one rando come into my home, while enjoying time with my family, and start talking. He took a seat, and started acting like he owned our home. That we were somehow his guests. Started hitting on us. I've had other randos intrude entry as well, and when asked to leave, they refused or ignored it. So, then, why should I allow them entry that they may disrupt our peace? Why, then, shall they be given quarter and allowed to intrude, despite being repeatedly told to leave?
I'm a friendly person, however, intruders uninvited are not welcome, nor will they ever be.
Once again, my home is not on any roadways, airways, or waterways, therefor there is no reason for the randos that wander the mainland to come to my home.
Also, if my security orb is on my parcel, it only affects those on my parcel that aren't on the allowed list. Therefor, no one is being "sniped"
To intrude and ignore being told, repeatedly, to leave, that you are unauthorized and are not welcome, and expect not to be ejected is not reasonable.
I am amazed at how you appeared to reply to the statement of mine that you quoted - then actually address nothing that I said, nor is what you said counter to anything I said.
No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person.
What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable.
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14 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:
But you are not entitled to those same "Rights" when you cross the threshold from open access to private access. You aren't getting it. You are basically telling LL to make rules that seem ridiculous in the long run. Telling people how they should setup their property. To accommodate someone trespassing. See how moronic that sounds. Look no one has to accommodate you, once you step on their land and you incidentally get booted for that. That is absolutely preposterous.
8 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:BECAUSE IT'S THEIR ORB, THEIR LAND. Ergo you don't have a right to tell them how they should set it. That is a very good reason as to why people set it.
Why is it that I and others can't get the same courtesy that you would like to afford them? This is why people try to meet in the middle of any issue, and come up with a reasonable solution. Not all parties will be 100% happy, but that's what happens when an agreement is finally met.
"Because it's their land" in RL wouldn't allow a landowner to blow someone away on their land, with no warning, or before a reasonable request to leave the property (then give them reasonable time to do so) - and every court of law will back this up. Being a landowner isn't a license to blow people away.
I did not speak in the concepts of 'right to' do anything. Landowners have a right to privacy, and everyone else has the right to free and reasonable (the word being reasonable) access to Mainland (which this is about) areas in SL where this is happening.
I wish you well, but I don't think I can rephrase or make my position clearer at this point.
And I'm not sure why you are still being counter to me, because you've already agreed with me:
1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:Honestly, I would set it to 30 seconds. To give people enough time to scat. However, that is me. I can't tell people that they are wrong for the duration they set it, or where it sends you when you get booted. It's their private domain, their orb, their choice.
See we agree.
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5 minutes ago, Tary Allen said:
So, to answer the OP, no it is not necessary, yes people can do that in mainland, their land their choice.
I would advise to roam and sail in Belli, it is what I do nowadays, I got tired of orbs that don't give me time to get out of a place and banlines, and as I said before, I wandered there by mistake or lag.
There is no reason why you should have to adjust your use of SL, especially if you pay for it, to what amounts as LESS service than what you had previously, and many people lose out on opportunities, eg.
That store owner you com across as you explore.
That affordable land rental/purchase that you may never have known about.
The fun of exploring and finding new things and new people to meet.
Instead, We could just create an easy solution that will work out for everyone;
1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds.
2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own.
1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:Well, again their orb, their private bit of land, their choice. I don't know hard that is to conceptualize?
No one has suggested that they take away this functionality from private people, but that their effect on other SL residents is within reason. I don't know how hard that is to conceptualize.
We only have a right to protect ourselves, in SL or RL, and not impose our will and force upon others in the process.
1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:I mean you are basically demanding LL to make it illegal to set your own orb to a time you feel is necessary and also demanding that they not send you home. Like somehow you are entitled to be sent somewhere else.
I made no demands, only suggestions to solve unpleasant experiences, and that benefit BOTH parties involved. However if I did make a demand, please quote when I or anyone else ever did so.
I haven't really heard any argument as to why someone would need a 0 second orb, or why they feel they're entitled to basically nuking an avatar back to their home, and i did provide reasons why doing so is not to the benefit of anyone.
1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:You really can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes... you get what you need!
1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:I mean this is turn into LL better make regulations, cause it's unfair.
If LL deems it as reasonable to allow 0 second orbs and to forcefully remove people from an entire region and send them back home - there is nothing any of us can do about it - but I'm just presenting a rational reason for them to consider changing their mind on this - it's up to them in the end, but I'm going to make a case.
It's not unfair to have some regulation (otherwise known as 'best practices') if something in SL is found to be abused. It's not regulation, it's a revamping of a function that hopefully balances the need for privacy and the respectful treatment of PAYING Second Lifers. I also made a case as to what gets lost in the process as a result - the least of it being bad blood between SL'ers - which is toxic to a platform.
