Rigged Mesh - Skin Weight

[Sokoda Soulstar]

Right, so I did a little bit of research... that just ended up seriously confusing me.  Long story short, for the past two days I've been trying to upload a Rigged mesh Avatar.  Which in itself making a rigged mesh wasn't too hard.  I did it in Blender (both 2.49 & 2.57).  Of course when I finally got to the upload screen - I'd check *skin weights* and the upload button would disappear from sight.  Thus, is when I finally got to doing some more of the research and found a couple of the forums that said something along the lines of skeleton names...21 of them.  So, I went though one by one and renamed each of the skeletons to the ones in SL.  "hips, neck, head, rForeArm..etc" needless to say that didn't work.  

Well then I went and thought it was just the wrong type of mesh I was using... so I downloaded this "MakeHuman" open source project.  That was cool, up until the point when I imported it into Blender and tried to export it as DAE... it still didn't work.  

So I followed another path, http://blog.machinimatrix.org/3d-creation/blender-meshes-trail/rigg-your-avatar/ that one to be exact.  And I thought for sure this one would work.... but yeah.... failed too.  (Maybe it was that hidden 'make real' button that I can't seem to find) So...Daz Studio was a no go, Blender 2.49 & 2.57 was a no, MakeHuman also a no, even my own mesh from ingame was a no.  

But all in all, long story short... I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.  I tried to rename the skeletons, I tried to use the rig that I acutally got from SL, I tried a number of different meshes, I really just don't know what else to try now.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd return the favour as best I can.  

(This isn't a problem with normal meshes - I've uploaded terrian meshes and housing meshes already - it just doesn't seem to work with Skin Weights...if you need or request any of the files that I've been using I'll glady offer them.)  

 

- Thanks ahead of time... ^^' 

[KeeperS Karu]

---

Sokoda Soulstar wrote:

Right, so I did a little bit of research... that just ended up seriously confusing me.  Long story short, for the past two days I've been trying to upload a Rigged mesh Avatar.  Which in itself making a rigged mesh wasn't too hard.  I did it in Blender (both 2.49 & 2.57).  Of course when I finally got to the upload screen - I'd check *skin weights* and the upload button would disappear from sight.  Thus, is when I finally got to doing some more of the research and found a couple of the forums that said something along the lines of skeleton names...21 of them.  So, I went though one by one and renamed each of the skeletons to the ones in SL.  "hips, neck, head, rForeArm..etc" needless to say that didn't work.  

 

Well then I went and thought it was just the wrong type of mesh I was using... so I downloaded this "MakeHuman" open source project.  That was cool, up until the point when I imported it into Blender and tried to export it as DAE... it still didn't work.  

 

So I followed another path,

http://blog.machinimatrix.org/3d-creation/blender-meshes-trail/rigg-your-avatar/

 that one to be exact.  And I thought for sure this one would work.... but yeah.... failed too.  (Maybe it was that hidden 'make real' button that I can't seem to find) So...Daz Studio was a no go, Blender 2.49 & 2.57 was a no, MakeHuman also a no, even my own mesh from ingame was a no.  

 

But all in all, long story short... I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.  I tried to rename the skeletons, I tried to use the rig that I acutally got from SL, I tried a number of different meshes, I really just don't know what else to try now.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd return the favour as best I can.  

 

(This isn't a problem with normal meshes - I've uploaded terrian meshes and housing meshes already - it just doesn't seem to work with Skin Weights...if you need or request any of the files that I've been using I'll glady offer them.)  

 

- Thanks ahead of time... ^^' 

---

You might have already done this, but I figure it couldn't hurt to mention them, anyhow:

1) Make sure that you've included all the groups.

2) Make sure that all the group names are spelled correctly.

3) Make sure that EVERY polygon has been assigned to a group. I don't use Blender, so I couldn't tell you how to check this with Blender. However, there is a free program called UVMapper. From what I recall (it's been a while, and I'm just getting back into playing with all of these programs, again, myself), you should be able to have all of the polygons in the UVMap colored according to group.Do this, and you'll know if you've missed a few polygons in your grouping.

