Andred Darwin

That is odd... I wonder if its a mix of that setting in the viewer preferences Privacy tab ( Show my profile in Search results ) along with settings under my.secondlife.com... does your settings reflect what you can see on your profile in search? @Patch Linden @Grumpity Linden @Reed Linden Information about those settings seem scattered everywhere and quite a few seem old and don't apply to the new updates anymore, could we get up to date info a one place (page) about all privacy options (viewer preferences, my.secondlife.com, etc...), and, would in-world profiles be in sync with those settings?

Maybe that player just don't want to share anything (or even give a reason for someone to contact them.... ), they may just want to do their thing... I think having that option in SL, is probably the right thing to do... (is already implement in web profiles anyway... would not hurt... ), this whole thread would probably not even exist, along with disappointment about this issue...

Thank you, I was really under the impression they were connected (I never really checked, cause most of my profile was set to public... but I do consider this very important...) ... anyway, for sure it's in LL's and users best interest if those privacy settings were observed by all sources (endpoints) of profile information... this whole mess would be avoided... also surprising the system was coded that way... (one endpoint uses privacy settings and another doesn't... sending data to external clients... ), even more surprising, no response so far....

I think the biggest issue was that they were too slow to load. @Tommy Linden @Reed Linden ... would you be able to get more info and clarify Privacy permissions on the web and in-world profiles after the new update? Are they linked, do they supposed to work, do they actually mean anything? Also about websites scrapping profiles: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights Specially the line: ( Question is in relation to privacy settings and how they can still get that data ) Provided via systems not controlled by Linden Lab; such systems are beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. For example, "Someone's posting Bob Avatar's address and photograph on their web page."

Makes sense, let's move the ball then... let's open a JIRA ticket to fix privacy at profiles... (mine is completely open, would be great to provide examples.... )

Either way, if a profile area privacy is set to Friends only and still showing to anyone, all it would take is to open a JIRA, and everyone make a comment, follow, etc... I'm sure LL would respond in some way...

Well... in this case, if yours was set to Friends only... shame on LL, the system is not working as designed. (Friends only has to mean Friends only! Do you know if there is a Jira for it already? )

After reading all posts, it's hard for me to see where LL is not following it's policies, the only way to hide info from your profile from SL or public is by setting the options at my.secondlife.com under Settings, Privacy to "Friends"... that would prevent a bot (or anyone) from reading your profile unless they are in your friends list, so if you have it set to SL or Everyone, nothing much could be done. My 2 cents, and biggest concern about bots, is the amount of resources they are using to scrape all that data... almost 28k regions, several bots visiting them a few times a day, easily in the 6 digits as a number of teleports (not counting “cap” requests), and now, that new one (BBts) scraping the marketplace every x milliseconds, all to display misleading data, that only LL would be able to provide in a way that actually matters... That can almost be called as a DOS attack. (Denial of Service, overloading systems until they crash...) We have all noticed the past few weeks systems going down or with temporary issues, how much of that would be caused by crazy bots overloading the system.... the worst would be LL increase prices due to bots usage! Another 2 cents to reduce issues with bots: Remove the price of the sale from the marketplace front page, and redirect links from products at the front page through an IP filter with max number of requests per hour/minute, making any attempt to scrape it useless. Add abandoned land list/search to the new land store, available to anyone. Add user land for sale list/search to the new land store, also available to anyone. Restrict the use of bots/viewers by max User IP/Region Server to a number that would make sense. Remove traffic from search algorithms completely, keeping its usage for display purposes (Destinations Guide and areas being promoted at login screen.)

It was a new Windows installation... I have nothing "against" AMD per say... but in my case, was just easier to return it and stick with NVidia, which I knew it would do a great job...

I think the land market (rental companies, etc...) are somewhat protected by the land prices itself, and with better "looking" land, that price will increase even more... some rental "businesses" work with group land, where the "user" can donate its tier, and pay less for more, way cheaper if you are going over the membership land allowed specially if you factor in the price of the land itself and the extra monthly tier... ( sometimes even on a private estate where your membership tier makes no difference ). Some rental "companies" just add a rental box on a bare land... some actually "develop" and decorate the land to provide better view /experience... so maybe some will be affected, some will actually grow even more. For sure someone that actually runs one of those businesses today can provide a better opinion. For SL is the game of "pennies", how many would actually buy more land and develop it while keeping the same tier (probably the good case scenario) vs how much would be "lost" in current tier (some PPlus would not have to pay for an extra 2048 in tier... )... your last sentence or argument goes for the "good case scenario"... and for sure your land would look better than an empty abandoned land...

