Gabriele Graves

I don't know why there is even an argument about people's right to be a jerk. That's one of those inalienable ones. We don't have to like it but there it is and it is our opinion only that a person is or is not. People will be jerks regardless, we cannot stop them being jerks. If we remove all things people can be jerks with, we will literally have nothing left. Technical measures, social measures, nothing has cured humanity of the jerk nor will it ever so we have to be careful about the steps we take and make sure we are not throwing the baby out with the bath water when we try to limit the impact of jerks.

That's not an orb. This topic is about orbs isn't it? Are ban lines the problem now too?. Should all security for a parcel on mainland be removed for the "right" to travel?

To state the obvious (but sometimes it needs stating): The answer to the question of what mainland access rights we will have in the future will only come in the form of action or inaction from LL. Until then all we can do is talk about what we think should/should not happen.

So, how are we doing team? What's the half time score?

I think the use of the "rights" here is more like licensing rights that you certainly can buy rather than human rights for example. Whatever it is, those who pay have more of them over the land they acquire than those that don't. That doesn't seem to be in doubt. Belli does work well for those that want it but I believe that it is because there is no sense of ownership because it is a rental only and the rules were different right at the beginning. Different expectations were able to be set that way. There is no reason to think this could be applied to mainland without changing the face of mainland completely. The whole Linden Homes 2 estate is now massive and getting bigger each month. Why does that need to become the only non-private estate product available by assimilating mainland when there is enough land mass to satisfy anyone's travelling needs? I think it is better to have different products for different customers. Finally, the logic that is applied to why mainland should be changed to match Belli could equally be applied to private estates. The only difference between private estates and mainland is the price of the product, not the concept. All the same reasons could be applied there too.

I remember a lot of people being unhappy because even though they were given plots on Zindra or have to abide by moderate ratings the plots were not considered to be as good as the land they had before. They weren't given a choice of course except to not have adult stuff. I wouldn't hold that up as a shining example of policy making but I believe they at least felt their hands were tied. The teen grid was closing or closed and they needed to move most of the most extreme content to a clearly adult designated area to avert, at least perceived, liabilities. This is nothing like that however. They don't have to do anything. Don't get me wrong, LL can do anything they please, I don't think anyone has argued otherwise but the real question is whether they should. One side says yes, the other says no. Lots of pretty polarising opinions and no real path to a consensus because nobody is going to budge. I don't think that any of our opinions here should have an affect on what LL decide or does not decide to do either. I would be horrified if the opinions of this tiny segment of the userbase were all that were considered if a change was to be made. I would rather LL make that decision based on the way that makes business sense for them than use opinions from an unelected forum lobby group to represent the userbase. Of course what LL ultimate wants to do may be completely different from what we all want or imagine they will do in the long run too.

I think you have misunderstood me. I am very aware of what happened with the maturity ratings and Zindra. The rules I am referring to are the land access/scripted orb use rules. Those are the ones pertinent to this discussion and they haven't changed.

It's possible that the one of the system items in your cache became corrupted and the viewer saw this as an edit to that item and uploaded it to the server as an update which then corrupted the item on the server. I've heard of instances of this happening. Your friend may have that item cached and uncorrupted still on their system so when they logged in to your account, it used their cached version instead of downloading the corrupted one. Unless they emptied their cache, they wouldn't see the problem. The server doesn't need help from the viewer to find the assets in your inventory. If you have cleared your cache and the server is still saying it cannot find the asset (item) then it is pretty certain that the server copy is toast. It's not possible to know for sure what happened but that guide is all we have to help except to contact LL support. I've personally had this happen to me with a shape on several occasions but luckily I had copies of my shape, made a new copy, wore that and the issue when away. I was prepared to do that with a fresh copy of my skin, eyes and brow shaper if necessary. I knew this was the issue because when I changed to a starter avatar, everything started to load again and I realised the issue was with the worn assets and only the four mandatory system assets prevent you coming out of the cloud.

This is what is known as bake fail. I am not surprised reinstalling doesn't help. The issue is with your inventory. One of the most likely causes is that one or more of the four system mandatory items you must wear has become damaged and cannot be loaded so the cloud stays because loading cannot complete. The four items are: System : Skin, Hair (or baldy, hairbase), Shape and Eyes. Below is a link that will tell you what to try to fix this. Please follow all the steps and if nothing works, you may have to put in a support ticket. https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_bake_fail

Implementing it on an already highly managed estate with no buy/sell options and with the expectation that it is LL who will decide what the best experience would definitely be an easier task socially. The Linden Homes estates are an ideal place to try this if they are keen.

