Für Elise

[Dresden Ceriano]

May I ask why Elise Linden is modifying the poster known as Linden Lab's posts?  Is she the one who's been posting them from the start? Is she actually the Community Manager as it states in her forum profile, or is she still just the Integrated Marketing Manager as it states on her inworld profile?

Inquiring minds what to know.

...Dres

[Pamela Galli]

The positions that some Lindens hold, as I understand it, is  a very closely held secret. I find this very odd. Why should this be a secret?  Can anyone enlighten me on this?  What is to be gained?  (And what is to be lost?)

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

The positions that some Lindens hold, as I understand it, is  a very closely held secret. I find this very odd. Why should this be a secret?  Can anyone enlighten me on this?  What is to be gained?  (And what is to be lost?)

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They can certainly keep things secret if they so choose, but why give the impression that they want to engage their users in the discussion?  Wouldn't transparency be crucial to that discussion?  Is it not hypocritical to say you want to communicate with your user base, then, not only keep important information from them, but ostracize them for telling you want they think as well?

Inquiring minds would certainly like to know, would they not?

...Dres

[Venus Petrov]

As a member of this 'community' I would like to know who is the (new) Community Manager?  And, when will we start having decent CTUG meetings again?  Is this new manager the 'special Linden' at the upcoming meeting?  If it is as an introduction, I sure hope that they plan to do some listening as well.

Given there has not been a decent CTUG meeting in months, we have much to say.

It would have been great had the new Community Manager started a thread in Forum Feedback introducing themselves and inviting comments.  It can still happen. 

There is a suggestion for you.

[Ellyn Elan]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:... but why give the impression that they want to engage their users in the discussion?  Wouldn't transparency be crucial to that discussion?  Is it not hypocritical to say you want to communicate with your user base, then, not only keep important information from them, but ostracize them for telling you want they think as well?

Inquiring minds would certainly like to know, would they not?

...Dres

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Dres, my response is On Topic and goes specifically to your phrase "want to engage their users in the discussion" and "but ostracize them for telling you what they think." I also make a nodding reference, as opposed to a cut-paste quote, to Venus in her remarks that follow yours.

 I went back and re-read the community guidelines and yes, I mean re-read. I'm relatively new to THIS forum but have been a participant in various forums over the years and have never once ran afoul of a community guideline, TOS infringement or anything remotely like that. So I have been quite puzzled by some recent events because I have been making statements either for pure entertainment in the General Discussion Forum or have been making comments that I consider to be productive, constructive and fostering a caring attitude about Second Life and the operations of this Forum. The remarks purely for entertainment in the GDF would appear to be acceptable according to the Guidelines. Have I read this section incorrectly? Inquiring minds want to know, especially to provide a more productive environment for conversations about Second Life.

I received the following in my mail today, for obvious reasons.

Abuse of Moderation or Moderators: Please honor our moderation process and the decisions that come out of it; they are being made in order to provide you with a productive environment for conversations about Second Life. 

The emphasis added is mine because I am puzzled. I find it difficult to honor a process that I do not understand and it is very hard to understand when it is not transparent. I am not criticizing the process, I'm sure the fault is purely mine and my lack of understanding is due to my woeful inability to read things that are not there. My puny little mind is unable to understand how some of these unnamed processes made by unnamed people are providing a productive environment for conversations about SL or anything else. I need some clarification!

Along with the quote from the guidelines was a mention of possibly being unable to post here and again I'm puzzled. Would that be a BAD thing? I don't know. I've been a participant in SL for years and have only just started posting here, mainly due to an unexpected RL situation and so would being unable to post here be a hardship? Would it diminish the environment for a productive conversation about Second Life if I, and people like me, were not allowed to post here? I've not posted here for years but as a (hopefully) constructive member of the SL community with a (hopefully) useful perspective, I'm just all around puzzled as to my place in the equation. From what I've read in other sources, the SL resident referred to in your sig line is also a constructive member of the SL community with a useful perspective, so again, I'm puzzled as to the seemingly at odds desire for "providing a productive environment for conversations about SL" and the apparent desire to remove productive community members from the conversations. I know it is just me. I'm daft.

I hope that inquiring minds are part of the productive environment but I did not see that phrase in the guidelines so I'm concerned.

[Pamela Galli]

Ellyn, I think it is important, for those of us who enjoy discussion, to have a well-moderated place to do that.

Many of us here came from very lively forums -- Xstreet or the old LL Forums -- and LL closed those down, to our very great regret.  A lot of people went to third party forums at that point, but the lack of moderation there makes them often a pretty unpleasant place. 

So -- this is it*, esp if you want to discuss SL.

The moderation keeps brawling in check -- but as you have observed, it has swerved into the ditch on the other side now.  I know it must be difficult to hit the moderation mark every time, but this is not even close.

I know I am not alone in being glad you are posting here -- you do contribute positively to to this forum.  Too bad the Lindens don't seem able to recognize that. 

 

 

*There is also a new small, well moderated forum, but it is not open membership.

[Ellyn Elan]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Ellyn, I think it is important, for those of us who enjoy discussion, to have a well-moderated place to do that.

Many of us here came from very lively forums -- Xstreet or the old LL Forums -- and LL closed those down, to our very great regret.  A lot of people went to third party forums at that point, but the lack of moderation there makes them often a pretty unpleasant place. 