I guess the main thing will be the "real dollars" they will spend compared to what they spend now (or not... )... if you kinda like SL, but it's not sure, and don't actually have any land.... $5.50 a month in a full year plan ($66) is not that bad... any perception of worth may change a lot if you "enjoy" or not SL... no questions Premium has a lot more to offer than Plus, its a better deal, and eventually, any Plus member may choose to "upgrade" to Premium or even Premium Plus... but it's not likely, someone new or starting in SL would have that "perception" of being worth right out of the gate (it is $99 dollars for a year, way more on monthly plans), neither someone just looking to save some money and still use SL (downgrading), specially if using multiple accounts and using group bonus to hold land. Edit: What I would really like is if the land allowed would be 1024, 2048 and 4096 sqm instead of 512, 1024, 2048 sqm for the same price! If the goal was to increase the usage of mainland, that would probably be a boost (even at the "granite" abandoned land) 😛 Another edit: Would also be "cool" if something like the above could be implemented as an incentive... keep a membership for a certain period of time... get a "boost" on land holdings for as long as you keep your membership....

You are right, I used mainland tier, cause I could not find or come up with an average... I looked for a few minutes in-world for a 512sqm rental, the few I found vary in rental price a lot, from almost nothing (80L/week) up to 500L/week ( parcel ocean front in a really nice decorated sim), the main idea was to maybe add that spreadsheet as a way of comparing costs in addition to the ones you posted, using real dollars, at least with me when I started, that was my "worry"... how much would I spend on the game, the numbers for sure can change on that column ( Tier ) depending on which "land" you would be looking for. Please share what would be more "realistic" prices for rentals, I can post a new screenshot with the new numbers... feel free to edit it as well.... for the linden to dollar conversion I was using the regular "Buy L$" at the account dashboard.

I think it makes a lot sense, but going a bit out of your main point... what one would probably consider is the relation between the amount of real dollars they are paying for the membership (or not) along with how much more they already spend buying lindens in a period for general purchases, rentals, etc... (specially if they don't have a source of linden dollars in game like a business, etc...), the premium membership gets you double the amount of linden dollars for an extra $33 real dollars .... ( but maybe that $33 would cost less than you would spend in real dollars to buy the same amount of lindens for purchases, etc... ). I think the new Plus is great as an option, and somewhat a smart move by LL... (specially for someone looking to start in SL or in some cases downgrade instead of leaving... ), Premium Plus, I'm not sure, maybe only if you really need or like the extras a lot (groups, hold double experience keys, etc... ), having two Premium accounts gets pretty close for less.... I know quite a few people that are using Premium Plus and it makes a lot of sense to them cause they get the stipend back.... close or more than what they would spend extra buying lindens every X months or so while on regular Premium ... specially with L$50, L$99 events all over... in summary, they would spend more than the Premium anyway.... and getting a few every week makes it more engaging... (always get some to spend.... along with other perks they like, more land... and spending less real dollars, than they would otherwise... ) Based on that, I would add the cost of owning/renting for that same land allowance to your spreadsheet, which is probably one of the main reasons of getting a membership... $48 a year for Plus, $84 for Premium, $156 for Premium Plus based on mainland tier for 512, 1024 and 2048 sqm... the amount of "money" you would save compared to not having a membership (can be seen either by saving on renting land or by not having to buy lindens)... would be about $14 for Plus, $47.4 for premium, $ 42.4 for Premium Plus assuming the math is correct... but its all about the "real" dollars you are paying before and after the membership... EDIT: the spreadsheet below shows year costs based on mainland tier and instant buy for Linden Dollars (it includes current transaction fees for buying lindens) and only takes in consideration land and lindens, not any other perks (linden homes instead of mainland, groups, etc..)... if you look at Premium Plus vs 2 Premium, it gives an idea of the dollar cost for the extra perks when comparing both... (less than US$ 5 dollars a month... and many may consider as nothing for the benefit of future 2048sqm linden homes, extra experience key, groups, etc, compared to what they already spend in-world )