1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:I mean this is turn into LL better make regulations, cause it's unfair. I mean would you expect the same courtesy IRL? Would you expect the owner of the home to give you 15 seconds to get off THEIR land? Do you pay THEIR land fees? So how is it fair to tell a person what they should do in the privacy of their own land, with their own orb? Do you see what I mean? That would be like asking the mayor of the town to give people 15 seconds to get off their land, they own. And at the same time, not call the police if you hestitate to do so, in what you deem is a reasonable amount of time.
Well yeah, in RL there is still a reasonable time to expect someone to get off your land when you request it, or it becomes trespassing. 15 seconds in many cases wouldn't be enough..
The key word here is 'reasonable'. 0 second eject orbs, insta-ban scripts (in relation to those), and giving control to that script owner to completely send that avatar 'home' is not, and I gave many reasons why.
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2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:
A message for those who set their security orbs to 0.
It would be greatly appreciated if you make allowances for those of us who periodically go through our landmarks to weed out the ones that are no longer valid. And since old habits die hard some of us still use the tried-and-true method of actually teleporting to the coordinates. At least, give us a few seconds to pull up the next LM and move on. I, for one, really have no desire to even be on your parcel since it is no longer the business I am looking for and I certainly have no desire to get to know someone who just booted me off their parcel simply for checking old landmarks.
It's this kind of overkill that makes me not want to associate with most people in SL.
Right now, there is a well-known creator with an outdated link to their inworld store, that teleports right into the kitchen of someone who lives there now.
No eject orb in that case, I am glad was able to have time to get my bearings, pull up the map, and see what was around, or if the store was off to the side somewhere.
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17 hours ago, LunaRavencroft said:
Put it this way.
If you invade my privacy, even by one second, you've DRASTICALLY overstayed your welcome. I do not enjoy unwelcome, uninvited guests. I have anxiety, and I feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable with randos intruding where they're not welcome.
Don't like it? Don't come to my home uninvited. It's MY home, MY safe place, MY private sanctum. If you intrude into MY home, understand that YOU are the reason why my security system forcibly ejected you. You were an unauthorized intruder into someone's private space, and therefor, you are to blame for their security orb's aggressive negotiations. Why? Because some individuals don't listen when told to leave, so, they must be made to leave.
How I see it, if you intrude into someone's private space....
1. You are an unwelcome/invited/etc... intruder and do not belong there.
2. You are the reason why you were banned/ejected.
3. You may be one of those miserable individuals whom doesn't listen to verbal/text warnings about getting out of someone's private area.TL;DR- Don't want to be ejected? Don't intrude in other people's private spaces like a creep.
No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person.
What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable.
17 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:I live on a parcel that isn't on mainland and I have my access list on and no one is allowed on. Except anyone on my access list. Now if I had an orb, I would make it 30 seconds tops. But I am totally fine with people choosing to make it a shorter time. I mean ultimately it is their choice and their piece of paradise. It is also their choice to choose to send you wherever they want to send you.
I think it is better to only use scripts or methods to ensure your own privacy, that leasts affects the enjoyment and reasonable free movement of your fellow SL'ers, who the majority of mean you no harm - and that using such scripts are used in moderation - especially those who forcefully send someone's avatar home.
It's funny how people can AR others for using scripts that limit their avatar's movement, or entrap them, or otherwise manipulate them, but then eject orb users feel it's perfectly fine to do it in that situation.
The most reasonable solution that makes everyone happy is:
1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds.
2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own.
15 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:We just don't know for sure what meaning it has for them and why they desire privacy, as there are so many possibilities, but I do know it's not right for you to insult and ridicule another because of the personal space and privacy they need.
No one is making a case to remove your preference for privacy. Not one person.
What has been presented is a request to set your orb to a reasonable eject delay, and for LL to disallow one user sending another user home as they can lose their place moving about and exploring on the Mainland during legitimate, non-malicious activity (which the overwhelming majority of SL'ers do). Sniping your fellow SL'ers and tp'ing them home without warning is not reasonable.
12 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:And all it really tells us is that the orb script hasn't been updated with the modern way of scripting that can perfectly detect avatars on a parcel of any shape and is instead using the older method which can only detect based on a circle diameter from where the orb is placed which obviously cannot do a perfect job even in the centre of square shaped land let alone the weirdly shaped land that people often get near roads.
The reason for their orb being out of date could be many:- The land owner is absent and has been for some time.
- They don't know that better scripting methods exist or why they are better.
- They don't know update for their orb is available.
