Maeve Balfour

Currently I'm working on a large mesh structure with a 64m x 64m footprint (intended for usage as a sky-based build). I'm planning on honing my LOD optimisation skills with it, as well as experimenting with efficient texture usage via repeating UVs etc (and hopefully I'll learn a few new things in the process). My goal is to create a large structure which is visually attractive AND be as efficient as possible in regards to render and Land Impact costs. Anyways, my plan is to eventually make an extensive post here in the forums of my findings and building / texturing / UV methods, which will hopefully be of use to fellow mesh builders - and mayhaps they will find even more ways to further improve Land Impact costs in general. I will also be posting a LM of the eventual final build, so other residents can check it out for themselves inworld. This project probably won't be completed for at least a few more weeks yet (RL keeps me away LOL)... but I just thought I'd mention it since this subject has come up. (I first mentioned my build in THIS THREAD a couple of weeks ago). :matte-motes-smile:

Clutching at straws here.... Could it be inverted normals on the missing faces? (Try camming inside your mesh if possible, and see if you can see the missing faces from there). Or are the missing faces occurring differently each time, at random? Also, are you using the Phoenix Viewer for uploading with? I was under the impression (I could be wrong here though) that the Phoenix viewer was designed only to allow users to SEE mesh with it. Since it's based on such an old codebase, I had assumed it wasn't ideal (or even possible actually) to upload mesh with - But as I said, I could be entirely wrong here. If nothing else, I'd recommend using the official V3 viewer for all your mesh uploads at the moment, to help isolate whatever the problem is - on the assumption that it's your mesh which has issues. :matte-motes-smile:

Mmm... if it's only around 35 to 40 LI, it's not as bad as I had assumed. Without wireframe previews it's hard to ascertain... although I can imagine if someone attempted really dense fur in this manner, it could cause potential problems. (Although I am guilty of having flexi-prim hair, LOL, so I can't really talk too much). :matte-motes-oh-rly: Still, I can see how this kind of mesh can be overdone easily if not used carefully... I guess I am just wary, having seen some truly show-stopping meshes inworld (as in, potential frame-rate killers).

Looks nice, for sure... but.... I am almost too afraid to ask this.... what kind of triangle count does this kind of thing generate? I'm assuming all the individual hairs you show here are 3D shapes, with each hair strand consisting of many triangles each? If that's the case... I would also assume that the associated render cost would be massive, due to the seriously high geometry detail, even with LODs applied to compensate. (Please correct me if I am assuming wrongly here in regards to the geometry). Out of curiousity, what kind of LI (land impact) does the moustache have? I know that it's an AV attachment, but... if the LI is as heavy as I fear it is... your moustache and hair concepts could be a serious drain on render times / frame rates for anyone within viewing range. (Just something worth keeping in mind overall when trying out this kind of thing).

Yah, what you are describing there is what I referred to in my earlier post. Preferably, creating a simplified physics version of the structure in a secondary mesh (to save on Land Impact costs), which when uploaded WITH your original mesh in the SL uploader (via the physics selection option) gives your mesh build functional physics (walls that are "solid" to AVs, doorways to walk through etc). To avoid possible confusion, I should state that this second mesh, when acting as a physics hull, will be totally invisible - it's sole purpose is to give your intended mesh solid physics effects (sometimes I think people get a little confused by the physics hull and how it combines with the main mesh etc, judging by questions I get asked sometimes). And yah, that setting in the SL build menu (prim/convex hull) is vital too, to avoid the "solid cube" effect. But definitely no need to set meshes to phantom when this is working correctly (physics hulls). :matte-motes-smile: It's good that you have this aspect working though - just remember, that your physics mesh hull counts towards your overall Land Impact cost, so its always good practice to keep that relatively simple where possible (large flat surfaces are far better than lots of tiny surfaces that will put strain on the realtime physics calculations (and hence higher Land Impact cost)). Your actual main VISIBLE mesh can be still be detailed etc - just use the physics hull mesh to simulate solid surfaces for AVs to interact with (walls, floors, doorways etc). :matte-motes-smile:

Are you referring to creating a simplified mesh hull to replicate physics behaviour, which is uploaded WITH the main mesh itself into SL? (The mesh physics hull is automatically combined with the mesh model, so the single object acts as intended inworld). Of course, there are methods involved in optimising for LI cost etc. If that is what you are referring to, then yah, for most people frequenting this forum it is common knowledge (or at least, I am assuming as such). :matte-motes-smile:

I'll just jump in once more to answer (before I get some sleep!).... :matte-motes-smile: I am pretty much doing as you suggest Kwak: For LOD2/3/4, I am ONLY using an 8-triangle mesh (one triangle for each material used), which makes a huge dent in LI cost. Of course, by doing this kind of thing one has to plan around the LOD switch, hence this trick being best used on interior room modules where the change won't be seen (preferably obscured by closed doors etc). For rooms facing windows, when you cam out far enough, the LOD switch can be seen (although for rooms of the size in my example here, the distance is quite reasonable)... in these kinds of cases, I would probably prefer modeling a very basic box with inward facing normals (to emulate the walls). My guess is that by the time the LOD switch happens, when viewed through the windows, the texturing won't really be an issue due to distance (and probably won't be the focal point when it happens). For the floors and ceilings in this particular build, I am planning on creating surfaces utilising my UV/materials tiling technique for randomisation effects (described HERE)... It will be more costly than using a simplistic 2-triangle plane per surface, but that's purely an artistic choice on my part (and should still be reasonable in LI overall, for the resultant texture variations achieved etc). But yah, a modular approach like this, for hidden interior rooms especially, can reap big rewards on LI savings. :matte-motes-smile:

Ah, NOW I read you Kwak - Thanks for that (another overlooked tweak to add to my memory!) I can stretch the wall pieces to suit, depending on the room sizes etc. I guess it will depend on HOW I choose to texture the surfaces. If I just choose to use generic repeating textures (which have seamless edges), that idea is perfect. Though, I am also considering doing "faked" ambient occlusion along the wall edges (floor / ceiling / column edges / around door frames etc), so the individual panel meshes will probably be easier to texture that way (although with a bit of planning, texture repeats could be a viable option). Nice idea - thanks for that (and glad you like the build too!) :matte-motes-smile:

Kwakkelde: Yah, the columns are an aesthetic choice on my part. Since the overall LI for each room module is pretty low, I am happy to have a little bit of additional geometry for visual detail etc. The columns are a mixture of practical and artistic choice: By having the wall segments in blocks as they are, I can allocate multiple material zones, which allows a bit of texture and/or diffuse colour variation (currently I only have a couple of placeholder textures applied). Plus the overall build I am working on re-uses these mesh pieces over and over again throughout in a modular fashion (the wall panels, the columns, doorways etc - all these pieces have been UV-mapped prior (along with other pieces in the build) and then I have been using these pieces to assemble each room module etc (which are then saved out as single meshes for SL)... via the use of materials, I can split them up into relevant UV sets and so on. A balancing act, between texture efficiency in the final build and overall LI, and artistic choice. Oh, and altering the build....? Hmm... thanks for the idea! :smileyvery-happy: :matte-motes-smile: ........................ Gaia: (You posted while I was replying to Kwakkelde)... I'll give it to you on your initial guess. IT WAS 2. (Unlinked, the meshes are 3, but with rounding of LI decimals, the LINKSET is 2). The physics cost is surprisingly low, although I guess the large size of the flat surfaces may be a deciding factor in this (the two smaller room modules were only about 0.5LI in the uploader (WITH physics hulls), so when linked together with the larger room module, the decimal rounding saves 1 LI - a nice bonus. Your turn now Gaia :matte-motes-smile:

Medhue: Sorry, you're waaaay out of the ballpark! :matte-motes-shocked: :matte-motes-wink: Dain: Hmmm, you are incredibly close with your estimate! Not quite on the mark, but almost! :matte-motes-smile: Oh, and I forgot to mention that each of the room meshes has functioning physics for the walls and doorways (though the LI for the physics hulls doesn't push the overall LI for each module any higher, for what it's worth).