Do you really believe it will "kill" SL? I have never seen a report from LL showing any statistic you mentioned (age, their market), neither I think I should see one (doesn’t matter to me, I cannot do anything with it other than being "nosy"), I believe you are guessing based on your own experience and people you interact with while playing SL (same with "do not use/have gaming computers that can handle ALM all the time" )… my perception is not the same as yours at all…( neither needs to be, actually, who cares? )… nonetheless… it’s just a guess or perception, may very well be true or not… I’m sure those statistics matter for LL and its management, do you really believe the new owners “bought” SL/Tilia just to sink it? That’s not really what it looks like considering the current improvements and how fast they are being pursued... Not being "trendy", considered old... to a point, SL never had a chance in the past... expensive, ugly graphics, and extremely low performance even using "beast gaming" machines… that was the norm until recently. I'm not sure how long you have been in SL, but a region used to cost over $1000 just to start... I bet it was hard to be in the "marketing" department at that time for SL, all you could say is "meet new people" along with quadratic pictures and "laggy" videos while charging a lot of money for it ... I believe price and perception of worth (what it actually offers vs what you pay) has a lot more to do with "not being trendy, considered old" than anything else... unfortunately that first impression did matter for many… and that is really hard to change... (many didn't want it, not even free... some, thankfully, are still here today!) It's a different time right now, November 2022, the recent updates (also the current work on Reflections/PBR, which looks awesome so far), will reduce the graphics gap by quite a lot (at the very least compared to other "metaverse" options), there is another thread started by Faith Incognito with a video showcasing reflections and a few posts below another video about PBR ( in fact, if you like "cars" in SL, you should really take a look, I thought it was not SL when I saw it first time ) ... I believe SL is finally giving itself a chance to grow meaningfully by "looking good" with "good and acceptable performance" compared to its peers (metaverse)... you don't need a "beast gaming machine" to experience SL with ALM, etc ... they will have to figure out that balance about price and perception of worth.... but it’s not nearly as expensive as it was … new user experience is also top of mind according to LL. Marketing will have a lot more to play with and showcase in 2023 (Didn’t they just hired its first CMO, Steven Feuling?)… be that playing cards in SL with friends, be that driving cars that don’t look far behind “Need for Speed” , be that a club, be that places to explore, be that for players 50+, be that for players 21+… SL is way more interesting… I’m sure it will have a much better chance to at least make people try it ( for many… try it again! ) and actually retain them … (I'm sure they are very well aware, care and want to keep current players enjoying the game, be them 20+, 40+, 50+ in age... ). Are we somewhat writing off the new project before even seeing what it is or what it will be able do ... kill first, ask after? … “Negative Nancy” posts are all over the forums about turning off ALM, PBR, etc, lol… I would say, if interesting to you, follow its development… Let LL know issues you are noticing while developing or after its done, they are the only ones that can actually do something about it… (it’s just a project anyway…and again, it may surprise you and maybe even add to how “happy” you are about SL today... Mesh adoption was quite similar… Belisseria, Linden Homes revamp also a good example...). A good rule of thumb to keep in mind for feedback is praise in public ( forums, etc), criticize in private (support ticket, direct comms channels, etc).. and during development, its about issues, not opinions... not easy sometimes. I don’t believe it will “kill” SL at all, completely the other way! I also don’t believe whoever is “happy” with what they use today (which is great) will be “out” of options ... really? ( TPV’s are a great example of it, Phoenix viewer kept the old UI for how long? )... Edit: Here is the video shared by Faith Incognito... shows a bit of what the PBR project may achieve... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-L4qTE56sw

Damn lol... not only it is SL, but it's really nice (so much that I didn't even believe it was in SL) Awesome job on both videos! That car also looks really nice, again... great job! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-L4qTE56sw (same link as you shared... )

It seems like it will... several of those test objects have "floating text" on top showing what seems to be "Metallic" and "Roughness" settings.... (I didn't really create/upload/edit a material or object there yet... maybe someone could jump in.... but I will try it sometime this week.... I'm not familiar with GLTF materials and its settings in SL... )

I'm not sure if we can or should publish avatar names here, but here it goes, its Ptolemy Tester and owned by another avatar at the beta grid, seems like one of the "dev's" avatars, I'm not sure... (there are quite a few of them all over, its quite a mess.... they look much better at the viewer itself then the snapshot, the reflections are not static.... go see it when you can... )

Here are another 2 snapshots showing fps, etc... in case someone is wondering... (of course not really comparable to anything.... but both with same setttings, one with 4 regions in view, another with just a set for materials/reflections.... ) btw, the machine specs are: I should have "waited" for everything to rez... but "them's the breaks":

Almost got me with that video, good job! lol, it's not SL (yet), but yes would/will be nice to get to that point! EDIT: It is SL! lol.... http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Margarita Bay/237/16/1007 (See the other video below, showing the car fatihfalmer1158 , is testing in Aditi... its a much better example of the new project) Here are some pictures of the beta grid (aka, Aditi), you can see some objects used by users and Lindens while developing and testing the project... there are several examples or tests for reflections and "materials", gold and silver actually looks like gold and silver! Its just an "alpha"! You can see them at this region: Rumpus Room 2 (secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Rumpus%20Room%202/180/146/23) using the alpha viewer... at the building with a sign on top (Probe Volume) you can see some examples of reflections on the floor, mirror wall, glass wall, etc, quite nice, homes in SL will look a lot more interesting! If you feel like, go see it.. download the viewer, login to the beta grid, search for that region on map. Pictures are in resolution 800x600 (so I could fit in this post...), environment set to default "midday".