- The maker of their orb has gone out of business long ago and they don't realise that newer orbs are better.
Often people just stick with what is working for them and so it isn't always malice that drives this.
Sure, now extend the same courtesy to people who might come across your parcel, who are there through no malicious intent of their own - and to treat them with patience and kindness.
9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:If there's some program to use SL (or any online experience) to help victims recover from whatever causes such extreme social sensitivity, that would be great but it would require a heck of a lot more than any security orb could deliver and must include progressive desensitization, not reward for ever increasing vigilance to the trigger.
As an introvert, occasionally having somewhere to retreat for a little virtual "me time" has appeal, but overall SL is a social platform. The Fortress of Solitude, long term, is not a healthy place. It's just not.
Yes, and perhaps these users could use a privately dedicated space (on demand type of service), so that they won't be exposed to the SL user masses.
9 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:most problems seem to happen on places where waterwways are at regions where no protections is set to the land. For many years these parcels are sold and traded between residents. But by their origin are no public passages.
Somebobdy to blame? .. nah, thats to big, but it's how mainland was designed.
OK, ill blame somebody at 3 sides .. the landowner could be less restrictive, the traveler could be more carefull and plan better, and as third, LL redo the design of seemingly public passingways and make it LL owned.Or we could just create an easy solution that will work out for everyone;
1) Limit eject orbs to a minimum delay time (of 15 seconds) and fair people can use 30 seconds.
2) LL reworks the eject system, and ejects the affected avatar to a nearby parcel, or a region "safe zone". (a reserved 4mx4m plot or park) so that region visitors don't have to lose their place through no fault of their own.
8 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:I have a 4096 corner parcel with a beach theme on a private island. No ban lines or isolation walls are allowed, to maintain the Beach theme.
One neighbor moved in and immediately set up a zero second orb for his entire parcel up to the top of the sky. There is no warning messsage and it has no delay. When I was landscaping near his parcel, I would sometime step onto his side of the adjacent boundary with one foot, and instantly be ejected to the bottom of the ocean. This got rather annoying, and the last thing I wanted to do was touch his BDSM beach playground. So my answer was to put up a security wall, so I could not drift onto his parcel by even 0.00001 meter. It works just fine, and I hope he enjoys his privacy:
(I was tempted to make the texture on his side a collection of dog turds, but alas I opted for 100% transparency on both sides.)
We are so isolated on this island that we never see a visitor. I have no orbs active at any level because they are not needed.
Sad huh. It's like finally applying a "When In Rome" principle when it seems that there is no interest from others around you to be reasonable, and then you have to resort to such things.
But then it just makes SL more antisocial and hostile than before. Of course this stuff didn't happen overnight, this kind of behaviour has been growing, and perhaps it's time for LL to step in again and regulate some stuff - especially eject orbs.
8 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:I don't think you get to make that call for how people approach their use of SL. It also supposes that they never go anywhere else to socialise. They may just not want to be forced to socialise in their sanctum.
Sure, now please extend the same courtesy for your fellow SL'ers and their approach of their use of SL - especially on the topic of balancing the ability to explore (and all the benefits it has for fun, and even profit for store owners and land renters/sellers) and others need for privacy. The solutions have been prevented - why not support it, or at least offer a counter-explanation as to why you need 0 second orbs?
6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:Yeah, Superman, but @Gabriele Graves' point stands: I don't get to dictate how sociable people must be in their sanctum.
For that solitude, there's OpenSim on a stick with the network cable unplugged. Or, much better, a meditation app.
For healing, there are mental health professionals, not orb scripters.
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Also, let's not pretend there's some special nobility in selecting Mainland of all places as the place to seek privacy in SL. The tools are grandfathered-in so Mainland will always have these lame functions to achieve a kind of half-assed "privacy" and folks will always be able to use them, but only a dedicated, one-owner Estate region has anything like meaningful privacy. Meanwhile, the Mainland "privacy" seekers will forever be dissatisfied with their results while inconveniencing others. As a designed environment, Mainland "privacy" is less a compromise than a failure, but it's a permanent failure now.
Yep. At some point people have to accept that there is a balance between privacy, and allowing the free flow of reasonable access
And if their needs for privacy outweighs an average need, perhaps a private region is in order, or like you said, go load an OpenSim on localhost where noone will ever bother them - ever.
This is why we can live in a society (at least in the West) where people can knock on your door and say "hello" - yet of course they'd never enter your house. If we made it so noone could step on your driveway for any reason - it would actually work against a free and civil society.
No one wants people's privacy taken away, no one has said that protections should be removed - but some are obsessed with this as if it's an all or nothing proposition.
