group owner needing deletion . . . .

[Anek Fuchs]

     since april 25th 2008 I have been an active musician in second life, to loyal fans and friends and any venue that wished to book me, and this tradition still goes on strong. yesterday I receive troubling news that my former manager, and friend, has decided to start bashing me to other venues, including one which i am a part owner.  This person is marring my character verbally, as well as that of my partner, and also well known musician in Second Life, Gina Stella. I have filed a report, but I am told that ill not likely get the request because im not a premium member, but i have been, and can be again tomorrow.

 so far other than the standard message you get, stating you should be sure you want to add an owner, because you cannot delete one once this takes place, I have heard it can happen.

     I have seen people say start a new group, which is simply not an option, because this is my fan group, which I started and built, and I cannot lose the 580 fans in that group, and do not wish to state in the group that there is an issue at hand. I am dropping a notecard to the person asking her to remove herself, but it is not likely going to happen. I dont need the drama in my group, or on my name, I have had enough of my own self created problems before this occured. I am the creator of the group, I spent the 100 lindens to do it, and have always supported music in sl in its finest venues, and with the finest artists and fans, we are all like a family of our own.

   I am looking for assistance by anyone with power to do so, and hopefully, the report I filed will get me that before this turns into something else in my group. 

 

   thanks for any assistance in this matter.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Unless the Lindens agree to eject herm which is highly doubtful,  there is really nothing you can do about this unless she resigns.  This is why they say to be careful about giving the owner role. 

If you need to start a new group, its best to give a manager or other assistant an officer role and then go to the roles tab and give them any authorities they need to have that an officer doesn't get automatically.  You can give them the same authorities as an Owner, however you will always be able to eject them from your group if they become a problem.

 

[wiked Anton]

as is said already, your only option is to start a new group, then send a notecard to all OTHER members saying you will be deleting the old group and please join the new group, you dont have to tell them the problems. once you have started the new group, NEVER EVER add someone as an owner. give them officer roles which you can control how much admin they have then. I used to own a live venue, am a muso in RL and know the type of things that can happen, especially after a dissolved partnership. Keep this in your mind as a learning experience. good luck, hope all goes well fom here on........

[Phil Deakins]

This is an example of why I post never to go into an equal SL business partnership with another SL person, as such arrangements can easily end up badly. In this case, it's not a business and it hasn't cost anything, except the 100L but that's nothing.

The way out of it is simple, even though it's not desirable. The way out is to start another group and send a notice to the current group's members, to the effect that the group is changing, and the current group will soon be done away with (you can't close it if she doesn't want you to), so please join the new group. Then, after a while, eject everyone in the current group, except the co-owner because you can't eject an owner. She'll probably have an alt in it, so the group won't close.

An alternative is to live with things as they are. If she doesn't use the group to 'campaign' against you., it might be fine.

ETA: Another thought. If the group is set to show in search, then it's costing 30L a week. So set it to not show in search. If she alters that, do it again and, if she alters it again, then you should have grounds for LL to become involved and sort it out the way you want it, because she would be depriving you of money and you can't prevent her from her doing it.

[wiked Anton]

Gosh phil, you nailed it on the head there....DUH. as it was already said twice before.

[Phil Deakins]

I said three things. The first had been said already, but not in as much detail. The second and third hadn't been suggested at all.

But, since you found it useful to repeat what someone else had already written, I don't think that my repetition was altogether out of place. You started your post with "as is said already" and then made the same suggestion that someone else had written Think of it as 3 votes for that idea instead of 2 - yours being only the second.

[Ann Otoole]

Did anyone say to go through the arduous process of inviting all the old members to the new group so they don't have to try finding it in search?

 

Oh, and yes, never make anyone but an alt an owner of a group you want to keep. (is that 4 times pounding it in enough yet?

[Phil Deakins]

You're the first to suggest the arduous process of inviting the hundreds of current members into the new group

Personally, I wouldn't do all that. I'd just settle for two group notices. One as described, and the second just before ejecting the current group's members.

I agree completely about not having anyone other than onesself (main and alt(s)) as group owners. The trouble is that people trust each other, and they are highly trustable at the time, but things can change and some people have an untrustworthy trait lurking below the surface. Most don't, but some do.

[Anek Fuchs]

fans are like family, and ive moved a group like this before, and suffered major losses over it, I cant do that with my current concept, because its how i make my living, so seeing as she has already ruined credibility with certain venues for me, shouldnt that be grounds? if so, then the report for her defamation of character, should suffice, but it is a well known issue, that it takes more than a few reports to get things moving along . . . so, while yes, 4, 3, 5, any amount of times were plenty to drive h9ome what was a mistake  . . . but alas, I am still at the same crossroads. I believe it should be changed that we would be ABLE to make this demotion, since we own the groups we create. at least let me get her out of the owner role, would only make sense, its my gorup, my fans, and my character she is slaying.

[Phil Deakins]

You could try an AR and explain the situation. It might work. It won't work if you don't try it, of course. The suggestions here are about what you can do yourself to rectify the situation, and an AR is a case of crossing your fingers and hoping - for goodness knows how long.

You may not like this next bit but I think it's likely to be realistic...

You said you have 580 "fans", because you have 580 group members (I expect the group is called something like "Fans of Anek Fuchs"). But the probablitiy is that they aren't all fans. When I go to live music, Invitations to join such groups appear on my screen.. I always decline, but many people just accept because the invitation is there, without actually being fans of the entertainer. If the entertainer did away with the old group, started a new one, and sent one or two old group notice for people to join the new group, real fans would do it, while many non-fans wouldn't. You said that, when you did it before, you had "major losses over it". I'm suggesting that they weren't all "fans", so they weren't real losses.

When you perform, you probably send out one or two group notices with an LM to the venue. Every live performance I've been to has room for more people to arrive. If your 580 group members were all real fans, the places would always be full and many people who wanted to get in wouldn't be able to. I may be wrong, but I doubt that that happens.

If it were me in your situation, I would want to take full control, and I would do it, knowing that many non-fans wouldn't tranfer to the new group. I would tell myself that there's no real point in having hundreds of non-fans in the group, because they don't turn up to the gigs anyway. And I think I'd be right with that view. I see no merit in having hundreds of non-fans in the group.

ETA: You could start a new group straight away and, every time you perform, your people could send invitations to the new group. While you are performing, you could also say that the new group will be future. At the same time, you could send notices out in the old group, stating that the new group is the future. I.e. it could be done gradually, with both groups running for quite some time. If she uses the old group's notices against you, then I'm sure you'd get some action from LL.