I believe it's their choice, if worth to them, they can make arrangements... the world changes... not only SL (I would love to be able to use the old Motorola Startac my father had, I really like that phone, but guess what, I can't anymore )... In fact, I think its great that SL is changing and for the better! Also, please take it easy, I'm not saying you are against changes... everyone who knows and see your work appreciates you.... you, more than many, made and make great contributions ( You also don't let anyone forget what you do or did ). It's not about myself or anyone ( including you ) being right or wrong, or even be proven wrong or right, or missing the point.... (who cares?) It's up to the new owners/stakeholders/SL management, they will have to live with the results of their company... the only point of adding our 2 cents to this forum, is to just share our thoughts or point of view from what we are... users ( I'm not even sure they will actually even read it )... so don't take it personally or offensive.. and also don't expect as a user, to be exactly what you want it be! To your last sentence, it's a first alpha release... same happened with the performance improvement viewer in its alpha release (huge difference from alpha to current release), It's nice that they did released it!

Respectfully, I believe this argument it's the same or equivalent to the "thought" many had when SL introduced mesh support ("This will be the end of SL!!"), even though at that time many of the decisions taken by SL were somewhat disappointing, SL was in decline, many people just left, performance was already low, etc.. , people (we) adapt, I don't believe people playing SL on an "entry level" machine (machines that cannot handle a 3D game) is that "poor" (like you said in other thread), to an extent, its their choice, and more about their perception of worth, budget, sometimes even knowledge, which is alright! I think today, the SL dev team (in fact the whole SL team), deserve a lot more credit specially after the new owners took over, even your "Cool Viewer" would not be as fast if it wasn't for them... (I'm not discrediting at all the contributions and great work done on TPV's, but it's a huge difference of performance today, vs 6 or 7 months ago, better late than ever!), and based on the exchange you had with Dave, they are not only aware but believe they will be able to bridge the gap even for low performance machines, which means at least match what it is today ... ( still horrible using those machines, and not the focus at all in the gaming, metaverse industry as of now). My 2 cents, PBR, ALM and all of that will boost SL perception and will be great, will have its opportunities to improve, specially at the beginning but things are moving way faster than it used to be (which is great for anyone that likes to play SL... ), align those current improvements with (hopefully, as possible) making "land maintenance cost" more affordable, we may see a completely different SL economy in 2023, 2024, and many more years to come! Would not be nice if a full region monthly cost was around $140, along with the effects on tiers, ... in summary, see SL with a reasonable performance, looking good and affordable... some of it and almost everything else is already in place... that may actually move the needle for SL meaningfully, not a computer that can't render 3D games or metaverse as we see today... The world economy is not helping right now, but we've seen that before... at one point will get better again....

Entry level laptops, for SL or any other current 3D game purposes are already unusable or miserable (always have been actually... ), won't change anything, those machines have its pros, but... gaming is not one of those (maybe will never be...), anyone thinking on getting one of those mainly for SL purposes, much better of saving the money and keep an eye open for good deals.... anyone running SL at 5, 10, 15 FPS for sure like the game a lot (has to... cause it's horrible)... at 60 fps with ALM they will like it even more, I believe, if they never experienced....they don't know what a difference it is, and probably think its not worth even though they really like SL... , and options are available today to achieve that performance sometimes for half of the price of an "entry level" brand new and shiny laptop.... its a whole new SL experience!