4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:I'm going to have to agree with @Gabriele Gravesabout this. I am quite social when I choose to be. I'm hopping all over the grid most of the time. But, just as in RL, my home is for my down time. The one place in SL I should be guaranteed some solitude if I so choose. I don't have any social anxiety. As people say, I'm social selective.
No one is suggesting to take that away from you.
1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:On Mainland it's impossible to achieve anything remotely approximating "privacy", in contrast to an Estate region dedicated to that purpose, which might be appropriate to the purpose under consideration here. Mainland: definitely not.
Some people seem lost on this point.
To me, it makes no sense to park in a relatively 'public' area - which the majority of SL'ers have a reasonable expectation to move in and explore - and some are willing to go to great lengths - to the point of abusive practices - to try to gain themselves 100% privacy.
Those users should be pointed to private island rentals, or as I proposed before, that
LL Could Consider On-Demand Parcels/Lands/Worlds for those who seem to need it the most.
Seemingly though, some are simply not looking for solutions, but to just double down on their views - which heavily relies on the assumption that other SL'ers are a threat, hostile and chronic griefers, trolls and abusers.
This is not healthy for the platform.
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1 hour ago, Cyanide Pixie said:
I was thinking about everything you posted and reflecting on why the neighbor replicating my entire house bothered me. Trying to find, at the core, the reason it felt as uncomfortable as it did. And as silly as it may sound, I realized the word "plagiarism" continued to pop into my head. A part of my reaction to the discovery is definitely that I felt like my hard work and creativity was blatantly ripped off in front of my face without any regard or acknowledgement. It felt violating. Not because they saw it, but because they felt it was okay to take it. You will probably find that laughable, but I'm being honest even at risk of ridicule here so please bear with me...
I'm curious, would your opinion about this situation be different if it was in regards to some other artform outside of design? What if we were talking about written works? Let's say someone writes a story... heck, scratch that... Let's say it's just a blog post. And someone else copies and pastes the blog post and reposts it to their own blog as their own words. Would that be reason to express discontent? Or even if we go back to a more visual form, what about tracing someone's art and passing it off as their own without credit? In both scenarios, let's say there is no monetary profit (or loss of the original's profit). But the work was still replicated without hesitation.
I suppose you could argue that writing or drawing is different than interior/exterior design. Maybe you feel that it takes more skill or more time (although the existence of entire schools dedicated to the study of design might indicate otherwise). But at what point does replicating someone's creation (regardless of medium) become something that can be frowned upon or dissuaded against? Where is the line? Legitimate question. I'm not claiming to be Picasso or Mozart here and have no such delusions. But it was something that I spent many hours creating and poured a lot of myself into, regardless of whether or not it was good. It felt very personal to me and was very rewarding in the end to see it come alive every step of the process. And I think (I might be wrong) that might be a piece of why some could feel the neighbor crossed a line.
It's obviously just a piece, of course. There is another layer to it I haven't quite been unable to unpeel in regards to the proximity of the recreation. No, it has nothing to do with camming. I want people to see and appreciate what I create in Second Life, from my houses to my avatar. But I'm certain I wouldn't feel the same if it was replicated somewhere else on the grid. Perhaps that's just simply because I wouldn't know? Or maybe because when done like this, others will see both our houses and know for a fact one is a copy but not know who created the original? I'm not sure., But having it right next door hits differently, regardless of the reason why.
Just bouncing around thoughts here, having my own internal debate because I find it interesting... Perhaps you're correct, and I am crazy and paranoid and creepy and should seek a therapist.No,I just wish you took the incident as defined in my original post. Take it as a compliment, as you have no personal connection with this person, and they're not doing it to mock you. It's just a person who liked what you did and imitated it. You and I don't know anything about the person's state of mind or intention and we have to leave it at that. If you felt that you had to move away because of it, it would be understandable - I doubt it would ever happen again, and this is probably just a unique experience that won't repeat itself
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5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:
We've been saying that for a decade, and even louder and with greater urgency since Apple announced they were depreciating OpenGL, but here we are.
We need a complete and fully multithreaded overhaul to the asset fetch render pipeline, and we needed it years ago. This is a huge project and would take a significant amount of time to implement and test, it is well beyond the scope of any unfunded 3rd party viewer project (even the mighty FS).. and now you know why we don't have it.
3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:.. because the fix would be an involved project touching every part of the viewer internals, probably require some server tuning, and it would be a major ongoing development commitment for multiple high skill developers from LL for at least a year.
So in the meantime, encourage creators to optimize their assets they submit to the platform.
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3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:
I ... knew how annoying it was to get the whole hit that orb and bam you go flying or you go home and you can't find your boat or plane.
Good, then we agree.
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Impulsive behavior
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