I hope you never give up on vehicles though. If there is one area that I wish LL could improve, it's the support for vehicles. It's one of the major things that makes SL special in my opinion and those who never try them are majorly missing out on a lot of fun.

Hmmm, yes I've been aware of this idea circulating in various forms for a good number of years myself. I can guarantee I wasn't aware of it quite as far back as 2007 though and I didn't know that LL had tested some options around this, so thanks for that info. I personally wouldn't put much up near 4096 though as the object drift gets a little insane and mesh attachments start to misbehave. It's not that there is no merit to this idea and I can definitely see the appeal I would probably use it to hide a small skybox myself though most of my build is on the ground. However if it is designed as a way to allow enforce the "explorers" option then it will not be appreciated regardless for the reasons I've gone over a few times lol If it were to be created then I would imagine that current zero-second orbs users who use skyboxes would love it but still want to keep their orbs to stop others traversing their space. I can imagine the can of worms it opens though perhaps that is why it hasn't gone anywhere.

They haven't changed these rules on mainland since their inception however. Perhaps it could be viewed that those aren't absolutes either, after all private estates are still just another LL product in the same way that mainland is an LL product and rules could change there also. It could also be argued that mainland as it has remained unchanged in this regard for so long is also a place for control and privacy to a lesser degree. Private estates are a newer product after all.

It would be nice if blocked poster's posts did not appear in the activity list.

It's Monday afternoon on a public holiday where I am

Nobody can agree on what is or is not an improvement as far as I can tell. Forums is also a microcosm and not relevant as a sample size. I prefer the term cauldron of creativity Again, this only depends on your point of view. It could be argued that this approach has worked and keeps working for LL and their customers because people still care about mainland after all this time and the rules around access have not changed since access controls were added. If LL decide that this is no longer of benefit to those customers or themselves, we may well see some change and it may make the residents who like it the way it is unhappy too. This discussion is about what people want though and there are diametrically opposed views about what people want.

The rules over mainland has achieved and maintained a level of stability for a good number of years now though. I'm not saying they (LL) couldn't change things but that maybe the fragility I mentioned would mean upsetting an apple cart of good for no good reason. The status quo is easier to maintain.

I thought I would respond to this bit separately. I think any reasoning that mainland is a civil society is flawed. It is the wild west for the most part as far as SL is concerned. It should be treated that way. If you can tame a bit of it, all the power to you, if not and decide it isn't for you, that is OK too.

You could look at it that way and that is certainly your right to a point of view but it was sold the way it was sold. For some things it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

I think all this serves to highlight the fragility of mainland. It is a unique thing and you either love it or hate it. However trying to change it is likely to ruin it rather than save it in my opinion. I believe this is why LL make very few changes and instead offer alternative places where these activities can be done with better results.

Sure, it could be done. However, it still wouldn't be popular. It is still asking some to give up the complete control they bought and flying enthusiasts don't want to fly at 5000m because there is nothing to look at.

That's a very interesting question with a can of worms attached really. How far do you go with the devaluing land aspect? It is mainland we are talking about. People value different things differently. There are far more things built on the land that some would argue devalue the land as well. I would speculate that if we were to travel down the road on changing whatever devalues land, mainland as we know it would not exist just another managed space.

Hang on a sec. Love didn't say "unfettered access" he just said "access" and there has been at least one poster who has posted saying that they should have the ability to cross over or through someone's land even if that person doesn't want to give that access. This is exactly what the complaint about "over-eager" orbs is all about.

The land baron who owns it might feel differently about not being able to offer land access controls to their customers however and still feel cheated.

When I travel through mainland, especially by water, I have my mini-map on-screen at a reasonably large size with land boundaries showing. This easily show where the public land begins/ends. If it gets tricky I can zoom it closer to make sure I navigate well. This seems to work well for me. I agree with the sentiment however that LL bears the responsibility of selling land near public access routes without enough buffers. It is a bit mystifying as to why they couldn't foresee issues.