These suggestions are based on what I've read about uploading rigged meshes and, especially, getting a rigged mesh meant to act as clothing for the standard avatar to attach properly. When reading about it, it didn't sound that much different than the steps needed to make conforming clothing for a Poser/Daz|Studio figure, and from my misadventures into those projects, I've discovered that everything tends to come down to making sure that ALL of your polygons have properly been assigned to the appropriate group, and making sure that your groups names are spelled properly. These things can be easy to miss, on the first pass. In fact, most of my hours rigging a piece of conforming clothing was spent going back and forth, trying to get the polygons assigned to their appropriate groups, before it dawned on me to simply see how well UVMapper would work for a project like that. It really helped, so you might want to try it out.

To better troubleshoot your problem, you may also want to try making a simple rigged mesh meant to conform/attach to the SL avatar. Go through the above steps, making sure that the mesh has been grouped and rigged, properly, then first seeing if the clothing properly conforms to the the SL avatar in Daz|Studio. If, when posing the avatar model, the clothing conforms and poses just fine along with the avatar, then try to see how it holds up when uploading the mesh into SL.

Again, I easily admit that I'm no exert. In fact, I've a lot of experimenting to do, myself. But these are the steps I'd take, first, to see what the problem is.

 

EDIT: Whoops! I mentioned UVMapper without giving you a convenient link to the web site: http://www.uvmapper.com/downloads.html

 

EDIT 2: I noticed in the link you provided that steps are included to extract the SL avatar's .obj file. You might want to try downloading the one from the following link: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Clothing_Tutorials

Click on the link titled: Second Life Avatar Meshes. These meshes seem to be already nice and properly configured for you, so working from those might actually help.

[Sokoda Soulstar]

Thanks a lot I'll give a shot and hope that everything goes to work out.  Chances are you're right about miss-naming some polygons somewhere... 

Also thanks for the links, sure to be a massive help.  I'm going to use each of these and start over from them - and do like you said.  Start with an extremely avatar - then slowly move to more and more advanced.

 

Best of luck to you my friend, and thanks for all the help.   

[KeeperS Karu]

---

Sokoda Soulstar wrote:

Thanks a lot

I'll give a shot and hope that everything goes to work out.  Chances are you're right about miss-naming some polygons somewhere... 

 

Also thanks for the links, sure to be a massive help.  I'm going to use each of these and start over from them - and do like you said.  Start with an extremely avatar - then slowly move to more and more advanced.

 

Best of luck to you my friend, and thanks for all the help.  

 

---

You're very welcome, and thank you, in return! Oh, and in checking the naming of your groups, check for things like capitalization/lowercase letters being used when it should be the opposite. Remember, those group names are case sensitive, when it comes to matching it to the SL avatar.

[Heb Dexler]

Just an idea. Are you selecting all the bones and the mesh together when you export to collada?

>> "SL.  "hips, neck, head, rForeArm..etc"

The exact joint names should be:

mPelvis        
mTorso         
mChest         
mNeck          
mHead          
mSkull         
mEyeRight      
mEyeLeft       

mCollarLeft    
mShoulderLeft  
mElbowLeft     
mWristLeft     

mCollarRight   
mShoulderRight 
mElbowRight    
mWristRight    

mHipRight      
mKneeRight     
mAnkleRight    
mFootRight     
mToeRight      

mHipLeft       
mKneeLeft      
mAnkleLeft     
mFootLeft      
mToeLeft     

[Sokoda Soulstar]

Yeah, these joint things are very... picky to say the very least.  I finally was able to export a Dae collada file, then upload it to SL as a rigged mesh.  But everything was all... twisted.  It looked kind of like one of those pictures, of something moving very fast and you see the blur on the ends. 

So I must have messed up on the naming again.  Thanks really though on this exact list of joint names.  I started by just using bvhackers (for animations of normal avatars) - where I just took the joints and renamed them. i.e. hips, rForeArm etc.  But I see that mesh has a different style than that.  

 

Thanks  

[Heb Dexler]

>>something moving very fast

That maybe rotation problem, up axis maybe.I dont use blender but in my app Z is up for export otherwise its all mangled in SL. Have you tried looking at the default skeleton. simplebot or avatar.blend? Gaia's has a copy here . Maybe dont move it around untill your uploading is all working as expected..