I would say, give it a try, the worst thing that could happen is you just uninstall it (maybe remember why you "hate" it like you mentioned above). Firestorm (based on info from another tread) is the most used and preferred viewer (There is a reason for that... many use and appreciate the shortcuts and accessibility, also all the extra features/UI ). I use the official viewer almost all the time while in SL and I like it very much, I have nothing against using Firestorm or Black Dragon (they are all great!). What I like about the official viewer it feels "clean and simple" to me compared to others, I like the default "skin" colors, seems like, less to worry about, I really appreciate simple and easy, specially when it does what I need, also I don't mind clicking an extra dropdown for a feature I rarely use, I don't experience any "major" issues using it, I don't remember when was the last time I had a failed teleport other than, when the grid was under maintenance, or a known issue was going on... same with the inventory and "white cloud" issues some are experiencing now... ( Probably good to point out... I believe my internet connection is fast enough with low latency connecting to SL servers (no Wifi)... I don't add many attachments to the avatar I use, at most, there will be like 30 scripts running, under 24000 rendering cost.... my inventory is quite small (compared to what I hear) with just a little under 50k items (way too much for me... ), only a few "old backup folders" with more than, lets say 50 items at the same folder... I don't keep what I don't need at the inventory, I'm not a "prim/mesh hoarder" , and I "clean it up" quite often.... I'm sure those things help a lot with keeping crashes at a low rate along with that perception of lag, failed teleports... no matter what viewer you are using). From a FPS standpoint, I also have no complaints, the official viewer works great with my setup, more or less the same, depending on the region compared to other viewers ( specially after the performance improvement!). The only drawback on the official viewer for me, is the default LOD factor set to 1.125, that makes that "first" login, first impression after loading just ... well... let's say... "disappointing"... I do change it to 4.0 using debug settings (RenderVolumeLODFactor), and stays that way most of the time specially while visiting other regions, and back to 2.0 while creating/uploading something... 2.0 is the default in Firestorm, which is the most used viewer.

My 2 cents... if your main goal is to use for SL, stay away from that laptop... even delete the bookmark, browser history if you can! The video card on that laptop would work great for videos, general browsing, office, etc... but for SL (or any current 3D game), it will be a nightmare (slow and Intel drivers... I have a similar handheld mini computer ), not to count, you will think the laptop wants to fly due to fan noise and heat while lagging in SL ( punt intended, its not playing SL, its "lagging" SL). For a laptop (a brand new one, today), you would need one with a built in video card with at least (or close ) to the Nvidia XX60 mobile (2060, 3060 or better).... here is a video comparing the 3050 TI which is commonly available in new laptops which they call a "gaming" laptop... basically what I'm saying, you may want to stay away from any XX50 or XX50ti (even though the mobile 3050 TI current generation might be able to run SL). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2FkgeTZpzY I think you would need to bump up (unfortunately, quite a bit ) your budget to get a laptop (a brand new one) that would allow you to actually play SL... one with a configuration similar to the one at the link below: https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GF65-Thin-10UE-047-i7-10750H/dp/B08BZQ9499 Please notice I mentioned "similar" configuration... (I don't own and never had any MSI brand laptops, etc...)... HP Victus 16 also has the option to configure the laptop before you buy it.... 8GB ram is ok, but 16GB is better.... video card being at least Nvidia XX60 (2060, 3060) would handle SL ok even being a mobile version.... keep an eye on reviews, info about overheating, RMA (people that actually had to return the laptop), etc... (warranty, and the ability to return if you want should probably be something for you to keep in mind as well.... ) I know it would cost more, but you will enjoy it a lot more, not only with SL... ( SL will be a completely different experience compared to the one you mentioned, and in most places with all the bells and whistles...) Another 1 cent... if using desktop is an option for you (keeping SL as the main goal)... go for it.. way cheaper for the same configuration, you may have the option to upgrade a specific part when you need, not as easy to break, way less to worry about overheating.... even better if you can use a physical network cable for your internet connection ( computer to router...). You may also keep in mind, a desktop version of the same mobile video card, generally performs better and lasts a lot longer... ( look for information comparing the 3060 desktop vs 3060 mobile... )

I use the 3060 12gb (Asus version), and does a great job playing SL along with 11700k processor using a full hd monitor (1080p)... very smooth (I use the SL official viewer...), in synthetic benchmarks seems like in most games, performance is the same (or slightly higher) compared to the 6600XT (available on the internet)... what seems to be a nice to have, is the 120W power usage with the 6600xt (advertised) compared to the 170W for the 3060.... maybe someone that actually uses a 6600XT with the new drivers AMD would have more to add... I tried AMD (model from about 2 generations ago), it lasted less than a hour installed in my machine... some games were ok, lots of issues with others, noise...., not to count Blender support for AMD was not that great at that time.... I just returned and got the NVidia 1060... luckily enough, the Nvidia equivalent was almost the same price and was on a sale due to a new generation launch (RTX 2000 series), for me, even if it was more expensive, it would be well worth the cost compared to dealing with issues, tweaking, change this, change that.... (In summary my short experience with AMD was disappointing... I still have the 970, 1060, 1080 and now 3060, they all worked great for me, not only playing SL ) Btw, according to rumors, most of the 4000-series is set to launch in January 2023, so you may find the 3060 cheaper than what you can find today, or even get the 4060 hopefully for the same price... specially if you have a store like MicroCenter (US) nearby...