So -- this is it*, esp if you want to discuss SL.

The moderation keeps brawling in check -- but as you have observed, it has swerved into the ditch on the other side now.  I know it must be difficult to hit the moderation mark every time, but this is not even close.

I know I am not alone in being glad you are posting here -- you do contribute positively to to this forum.  Too bad the Lindens don't seem able to recognize that. 

 

 

*There is also a new small, well moderated forum, but it is not open membership.

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Thank you for your response, Pamela. In the spirit of full disclosure I'm a fan of your store but we've never spoken! :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

I agree about the need for moderation. I think that is a given to anyone who has participated in any kind of Internet posting for long. In many places the brawling you mention would be the least of it and in my recent wanderings into other third party forums and blogs, I know exactly the kind of unpleasant places to which you are referring. I have no interest in that. Lively discussions, yes. Constructive criticizing yes. Unrestrained, ugly flame fests just because you can--no thanks.

If this is it* for a place to discuss SL then I'm back to my question: Would being prevented from doing so here be a bad thing? At this point my answer to this is getting to be a rather bored shrug of the shoulders. Eh.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Ellyn Elan wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Ellyn, I think it is important, for those of us who enjoy discussion, to have a well-moderated place to do that.

Many of us here came from very lively forums -- Xstreet or the old LL Forums -- and LL closed those down, to our very great regret.  A lot of people went to third party forums at that point, but the lack of moderation there makes them often a pretty unpleasant place. 

So -- this is it*, esp if you want to discuss SL.

The moderation keeps brawling in check -- but as you have observed, it has swerved into the ditch on the other side now.  I know it must be difficult to hit the moderation mark every time, but this is not even close.

I know I am not alone in being glad you are posting here -- you do contribute positively to to this forum.  Too bad the Lindens don't seem able to recognize that. 

 

 

*There is also a new small, well moderated forum, but it is not open membership.

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Thank you for your response, Pamela. In the spirit of full disclosure I'm a fan of your store but we've never spoken! :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

I agree about the need for moderation. I think that is a given to anyone who has participated in any kind of Internet posting for long. In many places the brawling you mention would be the least of it and in my recent wanderings into other third party forums and blogs, I know exactly the kind of unpleasant places to which you are referring. I have no interest in that. Lively discussions, yes. Constructive criticizing yes. Unrestrained, ugly flame fests just because you can--no thanks.

If this is it* for a place to discuss SL then I'm back to my question: Would being prevented from doing so here be a bad thing? At this point my answer to this is getting to be a rather bored shrug of the shoulders. Eh.

 

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*shrugs his shoulders *

...Dres

[Innula Zenovka]

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Charly Muggins wrote:

I am fairly new to these forums, Pamela. Are there other places that are as informative and perhaps less tight-sphinctered regarding cultural protocols, and if so, perhaps you or someone else could direct me to them?

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The two main third-party forums are SCII and SLU,  SLU is, I think, larger and more active than is this place, though it's not to everyone's taste, certainly.   I like it there a lot, but, as Pamela suggests, fights there can get rather bruising.   

[Innula Zenovka]

He certainly posts at SLU now and again, as do Soft and Oz sometimes.

[Innula Zenovka]

Rodvik posts here, too, of course, now and again.

I think it's just SLU is a large and active forum where many established content creators and landowners post, not least because people can speak more freely there than -- for obvious reasons -- they can do here, sometimes.

Also, it's been suggested that his posts in the official blog sometimes get considerably more attention at SLU (which mirrors them) than do they here.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

This issue, of course, has come up before. The last time we kicked up a fuss, Rodvik did pop in. More to the point, we saw a sudden increase in participation within the threads here of Linden staff generally.

Dear Rodvik. Please Phone Home. 

The rules have changed here somewhat since then, but maybe it's time that LL started to reassert a more visible and transparent presence here again?

ETA. I think Rodvik is responsive, even if he sometimes needs a bit of goading. I expect him to reply, if not here (where it might be seen as undercutting his own staff), then in his profile feed.

[Ellyn Elan]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

This issue, of course, has come up before. The last time we kicked up a fuss, Rodvik did pop in. More to the point, we saw a sudden increase in participation within the threads here of Linden staff generally.

 

Dear Rodvik. Please Phone Home.

 

The rules have changed here somewhat since then, but maybe it's time that LL started to reassert a more visible and transparent presence here again?

ETA. I think Rodvik is responsive, even if he sometimes needs a bit of goading. I expect him to reply, if not here (where it might be seen as undercutting his own staff), then in his profile feed.

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Perhaps the undercutting gentle guidance of his staff should be done at a meeting and then a beneficent posting made here?

[Ellyn Elan]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

This issue, of course, has come up before. The last time we kicked up a fuss, Rodvik did pop in. More to the point, we saw a sudden increase in participation within the threads here of Linden staff generally.

 

Dear Rodvik. Please Phone Home.

 

The rules have changed here somewhat since then, but maybe it's time that LL started to reassert a more visible and transparent presence here again?

ETA. I think Rodvik is responsive, even if he sometimes needs a bit of goading. I expect him to reply, if not here (where it might be seen as undercutting his own staff), then in his profile feed.

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Ugh.

I just looked at the link to the thread you provided. It was dated April 2011, so apparently these are not new problems with this Forum. That was educational -- and depressing.

/me gathers up the urls for the 3rd party forums