Good luck!

[Sokoda Soulstar]

I've tried to line up the axis's already, and as for using the default skeletons that's what I resorted too.  

I used the avatar.blend one first, which I mean looks really good. Moved the default avatar to another layer, imported my own, scaled it down to size and made it match up - kept going between the two layers to make sure it was the same porportion \ style.  Then deleted the default avatar, joined the default skeleton and readjusted it to my import.  

Set up and did a few tests of it in Blender, worked like a bloody charm.  Low deformations and everything, and managed to make everything function pretty decently.  But...that joy was short found lol.  I went to bring it up into SL and it was just a big old Nada.  Got to upload it, skin weight it, joint position it... but putting it on was the exact same result.  Blurred up mesh trail.  

Not to be too discouraged I tried it out with the simplebot straight from the wikia.  Same results.  Then I even tried just joining the simplebot itself inside of my imported mesh avatar - and linking the skeleton to that.  But again, same weird blur.

Perhaps you're right with the rotation, I'll keep messing around hoping I'm doing something wrong.  

Thanks for the help And I hope things go well for you too!

*I added two photos, the first shows the mesh being worn (on the right).  The Second shows the exact same mesh not being worn and by itself*

 Is there the possiblity that it can't be done as a whole avatar, but instead has to be done in seperate pieces?

 

[Relapse Gauntley]

Separate pieces is possible. I know I learned that lesson the hard way when doing armor and other stuff. Organic like things though are best left as one piece.

 

Rigging can be the best thing in the world or more headaches and problems then you can possibly imagine.

[Trix Braveheart]

Ashasekayi's series might help too. She goes through the bone names and extracting them from the avatar list. As well the rigging and as a bonus weight painting. Good luck

http://www.youtube.com/user/ashasekayi#g/c/11D6E99BB51A2BB2

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Thanks for posting my tutorial, Trix.

@Sokoda:

The series that Trix posted covers rigged mesh clothing in SL. However, it should get you through the process of skinning an avatar as well. It was developed for Blender 2.49. I'm working on updating the series for Blender 2.59.

Speaking of Blender versions, you mentioned Blender 2.57. That version won't export armatures correctly for SL. You need to get Blender 2.59 if you want to use a current generation Blender. (The old Blender 2.49 works as well.)

Also, are you on a Mac? I've heard a rumor that Mac users have had to use the complete 26 bones in the armature instead of just the essential 21 list of bones. I don't use a Mac, so I can't test this. In my experience on Windows (using either Blender 2.49 or 2.59), I have only needed to use the essential 21 list of bones. 

[Betty Doyle]

I'm on a mac using 2.59 and have only had to use the 21 bones.

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Ah cool. Thanks for clearing that up Betty.

[Sokoda Soulstar]

Thanks for all the help everyone

 

I finally got it to function right.  The 2.57 must have been the wrong set like Ashasekayi said. (Btw you have one hell of a name... awesome ) No, I wasn't on a Mac - good old W7 64bit.  

 

But yes, thanks again to everyone for all the help - the links are really useful and I hope to see you all in the future again.  Now that I understand what I did wrong, maybe I can help others too

 

If you don't mind Ashasekayi, I'll be posting your tutorial around.  

[Ashasekayi Ra]

No, I don't mind. Thanks

I'm glad that you got it working. I can't wait to see more mesh content out there. ^^

[Marymac Dougall]

As many times I have followed directions to the letter, I have not yet met with any success yet. Static meshes....fine. But even if I test a rigged one before I do any upload, it is working fine and showing ability to move with the limbs and showing all good signs with choosing skin weights, I will either get an error or it will upload without giving me a choice to pick skin weights or it just go wonky on me and I end up with a rigid piece of mesh. Sadly, I am almost totally lost using blender and have a problem following along with videos because of a mild handicap with understanding fast speech. If I could follow more carefully with a transcript, that would be a plus. Now, since I've used other 3d programs since DOS, I have not cared much for blender for me. I use Maya for now. Still the principles are the same, aren't they?