Thanks Madeliefste! And nice mesh btw! :matte-motes-smile: Okies... Since I have been talking a bit lately about my extremely savage LODs workflow, I guess I should post an example here. Anyone who has been reading my posts or has visited my build (which is unlinked currently) will probably already have a good idea of the LI range. So... here it is... three interior room modules, with my ultra savage LODs applied. They are designed as interior only rooms, so won't be visible from outside when their LODs change. Only the interior wall surfaces and doorways are modeled (NO floors or ceilings - JUST the wall segments). Each room is a separate mesh - the three are linked together, so there is the the benefit of combined fractional LI's to reduce the cost slightly. No exterior faces... ONLY the inner sides of each wall (the INSIDES of the rooms) are modeled (due to the modular nature of this build). Each room mesh has the full 8 materials assigned, as well as UVs. Total volume of the three meshes LINKED inworld is 23m x 15.5m x 7.5m high. Phew, I think that's about all I need to state (typing this fast, as RL duties call LOL). So... guess the LI of the COMBINED Linkset. :matte-motes-smile: EDITED TO ADD: In my haste, I forgot to mention that each mesh room has its own functioning physics hull (for the walls and doorways).

Nice idea, and a fun diversion :matte-motes-smile: Hmm... I'll hazard a guesstimate at.... 3. The little round spheres on the top and the clasp closure might hog a few more triangles than the overall main mesh volume. However, this cost is entirely dependent on the LODs. So yah, I'll try 3

I probably didn't make it clear in my wording I guess - I'm talking about using the UV-mapping to create multiple posters/decals per image COMBINED WITH the creative use of the mesh geometry... as in, separating up the equivalent UV spaces on the related mesh faces, and then spreading THOSE PIECES of mesh geometry around ... which will let you place the decals / posters at complete random in 3D space. My concept is to use these posters/decals as OVERLAYS on other mesh surfaces (slightly offset to be visible etc). (I'm probably not writing clearly at this time of night LOL). :matte-motes-confused: EDIT: And yah, as you mentioned in your earlier post.. obviously texture load has to be taken into consideration. Moderation in texture usage is always important... my idea is to allow for a nice texture display via responsible texture usage, while at the same time saving in the equivalent prim cost of spreading those said posters around. By no means am I wanting to encourage rampant texture overkill, rather, just a method to achieve a nice visual result AND save on prims at the same time. Phew - time for me to sleep! LOL, and EDIT on YOUR EDIT BELOW: No offence taken whatsoever Kwakkelde! Your point is completely valid AND valuable! (using textures with care and moderation). :smileyvery-happy: :matte-motes-smile: :matte-motes-smile:

True that, Kwakkelde... however with mesh, you can place those posters however you like within a mesh's volume space... so you can spread said posters across multiple walls, even across multiple separate rooms, within the maximum allowable 64m3. THAT is what I find exciting - the freedom that brings, especially in using mesh to add extra texture detailing via decals on otherwise bland surfaces - can do a lot to increase visual diversity at a relatively small LI cost. (The multi-poster mesh would be set as phantom, to allow AVs to wander within its volume space unimpeded). :matte-motes-smile:

I love your enthusiasm Jo! Your reply just made my day :matte-motes-smitten: As I said in my previous post, my example was just a very basic, quick example. I would guess with cutting UV shapes into more poster-like dimensions, you could probably get SIX poster shapes per 512x512 texture (two rows x 3 rectangle uprights per row); with my rough rule of thumb of 100 pixels per metre in SL for nice image quality, if you kept your poster height to around 2m each, the image detail would be reasonable (especially for general "atmospheric" detail posters) - I guess this is subject to personal opinion, and mayhaps for important posters which have a higher need for detail, you could increase the pixel count per metre (using larger resolution images etc, though the tradeoff would be increase load time - all a balancing act and personal preferences). Upping the stakes a little, if you instead opted for 1024x1024 pixel textures for your posters, but maintained the same 256pixel heights per poster, and UV-mapped your mesh to suit, you could in theory quadruple your poster count per mesh. (A rough guess, say, 24 poster images per texture, multiplied by eight textures/material zones... would equate to 192 posters in a single mesh object)... However, keep in mind that the triangle count would increase in your mesh as well, so the resultant LI (prim cost) would increase as well... but not by very much, especially depending on how large the volume of your mesh ends up being inworld. Still... even the increased triangle count would still be a relatively simple mesh object in complexity, so it would still be TINY in prim cost compared to rezzing 192 PRIMS to do the same effect. Making a haphazard GUESS... I would think it would cost well below 5 prims (probably MUCH lower) - I will have to try this out when I get a chance, and post the results. So yah... my apologies in advance if I set your creative brain into too much overdrive, Jo! :matte-motes-wink:

In regards to textures, mesh when used creatively WITH clever UV-mapping can be hugely beneficial too - both in terms of texture economisation AND in reducing the equivalent prim usage (depending on the situation). I won't bamboozle you with the ins and outs of UV-mapping yet (the way you cut up a mesh to display textures)... that can come later on when you are sufficiently along the learning path. But consider an example like this: Say, you had 32 posters you wanted to display, each a square of about 2mx2m (not a normal poster shape, but just a simple example to keep this description brief)... With clever UV-mapping, you could create a 512x512 pixel image, divide it into quarters (each quarter 256x256 pixels). So each texture would be FOUR posters. Multiply this by mesh's capability to have up to EIGHT material zones (each material can be a totally separate texture). So, 8 materials x the 4 poster images per texture would give you 32 poster textures..... Now the exciting bit: You can create FOUR mesh squares, and each can be UV mapped to match the four different poster sections on the textures. Those four squares are then duplicated EIGHT TIMES, and each duplicate set is given a different material setting (like faces on a prim). So now EACH of those squares can appear to hold a totally separate poster image, due to the way the UV-mapping is set up, combined with the materials to multiply the effect. LOL, probably getting a bit technical there, but.... What it means, is that you now have 32 posters, which you can spread around any way you wish within a 64x64mx64m area (the maximum mesh size allowable). Ideally, you would have a mesh room in your modeler to use for reference when placing them etc. Once the positions are set, you simply save out the poster squares as a single mesh object (WITHOUT the reference room mesh you may have used - JUST the poster meshes themselves). From my own experiments so far... a 32 poster mesh like this tends to only cost about 1LI (or ONE PRIM). So just an example like that is an indication of the HUGE benefits mesh can have, especially if used creatively. You could apply this effect for windows, decals/stains on walls (with alpha channels) etc etc. (I'll post a proper tutorial of this in the forums here when I get a chance to do it properly). So yah.... LOTS AND LOTS of huge benefits! :matte-motes-smile:

Welcome to the wonderful world of mesh, Jo! It's a vast subject, and can appear daunting at first, but it's DEFINITELY worth persevering with the learning curve and coming to grips with. The sheer freedom it will bring you in creativity, especially in the construction of buildings like you mention, make the initial headaches worthwhile. I love your Berlin sim - and I can assure you, if you eventually convert it to mesh, you have the potential to save VAST amounts of prims overall. Myself, I am currently exploring methods in creating low LI buildings (Land Impact (or in basic terms, the equivalent prim count)), and will be posting here in the forum my results for others like yourself to gain the knowledge from. I have rezzed an example build-in-progress (nowhere near finished yet), which if you like you can visit to get an idea of the potential land cost/prim count savings mesh can make - when it's designed economically. (This build I will be updating as I go along with proper textures etc, so feel free to drop back occasionally to see how it progresses). Coordinates: Tintoria/43/126/3969 But I won't flood you with information overload - you are just starting out on your wonderful mesh journey. My suggestions for what to do and learn in general are these: 1: Find a program you are comfortable with modeling in. Most modeling programs by their nature should be able to create polygon meshes, and output to standard formats (OBJ and DAE files etc). 2: Learn how to create mesh models. It's a big subject, but a FUN one too if you take your time and learn how to handle your program's tools. 3: The "scary" part - UV mapping. This is where you lay out your mesh like a dressmaker's pattern, and designate how textures are wrapped onto it. It's a big subject, but essential to learn, if you want to make effective mesh models. Not as scary as it appears though - you just need to approach it logically etc. 4: Setting material zones. These work like faces on a standard prim - which lets you define sections of a mesh to react like prim faces - each face can have totally separate textures etc (in the same way as the texturing section in the SL build menu works for prim faces). Often overlooked, but materials inside of SL can be your best friend! 5: Learning how to make best use of the SL mesh importer. This is the menu where you bring your meshes into SL. It's not a huge task, but definitely worth taking time with to understand its functions. 6: Learning how to optimise your meshes for best usage in SL. This can be a tricky subject, but when you nail it, you will make SERIOUS savings over equivalent prim builds. I know your Berlin sim will benefit hugely from mesh when you learn the ins and outs of optimisation. So yah, those steps there, while sounding a bit heavy, are not as bad as they might appear. Just the overall essential skills you will need to make best usage for mesh creation for SL (and many of these skills are useful OUTSIDE of SL too - mesh workflows tend to be universal in the large part). Feel free to ask as many questions as you need to - there are plenty of people in this forum who will be only too happy to help out (myself included). Have fun! :matte-motes-smile:

Kwakkelde and Drongle: Thank you for the pointers - all very valuable and useful! So many things can combine to keep LI down, while maintaining visual appeal - which is why I love mesh so much! I haven't really experimented much with LODs yet for smaller objects (such as mesh doors) - so both your tips are extremely helpful to my design process. And I love your windows concept, Drongle - will definitely explore that more. I will probably pull apart the window wall in my build and redesign it in a few combined meshes, just to make use of that concept (and free up valuable material space for greater texture options as well). Will tweak further on the weekend... back to work for me (RL work! Monday is already well under way in my part of the world LOL) sigh.... :matte-motes-smile:

Mmmm... things like doors etc I am thinking about in regards to LODs, possibly faking them larger with a tiny triangle placed away from them to force their bounding box larger (just an idea for now - the doors themselves will eventually slide INTO the wall cavities, so the extra triangle won't be seen in normal usage. My apologies about the Sim going down - I can pretty much assure you it ISN'T due to my meshes LOL... just unlucky timing on your part. As far as I know, I have never had my region crash while I have been there (fingers crossed). Also, I will be redoing the physics for the stairs later - currently the sides are basic, so you end up sitting on air if you dont sit on a pillar, but since their LI is lower than the overall mesh LI (I think it was about 1.5 for the stairwell module), I will add some extra physics detail for more accurate sitting. Details, details I know.... but I am fussy like that! Thanks for looking Drongle! I hope the sim behaves itself for you next time! :matte-motes-wink:

To help give ideas to fellow mesh builders in regards to the optimisation methods I am exploring, I've now rezzed a duplicate of my current work-in-progress above my prior-mentioned build. It's intended to eventually be some kind of really grungy, modular store based as a sky build (if I ever get around to becoming a merchant LOL). I have always loved the aesthetics of grungy old buildings... it makes for a lot of fun potential for texturing! Coordinates: Tintoria/43/126/3969 Please keep in mind that I still have a LOT of work to do with this build, and that there are large sections on the lower floor still not filled (hence the empty see-through spaces). Also, ignore the texturing - I've only used a couple of placeholder textures currently - and that you cannot really see how I have optimised the UVs and materials (that will become evident once I start creating specific textures). LOL and also also: Ignore the flickering where I have doubled up on mesh pieces in the modules - I will fix those as I revise things later. Eventually I'll be adding in functioning doors, lots of mesh texture decals etc. The goal is to have an efficient build with as much visual diversity as possible, without massive texture overload. :matte-motes-smile: Anyways, this build will give an idea of the modular process I am working towards. Specifically, repeated usage of modular, pre-UVmapped pieces, designed to slot easily into an overall modular build. When I say pieces, I mean exactly that... all the tiny little pieces that make this build are actually UV-mapped prior to construction, and duplicated over and over - with each room module / build section being uploaded as a single mesh. In essence it means efficient texture usage via repeats, time saved on UV-mapping in general, and the ability to mix textures on a per-room module basis via material settings. NOTE: the floors / ceilings are only standard prims currently - they are just placeholders for now, until I create the relevant sections in mesh (utilising my mixed UV-materials tiling concept). I have deliberately left this build UN-LINKED... so residents can see the LI of each module and get an idea of the potential savings of mesh over equivalent prim builds, especially with my savage LOD technique. I think there is at least ONE glitchy LOD switch I will need to change later... plus some of the rooms I will change the LOD to interior boxes (where the windows show the change occuring). But it will give some ideas of how LODs can be a massive prim saver. I think currently, the MESH totals of this build come to 51 LI - the majority of the LI cost coming from the exterior window wall due to its size and complexity (but worth it for the aesthetics in my mind - I might be able to reduce this by splitting this section into two meshes). As I progress, I will update this duplicate build, so anyone interested can check back in and take a look around. Once I get it completed, I'll make a detailed post here in the forums explaining my methodology. Oh, and Charlar: Please, feel free to take pics of my builds mentioned here (over my plot in Tintoria) and post them if you wish. I am not a commercial builder (or rather, have no ambitions of selling constructions like these), so I don't have any "trade secrets" to hide. If my work helps to further SL mesh, I am happy for you to use my examples here. I am honoured! :matte-motes-smile:

In regards to the simple flat triangles for the LOD2-3-4 meshes, yah, I mean simply that (IF they won't be visible when their LODs change) - I have a simple set of flat triangle meshes in my "library" on my hard drive, from one triangle up to eight, with each surface having a separate material applied... so, when I create an interior mesh where the other LOD's don't matter in appearance, I just choose the relevant one in regards to material requirements to upload (instead of creating them each time). The uploader simply scales them to fit within the bounding box of the LOD1 mesh. Obviously, you need to take care if your interior room is an irregular shape (say, an L-shape) and the subsequent LOD mesh pokes through its edges to match the bounding box (I hope that makes sense LOL). In a case like that, I just reshape and scale the chosen LOD2-3-4 mesh to suit. With open spaces, I guess it depends on how it is utilised. If the interior space itself is one large mesh, any AV standing within it will never see its LOD change, since they are in close proximity of it while standing within it - the LOD1 mesh will only be visible. Plus, with the large size, the cam distance before it changes will be longer, so less likelihood of it occuring while being visible. I guess it's a balancing act, learning how large things need to be before their LODs switch. As an example, I previously experimented on a large warehouse-like interior as a test, intended for use within an enclosed skybox (so its exterior LODs weren't of concern to me). The interior space is roughly 90m x 60m x about 35m high (at its highest point), built with about 30 or so mesh components (walls, roof spaces, floor sections, stairs etc). Due to each of the components having a relatively large bounding box (although some of them aren't overly huge), as far as I know, while inside the space (and even camming in from outside from reasonable distances), you can't see any of the LODs change. So yah, wide open interior spaces are definitely viable for a reasonable LI - it's just a matter of getting an instinct for when the LODs of the various components will switch, and working around that. EDIT: Here's rough coordinates to the above-mentioned build (I'm not able to get inworld at the moment for an exact location, but this should give you a close reference (wear a flight feather in case I'm wrong! LOL). Tintoria/34/126/3902 - I hope this doesn't drop you in the middle of a pillar or something! (Anyone interested is welcome to take a look around). Please note this is an abandoned build now... so ignore the funky material colours and unfinished texturing. It was an experiment from about three months ago from which I learned some valuable lessons, and have since moved on to newer concepts (modular builds and more efficient UV/material usage, which I will post about for others to benefit from once I get my workflow settled). Anyways, you will be able to get an idea of how an interior space can work - remember, that EVERY mesh object in this build has the flat triangle LOD technique used, so as such, keeps the component mesh LI pretty low overall (although there is always room for improvement). I deliberately didn't have exterior faces on most of the walls etc since I intended to enclose all of this within a skybox exterior - so the transparency wouldn't be easily visible. I think the total LI of the build as it is now is about 94 if I remember correctly. Also, ignore the texture flickering where I experimented with alpha textures on separate mesh overlays - that's a concept I have also abandoned (in favour of modular / repeating texture UVs and materials). Also, the floor is worth studying - it's an experiment in mixing UV spaces and materials, and taking advantage of SL's texture/face editing inworld. I talked about the workflow in this thread. (NOTE: the main floor area is slightly covered by an invisible prim for faked physics - so you will get a false LI count (getting the prim instead of the floor). LOL, I've since then figured out how to get accurate physic to work for a floor plane like that! Have fun, and don't trip over any of my debris left lying around LOL! :matte-motes-smile:

I've been experimenting with large builds for my own usage, and yah, if you split your buildings into segments, it can drastically reduce LI. Something to definitely plan for, when possible, is for interior rooms / surfaces that will be hidden by natural occlusion from outside / longer distances. These can be broken into separate segments, and although their smaller bounding box sizes will mean their LODs switch at earlier ranges than larger sections, IF occluded by the outside structure, you can be REALLY savage on their subsequent LOD2-3-4 meshes - simple flat triangles (one for each material) are often all that are needed - due to the fact that these LOD switches probably won't be visible when they happen (and in most cases, the LOD switches won't occur for AVs moving about INSIDE the structure itself (unless it has massively open interior spaces compared to the bounding box sizes of the interior components visible etc). From my experience thus far, this has a HUGE reduction on LI, especially if the geometry of the rooms was relatively clean and straight edged to begin with. Rooms which are about 15m x 15m x 7.5m tall, as an example, have tended to come in around 1.5LI to 4LI each in this manner (with basic angular trims on the walls for floors and ceilings, doorways etc). Obviously the more detailed the individual room meshes are, the higher the LI is, but you get the picture... if you can design for interior modules where the LOD switches won't be visible, then you can probably get away with very basic lower LOD meshes.... or if visible through windows, mayhaps model a very basic box shape (with normals facing inward) for wall / floor / ceiling surfaces that will be visible - still very basic, since at the distances they will kick in, the camera will be a fair distance away most likely. The physics cost for these room segments tend to be very small too - just large flat surfaces to describe the basic contact areas expected, with gaps for doorways. When done as a modular design, the physics blocks will combine neatly with other physics blocks of other adjoining mesh segments, plus the overall physics hull LI tends to be quite small (around 0.5PE or so), generally not affecting the eventual highest LI of the segments. Another benefit by splitting up builds into components like this, is making better usage of material faces. Each mesh can have up to eight materials assigned, so each room component can have its own eight materials and subsequent textures - very handy for additional versatility. By breaking up your mesh interiors into components like this, especially if you link them together inworld afterwards to combine LI (decimal rounding), it will save quite a lot of LI. Your exterior is where the LI will tend to be more expensive - mostly because it will be larger overall (if a single mesh) and that you will want it to look good over all distances, which will require more detailed LODs and a higher server weight. But balancing this with the tiny LI interiors, you should be able to get a very acceptable LI overall - especially compared to emulating the same with regular prims. I hope this helps - have fun! :matte-motes-smile:

Thanks for the stats Charlar - I've often wondered just how many (or few) people have been switching to mesh capable viewers. Nice to know that the non-meshies are now a minority (and a shrinking one by the sounds of it). Good times all round! (And keep up the good work behind the scenes - I for one appreciate the hard work you Linden peeps do) :matte-motes-smile:

Fizz: In regards to your mesh creations, I would just use a simple rule of thumb - use only as many triangles/polys as you need to, to get the shape you require. I wouldn't even try to compare triangle usage to sculpties - Just keep your models tight and trim in regards to poly usage, and you are already there. In other words, do as you are already doing - working for efficient usage of triangles as you model. I know you are determined to do that, so you are already well on the way. If you constantly keep an eye out for ways to trim excess polys as you work, then you will quickly develop an eye for lightweight, efficient models. Being someone who likes modeling footwear meshes myself... to me, your quad count sounds quite reasonable (683 in your post). I guess the poly count would double once converted to triangles... but it would still be quite reasonable. If you can see areas where quads could be trimmed next time, then yah, reduce if you need to... but since you are using LODs in addition to your main mesh, the impact overall should be quite acceptable (especially in comparison to some hideous examples I have seen inworld LOL). You're doing the right thing Fizz - be proud of your efforts! :matte-motes-smile: PS: To give an idea of the monstrosities I have seen inworld... although unable to get actual triangle counts, when I viewed said footware meshes in wireframe mode.... I kid you not when I say this.... the triangles in the mesh were SO DENSE / TINY / TIGHTLY PACKED that they had an appearance almost like a solid surface in their own right, when viewed from certain angles. I'm talking many tens of thousands, quite possibly hundreds of thousands of triangles... in a single damned shoe or boot. When I rezzed a demo on the ground... initially I thought it was server lag.. but no... it was SO HEAVY it took what felt like a minute to rez. Not to mention no effort at all to remove hidden faces.... so you can just imagine the wastage and huge render/server impact. Arrrrrgh! (Edited to fix paragraph formatting (forum borked on me earlier LOL).

Chosen Few wrote: Needless to say, there are those in SL who love loopholes wherever they can be found, and those types probably think this particular one is great, silly as that is. Whether it's because they're too lazy to create their own LOD's properly, or because they're just so selfish that they don't care what becomes of anyone else's frame rate as long as their precious avatar looks as high-poly as possible from every conceivable distance, or simply because they just don't know any better, it's a big problem. To those people, I simply can't stress enough that LOD's exist for good reason. As I've said countless times on this forum, the system doesn't run on magic. Computers have limits to what they can do at speed. The more polygons in a scene, the slower the scene renders, period. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Sadly, I have seen FAR too many examples of this with mesh already inworld and on the Marketplace. As you say, it appears people are too lazy to bother with LODs, or are simply just too selfish about their AV appearance to care. Ignorance to rendering cost in general is another factor - creators and users just don't seem to want to know, or learn. So Fizz, you have my genuine applause in your efforts in keeping your render impact down. You can be rightly proud of that. I can't name and shame examples in here due to TOS (plus I don't like being rude to individuals)... but... I have seen some hideous examples of footwear with MONSTROUS triangle counts and no efforts to create any kind of LOD that I can discern. Seriously, I know of examples where one SINGLE shoe (from a pair) I have seen on the MP would exceed the prim allowance on an empty 512m2 plot if rezzed on the ground - and would be hard pressed to fit in an empty 1024m2 plot (234 prim allowance). With heavily sculpted footwear, this has become the accepted norm (unfortunately), BUT with mesh, its utterly inexcusable. Just seriously sloppy meshwork, which would be excessive in general 3D rendering, let alone a realtime 3D environment. Sorry for the mini rant, things like this just makes my blood boil, LOL. So yah, Fizz, be proud - You are doing the right thing, definitely! :matte-motes-smile: